YTSEJAM Digest 6101 Today's Topics: 1) DT's new cd... by email_address_removed 2) Re: Silly sound-alikes... by email_address_removed (Steve Chew) 3) Vocal Melodies... by email_address_removed (Steve Chew) 4) Solitary Shell Rip Off...NOT!!! by Bill Cahill 5) New DT Videos? by "Kevin Hammer" 6) Myung & Moore by "Dr. Scott Mosher" 7) Re: Solitary Shell Rip Off...NOT!!! by "Rob Pociluk" 8) Re: DT's new cd... by "Rob Pociluk" 9) Do we WANT DT on MTV? by Dave Peterson 10) Re: Do we WANT DT on MTV? by "Dave Schott" 11) Re: Do we WANT DT on MTV? by "Gary M. Gettier" 12) Re: New DT Videos? by Eric George 13) well,well DT Hamburg review, outrage, Star Wars by Sebastian Keil 14) Re: Do we WANT DT on MTV? by email_address_removed 15) Re: Vocal Melodies... by Ilia ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 23:20:05 EST From: email_address_removed To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: DT's new cd... Message-ID: Didn't DT say something about not being able to top SFaM...and that they weren't even going to try and do so? They're just playing and they're darn good! Who cares if a riff here and there sounds similar to something else? Oh no! Come on people...how many musicians are there out there, huh? Something can sound similar to something else and not mean that they're copying...there are only so many notes that one can play with an instrument. Geez...it's DT, they're freaking amazing as it is! What other music sounds as cool as this stuff? There isn't much...let me tell you. I think the cd is really good...it has some weak points...but isn't that the point in this? If it were perfect, what would they have to improve upon in their next album? We'd all get bored with it if it were so. So stop picking at it and start loving it. It's a great cd...and quite long...6 songs maybe...but it's nearly 100 minutes of music. Good deal I think. Later Julie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 03:19:59 -0500 (EST) From: email_address_removed (Steve Chew) To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Silly sound-alikes... Message-ID: > >> YES!! Solitary Shell comes from Peter Gabriel. And The Great Debate takes >> its riffs from the same Tool song that HOME did!! And there's a lot >> more. Sometimes it's good to have influences and reshape some other band's >> material, but it's obvious on this CD that a lot of music was taken, AND >> IT STICKS OUT TOO MUCH in some places!! >> >well, i don't really have a gripe about being able to take note of the >bands influences as is reflected in their songs, but i just thought that >for those of you that do, you should at least know that the Tool riff used >in "Home" was from the song "Forty-six & two" from Aenima. The Tool riff >used in "The Great Debate" however, is from the song "Sober" from >Undertow. Both are undoubtedly Tool riffs slightly revamped, but they are >deffinetly from two sepperate Tool songs. Thought you should at least >have the facts straight. :) > While Solitary Shell is vaguely reminiscent of Solisbury Hill by Peter Gabriel, I doubt it was based on it. Take a listen to them side by side, they have similar aspects but aren't the same. While we're on amusing comparisons, the beginning of Misunderstood sounds vaguely (very vaguely) like part of the start of Thank You by Led Zeppelin. :) Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 03:52:44 -0500 (EST) From: email_address_removed (Steve Chew) To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Vocal Melodies... Message-ID: OK, I'll preface this by saying I like 6DoiT -- especially Glass Prison and Misunderstood. So, don't kill me... ;-) Does anyone else feel that Dream Theater's vocal melodies have gone downhill lately? Vocals are very important to me and I like to see them have a strong melodic influence. One of the things I love about Images and Words and Awake are the wonderful vocal melodies that fit tightly with the music. See songs like Learning to Live, Pull Me Under, Take the Time, Voices, Space Dye Vest, etc... I just don't get into the vocal melodies as much with the more recent DT CDs, especially SfaM and now 6DoiT, but probably starting with FII. I thought that maybe I was just more familiar and comfortable with the older tunes since I heard them first so I put all the DT CDs into the changer and listened again. There was still something about the vocal delivery during the earlier CDs that I prefer. A lot of the SfaM vocals seemed a bit stilted to me but I always put it down to the play-like lyrics. But, after hearing 6DoiT I think that it's more than that. Don't get me wrong -- I still like many of the vocals -- but it seems that they're not quite up to par with the earlier albums. On the other hand, I do like how LaBrie varies his singing style more these days with some harsher delivery mixed in with his classic operatic style. I'm not sure that it's any single aspect of the vocals that troubles me. But, while listening to them all again I noticed that the more recent vocals seemed to have a more disjointed delivery. Often, you'll find that each line of the lyrics is delivered independently of the next one, with a pause between them. It gives the singing something