YTSEJAM Digest 6293 Today's Topics: 1) Re: Radiohead by email_address_removed (Steve Chew) 2) Radiohead... by Chris Elder 3) RE: Radiohead by Brian Hansen 4) Re: Radiohead... by "Everonn" 5) Re: Radiohead... by Rick Audet 6) RE: Radiohead by Rick Audet 7) Re: "Classic Albums" by Heike =?iso-8859-1?Q?B=F6deker 8) Radiohead? Chomakey? OSI? by "Bruce Forst" 9) DT covering Rush by "Dominic H. Kallas" 10) RE: Radiohead by Eric George 11) DT to perform on CBS Morning show! by Andrew Coutermarsh 12) GEForce 2 by "Niall Connaughton" 13) Re: GEForce 2 by "Mike Shetzer" 14) RE: DT to perform on CBS Morning show! by "Todd O. Klindt" 15) Superior by Chris Elder 16) Re: Superior by Peter Geerts 17) RE: Superior by "Souter, Jan-Michael" 18) Dream Theater is Tool?!?! by Ryan P Skadberg ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:40:00 -0400 (EDT) From: email_address_removed (Steve Chew) To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Radiohead Message-ID: >> >> To me, DAFR and You go Now are WORLDS above any of his demos... >> some of the best music ive heard in recent times, right above there with >> Radiohead in my book! > >very well put carlos, but i need you to help me out with one thing, while >we're on the topic of no opinions being wrong. what is it about Radiohead >that is the cause of such "what-to-do"??? i never "got" what exactly it >was about them that was so phenominal. please, since it sounds like your >obviously a fan, don't take this as a slam on the band. rather, i'd love >it if you would give some recommendations as to a few good places in their >catalog that will show me the "greatness" of this band. if there's >something i overlooked during the few times i HAD heard them (very few >because i wasn't impressed, but kind of annoyed), then i'd like to know of >where better examples of their talent could be found. thanks man, and >here's to leaving an open mind. > I'm a fan of Radiohead but not a big one. Their songs are hit and miss for me. If you can, borrow "Amnesiac" from a friend and listen to "Packt like sardines in a crushd tin box" on a good stereo with the volume up. This song has a very electronic sound but creates an intense atmosphere that is amazing. It's the song that turned me on to Radiohead. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:03:37 -0500 From: Chris Elder To: Subject: Radiohead... Message-ID: > what is it about Radiohead > that is the cause of such "what-to-do"??? No offense to the fans but... I've wondered the same thing. The few songs I've heard made no impression on me whatsoever. A couple were down right awful. I think Radiohead suffers from the same thing new U2 suffers from, critics. One critic says that their new album is absolute genius and then 50 others have to say the same thing. Then the whole public see those reviews and then think oh, this is good(only because someone told them it was to begin with). And someone mentioned that there were a couple good songs on a couple of different albums. And? What about the other 12-14 tracks? That is not genius to me that is blind luck, with the aid of a few critics. You shouldn't have to go digging through multiple albums to find a few "decent" tracks at best to justify their "critic"al acclaim. Sorry. Rant over. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 10:38:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Hansen To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: RE: Radiohead Message-ID: "HJ Rivera" wrote: > I then went to OK Computer and discovered "Exit Music for a Film" > and "Karma Police," both of which drew me in further. If you want an introduction to Radiohead, listen to DT's Disappear... ;o) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:37:11 -0400 From: "Everonn" To: Subject: Re: Radiohead... Message-ID: <000401c24939$618b5540$message_id_removed> From: "Chris Elder" > No offense to the fans but... I think you're making some quick and unfair assumptions. I know there are a lot of people who really like most or all of Radiohead's music, and a lot of people who do see genius in their songs. It's one of those you-get-it-or-you-don't things, like most everything else. Some people are on that wavelength, some people just aren't...and it's not because some critic somewhere said it was good music. - Chris (not a huge Radiohead fan, but getting there) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 14:13:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Rick Audet To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Radiohead... Message-ID: > > what is it about Radiohead > > that is the cause of such "what-to-do"??? I didn't like Radiohead at first either. I heard "Creep" a long time ago and thought it was cool, but I never pursued them. Then I heard "Fake Plastic Trees" a couple years later and thought that too was a cool song, but once again never bothered to pursue them. And then a handful of people on here were commenting on "OK Computer" so I gave that one a listen and I found it boring and somewhat annoying. Finally, people on the Spock's Beard list were whining about