YTSEJAM Digest 6944 Today's Topics: 1) Re: Am I too Prog? by "jimmckenzie" 2) Re: Am I too Prog? by Brian Hayden 3) Re: Am I too Prog? by Mike Shetzer 4) Re: Am I too Prog? by "Ivan Navarro" 5) too prog? by "Dan Costello" 6) Re: Am I too Prog? by xcitor 7) you're never too prog by "Robert B. Wells" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 18:15:15 -0400 From: "jimmckenzie" To: Subject: Re: Am I too Prog? Message-ID: <004801c48183$02cec260$1ffb1743@yourxhtr8hvc4p> Quit the frikkin' band before you hurt your reputation as a musician. If your technically "better" them that's not "your" problem. It's their's. Theywanted you in the band because it looked neat to have a "Wunderkind" on drums and now your matured beyond novelty status. If they can't mature too (and obviously they are having trouble) then you are better off without them. Don't start on about "I gotta do what's best for the band", do what's best for you. Leaving on good terms will also sound better than being frozen out and then dropped like a hot spud. Hope this helps. T H A N K Y O U James R. McKenzie email_address_removed > > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:17:40 EDT > From: email_address_removed > To: ytsejam@torchsong.com > Subject: Am I too Prog? > Message-ID: > > > -------------------------------1092363460 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > I'm in a non-prog band with two people who are into bands like Blink 182 > (ewww). I can tell they are getting tired of me. I write everything very Prog > (drum parts, lyrics, everything). My drum set is huge (Like any other Prog drummer > we have here in this mailing list). > > They are starting to complain about my drumset and the way I go about > everything, even though they asked me to join because all the above mentioned things > where there. They thought I was the best 17 year old drummer in Grand Prairie, > Texas and for a little while they liked it. But now they hate the fact it > takes 20 min to set up my kit during a gig (Working really fast and with 5 people > helping me) and they hate the fact that they are forced to help me because > its so big. They hate that I'm too complicated in my drumming parts which do go > with the song but its not what a "typical drummer" would do. We argueed about > 4 hours about everything and I seriously think if I don't change they will > fire me. > > All your drummers help me out here, what should I do? > > Art > > -------------------------------1092363460 > ---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment > > ------------------------------ > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 18:04:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Brian Hayden To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Am I too Prog? Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Aug 2004, jimmckenzie wrote: > Quit the frikkin' band before you hurt your reputation as a musician. If > your technically "better" them that's not "your" problem. It's their's. > Theywanted you in the band because it looked neat to have a "Wunderkind" on > drums and now your matured beyond novelty status. If they can't mature too > (and obviously they are having trouble) then you are better off without > them. Well, congratulations on being an asshole sir! Who says they need to "mature"? Do you know anything about this band? What they sound like? Anyone who doesn't play prog is immature? Personally, I'd say people who never get over playing scales and imitating Dream Theater are immature, but hey, what do I know? There are some songs that simply don't need a polyrhythmic double bass/tom line. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, and one isn't more "mature" than the other (talk to Beethoven about whether increasing the flurry of notes is a sign of maturity); it's your personal preference. Grow up, sir. To the original poster: if you don't want to play the music they want to play, then politely bow out and go find yourself some compadres who share your vision. Rock on. :) -Brian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 19:43:32 -0400 From: Mike Shetzer To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Am I too Prog? Message-ID: <000e01c4818f$58119430$9b00a8c0@mizz> --Boundary_(ID_Zi4vsKVofmEepikDKmoHow) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I think this makes sense too. Do you like the direction the band is heading? Do they play "your type of music"? If no and no, then the answer is obvious... If you do enjoy playing with them enough to want to stay and keep your proggism, you may just have to compromise. ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Hayden To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 7:23 PM Subject: Re: Am I too Prog? On Fri, 13 Aug 2004, jimmckenzie wrote: > Quit the frikkin' band before you hurt your reputation as a musician. If > your technically "better" them that's not "your" problem. It's their's. > Theywanted you in the band because it looked neat to have a "Wunderkind" on > drums and now your matured beyond novelty status. If they can't mature too > (and obviously they are having trouble) then you are better off without > them. Well, congratulations on being an asshole sir! Who says they need to "mature"? Do you know anything about this band? What they sound like? Anyone who doesn't play prog is immature? Personally, I'd say people who never get over playing scales and imitating Dream Theater are immature, but hey, what do I know? There are some songs that simply don't need a polyrhythmic double bass/tom line. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, and one isn't more "mature" than the other (talk to Beethoven about whether increasing the flurry of notes is a sign of maturity); it's your personal preference. Grow up, sir. To the original poster: if you don't want to play the music they want to play, then politely bow out and go find yourself some compadres who share your vision. Rock on. :) -Brian --Boundary_(ID_Zi4vsKVofmEepikDKmoHow) ---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 21:08:12 -0400 From: "Ivan Navarro" To: Subject: Re: Am I too Prog? Message-ID: <000801c4819b$2cef49d0$8eb40642@ivansmtyz9ixwb> > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:17:40 EDT > From: email_address_removed > To: ytsejam@torchsong.com > Subject: Am I too Prog? > Message-ID: > > > -------------------------------1092363460 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > I'm in a non-prog band with two people who are into bands like Blink 182 > (ewww). I can tell they are getting tired of me. I write everything very Prog > (drum parts, lyrics, everything). My drum set is huge (Like any other Prog drummer > we have here in this mailing list). > > They are starting to complain about my drumset and the way I go about > everything, even though they asked me to join because all the above mentioned things > where there. They thought I was the best 17 year old drummer in Grand Prairie, > Texas and for a little while they liked it. But now they hate the fact it > takes 