YTSEJAM Digest 6860 Today's Topics: 1) RE: death metal...and ANTHRAX by "Niall Connaughton" 2) RE: mammeries of the way they used to be by "Niall Connaughton" 3) DT summer touring plans by xcitor 4) Bahr by "Zachary Gemmill" 5) Re: Death and progression by Dave Peterson 6) CoB by "Trevor Hoit" 7) Re: Death and progression by Mike Shetzer 8) RE: new dream theater DVD by "Souter, Jan-Michael" 9) RE: new dream theater DVD by "Souter, Jan-Michael" 10) Re: Death and progression by WB Henderson 11) DT in Seoul by Graham Borland ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:25:00 +1000 From: "Niall Connaughton" To: Subject: RE: death metal...and ANTHRAX Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: ytsejam@torchsong.com [mailto:ytsejam@torchsong.com]On Behalf Of > Karyn Hamilton > Sent: Tuesday, 27 April 2004 3:47 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: RE: death metal...and ANTHRAX > > > *giggles hysterically* nice one Niall, you made me spill my tea > laughing at > that. :-P > I try my best! :P > Soilwork were co-headlining, but to be honest, I'd much rather listen to > their album - they just don't seem to be able to translate their > excellence > into a live show. Niallo, I reckon you'd dig Soilwork; remind me to give > you a roadtest sometime :-) That you will :P This all goes to prove that you have too much time to listen to music and not enough time spent watching TV and other important life tasks :P Niall ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:27:16 +1000 From: "Niall Connaughton" To: Subject: RE: mammeries of the way they used to be Message-ID: You mean after he pulled his lame "I'm leaving on post #2112" thing? I think he came back as some other old user and everyone bagged the crap out of him :P Looks like back to days of old indeed :P > -----Original Message----- > From: ytsejam@torchsong.com [mailto:ytsejam@torchsong.com]On Behalf Of > Souter, Jan-Michael > Sent: Wednesday, 28 April 2004 4:53 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: RE: mammeries of the way they used to be > > > Mike Bahr still posts on the Mike Portnoy forums from time to time. Just > in case anyone wanted to know... > > ; ) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:29:51 -0400 From: xcitor To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: DT summer touring plans Message-ID: i was just wondering about this lately, and i see this today: Italian Dream Theater shows in July (Tour Dates) It is currently unknown if these will be "one-off" shows or part of another European leg. Sat July 03 - Roma, Italy - Centrale Del Tennis Foro Italico Mon July 05 - Firenze, Italy - Piazzale Michelangelo Tue July 06 - Bergamo, Italy - Lazzaretto i actually have a trip booked to Italy and will be in Rome at that time. man, wonder if the wife would tolerate a DT show in Italy??!!! -- email_address_removed SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:38:35 -0700 From: "Zachary Gemmill" To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Bahr Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0081E05188256E83_ charset=us-ascii Hi, uh, I don't want to open olde wounds, but could someone post a summary of what happened to Bahr and his business? I was absent from the 'jam in the late '90s when whatever drama happened. Thanks. Zach --=_alternative 0081E05188256E83_ ---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:09:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Dave Peterson To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Death and progression Message-ID: Usually, I've been the "advocate" for death metal on this list, but it seems the torch has been handed. Look guys, let's get real. Dimmu Borgir and Children of Bodom are NOT AT ALL representative of standard Death Metal. They are kick-ass progressive offshoots, as is Opeth, Tristania, Meshuggah, In Flames and Soilwork. Straight-ahead Death Metal, by DEFINITION, has NO MELODY. That was the whole point of the genre. Look it up. Also, as far as songwriting goes, death metal is at the bottom of the barrel. Carcass, for example, would open Biology textbooks and piece together words that sounded cool together. A local Minneapolis DM band named Anal Blast doesn't even have lyrics! A quote from the singer: "I just growl a lot". Death metal bands, in general, also forget that there's a certain musical nuance called "dynamics". Nah, they just go out to strive to be the biggest, baddest, LOUDEST, FASTEST