YTSEJAM Digest 7015 Today's Topics: 1) Some polytickal thoughts by "Paul W. Cashman" 2) re: more politics by "Dan Costello" 3) Re: embryonic massacre (sounds like a band name) by "Christopher Oates" 4) Re: embryonic massacre (sounds like a band name) by Eduardo Ojeda 5) All of the Political/Election Talk by "Matt Rose" 6) OK, All Done Now by Ryan P Skadberg 7) RE: abortion by "Pat Sullivan" 8) WDADU 15th anniversary by Doug Kearns 9) RE: What? DT?? by "Souter, Jan-Michael" 10) Re: WDADU 15th anniversary by Mike Shetzer 11) RE: WDADU 15th anniversary by "Souter, Jan-Michael" 12) Re: Threshold by Alexandra 13) SCENES Press Release by Alexandra 14) Re: Abortion by "Dr. Scott Mosher" 15) Re: Threshold by "Everonn" 16) Re: Threshold by Mike Shetzer 17) MD (prog) sale by Mike Shetzer ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 23:51:04 -0500 From: "Paul W. Cashman" To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Some polytickal thoughts Message-ID: > Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 23:20:37 -0500 > From: Michael Burstin > Subject: RE: Kerry and Bush > > You know, I haven't posted in a while, but wanted to present some > interesting facts and observations here. > > 1. If Bush is the one to protect us from terror, why is it that every > major terrorist target voted for Kerry, usually very strongly: New > York, Boston, Chicago, all of California, Philly, Washington DC. The > cities that are the clear targets voted, usually overwhelmingly, for > Kerry. Sure, some other "red" states have big cities, but nothing like > the "blue" states. Fallacious argument here, really; basically a "straw man" argument. It's more a matter of Democrats being concentrated in the cities, the black vote going -- as usual -- almost entirely to Kerry, etc. It had little to do with whether people perceived their area as a target per se. That being said, I -do- know two people who live in Atlanta (already a bombing target, although not by "terrorists of global reach") who normally vote Democratic who voted for Bush because they perceived he was the better choice to fight the threat of terrorism. > 2. The "Taxachusetts" Myth: After factoring in sales tax, local and > municipal income tax rates, property tax, etc, Massachusetts ranks 36th > nationwide for overall tax burden. > http://www.retirementliving.com/RLtaxburdens.html Be that as it may, I know two small business owners who moved their operations out of Massachusetts because of the tax and regulatory burden...in one case, the proprietor's wife was a Massachusetts native (and still sounds like one, bless her :)), and she hated to abandon her home state...but they felt they had to. Does your survey take regulatory burden on small business into account? > 3. Bush keeps on referring to "Massachusetts Liberals" as if they are > "evil". Umm, where would the country be w/o Massachusetts? I seem to > recall Massachusetts being one of the initial 13 colonies, Golly. That and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee at Waffle House. > the state > with Paul Revere's ride, Samuel Adams, the Boston Tea Party -- major > portions of American history took place because of "Massachusetts > Liberals" Those with progressive minds to bring the nation forward (and > into existence). --And those who took their own initiative and took matters into their own hands. Those with a strong sense of personal responsibility. In short, very far from the Democratic ideal of "Relax and let the government provide for YOU." Frankly, I think the idea of Earned Income Tax Credit would give them the heebeejeebies. > Oh, one more, not _L_Y_I_N_G_ about every issue. Don't get started on the topic of lying; both sides are guilty of it, as a look at factcheck.org will prove. Love that site. Seemed like the Democrats -- as has become customary -- were telling some whoppers this time around. "The rich pay less taxes than you do." "Bush wants to throw you out on the street." "Bush wants to take away your Social Security." Both sides were guilty of invoking fear; at least in the case of terrorist attacks, the threat is --sadly -- quite real...as quite a few moms in Chechnya discovered to their sorrow. -- +----------- Paul W. Cashman www.paulcashman.com ----------+ | email: email_address_removed | | "direct" site address: http://66.193.230.227/~paulcas/ | +---------------------------------------------------------------+ ---YTSEJAM-FILTER: This message was posted using the YML command ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 00:03:00 -0500 From: "Dan Costello" To: Subject: re: more politics Message-ID: >Anyway, as I said above, a "conglomeration" of human cells is vitally >different from a "human" in that it lacks that which we use to help define >what being human IS: We have brains and hearts and fingers and toes and eyes >and... well, you get the point. Without those things, you can't be any more >human than a dog is (even though, uh, they have all those things). It >doesn't matter what the cells are made of. I guess you'd have to say that >it really boils down to a "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" >kinda deal? I see your point, but I think it's an issue of seeing a human