of a spoken quality. Not all the time mind you, but often. Many of the older songs would use that style occasionally but would also consist of longer melodic lines delivered in a fluid style. The vocals would also be more tightly integrated into the music, rather than almost chanting over it in the more recent songs. I find that I prefer the fluid style and that small change makes a big difference to me in the feel of the song. Actually, I'm not even sure that's the real difference, since there are exceptions that I could point to on every album. For example, I think that Misunderstood is a return to the older fluid vocal style with longer melodic lines and blending with the music (and I like it). But, it's the only thing that I could positively identify. Am I crazy? Does anyone else feel similarly about the vocal delivery? :-) Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 03:09:02 -0500 From: Bill Cahill To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Solitary Shell Rip Off...NOT!!! Message-ID: <00e601c1ac8a$0b19f780$6501a8c0@ftpserver> If so many different people are hearing it (I recognized it immediately being a Gabriel fan), how can you deny it? > Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 14:21:59 -0500 > From: "Rob Pociluk" > To: ytsejam@torchsong.com > Subject: Re: Solitary Shell Rip Off...NOT!!! > Message-ID: > > Sorry folks, just because a song has an acoustic guitar intro with a bass drum...doesn't make it a ripoff nor does it actually SOUND > like Solsbury Hill. To sit and dissect this song or the Great Debate like this seems pretty damn silly. I thought you guys liked DT. > Lighten up! It's just music!!! This is not rocket science here. :) > > Rob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 11:40:53 -0500 From: "Kevin Hammer" To: Subject: New DT Videos? Message-ID: I thought of something yesterday, so here goes.... In order for a band to become really successful, they have to be on MTV In order to get on MTV, you have to first, sound like the other bands on MTV (which for the first time since PMU, DT actually does!) and secon, have a high quality music video Now the tricky part...... In order to have a high quality music video, you have to NOT LET MIKE PORTNOY MAKE THE VIDEO! Mike seams to have taken control of just about everything in the band (and is doing a good job at it). I liked what he did with the live DVD, but if they put out another crap video like the ones from FII or Awake (actually, Lie was pretty cool, but Silent Man was pretty bad too) they'll never make it into regular rotation. Their live DVD and CD set and their new CD have been selling a lot more than the label probably expected, so now they have the extra leverage to either A: get the label to a hire high quality video director and crew, have a great video, be on MTV all the time which will lead to being on the radio, which will lead to DT finally getting the attention they deserve, or B: let Mike make the video, which will probably be lame, and either get played very rarely or not at all, and it's back to obscurity for the guys. Just my thought, anyone else? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 12:11:46 -0500 From: "Dr. Scott Mosher" To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Myung & Moore Message-ID: Well, that's a strong statement, MR. Rob Newcombe, but I tend to somewhat agree. Portnoy/Pertrucci's material tend to fall into the more theatrical, melodramatic arena, that I can take or leave (although, undoubtably, they have written some GREAT songs, and some great lyrics, don't mistake my opinion for otherwise), MYung and Moore, tend to fall in the slightly more abstraction, emotionally impressionistic and eccentric stage. James just writes lyrics, and generally, 0-2 songs per disc (see FII). I guess since all song music is now credited to 'Myung/Petrucci/Portnoy/Rudess', LaBrie is allowed more lyrical freedom and input? Well, I just GOT the CD, so into the player it goes. No preconceived notions other than I'm sure it's atleast GOOD. Scott VIRTUALITY: http://www.theambientmind.com/virtuality ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 13:30:49 -0500 From: "Rob Pociluk" To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Solitary Shell Rip Off...NOT!!! Message-ID: <> Well Bill, for starters...the CHORDS are all different! As I said, using an acoustic guitar and a bass drum does not make them the same. As far as "so many different people" hearing the same thing, too many people on here are always ripping apart everything these guys do! I mean, Mike could rip a fart in a song and it'd get analyzed to death! I've been on this list since 1993 or so and this stuff gets worse all the time. It's one thing to review stuff, but this is silly. I needed to vent. I am done venting. Rob Dream Theater : The Official Site - http://www.dreamtheater.net/ ____________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE Web and POP E-mail Service in 14 languages at http://www.zzn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 13:35:50 -0500 From: "Rob Pociluk" To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: DT's new cd... Message-ID: Julie, I totally