YTSEJAM Digest 5871 Today's Topics: 1) fan club rants by Chris Elder 2) Live Bitch by "Christopher W. Ptacek" 3) questions with regards to the debate on the 3CD set by Scott Hansen 4) Re: questions with regards to the debate on the 3CD set by Damon Fibraio 5) Re: questions with regards to the debate on the 3CD set by "Paul Tadday" 6) Re: Soilwork by Graham Boyle 7) 3CD set by "Dr. Mosh" 8) Re: 3CD set by Graham Boyle 9) Setlists by Simon Dodd 10) Re: Soilwork by email_address_removed.tr 11) Re: Soilwork by "hitomi iwai" 12) Re: fan club rants by "Rob Pociluk" 13) live again by rob denni 14) live3CD vs. DVD by Joshua Rasiel 15) Re: live3CD vs. DVD by "A_Change Of_Seasons" 16) Re: fan club rants by Andreas Skarin 17) Live CD by "Ivan Navarro" 18) Re: live3CD vs. DVD by Andrew Coutermarsh 19) Question about the upcoming live CDs by "Matthew Tedesco" 20) Re: Triple live by Eric George 21) re: Live DT album by Brian Hansen 22) G3 Tix for DC go on sale 6/8 by "Ivan Navarro" 23) Re: Question about the upcoming live CDs by Andrew Coutermarsh 24) Re: Question about the upcoming live CDs by "Carlos A. Alfaro" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 01:51:30 -0600 From: Chris Elder To: Subject: fan club rants Message-ID: on 6/3/01 11:01 PM, ytsejam@torchsong.com at ytsejam@torchsong.com wrote: > With all due respect, you didn't pay $25 on a "a > fan club CD with 10 tracks from > various live shows throughout the tour". Correct > me if I'm wrong , but as a > member of the DTIFC you paid absolutely NOTHING > for "a fan club CD with 10 > tracks from various live shows throughout the > tour". The Xmas CD is absolutely > free when you subscribe to the ToD fanzines, > remember? Wrong I subscribed to the club for a $25 CD and 4 free fanzines. I'm not ashamed to admit it, I'M IN IT FOR THE CD!!! I'm sure I'm not the only one. I'm a Dream Theater fan. I am in it for the MUSIC, not a nice picture and article about a stop on the tour. Be honest, who wants to read about a show that they didn't go to unless it is the first or last show of the tour? How about reading reviews of 21 different shows? Yep, that is how many have been in the fanzine since I subscribed. 5 issues. How about a CD recommendation section that has nothing to do with DT? I will support the band in any way I can, and yes, I'll get the new 3 disc set, but I don't think the fanclub is where it is at. Without the CD they have nothing but some concert reviews and an exclusive interview every 3 months. Hardly worth $6.25 an issue. Maybe $2.50 on the high side. If Mike releases new Fan CDs off the DT site, I would be first in cyber-line to buy a copy, no qualms there. I just forsee a downslide of the fanclub. Don't get me wrong, it is all appreciated, I know it is a lot of hard work, I just don't think it will be worth $6.25 an issue w/o the yearly CD. just my on damn opinion, -corvin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 01:17:07 -0500 From: "Christopher W. Ptacek" To: Subject: Live Bitch Message-ID: <001001c0ecbe$3397c660$message_id_removed> First off, yes, G3 must interfere with the work on a new cd, granted. That still doesn't change my opinion of the 3cd deal. I hope, as you should, that I have to eat my words, and that the next DT disc is released in the fall or in the early winter, because THAT'S the Dream Theater I want to hear... the new innovative DT. Not the "same show just about every night DT" whose best attempt to spice things up is to make a medley of their own tunes. These guys are really talented... many of you know what they're capable of. I wonder why YOU don't hold them to a higher standard. Don't any of you remember the old days when you had to try and get every bootleg because they were always doing something different? What happened to THAT band... the one that flexed its MENTAL power each night, and not just its hand-eye co-ordination? This is why the albums are so great... all the effort finally culminating in a tapestry of sound. This is why I left the last DT show I went to shortly after Home. I want to see these guys push EVERYTHING, not just "how fast can I play this chop." The concert portion of the DVD bored me to tears. If you read the last jam, you already see that there's pressure to support the band etc. I like Dream Theater a lot. I respect them as people and as musicians. But I don't hold any illusions of being good buddies with the guys. I'm not going to go hang out with them before the show. I'd love to, but I also think they have enough to worry about. As a result, I am a fan, and that, while having emotional implications, is much like a business relationship. I love Volkswagon. If I'm poised to buy a GTI as my next car (currently a Golf driver) and they don't offer some significant changes between the MK IV and the next model, I'm not going to buy it. I've already been there. It's familiar. The thrill is sort of not a big deal anymore. Let's make this clear. Dream Theater knows how to make this cd worth it to ALL of the fans. They should do something significantly DIFFERENT on it. Something to set it apart. How hard would it be to play one more show with some variations in the PLAYING, NOT THE SETLIST (MR. HANSEN), and release THAT as the official live album, and then include a bonus disc of the material that wasn't on the DVD? That's a rhetorical question. I am a musician, and I know that this is not rocket science. I have no interest in entertaining arguments about the logistics involved. So you see, I am a fan of DT, and I want to support them, and I want them to drive around in Ferraris (I