YTSEJAM Digest 6687 Today's Topics: 1) Re: contest by Rick Audet 2) RE: contest, et al. by "Ilia" 3) DT Contest song by Steve Chew 4) Re: contest, et al. by Mike Shetzer 5) Re: as i am by Antony Gelberg 6) AS I AM by Stan Tyszka 7) Re: AS I AM by Mike Shetzer 8) Re: as i am by "Nathan J Wilhelm" 9) Re: AS I AM by "Rob P" 10) Re: AS I AM by Antony Gelberg 11) Re: AS I AM by Mike Shetzer 12) Re: DT Contest song by "Cassiano P. Barbosa" 13) Re: AS I AM by Andrew Coutermarsh 14) RE: AS I AM by Niall Connaughton 15) Re: AS I AM by Mike Shetzer 16) RE: AS I AM by Niall Connaughton 17) Re: If anybody DOES know... at last ! by "Stephen Gervois" 18) Re: AS I AM by "Rob P" 19) Freak Kitchen by "Nathan J Wilhelm" 20) Re: Freak Kitchen by Rick Audet ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 11:45:38 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Audet To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: contest Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Cassiano P. Barbosa wrote: > > And where might a person hear that? > > Here: > > http://home.comcast.net/~dtawake/dtawakedtcontest.mp3 File Not Found. Help? Thanks! -Rick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 15:31:35 -0500 From: "Ilia" To: Subject: RE: contest, et al. Message-ID: > ok, before I say I want it, what's a click track? ;) The metronome programming. I write everything I do in standard notation, so I just enter the click in Finale. Brian's version sounds great, but I can't follow it based on the Portnoy's/Rudess's charts, so I'm thinking he may not have stuck to it precisely. So it certainly won't ruin it for you. And maybe we're just underestimating DT since it's been almost two years since the last studio album, and we haven't heard anything new from them since - but COME ON, is there any seriousness in people wondering whether an entry like that is even close to the real thing? No offense to the author or anything, few people can put in an entry like that, but we're talking about Dream Theater here. Whether it was their intention or not, DT are playing a game with us. First, they write and record this instrumental, then tell everyone its structure and give incentive to write original compositions based on it. So now they get to hear these contest entries (with the chance of someone topping them both compositionally and performance-wise). And after the song is released, all the entrants go through a similar experience listening to the real thing! Brilliant. And on the side note, I wasn't impressed with As I Am at all, but as MP aptly points out, it'd be foolish to judge the album on that one song. It does sound like something mainstream audiences might get down with, style-wise... but then again, a lot of people thought that of Misunderstood and Glass Prison, last time. Let's hope some radio exposure gets people to buy the album and give SoC and the other progged-out (guessing there's a lot of that) material a fair chance - maybe it'll be the album that changes mainstream radio! Ilia ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:48:12 -0500 From: Steve Chew To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: DT Contest song Message-ID: > >---- Original Message ----- >From: "Antony Gelberg" >> > > He's won the competition. If more than one person has produced a >track >> > > of this quality, then I'm giving up on prog, as it's just too >> > >> > Hear Mark Moore entry and consider doing that. ;) >> >> And where might a person hear that? > >Here: > >http://home.comcast.net/~dtawake/dtawakedtcontest.mp3 > >I still don't like the drum sound, but this is just a freakin' great epic... >The classical session is just mind-blowing. One of the greatest things I've >heard this year, seriously... Have fun. :) > That link didn't work for me. And the other "sample" links under ~dtawake didn't either. Does anyone else have this MP3 available? Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:00:53 -0500 From: Mike Shetzer To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: contest, et al. Message-ID: <005f01c39c0c$9ffd15d0$9b00a8c0@mizz> I can sort of follow it Portnoy-wise, I can hear which section go with what part and the time signatures help. A lot of Brian's riffs are really crazy, I'm very impressed. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ilia" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 3:32 PM Subject: RE: contest, et al. > > > ok, before I say I want it, what's a click track? ;) > > The metronome programming. I write everything I do in standard notation, so > I just enter the click in Finale. > > Brian's version sounds great, but I can't follow it based on the > Portnoy's/Rudess's charts, so I'm thinking he may not have stuck to it > precisely. So it certainly won't ruin it for you. > > And maybe we're just underestimating DT since it's been almost two years > since the last studio album, and we haven't heard anything new from them > since - but COME ON, is there any seriousness in people wondering whether an > entry like that is even close to the real thing? No offense to the author > or anything, few people can put in an entry like that, but we're talking > about Dream Theater here. > > Whether it was their intention or not, DT are playing a game with us. > First, they write and record this