agree. Couldn't have said it better myself!!! Rob ---- Begin Original Message ---- From: email_address_removed Sent: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 20:29:13 -0800 (PST) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: DT's new cd... Didn't DT say something about not being able to top SFaM...and that they weren't even going to try and do so? They're just playing and they're darn good! Who cares if a riff here and there sounds similar to something else? Oh no! Come on people...how many musicians are there out there, huh? Something can sound similar to something else and not mean that they're copying...there are only so many notes that one can play with an instrument. Geez...it's DT, they're freaking amazing as it is! What other music sounds as cool as this stuff? There isn't much...let me tell you. I think the cd is really good...it has some weak points...but isn't that the point in this? If it were perfect, what would they have to improve upon in their next album? We'd all get bored with it if it were so. So stop picking at it and start loving it. It's a great cd...and quite long...6 songs maybe...but it's nearly 100 minutes of music. Good deal I think. Later Julie ---- End Original Message ---- Dream Theater : The Official Site - http://www.dreamtheater.net/ ____________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE Web and POP E-mail Service in 14 languages at http://www.zzn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 11:49:58 -0800 (PST) From: Dave Peterson To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Do we WANT DT on MTV? Message-ID: Every album that's put out, people always have to be saying "If we pummel MTV with requests for it, blah blah blah, they'll be famous!" Really, guys... Do you HONESTLY think the public would want to see DT on MTV? Just because it's a little heaver this time around, doesn't mean that it has anything at all to do with the popular stuff that's on the radio/MTV right now. Dream Theater is and will always be progressive metal. The mass public DOES NOT LIKE progressive metal. Trust me on this. To most people, Jame's vocals are pure "80's crap". Why? Because NO BAND on the radio right now has a pure classically trained melodic male singer. That's just the way things are right now. I'm saying this because I wish DT fans would just be happy with the fact that DT is the best progressive metal band in the world! They're not starving, guys. They've been doing this for a long time and will continue to make decent money. They don't need popularity (and artistically don't want it). I have no doubt they're MUCH happier with themselves these days because they can make that 40-minute epic and the label really doesn't care because it knows they're not trying for MTV. They're trying for their perfectly legitimate target audience: prog-metal fans. There's money to be made there too, ya know! If DT was on the radio, we'd get the 3:30 version with all the cool stuff cut out. THAT'S NOT WHAT DT IS ABOUT!!! DT fans want it all left in! That's why DT and MTV (and radio) just don't work. Another reason DT shouldn't be on MTV... Their videos SUCK!!! If they honestly want to make a dent in the MTV/VH1 market (bad idea) they had better hire a professional video director who knows what the hell to do to make them look good. MTV also won't take them because these guys aren't spring chickens anymore! MTV requires beauty first, talent second. Name an ugly or old band on MTV right now. Again, not happening. The VERY MOST you can hope for is to see a glimpse of them on VH1's new rock show (name?) with Sebastian Bach as the host. Haven't seen it yet, but you know Sebastian sees DT for who they are - a prog-metal band. (Don't forget Sebastian worked with Portnoy (Porntoy) on the Working Man Rush Tribute) Anyway, I assume most people reading this are thinking "Well, yeah! Duh!" I'm just trying to get through to the young impressionable youth on the list that REQUIRES their favorite bands to be on MTV. Let it go. MTV would do nothing but SPOIL the prog-metal community. Be GLAD they aren't poisoned by eMpTyV's filth. Later! - Dr. Teeth __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 15:00:43 -0500 From: "Dave Schott" To: Subject: Re: Do we WANT DT on MTV? Message-ID: <005501c1aced$879ca060$0100a8c0@dave> I'm seventeen. I agree. Of course I don't watch TV (to quote JR). Music is good. eMpTyV is bad. Death Is The First Dancing Turtle -AdmiralDave (email_address_removed) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 15:06:08 -0500 From: "Gary M. Gettier" To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Do we WANT DT on MTV? Message-ID: Dave Peterson wrote: > > The VERY MOST you can hope for is to see a glimpse of them on VH1's new > rock show (name?) with Sebastian Bach as the host. Haven't seen it > yet, but you know Sebastian sees DT for who they are - a prog-metal > band. (Don't forget Sebastian worked with Portnoy (Porntoy) on the > Working Man Rush Tribute) I saw the show this week. Half of it was Bach and Slash (GNR) goofing off. There were maybe 7 videos played, GNR, Skid Row, Puddle of Mudd, P.O.D. and nothing else you haven't seen in the past or in the regular rotation. Gary -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gary M. Gettier email_address_removed "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 23:00:18 +0000 (UTC) From: Eric George To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: New DT Videos? Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Feb 2002, Kevin Hammer wrote: > Mike seams to have taken control of just about everything in the band (and > is doing a good job at it). I liked what he did with the live DVD, but if > they put out another crap video like the ones from FII or Awake (actually, > Lie was pretty cool, but Silent Man was pretty bad too) they'll never make > it into regular rotation. very good observation on the video thing, but i have one exception to throw into the mix. now, regardless of what a lot of people may think about the song itself *prepares for flaming to commence*, but the video for "Hollow Years" is a quality video, especially as far as the standards for MTV or VH1 go. It's got a very strong R.E.M. "Everybody Hurts" feel about it, which if you all remember that video's rotation was very heavy when it came out. There have been several others also more recently that use the similar elements to "Hollow Years", so if the band happened to go more that route, who knows. Personally, a video in the vein of Nickelback, Creed, Linkin Park, or Disturbed could deffinetly fit the style of this new album. here's hoping something is in the works!!! fingers crossed, eric -- "The least important things in life seem to get the most appreciation. The most important things in life don't seem to get enough." -me email_address_removed IM screename - Ryften13 SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 00:30:19 +0100 From: Sebastian Keil To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: well,well DT Hamburg review, outrage, Star Wars Message-ID: hi there, just got back,from the show, and since I refuse to go to the MP forum, here's (ar) my 2 cents (in Euro): The setlistas far as I remember: Glass Prison 6:00 Strange Deja Vu Surrounded AnotherHand-Killling Hand Misunderstood Burning My Soul/with Hells Kitchen Great Debate Peruvian Skies Lie Pull me Under ------- Home Spirit Carries in Take the Time Alright, fist things first: my girlfriend went along for the first time and just couldn't believe how diverse the audience was and how much DT was appreciated. She kinda thought only Robbie Williams would be able to command a crowd like DT did. She like d it mostly. As you can see, a very diverse setlist, which was cool. However, you'll notice that no part of the SONG 6doit was performed, not even SS which I dig, like so many other, very much. Bummer. BMS with HK didn't work for me. One thing which I don't like about the first disc that much (yet?) became apparent live: the songs, especcially the endings are very moody and took alot of energy out of the show IMHO. James had a tough start, but never gave up and ended up just fine, tight, really good. Personally, I could do withot MP's shades, but JR did some extra mileage, circling that little keyboard stand of his. Somebody mentioned JR's new hairdo, I think it looks like Eric Clapton in the late 80s, early 90s. Hearing 6:00 liveagain was a rare treat, also TTT and surrounded. TSCO still gives me the creeps. NEGATIVE: I never minded paying 20 bucks for a shirt, I like to support OFB whereever I can, that was in DeutschMarks about 40. Now we have a new currency which is worth twice as much, so not 2 Marks=$1, but about 1 Euro= $1. However, Shirts started at $30!!! That's an outrage, $ 80 for the hooded top, hello!!! They just took the old prices and the new currency. To quote old Luke: "Mike, You Ask The Impossible" That has to be a mistake and I am pissed, cause I can live to long on $30 and , sorry, can't afford that. I hate to say it, but IMHO that is rip-off, I'd go cheaper ordering it online.... Anyway, the show was great rare treat these times, keep on rocking guys. sab -- If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything! ______________________________________________________________________________ Die Nummer, die man nie vergisst: Ihre persvnliche Wunschrufnummer von WEB.DE! Jetzt einsteigen http://freemail.web.de ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 20:47:12 EST From: email_address_removed To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Do we WANT DT on MTV? Message-ID: --part1_d4.1291916c.298f4220_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" i have seen them play Rush videos every so often on that show on vh1 Andrew --part1_d4.1291916c.298f4220_boundary ---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 17:58:37 -0800 (PST) From: Ilia To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Vocal Melodies... Message-ID: I've noticed no such downstep. I think there are some wonderful melodies throughout the album, and the ones that are disjointed don't appear any more than they did on their previous releases. Which specific tracks/parts of songs were you referring to? - Ilia. http://www.44lbs.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! 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