know they're not Yngwie-rich) but why do I want this? Not because they're my best friends, and because I went to school with them, but because of their music, and the choices they make. If I disagree with the choice, it seems logical to refrain from the purchase. It's nothing personal. Much like the decision to release a 3 cd live album, it's just business. - Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 23:27:34 -0700 From: Scott Hansen To: Subject: questions with regards to the debate on the 3CD set Message-ID: Hey all, As I was reading over everyone's opinion on the new live CD set that coming out (some seemed to be somewhat valid reasons - moreso than the Xmas/Fan Club discussion), I began to wonder something that I'd like to ask everyone, and I hope that everyone will respond to. The question is: If Elektra and/or DT had opted to put out a DVD/3CD combo set (similar to what QR had done with Operation LIVEcrime) for what it will cost to buy the DVD and 3CD set separately (around $55) instead of releasing them separately, would all of you found it excessive? Would you be as hesitant to purchase the set as you are to purchase the 3CD set, since you have the DVD already? In comparison, consider the aforementioned Operation LIVEcrime "box" set - here you had a video of nothing but the live performance of O:M and then you got a CD with the soundtrack to the video and nothing more; was that considered excessive, especially since the price back then was AFAIK around $40 and you got the video on videotape as opposed to DVD, which I realize did not exist back when Operation LIVEcrime was released, but for comparison sake? I'd like to hear everyone's opinions - not just those against the 3CD set. And since Operation LIVEcrime is part of the discussion, how many of you will be purchasing the re-issue (remaster?) of Operation LIVEcrime (which is just the CD - no video) since it will feature 3 "bonus" tracks (Roads to Madness, Take Hold of the Flame and Lady Wore Black)? Scott ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 02:38:35 -0400 From: Damon Fibraio To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: questions with regards to the debate on the 3CD set Message-ID: At 02:39 AM 6/4/2001, you wrote: >Hey all, > >As I was reading over everyone's opinion on the new live CD set that coming >Hmmmm. I'd actually buy that CD, sans video. >out (some seemed to be somewhat valid reasons - moreso than the Xmas/Fan >Club discussion), I began to wonder something that I'd like to ask everyone, >and I hope that everyone will respond to. The question is: > >If Elektra and/or DT had opted to put out a DVD/3CD combo set (similar to >what QR had done with Operation LIVEcrime) for what it will cost to buy the >DVD and 3CD set separately (around $55) instead of releasing them >separately, would all of you found it excessive? Would you be as hesitant to >purchase the set as you are to purchase the 3CD set, since you have the DVD >already? > >In comparison, consider the aforementioned Operation LIVEcrime "box" set - >here you had a video of nothing but the live performance of O:M and then you >got a CD with the soundtrack to the video and nothing more; was that >considered excessive, especially since the price back then was AFAIK around >$40 and you got the video on videotape as opposed to DVD, which I realize >did not exist back when Operation LIVEcrime was released, but for comparison >sake? > >I'd like to hear everyone's opinions - not just those against the 3CD set. > >And since Operation LIVEcrime is part of the discussion, how many of you >will be purchasing the re-issue (remaster?) of Operation LIVEcrime (which is >just the CD - no video) since it will feature 3 "bonus" tracks (Roads to >Madness, Take Hold of the Flame and Lady Wore Black)? > >Scott -- Damon Fibraio Musician, comedian, lover, and public menace email email_address_removed aol instant messenger screenname: nhblive MSN Messenger screenname: dfibraio Yahoo messenger name: Damon_m_f, web site: http://frontpage.home.net/dfibraio/ coHost of No Holds Barred Radio: see http://www.nhbradio.com for details Band sites: Awake: http://www.geocities.com/awake6am: Mystified: http://www.mystified2001.com "All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer by the stars, All of us do time in the gutter, dreamers turn to look at the cars, Turn around and walk the razor's edge."--Neil Peart of Rush, The Pass ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 16:46:51 +1000 From: "Paul Tadday" To: Subject: Re: questions with regards to the debate on the 3CD set Message-ID: <004b01c0ecc2$24e0d9a0$764636cb@PaulTadday> I'd have been even more excited about SFNY if the live cd's had been included even though it would have cost almost $100 Australian! And yes... I will be buying the re-issue of Livecrime. Both the DVD and cd with the bonus material. -Paul. ----- Original Message ----- ]From: Scott Hansen > Hey all, > > As I was reading over everyone's opinion on the new live CD set that coming > out (some seemed to be somewhat valid reasons - moreso than the Xmas/Fan > Club discussion), I began to wonder something that I'd like to ask everyone, > and I hope that everyone will respond to. The question is: etc... etc... