YTSEJAM Digest 6726 Today's Topics: 1) re: wankery by "Ilia" 2) Re: *****SPAM***** re: wankery by Brian Hayden 3) cover by "Trevor Hoit" 4) RE: wankery by "Niall Connaughton" 5) Re: Vocal melodies by email_address_removed 6) Re: cover by email_address_removed 7) Re: wankery by Alexis Ramos 8) HOLY SHIT!! by Eric George ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:31:51 -0500 From: "Ilia" To: Subject: re: wankery Message-ID: So then, let's take a look at music in its purest form. As is fortunate for us, the well-tempered system outlines by Bach in his Well-Tempered Clavier, is demonstrated as a physical, universal principle in the universe, by such occurences as, say, the solar system. The orbits of the planets around the sun have all the scales, harmonies, counterpoints, and cadences that you'll find in music that is anywhat coherent (read some Kepler if you're dubious on this matter). Our harmonic system, whether you like it or not is based on those principles. Anyone willing to deny that (Rameau for example, whose name itself spells idiocy thanks to his demagogy), understand nothing of what he's listening to. As you were probably (hopefully) taught in your high school English composition class (or whatever other language may be your primary one), a well-developed thread of reasoning must be founded on things that are ontologically true, logically organized, and communicably presented to the audience. In this very way, we use music to present ideas, based on universal truths, by presenting each point (note, qualifying as harmonic content) one at a time, by those that gravitate toward it (the tensions and the resolutions), which are surrounding (supporting) of your point. The totality of your argument should resolve to your main point (in music, it's called a tonic), which you have supported (tonicized) throughout your argument and then left as your intent behind your writing (or performance, as is often the case with music). Any superfluous examples (and points on the merits of those examples outlying) are what I can see legitimately called "wankery"; however, nothing that supports a valid point as a necessity to the physical manifestation of that point as a universal truth, can even be wankerous. Now, I'm not a fan of Yngwie to the extreme. I have no love to show for the showmanship behind the soloing on the new Yngwie album. I don't like solos in Slayer songs simply because they're fast. But any time a collection of notes first presents a group of notes in a particular order (let's call that a progression, why not right?), next outlines those notes summarily as a quick succession of tones, can not ever be called wankerous by any person who claims to be a legitimate appreciator of music (true musicians need be included in this group). A true opinion expressed in pure music (let's note: Bach never wrote one word in a spoken language), is one in which an arrangement of tones, gravitating to each other in an organized, naturally lawful system, is presented in a logical fashion as a succession of one another, presenting a point. Take the case of people like Rob, who dismiss any fast playing as "wankery" altogether, and calls people "clowns" for using this sort of playing. Such people, whether intentionally or not, whether willingly or not, succumb to their psychologically-rooted hate for anything that passes their feeble minds in too quick a succession of ideas. In doing so, they also deny existence of universal truths. However notably, they do accept the fact that this world (as much of it as we know anyway) exists in a physically-lawful order, and that most people on this list are capable of reading that which I wrote. No opinions stated about that, huh? Any questions of whether anyone reads words the same way, likes them the same way, appreciates them in the same way as everyone else? On the subject of humor: what I mentioned was ridicule of what some people portray as "genuinely human", as things that we can in no way circumvent. Anybody on this list who has no freedom of will, should probably reconsider their way of thinking. True, I'm challenging things that are true and dear to people (most notably to the baby boomer generation): their feelings, emotions, and the like. Others, who do realize that they are free to act upon their instincts and overcome them, are - and you can't erally argue with this logic - free to do so. My references to whatever things anyone calls "sexual" or "inappropriate" were purely metaphorical; metaphor being a principle underlying our very thinking that many (even of those on this list), have lost with the years. I find nothing humorous in sexual references in and of themselves, and anyone who misread my commentary as such should consider their societal origin before criticizing. I'm willing to take this thread no further, as it is of no pertinence to any subject in discussion. If anyone has anything to say about this to me, please do so via private e-mail. I apologize to all on the list whom I've dis/perturbed with this thread. Ilia ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:48:02 -0600 (CST) From: Brian Hayden To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** re: wankery Message-ID: Give ma break, Ilia. I'm not going to pick apart your post, as it would bore me, but having lived and studied the last 6 years with crit theory and music PhDs, I can tell from a mile away that you're spouting shit. Get over yourself. -brian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:00:08 -0800 From: "Trevor Hoit" To: Subject: cover Message-ID: <004301c3b899$8aa3bf00$message_id_removed> Is TOT the first album cover without the "M" Symbol thingie, or is it that little white thing in the eyeball? Trevor ---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:06:17 +1100 From: "Niall Connaughton" To: Subject: RE: wankery Message-ID: "Dad, what was the point of that story?" "... I like stories." > -----Original Message----- > From: ytsejam@torchsong.com [mailto:ytsejam@torchsong.com]On Behalf Of > Ilia > Sent: Tuesday, 2 December 2003 2:19 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: re: wankery ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:01:22 EST From: email_address_removed To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Vocal