being at a certain stage of development. We're used to seeing humans after they've grown fingers, toes, etc. Humans at the 8th week of gestation look like a tiny blob. >(Just wanted to point out that the YML blocked me the first time I tried to >send it because I had the phrase "l1m1t3d t1m3" up there. LOL!) Yeah, I always get caught when I reply in digest mode. The subject line is "RE: Ytsejam #xxxx", which the filter rejects. UPDATE: LOL, the filters just bounced this message back to me, because it contained the "limit3d tim3" phrase in the body of the text, not just the subject. >1. If Bush is the one to protect us from terror, why is it that every >major terrorist target voted for Kerry, usually very strongly: New >York, Boston, Chicago, all of California, Philly, Washington DC. The >cities that are the clear targets voted, usually overwhelmingly, for >Kerry. Sure, some other "red" states have big cities, but nothing like >the "blue" states. You're developing an incorrect causality. One does not cause the other, rather, both are results of something else. Urban areas tend to vote democratic - I don't know why that is; I've heard it's at least partly because dense population centers require the greater level of government intervention espoused by Democrats. That may or may not be true. Also, because of their population density, urban areas pose more tempting targets for terrorists, because they can get more bang for their buck (pun intended). Regarding protection from terror and Bush vs Kerry: First, I have a big problem with a lot of the Patriot Act, so I'm hardly gung-ho Bush on this one. However, when dealing with military matters, it's vital to be firm and resolute in your decisions and convictions. I don't see Kerry doing that. Yeah, everybody tosses around the phrase "flip-flop." IMO, it's way overused, but there is some element of truth to it. I don't necessarily know if Kerry has actually waffled on a lot of issues, but his political statements have certainly been all over the place. (the one that sticks in my mind is first accusing Bush of planning an October surprise of cutting a deal with the Saudis to lower gas prices, but then a couple months later, accusing Bush of going to war to allow his oil buddies to jack up prices and make a bigger profit at the expense of the American public) By presenting himself as the Un-Bush, he avoided making a firm platform and instead made whatever statements were politically expedient at the time. THAT right there is why I don't think he'd be a good military leader. During peace, you've got a bit more leeway in terms of appeasing various groups of people, but you can't be wishy-washy in war. >3. Bush keeps on referring to "Massachusetts Liberals" as if they are >"evil". Umm, where would the country be w/o Massachusetts? I seem to >recall Massachusetts being one of the initial 13 colonies, the state >with Paul Revere's ride, Samuel Adams, the Boston Tea Party -- major >portions of American history took place because of "Massachusetts >Liberals" Those with progressive minds to bring the nation forward (and >into existence). The country would still exist without Texas, but it >was strongly because of Massachusetts (and the other "blue" states) that >this nation exists. He wants to reach out and re-unite the country >while continuously attacking us. I won't make any comments regarding Bush's statements, but regarding yours - I think it's pretty easy to see that he wasn't talking about 18th century Massachusetts; he was talking about Massachusetts today. >5. The "uniting" issue for the voters was fear and hatred. I think that can be said of both sides, probably moreso of some Democrats. While I don't see much love for gay marriage coming from Republicans, I also don't see much of that vitriolic hatred that seems to be fairly commonly felt for Bush. Michael Moore and MoveOn.org are much more mainstream than Fred "God Hates Fags" Phelps and the rest of his ilk. >http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/2/0145/25068 >PRESIDENT Bush and Vice President Cheney make reference to >"Massachusetts liberals" as if they were referring to people with some >kind of disease. I decided it was time to do some research on these >people, and here is what I found. > >The state with the lowest divorce rate in the nation is Massachusetts. >At latest count it had a divorce rate of 2.4 per 1,000 population, while >the rate for Texas was 4.1. > >But don't take the US government's word for it. Take a look at the >findings from the George Barna Research Group. George Barna, a >born-again Christian whose company is in Ventura, Calif., found that >Massachusetts does indeed have the lowest divorce rate among all 50 >states. More disturbing was the finding that born-again Christians have >among the highest divorce rates. > >The Associated Press, using data supplied by the US Census Bureau, found >that the highest divorce rates are to be found in the Bible Belt. The AP >report stated that "the divorce rates in these conservative states are >roughly 50 percent above the national average of 4.2 per thousand people." Thanks for that info. That's sad, but interesting. :-( -Dan. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 00:17:03 -0500 From: "Christopher Oates" To: Subject: Re: embryonic massacre (sounds like a band name) Message-ID: >Well, in a way, yes, you're right: They are HUMAN cells. But the fact >remains that a HUMAN BEING is made up of more than just a few cells. Scientifically, early embryos have more in common with a blood sample than they do a fully formed human being. Hm. I certainly hope that they don't try to outlaw bleeding some day since it's technically killing human cells. ~Chris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 09:56:21 -0300 From: Eduardo Ojeda To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: embryonic massacre (sounds like a band name) Message-ID: > Scientifically, early embryos have more in common with a blood sample > than > they do a fully formed human being. Hm. I certainly hope that they > don't > try to outlaw bleeding some day since it's technically killing human > cells. The way I see it, it's not important whether a bunch of cells bears any resemblance to a full grown human. What is important is that, given time, that bunch of cells WILL become a human beign. That's why abortion is so wrong, it denies this "proto-human" it's right to have a shot at life too. Another thing I'm sickened by is the whole "women's right to chose" crap. I am totally pro-rights, but I don't see how denying other's of their rights is "freedom". If I recall correctly, "Your rights end where the next guy's/gal's rights begin" (or however you say it in English). By killing the buncho'o'cells/embryo/little baby/future human, your are denying it's right to live! Women should have the responsability of taking care of NOT getting pregnant, instead of fighting for the right to cover up their mistakes by murder. And don't bring up the rape thing. It's, IMHO, a stupid argument. - Edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 09:05:03 -0600 From: "Matt Rose" To: Subject: All of the Political/Election Talk Message-ID: <005601c4c5a4$58308620$0200a8c0@computer> It's been interesting to read all of the anti-Bush/anti-Kerry talk over the past week. It's a shame that it takes a highly divisive topic like 'politics' to get the jam going again, rather than a topic like...oh, I don't know...'music'. The fact is, if you voted for Bush, Kerry, Nader, Cthulhu, whoever...you had your reasons for doing so that probably seemed valid, at least at the time. At least you voted. If your candidate won, you're probably happy. If your candidate lost, you're unhappy, but you're stuck with the candidate who won and you have to deal with it. Me, I had no candidate to vote for. I agreed with some aspects of both Kerry's and Bush's platforms, but I was (for the most part) opposed to the vast majority of what they both stood for. Like most of the people that I personally know, I had to weigh what I was for the MOST and make my decision on who to vote for based upon that. No matter who you voted for, Bush is president. A lot can happen in 4 years...let's hope that he makes more right decisions than wrong ones and is able to find a middle ground on things, because I don't want a Republican fanatical theocracy (and I don't want a Democratic socialistic commune either). I want an America that provides a balance between the two extremes that we were offered. We weren't offered that this election by the two major parties, but to vote for an independent was, I felt, a wasted vote. I respect those who voted independent, though, but they based their vote on an ideal instead of reality. Realistically, either Bush or Kerry was going to win. If you didn't vote, you're probably regretting that decision now. Let's hope that we're all given candidates that we can REALLY get behind in 4 years, Republican and Democrat. Me, I'd like to see a McCain/Powell ticket on the Republican side. I'm not as sure of what I'd like to see on the Democrat side. As far as independents go, I respect Nader and agree with a lot of what he has to say, but he has the personal charisma of a soggy Chinese dinner...he needs to find a frontman for his politics that he can sell and promote and have fight on the world stage. Let's all work together to make America a better place, Republican, Democrat, Independent, whatever. I can respect the need to vent/rant, but it's been done now and everyone is just repeating the same complaints on both sides of the issue. Sorry, I had to get that off of my chest. This is a music forum, and I enjoy reading what you guys have to say. I don't contribute very regularly, but I enjoy reading and discovering new bands on here. Without this forum, I wouldn't have discovered Pain of Salvation, Andromeda, Superior, and other bands. Dream Theater is still my fav ('Awake' rarely leaves my cd changer), but it's great to have had my ears opened to a more worldly prog music scene. And now...back into lurk mode. ---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 23:38:09 -0500 From: Ryan P Skadberg To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: OK, All Done Now Message-ID: Though I have enjoyed there actually being traffic on the list lately, take the politics offlist. Danke, Skadz Ytsejam Moderator -- Ryan P Skadberg The