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 17:39:31 +1000 From: Graham Boyle To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Soilwork Message-ID: Carlos A. Alfaro Hernandez wrote: > i have one of their disc, i forget the title, but its all black and shit on the > cover... its kick ass...but IMO theyre more like in flames with 7 string (or > detuned) guitars than meshuggah... > they rock anyways! The you'd definately like their most recent release 'A Predator's Portrait', full of great riff's, songs and even a few catchy chorus to boot. Opeth's Mikael Åkerfeldt is also singing on one of the songs (clean vox in the chorus) and sounds suspiciously like him on several other songs too. Check it out, one of the years best. graham ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 00:52:42 -0700 From: "Dr. Mosh" To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: 3CD set Message-ID: I find this entire debate mute, who buys CD nowadays anyways? ;) Save the environment! Use mp3! -The Doc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 18:04:44 +1000 From: Graham Boyle To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: 3CD set Message-ID: Dr. Mosh wrote: > I find this entire debate mute, who buys CD nowadays anyways? ;) > Save the environment! Use mp3! I agree 100%, plus they are free. There is nothing quite like the feeling of downloading a complete album months before it's official release. But nothing beats the feeling of knowing that the artist's hard work is pissed up against the wall and the joy of knowing that these mp3's are ripping off the bands. Like they need the money. graham ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 01:29:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Simon Dodd To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Setlists Message-ID: >I know (from reliable sources) that MP would love to >go nuts !! It is the other TOADS in the group that >want "same-old-same-old". And the story line of >Jordan having to pre-program his keys to match the >setlist makes me PUKE !! Actually, I think the latter argument is void anyway. There's no good reason why Jordan couldn't program setups for each song, and then chain them together in any way they desired. That way, they could change around the setlist anything up to an hour or so before the show. You'd be AMAZED what you can do with Kurzweil OS! As for teh other part...OK, so who are the TOADS? ;) ~SJD _____________________________________________________________ Get a free Irish email account at: http://www.irishnation.com Get free family crests and more at: http://www.irishsurnames.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 101 08:57:06 GMT From: email_address_removed.tr To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Soilwork Message-ID: They are f*cking great !! > > Anybody into Soilwork?? F*cking kick ass... almost like a melodic Meshuggah.. > > -The Doc > ------------------------------ ISPRO Internet Servisleri http://www.ispro.net.tr/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 18:23:32 +0900 From: "hitomi iwai" To: Subject: Re: Soilwork Message-ID: <000f01c0ecd8$28ed3820$c9e799d2@computer> Yes I dig Soilwork too. To me, their first 2 albums sounded like another Swedish extreme metal band Arch Enemy(plus a little thrashy elements) due to the twin guitar and the lyrical guitar solos. They finally captured their own style with their new release "A Predator's Portrait", IMO. I can't wait for their upcoming shows in my country... Hitomi --------------------------------------------------------- www.onthepage.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 07:48:27 -0400 From: "Rob Pociluk" To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: fan club rants Message-ID: As Mike said on the very first XMAS CD, the CD was a way to repay everyo= ne for years of them screwing up the fan club. I guess we've been repaid or the debt is paid off. Whatever. In any case, it = may have worked against them for all the reasons stated by Chris here below. Yes, the fanzine is pretty. It's not worth it. Why wait = for news from the Netherlands? For those that live without any kind of 21st Century technology, feel free to stay on. I have a feeling the= re will be a MAJOR dropoff in renewals unless they have another big plan. IF they do, they may want to make it well known prior to tha= t point. Rob ---- Begin Original Message ---- Sent: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 23:07:15 -0700 (PDT) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: fan club rants on 6/3/01 11:01 PM, ytsejam@torchsong.com at ytsejam@torchsong.com wrot= e: > With all due respect, you didn't pay $25 on a "a > fan club CD with 10 tracks from > various live shows throughout the tour". Correct > me if I'm wrong , but as a > member of the DTIFC you paid absolutely NOTHING > for "a fan club CD with 10 > tracks from various live shows throughout the > tour". The Xmas CD is absolutely > free when you subscribe to the ToD fanzines, > remember? Wrong I subscribed to the club for a $25 CD and 4 free fanzines. I'm not ashamed to admit it, I'M IN IT FOR THE CD!!! =A0I'm sure I'm no= t the only one. =A0I'm a Dream Theater fan. =A0I am in it for the MUSIC, not = a nice picture and article about a stop on the tour. Be honest, who wants to read about a show that they didn't go to unless= it is the first or last show of the tour? =A0How about reading reviews of = 21 different shows? =A0Yep, that is how many have been in the fanzine sinc= e I subscribed. =A05 issues. How about a CD recommendation section that has nothing to do with DT? I will support the band in any way I can, and yes, I'll get the new 3 d= isc set, but I don't think the fanclub is where it is at. =A0Without the CD= they have nothing but some concert reviews and an exclusive interview every = 3 months. =A0Hardly worth $6.25 an issue. =A0Maybe $2.50 on the high side=