instrumental, then tell everyone its > structure and give incentive to write original compositions based on it. So > now they get to hear these contest entries (with the chance of someone > topping them both compositionally and performance-wise). And after the song > is released, all the entrants go through a similar experience listening to > the real thing! Brilliant. > > And on the side note, I wasn't impressed with As I Am at all, but as MP > aptly points out, it'd be foolish to judge the album on that one song. It > does sound like something mainstream audiences might get down with, > style-wise... but then again, a lot of people thought that of Misunderstood > and Glass Prison, last time. Let's hope some radio exposure gets people to > buy the album and give SoC and the other progged-out (guessing there's a lot > of that) material a fair chance - maybe it'll be the album that changes > mainstream radio! > > Ilia > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 23:45:47 +0000 From: Antony Gelberg To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: as i am Message-ID: On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 06:22:35AM -0800, Rob P wrote: > > >LOOK AT IT LIKE A TRAILER TO A MOVIE!!!! > > > > > >Enjoy this taste, but please don't pass judgement on us or the entire CD > > >until 11/11.... > > > > > >MP > > If this was a trailer to a movie, I'd never consider going to see it but > rather just say "eh, rental maybe." Film trailers tend to have the best bits in. A DT radio edit tends to have the bits that are listenable to the general population of the planet. I have no idea why they bother. It's not as if the world is going to hear it and suddenly wonder where DT has been all their lives. FWIW, I think the clip shows a return to the FII vibe. T ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 19:03:10 -0500 From: Stan Tyszka To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: AS I AM Message-ID: Listened to the radio edit. Liked it alot, Seeing people slag it. Here is food for thought. Look at the track time for the radio edit vs the actual track time. Notice a large difference in this area? there are a few minutes missing. It is radio safe. REMEMBER-for the most part the radio edit of blind faith and misunderstood were somewhat dulled down. the radio needs to do this. I think that if you listen to the song closely, and have any sort of grasp on the bands style, you should be able to tell where the edit cuts are made. 10 bucks says that once people hear the full version they are going to freak on this song. That is just my opinion, fire away. I think it is also pre-mature to render thoughts of what an entire album will be based on a radio edit recorded at low quality. Stan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 19:26:03 -0500 From: Mike Shetzer To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: AS I AM Message-ID: <009201c39c20$e7a0afa0$9b00a8c0@mizz> I agree to some extent. The not judging the song based on low quality and length is true. I'm still eager to hear the rest of the song, but my first opinions of the track still stand: kickass solo, cool riffs, catchy, but not enough complexity. They are 100% subject to change upon hearing the rest, it's not carved in stone and I hope everyone else's opinions of the edit aren't either. I for one LOVED the real version of Blind Faith and made the radio edit that much better. Misunderstood, however, is a great song but I find the last 3 minutes, while cool, just causes the song to drag on with it's repetitive chord progression. Hearing that the radio edit was 3-4 minutes shorter than the real song, I was disappointed to find that the part the radio cut out was in fact the part of the song I liked the least. Misunderstood is still a great song, though. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stan Tyszka" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 7:04 PM Subject: AS I AM > Listened to the radio edit. Liked it alot, Seeing people slag it. > Here is food for thought. Look at the track time for the radio edit vs > the actual track time. Notice a large difference in this area? there > are a few minutes missing. It is radio safe. REMEMBER-for the most > part the radio edit of blind faith and misunderstood were somewhat > dulled down. the radio needs to do this. I think that if you listen > to the song closely, and have any sort of grasp on the bands style, you > should be able to tell where the edit cuts are made. 10 bucks says > that once people hear the full version they are going to freak on this > song. That is just my opinion, fire away. > > > I think it is also pre-mature to render thoughts of what an entire > album will be based on a radio edit recorded at low quality. > > > Stan > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:29:05 -0600 From: "Nathan J Wilhelm" To: Subject: Re: as i am Message-ID: <001101c39c21$5535f840$0d00a8c0@nathan> Am I the only one who thinks this song sounds cool? Yes it's not very "progressive" and it's not what we've come to expect from DT, but let's remember that it's a radio edit. Isn't the whole point of a radio edit to make a song radio friendly? This sounds like a song that I would hear on the local rock station. So my guess would be that they cut all of of prog-sounding