DM band in the WORLD!!! Great guys, good for you. Music sucks, but you're the loudest. Talent is subjective. Yes, many of the riffs in DM are incredibly hard to pull off some of those riffs. Yeah, they probably have more talent than the average bullshit cookie-cutter artist that is spewed from the anus of MTV, but in my world, I demand more. I'm a Dream Theater fan to the core and I need more than wicked-fast riffs and blast-beats. (Don't get me started on blast-beats.) *shrug* So yes, I am generalizing. But not out of ignorance. - Dr. Teeth --- "Paul W. Cashman" wrote: > Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 14:37:42 -0400 > > From: WB Henderson > > Subject: Re: good ole days > > > > Dr. Teeth wrote: > > > > >(FYI, I HATE most death metal bands, for their lack of > > >melody/talent/songwriting) > > > > To say that most death metal doesn't require talent or songwriting > > abilities is pretty ignorant of most death metal. > > I couldn't agree more, even though 6 years ago I'd have probably tossed > out the same blanket generalization that Dr. Teeth did. And like most > generalizations, it would have been wrong. > > Hmmm. Children of Bodom, Dimmu Bogir (especially their last two > CDs).... There's a lot of talent and songwriting (and dare I say it, > progressive elements) there, and those two are just for starters. > > > -- > +--- Paul W. Cashman, ICQ #4151223 www.paulcashman.com ----+ > | NEW email: email_address_removed | > | "true" website address: http://home.comcast.net/~pellaz | > +---------------------------------------------------------------+ > > ---YTSEJAM-FILTER: This message was posted using the YML command __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:20:27 -0700 From: "Trevor Hoit" To: Subject: CoB Message-ID: <000f01c42cd8$233d6240$message_id_removed> >>Hmmm. Children of Bodom, >>Don't care that much for CoB, but thier keyboard player has a couple of >> killer solo cds. >Who's the 'boardist? Janne Warmen-His band is called Warmen. Two cds called "Unknown Soldier" and "Beyond Abilities". >you talking killer neoclassical metal solo cds, killer prog metal cds? killer folk pop cds? cmon, elaborate :) Uh, killer neoclassical keyboard-centric Jens/Strat-influenced prog metal cds. ---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 03:01:00 -0400 From: Mike Shetzer To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Death and progression Message-ID: <001a01c42cee$90640890$9b00a8c0@mizz> --Boundary_(ID_rg0wb6NbalKc1bXPuLtdmg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Some or most of those generalizations hold, but all bands you mentioned in the top paragraph totally are outside that generalization. Melodicness, great lyrics, originality, some or all those are part of the death metal bands you listed. That's what sets em apart, and frankly, that's what allows me to listen to them. Straight up death metal is too boring for me sometimes, these bands have the missing oomph to keep me interested! :) ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Peterson To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 10:42 PM Subject: Re: Death and progression Usually, I've been the "advocate" for death metal on this list, but it seems the torch has been handed. Look guys, let's get real. Dimmu Borgir and Children of Bodom are NOT AT ALL representative of standard Death Metal. They are kick-ass progressive offshoots, as is Opeth, Tristania, Meshuggah, In Flames and Soilwork. Straight-ahead Death Metal, by DEFINITION, has NO MELODY. That was the whole point of the genre. Look it up. Also, as far as songwriting goes, death metal is at the bottom of the barrel. Carcass, for example, would open Biology textbooks and piece together words that sounded cool together. A local Minneapolis DM band named Anal Blast doesn't even have lyrics! A quote from the singer: "I just growl a lot". Death metal bands, in general, also forget that there's a certain musical nuance called "dynamics". Nah, they just go out to strive to be the biggest, baddest, LOUDEST, FASTEST DM band in the WORLD!!! Great guys, good for you. Music sucks, but you're the loudest. Talent is subjective. Yes, many of the riffs in DM are incredibly hard to pull off some of those riffs. Yeah, they probably have more talent than the average bullshit cookie-cutter artist that is spewed from the anus of MTV, but in my world, I demand more. I'm a Dream Theater fan to the core and I need more