Radiohead's newest album, "Kid A," and how it was such a departure from their previous that and how it sucks and so on... so I decided to try an experiment: There was so much stink about how bad this album was that I picked up a new copy and listened to it. Then I listened to it again. And again. I wanted to really digest it before making a decision on what I thought about it, unlike the fact that I gave "OK Computer" all of one listen before deciding I didn't like it. After about 7 or 8 listens, I realized I really liked it. So I went back and picked up "OK Computer" and "The Bends" and found I really like those too. And then "Amnesiac" came out and I picked up that one too, but it took about as long for me to digest as did "Kid A." But I can't blame anyone here for not liking them. They don't sound anything like Dream Theater. If you're already somewhat of a fan, check out their DVD "Meeting People Is Easy." It's neato. Rick Audet San Francisco ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 14:22:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Rick Audet To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: Radiohead Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Brian Hansen wrote: > If you want an introduction to Radiohead, listen to > DT's Disappear... ;o) Oh right, good point. I had forgotten about that. Also, there's a spot in "Beyond This Life" that is in the style of Radiohead. Check out 2:25 through 3:09, and then its variant at 4:48 through 6:05. So yeah, although Radiohead doesn't sound anything like Dream Theater, sometimes Dream Theater sounds a bit like Radiohead. Not that that's any reason to like Radiohead or anything. Rick Audet San Francisco ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 20:18:28 +0200 From: Heike =?iso-8859-1?Q?B=F6deker To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: "Classic Albums" Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020821194137.009feec0@message_id_removed.de> At 09:11 21.08.02 -0700, ytsejam@torchsong.com wrote: >... >From: "Brian Thomson" >To: ytsejam@torchsong.com .. >I previously wrote wondering whether DT might tackle a King Crimson >"classic album" in the London Astoria gigs in October. I agree that it's >unlikely that DT fans would appreciate "Da Crim", but i think Red would be >a good bet Yeah, it's probably the heaviest they've ever done (besides "USA", the live album released a few months later). Although from the kind of songwriting "Discipline" could be quite neat, too (and a nice opportunity for Myung to play stick ;-)). >I can point out two major problems with DT covering a Progressive album: >1) the very Englishness of the whole scene. Probably applying more to older works. Also, just staying with Fripp, after the first split of KC he lived in NYC, which especially influenced his solo album "Exposure" (also another idea...), and also the next reformation with Belew and Levin didn't sound British at all. >Can you imagine LaBrie trying to do Genesis' "I Know What I Like" >or something from Gong? Actually, they were France- and Mallorca-based, Daevid Allen was from down under, though having connections to the Canterbury scene. My problem with the idea is I can't really fancy DT mutating into a bunch of Pot Head Pixies performing the Radio Gnome Trilogy (which is mostly miserably cheesy with the exception of not even a handful of songs like "Master Builder"). Musically, of course, after Allen had quit, Pierre Moerlen's Gong (starting with "Shamal" and "Gazeuse" still released as Gong) was one of the most interesting fusion bands of their time, but this stuff would be quite extravagant for DT to cover. There's lots of odd time signatures ("Crosscurrents" probably being the most interesting shifting from 7/4 to 7/8) and some of the stuff also is heavy like shit ("Heavy Tune", "Esnuria" etc.), but the harmonies definitely have "jazzy" written all over. Another problem is the personal instrumental styles of Moerlen vs. Portnoy as well as Rowe vs. Myung are extremely divergent, despite the fact, if viewed as a challenge to come up with an interesting reinterpretation rather than "just a cover" this is the point where it could get interesting... Best, Heike ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 14:45:47 -0500 From: "Bruce Forst" To: Subject: Radiohead? Chomakey? OSI? Message-ID: <000701c2494b$5a677660$d64dea43@oemcomputer> short radiohead testimonial: their music... ....it appeals to me in so many ways, its experimental without becoming cheesy and obvious, which is really inspirational. There are things tucked away in the sound carefully placed there and artfully done, like a slightly distorted organ accenting the strums of a clean accoustic guitar for a couple of measures only. PLus i love their willingness to drag out any sound they need to make their songs happen. You dont hear enough of that in music if you ask me. Most bands quite simply dont have the time or budgets to really explore the depths of their songs like they need to before they are set to record. Other bands place stylistic or other mental