Dream Theater Information Network ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 11:57:09 -0500 From: "Pat Sullivan" To: Subject: RE: abortion Message-ID: > Anyway, as I said above, a "conglomeration" of human cells is > vitally different from a "human" in that it lacks that which > we use to help define what being human IS: We have brains and > hearts and fingers and toes and eyes and... well, you get the > point. Without those things, you can't be any more human > than a dog is (even though, uh, they have all those things). Uhh... I realize that you can't *live* without a heart or brain, but I've known plenty of people that were missing eyes, toes or fingers, and They are still considered "human", right? > It doesn't matter what the cells are made of. I guess you'd > have to say that it really boils down to a "the whole is > greater than the sum of its parts" > kinda deal? I guess it depends on which "parts", and how "whole". ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 04:30:59 +1100 From: Doug Kearns To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: WDADU 15th anniversary Message-ID: Hello all, Has anyone heard if there is a recording of this concert floating around; a potential YTSEJAM Records release or similar? Regards, Doug ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 12:19:26 -0600 From: "Souter, Jan-Michael" To: "'ytsejam@torchsong.com'" Subject: RE: What? DT?? Message-ID: Rick - I'm right there with you, being a fan of Falling Into Infinity. yeah I used to rag Derek Sherinian, but overall it is a great album. JM -----Original Message----- From: Rick Audet [mailto:email_address_removed I haven't listened to FII in a while, but I've always enjoyed that one ever since its release. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who likes that album (as well as all the others). Glad I'm not the only one. But for now I think I'll give ToT another spin! I'm itching for the next Freak Kitchen record, too. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 13:36:23 -0500 From: Mike Shetzer To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: WDADU 15th anniversary Message-ID: <000b01c4c5c1$d9626200$9b00a8c0@mizz> I haven't heard anything, but I would definitely imagine that it WILL be released officially. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Kearns" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 12:22 PM Subject: WDADU 15th anniversary > Hello all, > > Has anyone heard if there is a recording of this concert floating > around; a potential YTSEJAM Records release or similar? > > Regards, > Doug > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 12:52:00 -0600 From: "Souter, Jan-Michael" To: "'ytsejam@torchsong.com'" Subject: RE: WDADU 15th anniversary Message-ID: In the latest DT fanclub magazine, Mike reported that show WILL be out on Ytsejam Records in the near future. So hang tight for a good quality recording, and not some noisy audience boot. Initially I was kinda disappointed that the new DVD and CDs that came out were NOT of that show.... But I went ahead and got the CDs to check it out, and was blown away by the show....... So now I will be getting the Budokan DVD as well :) -----Original Message----- From: Mike Shetzer [mailto:email_address_removed I haven't heard anything, but I would definitely imagine that it WILL be released officially. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Kearns" > Hello all, > > Has anyone heard if there is a recording of this concert floating around; a potential YTSEJAM Records release or similar? > > Regards, > Doug > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 15:24:46 -0800 (PST) From: Alexandra To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Threshold Message-ID: >> Anyone a fan of Thresh? I just got around to listening to their newest Subsurface. I must say I'm unimpressed. Their last two albums before Subsurface really grew on me, and lots of their melodies were sweet and catchy enough that I could remember them later. A few listens into Subsurface and I didn't hear anything substantial or remember-able. I'll give it a few more spins, but I'm a bit disappointed initially. >> I'm a fan.. Yes, I did like this album quite a bit actually. The one before it, Critical Mass, didn't really do jack for me. It sounded so stale & rehashed. For some reason, this one really struck the right chord (pun intended), heh heh. :) Not as rocking as Hypothetical, but still pretty damn good, IMO. Alex ==== "Living in NJ is a necessary, but not sufficient, cause of becoming violently ill" -survey methods student www.Scenes.de __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 15:38:38 -0800 (PST) From: Alexandra To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: SCENES Press Release Message-ID: I finally feel justified for having these guys in my sig since forever :) -I realize that one of the concert dates already happened, just don't feel like messing with the release. Can send a tracklisting too, if anyone's interested. This CD really rocks, I would recommend it - heavy & rocking. I will let you all know when soudclips go up. This is my cousin's band, and this project has been partially my own as well (though