than wicked-fast riffs and blast-beats. (Don't get me started on blast-beats.) *shrug* So yes, I am generalizing. But not out of ignorance. - Dr. Teeth --- "Paul W. Cashman" wrote: > Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 14:37:42 -0400 > > From: WB Henderson > > Subject: Re: good ole days > > > > Dr. Teeth wrote: > > > > >(FYI, I HATE most death metal bands, for their lack of > > >melody/talent/songwriting) > > > > To say that most death metal doesn't require talent or songwriting > > abilities is pretty ignorant of most death metal. > > I couldn't agree more, even though 6 years ago I'd have probably tossed > out the same blanket generalization that Dr. Teeth did. And like most > generalizations, it would have been wrong. > > Hmmm. Children of Bodom, Dimmu Bogir (especially their last two > CDs).... There's a lot of talent and songwriting (and dare I say it, > progressive elements) there, and those two are just for starters. > > > -- > +--- Paul W. Cashman, ICQ #4151223 www.paulcashman.com ----+ > | NEW email: email_address_removed | > | "true" website address: http://home.comcast.net/~pellaz | > +---------------------------------------------------------------+ > > ---YTSEJAM-FILTER: This message was posted using the YML command __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover --Boundary_(ID_rg0wb6NbalKc1bXPuLtdmg) ---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 15:55:07 -0500 From: "Souter, Jan-Michael" Subject: RE: new dream theater DVD Message-ID: That's all cool and stuff, but I'm personally more excited about the reunion show with Charlie and Derek performing When Dream and Day Unite.. Was -hoping- that would be the next DVD... bah.. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Drew Check it! Dream Theater has recorded their show at the Budokan in Tokyo, Japan on April 26th, 2004, for an upcoming Live DVD/CD release. The setlist for this show was as follows: band history video (intro tape) As I Am This Dying Soul Beyond This Life Hollow Years War Inside My Head/ The Test That Stumped Them All Endless Sacrifice Instrumedley Trial Of Tears ~~~intermission~~~ New Millennium piano solo Only A Matter Of Time Goodnight Kiss/ Solitary Shell Stream of Consciousness Disappear Pull Me Under ~~~encore~~~ In The Name Of God That's really exciting! I can't wait, and thats a good setlist too. Especially "Dissapear", "Instrumedley"(I've never heard/seen it live), "Stream of consciousness" and "In the Name of God". How about a SX and DT tour? What do you guys think? Chris Drew ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 16:18:18 -0500 From: "Souter, Jan-Michael" Subject: RE: new dream theater DVD Message-ID: Heard that Kevin was invited but declined. -----Original Message----- From: Mr Flaviano Gijon I agree Jan on your opinion, it be to much too dream of if they would include Kevin on track or two, that's just me! Flavio. "Souter, Jan-Michael" wrote: That's all cool and stuff, but I'm personally more excited about the reunion show with Charlie and Derek performing When Dream and Day Unite.. Was -hoping- that would be the next DVD... bah.. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Drew Check it! Dream Theater has recorded their show at the Budokan in Tokyo, Japan on April 26th, 2004, for an upcoming Live DVD/CD release. The setlist for this show was as follows: ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:26:12 -0400 From: WB Henderson To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Death and progression Message-ID: Dr. Teeth wrote: >Dimmu Borgir and Children of Bodom are NOT AT ALL representative of >standard Death Metal. That's correct. Getting nitpicky here, Dimmu's technically not at all representative of standard black metal, their parent subgenre. (Black, death, grindcore, etc. are often lumped together under the 'extreme metal' umbrella these days.) >Straight-ahead Death Metal, by DEFINITION, has NO MELODY. That was the whole >point of the genre. Look it up. Where does it say that? Here's the allmusicguide definition: "Death Metal grew out of the thrash metal in the late '80s. Taking the gritty lyrics and morbid obsessions of thrash to extremes, death metal was -- as its name suggests -- solely about death, pain, and suffering. These relentlessly bleak lyrics were set to loud, heavy riffs that owed as much to the lumbering metal of Black Sabbath as it did to Metallica. Death metal bands also owed a debt to the complex