obstacles in the way of making the songs they want and many times that comes across in the recordings. bands that take that extra step get my respect. one of the reasons I love DT is their willingness to try new things and grow as musicians. Chromakey: I like it all. Not heavy metal, just interesting songs. Bruce PS, I thought the Office of Strategic Influence was the proposed agency to disseminate PR propaganda to other nations for the sake of building a US "brand identity". It was quickly scraped when there was an outcry over an agency that would engage in planting news stories in foreign papers and create fake news press releases to promote the governments agenda abroad. For obvious reasons people suspected an agency that would at times lie about what we are doing. (runs to go reread 1984) > very well put carlos, but i need you to help me out with one thing, while > we're on the topic of no opinions being wrong. what is it about Radiohead > that is the cause of such "what-to-do"??? i never "got" what exactly it > was about them that was so phenominal. please, since it sounds like your > obviously a fan, don't take this as a slam on the band. rather, i'd love > it if you would give some recommendations as to a few good places in their > catalog that will show me the "greatness" of this band. if there's > something i overlooked during the few times i HAD heard them (very few > because i wasn't impressed, but kind of annoyed), then i'd like to know of > where better examples of their talent could be found. thanks man, and > here's to leaving an open mind. > -eric ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 16:10:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dominic H. Kallas" To: The ytsejam mailing list Subject: DT covering Rush Message-ID: In response to the suggestions for classic albums that DT should cover live, I would like to suggest these Rush albums: 'Hemispheres' 'Grace Under Pressure' 'Vapor Trails' The last one might be a challenge because there are no keyboards, but I'm sure that Jordan will find a way to work around it, just like he did with 'Master of Puppets.' By the way, I suggested 'Vapor Trails' because I am sure that DT could do an awesome cover of "Vapor Trail." Thanks for reading! Electronically, Dom PS. Cheers to the guy who suggested that DT should cover Bruce Springsteen's 'Born To Run.' I actually thought of that, too; freaky, eh? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 21:11:07 +0000 (UTC) From: Eric George To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: Radiohead Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Brian Hansen wrote: > "HJ Rivera" wrote: > > > I then went to OK Computer and discovered "Exit > Music for a Film" > > and "Karma Police," both of which drew me in > further. > > If you want an introduction to Radiohead, listen to > DT's Disappear... ;o) yeah, the only difference is that james doesn't sound like he's eternally whining because his mommy didn't push him enough on the swings when he was a child. DT & radiohead: not a good comparison. sorry, i'm done now...... -eric -- "The least important things in life get the most appreciation. The most important things in life don't seem to get enough." -me IM screename: Ryften13 email_address_removed (text-based email) email_address_removed -or- email_address_removed (HTML-based email) SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org Progressive Musician's Forum - http://www0.org/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi#general ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 17:27:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew Coutermarsh To: ytsejam@torchsong.com, Subject: DT to perform on CBS Morning show! Message-ID: It's true: Check this out: http://www.elektra.com/elektra/dreamtheater/news.jhtml?qt=%22Dream+Theater%22 Apparently DT is performing on the CBS Morning show September 14th. No word as of what they'll be performing, but it's confirmed! Only weird thing about it is that it's a Saturday morning.... ------------------------------------------------- Andrew Coutermarsh - http://cout.dhs.org/ email_address_removed ------------------------------------------------- It's my personal contention that guns cause crime the way video cameras cause porn. ------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:54:14 +1000 From: "Niall Connaughton" To: Subject: GEForce 2 Message-ID: > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:00:43 -0400 (EDT) > From: Andrew Coutermarsh > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: puter question > Message-ID: > > On Mon, 19 Aug 2002, Mike Shetzer wrote: > > > Hey all. Question for the techies... I'm interested in expanding my > > gaming capabilities for obvious reasons. I have a Geforce 2 MX 400 which > > performs well but obviously is too outdated to play many games at more > > than 8-10 fps. > > The best thing you could do is not to buy a new video card, but upgrade > your motherboard and processor. The GeForce2 is a card that requires you > to have extra CPU power in order to work at high speeds, and