the Alex mentioned is the singer, and not me!), so if anyone checks it out feel free to send me some feedback (offlist if you prefer). I'd love to hear what you think. Thanks! Alex ---- Press release: Scenes & Escapi It's now official: With new management and the album newly mixed and mastered by Tommy Newton, we have signed a new contract for 2 albums with the swedish label ESCAPI New Media (www.escapi.com ). The existing contract with Generation Records was dissolved. We would like to sincerely thank Eddy Freiberger of Generation, who always believed in the band and stood by us. He laid no obstacles in our path and instead supported us on our way forward. We are also very proud that the CD promotion will be handled by Birgitt Schwanke from GERMUSICA Promotion. With GERMUSICA and ESCAPI we have found a team of which we are totally confident. Call Us At The Number You Provide! Worldwide Release: Our new album is named Call Us At the Number You Provide, and will be available in stores on January 24, 2005 (we can hardly wait). Concert Dates: 11/6/04 Leonberg Bassbox with Liquid Horizon, 7of9 11/9/04 Ludwigsburg Rockfabrik with Liquid Horizon, Ivorie, Kaminari Directions can be found at www.bassbox.de or www.rockfabrik.rocks.de We are looking forward to our first shows with Alex!!! Cheers, Alex, Chris, Florian, Henne, Jan www.scenes.de ==== "Living in NJ is a necessary, but not sufficient, cause of becoming violently ill" -survey methods student www.Scenes.de __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 18:41:16 -0800 From: "Dr. Scott Mosher" To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Abortion Message-ID: An amalgamation of cells without brain function is really "vegetative" though, right? I guess that's one of the pro-choice arguments. Your friendly neighborhood allroundniceguy Scott Mosher | http://www.theambientmind.com/inferno Inferno at CD Baby: http://www.cdbaby.com/all/scottmosher ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 18:50:01 -0500 From: "Everonn" To: Subject: Re: Threshold Message-ID: <001801c4c5ed$a9bfb210$message_id_removed> > Not as rocking as Hypothetical, but still pretty damn > good, IMO. Weird. I started with Hypothetical and really like it. I liked Critical Mass even more. Subsurface is my favorite so far. - Chris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 19:15:42 -0500 From: Mike Shetzer To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Threshold Message-ID: <001601c4c5f1$401dedf0$9b00a8c0@mizz> I'll have to agree with the last part at least ;) Hypothetical is by far my fave by them. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexandra" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 6:25 PM Subject: Re: Threshold > >> > Anyone a fan of Thresh? > I just got around to listening to their newest > Subsurface. I must say I'm unimpressed. Their last two > albums before Subsurface really grew on me, and lots > of their melodies were sweet and catchy enough that I > could remember them later. A few listens into > Subsurface and I didn't hear anything substantial or > remember-able. I'll give it a few more spins, > but I'm a bit disappointed initially. > >> > > I'm a fan.. > Yes, I did like this album quite a bit actually. The > one before it, Critical Mass, didn't really do jack > for me. It sounded so stale & rehashed. For some > reason, this one really struck the right chord (pun > intended), heh heh. :) > > Not as rocking as Hypothetical, but still pretty damn > good, IMO. > > Alex > > === > "Living in NJ is a necessary, but not sufficient, cause of becoming violently ill" > -survey methods student > > > www.Scenes.de > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. > www.yahoo.com > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 21:11:13 -0500 From: Mike Shetzer To: email_address_removed, Erpnotes , Subject: MD (prog) sale Message-ID: <004201c4c601$6320fdf0$9b00a8c0@mizz> --Boundary_(ID_IJ3kbhat+f7zCaq3UcZVeA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT if anyone's interested, I'm selling 90% of the minidiscs I own (I think I overbought, thinking naively that I'd be able to condense all or most of my collection to this format!). That's about 20 MD's, and all of them at the moment have a bunch of prog stuff on them. None of them too obscure though, mostly collections of albums like King Crimson, The Flower Kings, Dream Theater, Arena, Symphony X, Ozric Tentacles, Spock's Beard, Devin Townsend. I think a few them are more varietized (if memory serves me right there are one with pure instrumentals, one of "soft" prog, one of metal, etc). Here's the URL, feel free to bid and mention me to get a lil discount or gift! ;) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5137869228&ssPageName=ADME:B:LC:US:1 --Boundary_(ID_IJ3kbhat+f7zCaq3UcZVeA) ---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 7015 ************************** === Contributions to ytsejam: ytsejam@torchsong.com === === Send requests to: ytsejam-request@torchsong.com === === More information at: http://www.dreamt.org/local/ytsejam.php === === Brought by the ghost of ytsejam@arastar.coms past === === Reach the owner of this list at: ytsejam-owner@torchsong.com ===