song structures of '70s art rockers, though most of these winding, intricate compositional methods were learned through Metallica. Death metal never attracted a wide audience, but to some diehard heavy metal fans, it was a preferable alternative to Metallica and Guns N' Roses -- who were selling millions of records in the late '80s and early '90s -- or the pop-metal of Poison. It kept a small, dedicated cult throughout the '90s." BNR Metal's definition mentions 'less melody', which is often the case, but 'no melody' by rule? That ain't in print anywhere that's not blatantly biased. >Also, as far as songwriting goes, death metal is at the bottom of the barrel. >Carcass, for example, would open Biology textbooks and piece together words >that sounded cool together. A local Minneapolis DM band named Anal Blast >doesn't even have lyrics! First off, both of the two bands you mention there are grindcore, not death metal. Better 'average' death metal, if you're looking for examples, are bands like Cannibal Corpse, Obituary and Vader. And they ain't bad. Secondly, while I'll agree that Anal Blast is quite mediocre, have you actually listened to Carcass? Their mid-period recordings ('Heartwork', 'Necroticism', etc.) are some of the most innovative metal out there, and helped give rise to an entire death sub-subgenre: melodic death. (Michael Amott, the main force behind Arch Enemy, got his start in Carcass.) Third, you're writing off both bands simply because you find the lyrics dumb? Alright, it works out in AB's case, but... >Death metal bands, in general, also forget that there's a certain musical >nuance called "dynamics". Nah, they just go out to strive to be the biggest, >baddest, LOUDEST, FASTEST DM band in the WORLD!!! Again, broad generalizations. If dynamics are your thing, there are plenty of DM bands that fulfill the requirement. You talked about exceptions to the rule...there are a lot of those. The death spectrum incorporates an astoundingly wide range of sounds. Bah, I'm done. Forgive me this rant. Karyn Hamilton wrote: >Alchemist were not as good as the couple of other times I've seen them >since then; their sound was pretty muddy. Lucky Aussies. Alchemist rules. Unless I'm mistaken, they've never played North America. Or Europe for that matter. (Nice change of pace, eh?) >Soilwork were co-headlining, but to be honest, I'd much rather listen to >their album - they just don't seem to be able to translate their excellence >into a live show. Yeah, they really disappointed me when I saw them last year too. The lipsynched backing vocals didn't help. Brian [NP...Hawkwind - Hall of the Mountain Grill] ============================================= WB Henderson email_address_removed ============================================= ------------------------------ Date: 28 Apr 2004 22:50:20 +0100 From: Graham Borland To: Ytsejam Subject: DT in Seoul Message-ID: I was lucky enough to be able to attend the DT show in Seoul last night. It was pretty cool. (Mark: thanks for the mail you sent me when I first asked for advice. I tried to reply but it bounced.) It killed me to have to spend a three-hour gig without a beer, though! No alcohol allowed in the venue. What a downer. I want to thank all the kind Korean DT fans who directed me to the venue, translated for me when I obviously didn't have a clue how the ticket queues worked, and especially to the guy who gave me a lift to the subway station when I got lost after the show. :-) Setlist was something along the lines of: As I Am This Dying Soul The Mirror Beyond This Life (inc. keyboard/drum solo) Hollow Years Endless Sacrifice Finally Free Trial Of Tears Caught In A Web A Fortune In Lies Vacant Stream Of Consciousness Another Day In The Name Of God Metropolis Part 1 I've probably missed some out and got them in the wrong order, but it was a great show. I thought this after the London show, and again after last night's show: Petrucci's solo in Hollow Years on this tour is the most beautiful thing he's ever come up with. Stunning. -- Graham Borland email_address_removed ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 6860 ************************** === Contributions to ytsejam: ytsejam@torchsong.com === === Send requests to: ytsejam-request@torchsong.com === === More information at: http://www.dreamt.org/local/ytsejam.php === === Brought by the ghost of ytsejam@arastar.coms past === === Reach the owner of this list at: ytsejam-owner@torchsong.com ===