if your > processor is spending so much time trying to run the program, > there aren't > any cycles left to give to the graphics card. I noticed this happen when > I tried to play Medal of Honor: Allied Assault. The funny thing about it > was that I could play the game at ANY resolution or detail depth and the > speed was the same. This showed me that my puny little GeForce2 > Pro could > have handled whatever it had had thrown at it, but my CPU was failing to > free itself up for the graphics card. > > I don't think that you would see a HUGE increase in speed--you'd probably > see a slight or perhaps even marginal increase, and it's always a good > idea to keep your hardward updated, but the best thing you could do for > yourself is to upgrade to a stronger processor. This is not the case. All graphics cards require the CPU to order them around, of course, so CPU speed is never going to be fully removed as an issue. However, the level of independence the graphics card receives from the CPU is dependent upon how the game is coded, not whether it's a GEForce 2 or not :P The "there aren't any cycles left to give to the graphics card" demonstrates this. If the CPU needs a lot of cycles to talk to the graphics card, then the game is designed poorly. Look at the difference between the performance of Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament... and Quake 3 looks better to me. When I bought my current computer (a P3 667 with a GF2 GTS), my friends bought 933s with GF2 MXs. Their CPU is almost 50% faster than mine. But the results in Q3 were strongly tipped in my favour. On some level we were benchmarking, mine scored 80fps, theirs scored 40. In general, games work by having almost all of the graphics processing (which is the lion's share of the program's processing) occur in parallel on the graphics card, while the CPU does the AI and game mechanics, etc. This is why you see more benefit from improving the graphics card instead of the CPU. Of course, it's a bit of a waste of a GF4 Ti if you're running it on a low end P3 :P ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 21:31:20 -0400 From: "Mike Shetzer" To: Subject: Re: GEForce 2 Message-ID: <000c01c2497b$9fbc0660$ece0ca18@user> I know... i have an Athlon 1.4 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Niall Connaughton" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 7:00 PM Subject: GEForce 2 > > ------------------------------ > > > > Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:00:43 -0400 (EDT) > > From: Andrew Coutermarsh > > To: Multiple recipients of list > > Subject: Re: puter question > > Message-ID: > > > > On Mon, 19 Aug 2002, Mike Shetzer wrote: > > > > > Hey all. Question for the techies... I'm interested in expanding my > > > gaming capabilities for obvious reasons. I have a Geforce 2 MX 400 which > > > performs well but obviously is too outdated to play many games at more > > > than 8-10 fps. > > > > The best thing you could do is not to buy a new video card, but upgrade > > your motherboard and processor. The GeForce2 is a card that requires you > > to have extra CPU power in order to work at high speeds, and if your > > processor is spending so much time trying to run the program, > > there aren't > > any cycles left to give to the graphics card. I noticed this happen when > > I tried to play Medal of Honor: Allied Assault. The funny thing about it > > was that I could play the game at ANY resolution or detail depth and the > > speed was the same. This showed me that my puny little GeForce2 > > Pro could > > have handled whatever it had had thrown at it, but my CPU was failing to > > free itself up for the graphics card. > > > > I don't think that you would see a HUGE increase in speed--you'd probably > > see a slight or perhaps even marginal increase, and it's always a good > > idea to keep your hardward updated, but the best thing you could do for > > yourself is to upgrade to a stronger processor. > > > This is not the case. All graphics cards require the CPU to order them > around, of course, so CPU speed is never going to be fully removed as an > issue. However, the level of independence the graphics card receives from > the CPU is dependent upon how the game is coded, not whether it's a GEForce > 2 or not :P > > The "there aren't any cycles left to give to the graphics card" demonstrates > this. If the CPU needs a lot of cycles to talk to the graphics card, then > the game is designed poorly. Look at the difference between the performance > of Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament... and Quake 3 looks better to me. > > When I bought my current computer (a P3 667 with a GF2 GTS), my friends > bought 933s with GF2 MXs. Their CPU is almost 50% faster than mine. But the > results in Q3 were strongly tipped in my favour. On some level we were > benchmarking, mine scored 80fps, theirs scored 40. > > In general, games work by having almost all of the graphics processing > (which is the lion's share of the program's processing) occur in parallel on > the graphics card, while the CPU does the AI and game mechanics, etc. This > is why you see more benefit from improving the graphics card instead of the > CPU. > > Of course, it's a bit of a waste of a GF4 Ti if you're running it on a low > end P3 :P > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 22:02:19 -0500 From: "Todd O. Klindt" To: Subject: RE: DT to perform on CBS Morning show! Message-ID: <05b101c24988$545dab80$message_id_removed> I've put it in my TiVo. tk -----Original Message----- From: ytsejam@torchsong.com [mailto:ytsejam@torchsong.