YTSEJAM Digest 7014 Today's Topics: 1) RE: abortion by "Dan Costello" 2) RE: abortion by "Andrew Coutermarsh" 3) RE: Kerry and Bush by Michael Burstin 4) threshold by Mike Shetzer ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 22:52:28 -0500 From: "Dan Costello" To: Subject: RE: abortion Message-ID: >But scientific method proves that a human embryo is NOT a human life, but merely >a conglomeration of cells. I realize you're just stating positions, not arguing for them, but I gotta say that you're wrong on that one. Maybe I don't quite understand your distinction between "life" and "conglomeration." To me, it seems that this conglomeration is alive (it consumes fuel and grows) and that it can't be anything other than human (made from 2 human zygotes, develops into full-grown human in ~18 years, it can't switch species in between). -Dan. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 23:18:20 -0500 From: "Andrew Coutermarsh" To: Subject: RE: abortion Message-ID: > From: Dan Costello > Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 10:37 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: RE: abortion > > > But scientific method proves that a human embryo is NOT a human life, > > but merely a conglomeration of cells. > > I realize you're just stating positions, not arguing for them, but I gotta > say that you're wrong on that one. > > Maybe I don't quite understand your distinction between "life" and > "conglomeration." To me, it seems that this conglomeration is alive (it > consumes fuel and grows) and that it can't be anything other than human > (made from 2 human zygotes, develops into full-grown human in ~18 years, > it can't switch species in between). Well, in a way, yes, you're right: They are HUMAN cells. But the fact remains that a HUMAN BEING is made up of more than just a few cells. It stands to reason that a human is made up of several different organs, which create systems, which enable a human to live. While the cells are technically living, a human cell is capable of living outside the host, but only for a limited time. It needs the complete SYSTEM in order to sustain its life. We'll ignore the fact that a cell only lives about 120 days in the first place. :) Anyway, as I said above, a "conglomeration" of human cells is vitally different from a "human" in that it lacks that which we use to help define what being human IS: We have brains and hearts and fingers and toes and eyes and... well, you get the point. Without those things, you can't be any more human than a dog is (even though, uh, they have all those things). It doesn't matter what the cells are made of. I guess you'd have to say that it really boils down to a "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" kinda deal? Pfft, I dunno. It's always been a really wishy-washy subject for me ("oh my God! He's flip-flopping!"). I can't figure out what I want to believe. (Just wanted to point out that the YML blocked me the first time I tried to send it because I had the phrase "limited time" up there. LOL!) Andrew Coutermarsh http://www.acvox.com/ andrew at acvox dot com ---YTSEJAM-FILTER: This message was posted using the YML command ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 23:20:37 -0500 From: Michael Burstin To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: RE: Kerry and Bush Message-ID: You know, I haven't posted in a while, but wanted to present some interesting facts and observations here. 1. If Bush is the one to protect us from terror, why is it that every major terrorist target voted for Kerry, usually very strongly: New York, Boston, Chicago, all of California, Philly, Washington DC. The cities that are the clear targets voted, usually overwhelmingly, for Kerry. Sure, some other "red" states have big cities, but nothing like the "blue" states. 2. The "Taxachusetts" Myth: After factoring in sales tax, local and municipal income tax rates, property tax, etc, Massachusetts ranks 36th nationwide for overall tax burden. http://www.retirementliving.com/RLtaxburdens.html 3. Bush keeps on referring to "Massachusetts Liberals" as if they are "evil". Umm, where would the country be w/o Massachusetts? I seem to recall Massachusetts being one of the initial 13 colonies, the state with Paul Revere's ride, Samuel Adams, the Boston Tea Party -- major portions of American history took place because of "Massachusetts Liberals" Those with progressive minds to bring the nation forward (and into existence). The country would still exist without Texas, but it was strongly because of Massachusetts (and the other "blue" states) that this nation exists. He wants to reach out and re-unite the country while continuously attacking us. 4. "Values" Last time I looked, values included things like helping the poor, feeding the hungry, helping the sick and elderly. People who do not go to church have values and morals. Oh, one more, not _L_Y_I_N_G_ about every issue. Lets look at what happened after the debate, with something like the "global test". If you actually listened to the hundred or so words before Kerry said Global Test, you will realize that he said without question that the US would not surrender its will to the rest of the world, and that the "global test" was the test that the actions are explainable to your own people and the rest of the world, and not some egotistical power trip. These are some of the biggest and easily deniable lies, and were constant "talking points" of the Bush media machine. 5. The "uniting" issue for the voters was fear and hatred. Look at what happened, 11 states voted to add discrimination to their state constitutions. Massachusetts has had gay marriage for almost 6 months now. The world in Massachusetts has not ended. It is about the same here as it was last year, with the exception of a few more married couples. In fact, some interesting statistics relating to the protection of "family values": http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/2/0145/25068 PRESIDENT Bush and Vice President Cheney make reference to "Massachusetts liberals" as if they were referring to people with some kind of disease. I decided it was time to do some research on these people, and here is what I found. The state with the lowest divorce rate in the nation is Massachusetts. At latest count it had a divorce rate of 2.4 per 1,000 population, while the rate for Texas was 4.1. But don't take the US government's word for it. Take a look at the findings from the George Barna Research Group. George Barna, a born-again Christian whose company is in Ventura, Calif., found that Massachusetts does indeed have the lowest divorce rate among all 50 states. More disturbing was the finding that born-again Christians have among the highest divorce rates. The Associated Press, using data supplied by the US Census Bureau, found that the highest divorce rates are to be found in the Bible Belt. The AP report stated that "the divorce rates in these conservative states are roughly 50 percent above the national average of 4.2 per thousand people." ------and--------- http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm Barna's results verified findings of earlier polls: that conservative Protestant Christians, on average, have the highest divorce rate, while mainline Christians have a much lower rate. They found some new information as well: that atheists and agnostics have the lowest divorce rate of all. Anyway, thats my view of things. Massachusetts Liberal, and damn proud of it! Michael Burstin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 20:09:44 -0500 From: Mike Shetzer To: progressivemusicsociety@yahoogroups.com, Ytsejam Subject: threshold Message-ID: <000a01c4c52f$a1d82b90$9b00a8c0@mizz> --Boundary_(ID_3DKAwO9qPWM+J6YOI+jreg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Anyone a fan of Thresh? I just got around to listening to their newest Subsurface. I must say I'm unimpressed. Their last two albums before Subsurface really grew on me, and lots of their melodies were sweet and catchy enough that I could remember them later. A few listens into Subsurface and I didn't hear anything substantial or remember-able. I'll give it a few more spins, but I'm a bit disappointed initially. --Boundary_(ID_3DKAwO9qPWM+J6YOI+jreg) ---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 7014 ************************** === Contributions to ytsejam: ytsejam@torchsong.com === === Send requests to: ytsejam-request@torchsong.com === === More information at: http://www.dreamt.org/local/ytsejam.php === === Brought by the ghost of ytsejam@arastar.coms past === === Reach the owner of this list at: ytsejam-owner@torchsong.com ===