YTSEJAM Digest 6506 Today's Topics: 1) Re: Sound good?? and Re: Flamewar history by Mike Shetzer 2) felling proggy by email_address_removed 3) my take on the 'ryche by stan tyszka 4) Re: Rant about Prog by "Dominic H. Kallas" 5) Re: Punk, Prog, & somewhere in between.... by "Dominic H. Kallas" 6) QR by "Dan Costello" 7) Re: I guess I know what I'm doing this summer... by Michael & Pamela Nazer 8) Re: Styx by "Rob P" 9) RE: I guess I know what I'm doing this summer... by "Niall Connaughton" 10) Re: Sound good?? by "Karyn Hamilton" 11) Re: Rant about Prog by "Karyn Hamilton" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 23:44:47 -0500 From: Mike Shetzer To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Sound good?? and Re: Flamewar history Message-ID: <00b501c2f677$17a314e0$9b00a8c0@SHETZ> --Boundary_(ID_QhX+N5aq8J7+JJh1GR+6mw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Okay, but the mouth stays open. :D ----- Original Message ----- From: Antony Gelberg To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 8:14 PM Subject: Re: Sound good?? and Re: Flamewar history ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Shetzer" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 6:47 AM Subject: Re: Sound good?? and Re: Flamewar history > > --Boundary_(ID_ATSjPCF71vkB9TR2iuVE3A) > Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > That a special request? > I'm up for it :P Put your tongue away Mike! T --Boundary_(ID_QhX+N5aq8J7+JJh1GR+6mw) ---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 01:02:35 -0500 (EST) From: email_address_removed To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: felling proggy Message-ID: Hey Jammers, Newly revived from cryogenic sleep ... Just to throw my thoughts into the ring... Is Steve Vai considered Prog??? Does he not embody emotion with his writing/playing... listen to songs such as "Hand on Heart " from fire garden or "For the Love of GOD" from Passion and Warfare,.... Vai and others such as Satriani are to me very emotional, very few musicians/bands can bring tears to my eyes without passionate lyrics like those dudes. I can also name several other prog bands that are the same with lyrics. I cannot sing "Through her Eyes" without tearing up and the aforementioned ( on another subject ) Spock's Beard's Snow is an excellent example of emotional progressive music. On the other hand I may have missed something (I have been in lurk mode for some time ) but punk music simply makes me want to kick the living hell out of something which is also an emotional response. Country music makes me want to drink bear and shoot guns ( btw I don't even own a gun )Techno makes me want to fuck, classical makes me want to read a book or write poetry,... etc.. I guess what I'm trying to say is that people who like a particular genre of music tend to be passionate or emotional about it ( with a possible exception of pop music which in my opinion is only good for robots and sheep and people easily influenced by info mercials ) so therefore the musicians who make said music of a genre can either do it for "the money" or "the passion" and those of us who buy and support those musicians can either be passionate about what we listen to or just listen to kill time. Regardless music is in itself the vocalization of the thoughts, ideas and again ( my last use of the word ) passion of the people creating it. but then again what do I know I went to public schools, assume that I most definitely could be wrong. "Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens" Jimi Hendrix yawn ... with that in mind....back to bed, wake me when something interesting happens. PEACE Billy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 01:17:41 -0500 From: stan tyszka To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: my take on the 'ryche Message-ID: I am more in line to think that Promised Land is the Best with Empire a close second. Promised Land just really says it all for 'Ryche. Melodic music and such a good example of the Geoff Tate Dynamic. He stands out well on that disc. Not to mention that Scott Rockenfeld plays his ass of on those songs. On Saturday, March 29, 2003, at 11:27 PM, ytsejam@torchsong.com wrote: > > well, i would say i'm a huge QR fan, & own their whole catalog. > however, > aside of being fun once in a while to listen too (plus they help > complete > the catalog), i could care less about the first 2 albums. same goes > for > Hear In The Now Frontier. O:M is a great album, but not very > progressive. > yeah, it's a concept album, but so was "Tommy". good disc, but not > prog. > for the 2 discs i feel that have the most experimentation, emotion, and > progressive leanings, check out Rage For Order, as well as Promised > Land. > RFO is just plain classic, & PL is what would've happened if QR & Pink > Floyd would've collaborated together on an album. my 2 favs, hands > down. > hope this gives you a place to at least start looking. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 03:33:31 -0500 (EST) From: "Dominic H. Kallas" To: The ytsejam mailing list Subject: Re: Rant about Prog Message-ID: Heike Boedeker wrote: >Ah, yes, definitely true . I vaguely remember that a few punk and new >wave bands, however, had prog a/o fusion experienced musicians, but >probably these are not the hardcore cases you had in mind... I suppose you were referring to The Police in your remarks. I recall that each member has some sort of jazz/fusion background, and Sting once played in a progressive rock band. With that in mind, I am not surprised if a few musicians in the Punk movement had prior experience with Prog and Fusion. >>Punk is straight-from-the-gut emotional music, > >Well, let's say punk(ers)s like to be described that way, whether at >least >a significant portion of them really are uncompromisingly authentic to >the >marrow may be a different issue, though. Whether you're talking about Punk, Prog, or