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Coutermarsh Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 4:44 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: DT to perform on CBS Morning show! It's true: Check this out: http://www.elektra.com/elektra/dreamtheater/news.jhtml?qt=%22Dream+Theat er%22 Apparently DT is performing on the CBS Morning show September 14th. No word as of what they'll be performing, but it's confirmed! Only weird thing about it is that it's a Saturday morning.... ------------------------------------------------- Andrew Coutermarsh - http://cout.dhs.org/ email_address_removed ------------------------------------------------- It's my personal contention that guns cause crime the way video cameras cause porn. ------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 01:06:41 -0500 From: Chris Elder To: Subject: Superior Message-ID: Does anyone have any of these CDs they want to get rid of? I want to try them out but no stores around me sell them, and online they are $16 before $3-$4 shipping. And $20 CDs have never been cool in my book. My last $20+ CD was Symphony X- "Twilight in Olympus". I should have saved the time and flushed the money down the toilet. What a crap CD. So since then I have been a little sour on spending that much. Superior Zero Hour Spiral Architect All that I Bleed Any other bands I should check out? Email me if you have one you want to sell. I also have a few I want to get rid of if anyone wants to trade. Chroma Key - Dead Air... Mulmuzzler 2 Helloween - Better than Raw Derek Sherinian - Planet X Platypus Chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 00:58:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Geerts To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Superior Message-ID: --- Chris Elder wrote: > CD was Symphony X- "Twilight in Olympus". I should have saved the > time and > flushed the money down the toilet. What a crap CD. So since then I > have > been a little sour on spending that much. Well, if you didn't like Twilight I doubt you'd like any of the Superior disks. I mean, not that it's the same style, but both are heavy rocking, creatively top notch, excellently produced and generally ass-kicking cd's. Apparently you're not into that. Then again, it's hard to tell what you *do* like in music just by analysing your rather brief assessment of Twilight's qualities :-). Anyway, regarding the price, could it be that you paid that much for Twilight, and would pay that much for Superior etc. due to the fact that you're purchasing import cd's? Here in Europe prices *are* higher (apparently Japan is even worse) and the shipping adds up to that too. I hear that SX got a distribution deal in the US now though, so I'm happy for our North-American friends. Anyway, question: *why* do cd prices differ between continents? (taxes? market value i.e. Europeans are *willing* to pay more? (I know I'm not)) Cheers Peter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:48:41 -0500 From: "Souter, Jan-Michael" To: "'ytsejam@torchsong.com'" Subject: RE: Superior Message-ID: Any money spent on Superior CDs is NOT money wasted. Excellent choice. Get all three of Superior's catalog !! Zero Hour is good stuff, too. JM -----Original Message----- From: Chris Elder [mailto:email_address_removed Does anyone have any of these CDs they want to get rid of? I want to try them out but no stores around me sell them, and online they are $16 before $3-$4 shipping. And $20 CDs have never been cool in my book. My last $20+ CD was Symphony X- "Twilight in Olympus". I should have saved the time and flushed the money down the toilet. What a crap CD. So since then I have been a little sour on spending that much. Chris ------------------------------ Date: 22 Aug 2002 10:36:51 -0400 From: Ryan P Skadberg To: Ytsejam Mailing List Subject: Dream Theater is Tool?!?! Message-ID: Theory Number 2 :) http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/music/live/documents/02401757.htm Skadz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ryan P Skadberg E: email_address_removed Director of Technology U: http://www.mindstorm.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- GPG fingerprint = 0B97 F771 E7D2 69B2 FF5C 5693 4E25 7E77 DEF0 CA4B ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 6293 ************************** === Contributions to ytsejam: ytsejam@torchsong.com === === Send requests to: ytsejam-request@torchsong.com === === Brought by the ghost of ytsejam@arastar.coms past === === Reach the owner of this list at: ytsejam-owner@torchsong.com ===