20 min to set up my kit during a gig (Working really fast and with 5 people > helping me) and they hate the fact that they are forced to help me because > its so big. They hate that I'm too complicated in my drumming parts which do go > with the song but its not what a "typical drummer" would do. We argueed about > 4 hours about everything and I seriously think if I don't change they will > fire me. > > All your drummers help me out here, what should I do? > > Art Art, I would have to say-- too prog. Sorry. But cheer up! I usually don't post, but as luck would have it, today YOU are going to get the benefit of my vast wisdom! It's like this: The band/act can be a supporting cast to an omnipotent leader (the guy paying all the bills), or a collaboration of two or more members (songwriters) with supporting cast members as necessary. If you're in a group that's supposed to be working together, than you've got to stay within the boundries of the group's ideology. If the majority of the band think you're overplaying, AND they have to throw their backs out to HELP YA DO IT, ah yeah, I think your days are numbered. ;) If you are the band leader, then it's your band, and you play with as big a kit as you want (ala M.P)! - but for cripes sake, don't ask the band to deal with it! Get some drum techs! (read: your friends to help with the kit). In the absence of techs, everybody's got to at least be responsible for their own gear. If you want to bring the Siamese Monster, you deal with it! Heck! You're 17 now?..., after a few years of a big kit, you'll be down to a 5 piece in no time! ;) Basically, to me, this sounds like a bad fit. Find some prog guys that'll let you go wild! (Besides, prog bands don't get gigs anyway, so you won't have to worry about setting up and breaking down! ;) lol If you like the band, and want to stay in it, you need to make people happy with your contribution. Otherwise, you aren't contributing anything positive and it's doomed to fail. I would scale down the kit, and play more like what they want. Take it as an opportunity to develop your foot work and play innovative, yet solid beats in the pocket At the same time, look for other, more prog loving musicians to play with. Who knows you might like playing rock! Most importantly, don't quit your current job until you have the next one lined up. (That goes for all jobs, btw) That's my advice, since you were asking. Sincerely, Shameless guitar player, who still foolishly believes he can influence the mental gymnastics going on in a drummer's head! P.S. Seriously, good luck. Band relationships and musical chemistry are the hardest parts. When they're working, magic happens! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 00:11:35 -0400 From: "Dan Costello" To: Subject: too prog? Message-ID: >They are starting to complain about my drumset and the way I go about >everything, even though they asked me to join because all the above mentioned things >where there. They thought I was the best 17 year old drummer in Grand Prairie, >Texas and for a little while they liked it. But now they hate the fact it >takes 20 min to set up my kit during a gig (Working really fast and with 5 people >helping me) and they hate the fact that they are forced to help me because >its so big. They hate that I'm too complicated in my drumming parts which do go >with the song but its not what a "typical drummer" would do. We argueed about >4 hours about everything and I seriously think if I don't change they will >fire me. I've been where you are, sort of. Not as a drummer anyways, but as a music fan. You think prog is the shiznit and that it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. You'll grow out of it eventually; I did. I still love prog, but I can appreciate other things a lot more now that I'm not so hung up on weedly-weedly guitar playing and gigantic drum solos. Regarding your drumming - do what best fits the music. If you guys are playing stuff that's closer to Blink 182 than it is to DT, then bring a smaller kit. I love cool drum fills, but as a soundguy, I'll tell you that for certain styles of music, large drum kits are totally unnecessary. I had a guy in a mediocre party-tune cover band last week bring a 7 piece kit, which was not appropriate for the style of music, style of playing, or the size of the venue. There is such a thing as over-playing, too. The drummer at my church tries to throw in all these ridiculous fills that would work if he were playing classic rock, but he's doing contemporary church music. (plus, he does them very poorly, but that's besides the point) Yeah, these guys may want to simplify things too much, but there should be a happy medium somewhere. -Dan. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 02:15:45 -0400 From: xcitor To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Am I too Prog? Message-ID: Quoting on <2004-08-12 - 19:38>: > All your drummers help me out here, what should I do? well, i'm not a drummer, but a prog fan. you need to think about where you want to take your drumming professionally. do you want to play professionally? if so, and you want to have prog foo, then now is the time to be creative. you're young .. you probably have wild imagination (if you smoked half as much pot as i did at 17, i'm sure you have a *great* imagination ha ha). therefore, one thing to consider IMHO, is if you stay in the band will you still have time to practice _your_ craft on the side? if not, think hard about continuing. you might become jaded. but if you think you can fine time on your own to practice, it might be a good idea to play in the band -- even if you not showing off your mad skillz. remember, MP said in an interview once (paraphrasing) ``you can have all the chops you want, but if you can't play in time is a band or metronome, then you ain't shit...'' so you will benefit in some ways from playing with the band .. especially if y'all get gigs. FWIW. -- email_address_removed SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 02:09:26 -0500 From: "Robert B. Wells" To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: you're never too prog Message-ID: Hello, Art, I say leave them behind and come join us in Austin. We're looking for a drummer. I'm just kidding. I don't really have any good advice. I'm a bass player. If I had any sense, I'd be playing guitar and getting all the ladies instead of just the effeminate roadies from other bands. Good luck, and never give in to the vacuous sirens of pop. Are they really going to find another drummer in Grand Prairie, anyway? -- Robert B. Wells email_address_removed that which does not kill us only serves to make us stranger ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 6944 ************************** === Contributions to ytsejam: ytsejam@torchsong.com === === Send requests to: ytsejam-request@torchsong.com === === More information at: http://www.dreamt.org/local/ytsejam.php === === Brought by the ghost of ytsejam@arastar.coms past === === Reach the owner of this list at: ytsejam-owner@torchsong.com ===