whatever, there are people who are genuine, and others who are just imitating. Hell, it's interesting that the imitators _act_ so much more serious about the ideals than the original forefathers of the movements did. >Heck, call me an academic egghead, but if *I* write a piece with a >passage >in which a 17/8 is played against a 17/4 this is definitely more >authentic >for *me* than when *I* ever tried (read: was forced...) to play a blues >boring myself to coma on stage. I do understand what you're saying. Perhaps your approach to music is due to your musical training or in how your brain processes information (especially when you are trying to express your thoughts) or from your experiences and influences. The differences are borne out in the music. I have no problem with the existence of "odd" time-signatures. Not everyone plays or even thinks in 4/4. I just think that time signature changes should come about naturally in the song rather than be _forced_ into it as fancy flourishes. I think you and I (and others on this list) can recognise when particular time signatures work and when they do not. >>grounded in reality not fantasy. > >Oh please... "reality" is one of the words with the highest abuse rate. >People call "reality" whatever they like, and mere "fantasy" whatever >they >don't. They rarely refer to something philosophically acceptable like the >Lacanian real vs. symbolic vs. imaginary... What I meant by "reality" was real life, whether from personal experience or in the observation of true events. I regard "fantasy" as fictional happenings. Ponder philosophy regarding reality versus fantasy as you see fit, but to me, the distinction between the two is quite clear. >>No amount of virtuosity can substitute for the spirit that is present >>when >>one _relates_ to a song. > >The problem is that alleged spirit is something that is talked about a >lot, >but which you can't hear in the music. In my not-quite-so-humble opinion, in truly great works of art, the emotions of the artist resonate with the audience. One does not have to be told that something is great when one experiences its greatness. In the case of music, the "alleged" spirit in the music is recognized when the listener hears it and has an emotional response. >Punk is a particularly bad case as >"the movement" largely has been a lifestyle thing. While people may focus on the lifestyle aspects of the Punk movement, let's not forget why the music from bands such as The Clash, The Police, Elvis Costello and the Attractions, among others is important: they packed a lot of power in a short time frame, whether you are talking about the length of their songs or the years until they disbanded. Their sound and their sentiments effectively engaged their audience, leaving indelible impressions that can be seen to this day. Thanks for reading! Electronically, Dom ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 04:07:23 -0500 (EST) From: "Dominic H. Kallas" To: The ytsejam mailing list Subject: Re: Punk, Prog, & somewhere in between.... Message-ID: Eric George wrote: > it's interesting what's been said about punk having all this >emotion, but prog having none. we've mentioned countless times how >someones tastes (i.e.- what "pops their turtle" musically) are unique to >each person. different music reaches different people. we all agree on >this. tell me dom, why the fuck doesn't that apply to the musicians that >write the stuff too?? to say that less emotion went into something, >simply because it technically is light-years beyond 3 & 4 chord, 3 minute >long punk songs is a statement of pure biased ignorance. so maybe it >doesn't pop your turtle?? doesn't mean any less emotion was put into the >music though, just because the guys that wrote it know more than just how >to spell "music theory". First, about popping my turtle, I should point out that: 1. I have never punched a turtle. 2. I have never shot a turtle, either. 3. I do not even have a turtle (i.e. the animal with the shell.) Seriously, there is Prog music that I like, and Prog music that I don't like. I just think there is more to quality music than the use of theory, and those who pay far more attention to structure than to spirit miss the point. That is _not_ to say that highly technical pieces of work can not be emotional (did I mention that 'Scenes from a Memory' is one of my favorite albums EVER?). Thanks for reading. Electronically, Dom ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 08:27:22 -0500 From: "Dan Costello" To: Subject: QR Message-ID: >The band members section on the official FW website (www.fateswarning.info) >has the greatest selection of rock mullets and perms I have ever seen in one >band. Ray is the only cool one, but he ruins the photo with his >faux-mystical pose. > >As for QR, I haven't heard any of their stuff. A mate of mine borrowed OM >from someone at his work, because the guy liked prog and my mate knew I >liked prog. But when I listened to it, it seemed just like 80's metal with >below-average sound, and I turned it off very quickly. What's the fuss >about? Any (preferably non-hardcore) QR fans want to give me a pointer or >two? oh boy. this could cause a stir. *dan runs for the bunker* -Dan. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 08:23:14 -0600 From: Michael & Pamela Nazer To: Subject: Re: I guess I know what I'm doing this summer... Message-ID: on 3/29/03 7:16 PM, Antony Gelberg at ag@antgel.co.uk wrote: > As for QR, I haven't heard any of their stuff. A mate of mine borrowed OM > from someone at his work, because the guy liked prog and my mate knew I > liked prog. But when I listened to it, it seemed just like 80's metal with > below-average sound, and I turned it off very quickly. What's the fuss > about? Any (preferably non-hardcore) QR fans want to give me a pointer or > two? > I like to listen to them every once in a while and I am not a hard-core QR fan so here are my 2 cents. I have...Empire, Operation Mindcrime, Hear in the now frontier, and their debut, Queensryche. My favoirtes are Empire and Operation Mind crime. My favorite tracks on Empire are The Thin Line and Empire. Pam ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 12:19:00 -0500 From: "Rob P" To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Styx Message-ID: Here, here. I agree. The new Styx is a great album, if you like Styx of course! I think many songs have a classic song without sounding dated. The vocals and harmonies are amazing. I think the song "These Are The Times" with JY on lead vocal is my favorite track. The song is so classic Styx sounding that it could be on "Equinox". Rob >From: James >Reply-To: ytsejam@torchsong.com >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: Re: Styx/Where are they now? >Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 21:45:13 -0800 (PST) > >Yes, I have heard it. Actually, (puts flame-proof suit >on) ut's pretty damn good. Some cheesy moments, but >overall, thier best in years, despite the absence of >DDY. I would recommend the song "Waiting For Our Time" >as the first song you listen to. Classic Styx style >with a heavy Damn Yankees edge to it.. > >Later, >James aka Roadie > > >-Anybody heard thier new one "Cyclorama"? Is it out >yet? > > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! >http://platinum.yahoo.com > >---YTSEJAM-FILTER: This message was posted using the YML command _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:35:53 +1000 From: "Niall Connaughton" To: Subject: RE: I guess I know what I'm doing this summer... Message-ID: Errg, Hear in the Now Frontier I place among the biggest wastes of $30... along with Platypus. O:M is good when I'm in the mood for it... > -----Original Message----- > From: ytsejam@torchsong.com [mailto:ytsejam@torchsong.com]On Behalf Of > Michael & Pamela Nazer > Sent: Monday, 31 March 2003 12:33 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: I guess I know what I'm doing this summer... > > > I like to listen to them every once in a while and I am not a hard-core QR > fan so here are my 2 cents. I have...Empire, Operation Mindcrime, Hear in > the now frontier, and their debut, Queensryche. My favoirtes are > Empire and > Operation Mind crime. My favorite tracks on Empire are > The Thin Line and Empire. > > Pam > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:44:19 +1000 From: "Karyn Hamilton" To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Sound good?? Message-ID: Aye...you guys can bitch about there not being any girls out there who like DT, but there aren't all that many prog guys[1] around either you know ;-) I'd love for some bloke to take me home and put on SFaM. In fact, I have a preposition; if one of you can persuade DT to come to Australia for a tour, it's a guaranteed date. ;-P -- Karyn [1] Single ones, leastaways. >Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 00:50:23 -0500 >From: Coldfire >To: ytsejam@torchsong.com >Subject: Re: Sound good?? and Re: Flamewar history >Message-ID: > >awww I'm really feeling the love..if only thru my DSL line ;) > >ya know..I wish I could find a guy that I could do that introduction to >music test with.......oh well > > >Coldie _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/hotmail_mobile.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:01:39 +1000 From: "Karyn Hamilton" To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Rant about Prog Message-ID: >Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 03:50:08 -0500 (EST) >From: "Dominic H. Kallas" >To: The ytsejam mailing list >Subject: Re: Rant about Prog >Message-ID: > >I do not dislike all Prog, but I can see why people cannot and will not >get it. It appears to me that prog is meant for the head, while other >music goes for the heart and the loins. Dude are you kidding? Prog not go for the heart? I think you're mistaking their intent. Just because prog songs tend not to be limited to lyrics like 'I love you so much, I hunger for your touch' or 'I hope you love me too, without you I feel blue' and 4/4 with three chords, doesn't mean they aren't there to stir emotion *as well as* provoking thought. One of the things I love about prog is the way that it takes more than one listen to understand the story behind each song, and it takes more than one listen to unravel all the vagaries behind the music itself. It never gets boring. There are songs we all listen to within this genre which awaken all kinds of emotions, so far beyond the greater realm of crud out there which has uninspiring music and reams of immature adolescent poetry. Coming as I do from a classical music background, I'm used to playing and listening to more complex and variable music. To me, prog is an adaption of the complexity normally reserved for orchestral compositions, with the cerebrality and feeling normally found in classical verse, coupled with the energy, rhythms and instruments of modern rock. It's more *interesting* than anything else. Of course, there's shitty prog wannabes around who don't manage the high level we expect from DT et al. Not all prog is great. But the good prog is the best thing I've ever heard, period. I've thought that ever since I was a little girl and I didn't even know it was called prog, listening to my dad's old-school seventies progrock. Being introduced to new-school prog was merely an expansion on my natural tastes. -- Karyn _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/hotmail_mobile.asp ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 6506 ************************** === Contributions to ytsejam: ytsejam@torchsong.com === === Send requests to: ytsejam-request@torchsong.com === === More information at: http://www.dreamt.org/local/ytsejam.php === === Brought by the ghost of ytsejam@arastar.coms past === === Reach the owner of this list at: ytsejam-owner@torchsong.com ===