stuff out of it to make it something that would appeal to the common rock listener. Some of you sound like you've given up on this being a good album already. I know I can't wait until Nov. 11th. Nate ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 19:45:08 -0500 From: "Rob P" To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: AS I AM Message-ID: I totally understand that the actual song is longer. The problem is that more of this song won't necessarily make it better. The real problem I have is that DT seems to rely far too much on "influences". This sounds like Tool, this sounds like Radiohead, this sounds like Metallica. Sure in the end it is Dream Theater, I just prefer it to be more unique. "Images And Words", "Scenes From A Memory" are unique in their sound. They seem to be always trying to damn hard for something. When the ideas flow more naturally, nothing seems forced (LTE, Scenes). I know the album will probably be decent but why settle? I wind up preferring Porcupine Tree, Parallel Or 90 Degrees or even some old Nektar for some uniqueness. What I am struggling with is that "As I Am" is a dud the same way "Lie" was a dud. It has nothing to do with sound quality or it being an edit. A good song is a good song, a boring song is just that. :) Flame away. I am hoping that the rest of the album redeems this song and maybe we actually hear Jordan. Rob >From: Stan Tyszka >Reply-To: ytsejam@torchsong.com >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: AS I AM >Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:04:34 -0800 (PST) > >Listened to the radio edit. Liked it alot, Seeing people slag it. >Here is food for thought. Look at the track time for the radio edit vs >the actual track time. Notice a large difference in this area? there >are a few minutes missing. It is radio safe. REMEMBER-for the most >part the radio edit of blind faith and misunderstood were somewhat >dulled down. the radio needs to do this. I think that if you listen >to the song closely, and have any sort of grasp on the bands style, you >should be able to tell where the edit cuts are made. 10 bucks says >that once people hear the full version they are going to freak on this >song. That is just my opinion, fire away. > > >I think it is also pre-mature to render thoughts of what an entire >album will be based on a radio edit recorded at low quality. > > >Stan > _________________________________________________________________ Never get a busy signal because you are always connected with high-speed Internet access. Click here to comparison-shop providers. https://broadband.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 01:08:00 +0000 From: Antony Gelberg To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: AS I AM Message-ID: On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 04:34:59PM -0800, Rob P wrote: > I totally understand that the actual song is longer. The problem is that > more of this song won't necessarily make it better. The real problem I have > is that DT seems to rely far too much on "influences". This is a little unfair since everything is influenced by something. > This sounds like > Tool, this sounds like Radiohead, this sounds like Metallica. Sure in the > end it is Dream Theater, I just prefer it to be more unique. "Images And > Words", "Scenes From A Memory" are unique in their sound. There are Metallica and Rush influences on IaW, and Tool and Floyd on SFAM. And that's just for starters. So they aren't totally "unique" in their sound. As you (kind of) say, the uniqueness is in how they pull everything together, and I'm sure this album will be no disappointment. For all of the last three albums, I wondered how they could match their last one. Now I just trust them to put out something interesting. >They seem to be > always trying to damn hard for something. When the ideas flow more > naturally, nothing seems forced (LTE, Scenes). > > I know the album will probably be decent but why settle? I wind up > preferring Porcupine Tree, Parallel Or 90 Degrees or even some old Nektar > for some uniqueness. What I am struggling with is that "As I Am" is a dud > the same way "Lie" was a dud. It has nothing to do with sound quality or it > being an edit. It has everything to do with it being an edit, and perhaps something to do with sound quality. If you take all of the interesting bits out for the radio edit, then clearly there won't be much of interest left! T ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:23:39 -0500 From: Mike Shetzer To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: AS I AM Message-ID: <00d701c39c28$f3bb7740$9b00a8c0@mizz> I agree. At least this is spurring some good debate and lurkers of the jam to come out and talk. I have my opinions about the edit as do we all, and it's interesting to see how everyone takes an edit and formulates a "this is what I'll think about the edit". I'm still gonna run at warp 7 to my record store and grab the new CD when it comes and always keep in mind that it's still that same DT that we love. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Antony Gelberg" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 8:05 PM Subject: Re: AS I AM > On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 04:34:59PM -0800, Rob P wrote: > > I totally understand that the actual song is longer. The problem is that > > more of this song won't necessarily make it better. The real problem I have > > is that DT seems to rely far too much on "influences". > > This is a little unfair since everything is influenced by something. > > > This sounds like > > Tool, this sounds like Radiohead, this sounds like Metallica. Sure in the > > end it is Dream Theater, I just prefer it to be more unique. "Images And > > Words", "Scenes From A Memory" are unique in their sound. > > There are Metallica and Rush influences on IaW, and Tool and Floyd on > SFAM. And that's just for starters. So they aren't totally "unique" > in their sound. As you (kind of) say, the uniqueness is in how they pull > everything together, and I'm sure this album will be no disappointment. > For all of the last three albums, I wondered how they could match their > last one. Now I just trust them to put out something interesting. > >They seem to be > > always trying to damn hard for something. When the ideas flow more > > naturally, nothing seems forced (LTE, Scenes). > > > > I know the album will probably be decent but why settle? I wind up > > preferring Porcupine Tree, Parallel Or 90 Degrees or even some old Nektar > > for some uniqueness. What I am struggling with is that "As I Am" is a dud > > the same way "Lie" was a dud. It has nothing to do with sound quality or it > > being an edit. > > It has everything to do with it being an edit, and perhaps something to > do with sound quality. If you take all of the interesting bits out for > the radio edit, then clearly there won't be much of interest left! > > T > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 23:37:52 -0200 From: "Cassiano P. Barbosa" To: Subject: Re: DT Contest song Message-ID: <000f01c39c2a$f084cb60$02000003@y5q0j7> ----- Original Message ----- > That link didn't work for me. And the other "sample" links under > ~dtawake didn't either. Does anyone else have this MP3 available? > > Steve Bummer. :P Well, this server here has all the submissions that are available through MP3, but I was informed that it's not working this weekend, so give it a try tommorrow! http://67.66.219.2/dtcontest/ -cassiano ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 22:00:50 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Coutermarsh To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: AS I AM Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Antony Gelberg wrote: > > I totally understand that the actual song is longer. The problem is > > that more of this song won't necessarily make it better. The real > > problem I have is that DT seems to rely far too much on "influences". > > This is a little unfair since everything is influenced by something. Yes, but not everybody takes their influences and wears them on their sleeve so... proudly. I've listened to the radio edit and the full album version, both at high quality, and I must say that while the song IS catchy, it merely sounds like a Metallica song with a different "James" singing. There's absolutely nothing in it that screams "Dream Theater" to me. The one really good thing I will say about it, though, is that for once, you can REALLY hear Myung. Maybe that's because there are NO KEYBOARDS WHATSOEVER IN THIS SONG. I don't really know if that's a good point or a bad point, since I like Rudess and his playing but long for the old KevMo days. ------------------------------------------------- Andrew Coutermarsh - http://www.acvox.com/ Email Address: andrew at acvox dot com ------------------------------------------------- "It isn't pollution that's harming the environ- ment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it." - Dan Quayle ------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 14:26:25 +1100 From: Niall Connaughton To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: RE: AS I AM Message-ID: Well, if they're trying to do a classic metal album, then my vote is for Jordan to be one of those backing singers that stands there and goes "Doooooooo wup, shoooooowa" while clicking their fingers. Only, I guess with a classic metal album, he would be limited to just "Yeah" or perhaps the occasional "Die". Cos Jordan just didn't fit in on their version of MoP, to my ears anyway. The real question is... would it be any more shocking than his shaved head to see Jordan in a little black dress swinging his hips? :P Niall > -----Original Message----- > From: ytsejam@torchsong.com [mailto:ytsejam@torchsong.com]On Behalf Of > Andrew Coutermarsh > Sent: Monday, 27 October 2003 2:07 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: AS I AM > > The one really good thing I will say about it, though, is that for once, > you can REALLY hear Myung. Maybe that's because there are NO KEYBOARDS > WHATSOEVER IN THIS SONG. I don't really know if that's a good point or a > bad point, since I like Rudess and his playing but long for the old KevMo > days. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 22:58:02 -0500 From: Mike Shetzer To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: AS I AM Message-ID: <001e01c39c3e$850ccd60$9b00a8c0@mizz> Jordan sang on MoP? I thought it was Portnoy or JP... On another similar note, I'm intrigued that I didn't notice Jordan being completely inaudible in the entire radio edit... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Niall Connaughton" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 10:37 PM Subject: RE: AS I AM > Well, if they're trying to do a classic metal album, then my vote is for > Jordan to be one of those backing singers that stands there and goes > "Doooooooo wup, shoooooowa" while clicking their fingers. Only, I guess with > a classic metal album, he would be limited to just "Yeah" or perhaps the > occasional "Die". Cos Jordan just didn't fit in on their version of MoP, to > my ears anyway. > > The real question is... would it be any more shocking than his shaved head > to see Jordan in a little black dress swinging his hips? :P > > Niall ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 15:23:48 +1100 From: Niall Connaughton To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: RE: AS I AM Message-ID: Sorry, that's what I meant. I meant that his keys didn't fit on MoP, so he should go up front and take on some singing duties for the classic metal album :P Maybe they could do a Rudess & La Brie solo spot duet :P Niall > -----Original Message----- > From: ytsejam@torchsong.com [mailto:ytsejam@torchsong.com]On Behalf Of > Mike Shetzer > Sent: Monday, 27 October 2003 3:08 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: AS I AM > > > Jordan sang on MoP? > I thought it was Portnoy or JP... > > On another similar note, I'm intrigued that I didn't notice Jordan being > completely inaudible in the entire radio edit... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:16:14 +0100 From: "Stephen Gervois" To: Subject: Re: If anybody DOES know... at last ! Message-ID: <004e01c39c62$9781cc60$3cff9f0a@PCxxxx> >Is that on purpose perhaps that all the songs are either on the minute or on >the :30 mark? We'll Seb only heard 1 min from each song so my guess is that Mike filled him in on the song durations. Like "Thats 11mins, thats around 12 and a half... ect..." ACBLF 11:06; 7:02 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:23:58 -0500 From: "Rob P" To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: AS I AM Message-ID: I totally agree with Andrew. I guess that's what I am trying to say. The song doesn't sound like DT and quite honestly I don't think the SONG is that good. As I said, it has nothing to do with being an edit. I LOVE the edits of Blind Faith, Misunderstood and especially Solitary Shell!! Why? Because they are all good songs regardless of how you slice them. I am not trying to be difficult but DT need to be DT and not wear their influences so blatantly. :) >From: Andrew Coutermarsh >Reply-To: ytsejam@torchsong.com >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: Re: AS I AM >Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 19:06:53 -0800 (PST) > >On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Antony Gelberg wrote: > > > > I totally understand that the actual song is longer. The problem is > > > that more of this song won't necessarily make it better. The real > > > problem I have is that DT seems to rely far too much on "influences". > > > > This is a little unfair since everything is influenced by something. > >Yes, but not everybody takes their influences and wears them on their >sleeve so... proudly. > >I've listened to the radio edit and the full album version, both at high >quality, and I must say that while the song IS catchy, it merely sounds >like a Metallica song with a different "James" singing. There's >absolutely nothing in it that screams "Dream Theater" to me. > >The one really good thing I will say about it, though, is that for once, >you can REALLY hear Myung. Maybe that's because there are NO KEYBOARDS >WHATSOEVER IN THIS SONG. I don't really know if that's a good point or a >bad point, since I like Rudess and his playing but long for the old KevMo >days. > >------------------------------------------------- >Andrew Coutermarsh - http://www.acvox.com/ >Email Address: andrew at acvox dot com >------------------------------------------------- >"It isn't pollution that's harming the environ- >ment. It's the impurities in our air and water >that are doing it." > - Dan Quayle >------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account has exceeded its 2MB storage limit? Get Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:41:37 -0600 From: "Nathan J Wilhelm" To: Subject: Freak Kitchen Message-ID: <000d01c39ca0$d0ac2970$0d00a8c0@nathan> Does anyone know where I could buy their newest album, Move, at a reasonable price? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 08:43:15 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Audet To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Freak Kitchen Message-ID: http://www.lasercd.com/ On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Nathan J Wilhelm wrote: > Does anyone know where I could buy their newest album, Move, at a > reasonable price? > > ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 6687 ************************** === Contributions to ytsejam: ytsejam@torchsong.com === === Send requests to: ytsejam-request@torchsong.com === === More information at: http://www.dreamt.org/local/ytsejam.php === === Brought by the ghost of ytsejam@arastar.coms past === === Reach the owner of this list at: ytsejam-owner@torchsong.com ===