melodies Message-ID: --part1_128.3682fe10.2cfdf532_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" i think marcel would talk way more than jm. take away his computer and steven hawking talks more than jm. jacko ps before you physicists flame me, i'm kidding about sh. it would be a tie. --part1_128.3682fe10.2cfdf532_boundary ---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:09:43 EST From: email_address_removed To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: cover Message-ID: --part1_79.1de239d8.2cfdf727_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" it's in the eyeball. i used a magnifying glass to see what that thing was. jacko --part1_79.1de239d8.2cfdf727_boundary ---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 06:51:19 -0800 (PST) From: Alexis Ramos To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: wankery Message-ID: Ilia wrote: Opinions are one thing, whining about things he and everybody else already said several times are another. Freedom of opinion is one thing, rubbing in your personal psychological reaction to the thing that is the object of said opinion is another. It makes no one friendlier to each other when some people's utter hatred for things that some other people love (or at least don't vehemently dislike) is expressed so blatantly. I say all this, and I don't even have much to say in defense of TOT or wankery.... Ilia A-M-E-N. I can't agree with you more. It seems (or seemed, hopefully) that every single jam had to have about 2 or 3 messages by Mr. Rob P trashing the new album and saying how much he dislikes it. I think that's enough, Rob. I don't know if you want to get other people to think the same way you do or if you just need to get it out of your system repeatedly in order to release the fury, but either way I think it's time to stop. Don't worry, nobody will ever think you like the album. You've made your point. Now just let everyone else try to make up their own mind. Alexis __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:11:01 +0000 (UTC) From: Eric George To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: HOLY SHIT!! Message-ID: ....errr..., i mean.... wow. My reaction during the entire 2 hr & 25 min bliss that is the new Transatlantic "Live in Europe" Limited Ed. 2 DVD & 2 CD box set. I got it in the mail yesterday (delayed over a month due to NTSC audio sync probs), & promptly watched the entire show. I can honestly say it is one of the most incredible shows I've ever seen, right there with Pink Floyd "Pulse". It was recorded at the 013 Club in Tilburg (same as the Spock's Beard "Don't Try This at Home" DVD), & was the 4th show in the 11 gig tour. What an unbelievable performance. They setlist, as commented upon by MP, was "nothing but fuckin' epics, baby". They opened with "Duel With The Devil", then went on to play "My New World" & "We All Need Some Light" from SMPTe. Since this concert took place only a few months after 9/11, the band dedicated "WANSL" to NYC, complete with Neal wearing a NYC sports jersey. After that powerful & very moving rendition, they went on to play "The Suite Charlotte Pike Medley", which included a TON of Abbey Road covers mixed in. The original "SCP" clocks in at 13 min, or something. This Medley was a half hour. I've never seen a band have SO MUCH FUN as these guys had during this song. Especially Pete Trewevas. I'd never seen him live before, but this man is a bundle of energy on stage. Quite the contrast to Roine Stolt, who's playing ability more than makes up for his lack of stage presence. They wrapped things up with "Stranger In Your Soul", followed by "All Of The Above" as the encore. These guys FEEL the music that they're playing; you can read it all over their faces. This music is a part of them, & it shows in the live environment. The BIGGEST FRIGGIN' suprise of the whole show, however, was seeing who the "5th" member of Transatlantic was. None other than Daniel Gildenlow from POS. He went through the whole tour with them, providing backing (& occassionaly lead) keys, guitar, & vocals. Perfectly complimenting the music, as I would have expected nothing less from the musical chameleon that is Mr. Gildenlow. I haven't even gotten to the 2nd DVD yet, which contains a live cover of "Shine On You Crazy Diamond", plus Roine's backstage "Tour Documentary" video. However, I have no doubt that these will also be well worth my dollar. For those that haven't seen this yet, I recommend that you go out and snag this up as soon as possible. You can get the CD's or DVD's seperately, but I would suggest the box set if at all possible. Gorgeous packaging, crammed w/ tour photos & comments on the show by all 4 bandmembers. The cool thing about the show was seeing all the different types of people that were in the audience. Long-haired DT guys (evident by the shirts), girls w/ noserings & girls with Tiffany jewelry (rare prog fans), and older men & women into their 60's. At the end of "We All Need Some Light", there were tears being wiped from people's eyes, and during "Stranger In Your Soul", a grandmotherly lady singing along at the top of her lungs. Just goes to show you the boundaries, ages, & stereotypes that heartfelt music can cross. All that being said, I've inspired myself to give it another viewing. Catch ya round. -- Best Regards, Independent Computer Consultant, Eric George -Tech Guru's "The least important things in life get the most appreciation. The most important things in life don't seem to get enough." -me Proud "Trillian" user http://www.ceruleanstudios.com AIM screename: Ryften13 ICQ #: 163843613 email_address_removed (text-based email) email_address_removed -or- email_address_removed (HTML-based email) SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org Progressive Musician's Forum - http://www0.org/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi#general ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 6726 ************************** === Contributions to ytsejam: ytsejam@torchsong.com === === Send requests to: ytsejam-request@torchsong.com === === More information at: http://www.dreamt.org/local/ytsejam.php === === Brought by the ghost of ytsejam@arastar.coms past === === Reach the owner of this list at: ytsejam-owner@torchsong.com ===