YTSEJAM Digest 5324 Today's Topics: 1) Railing against "pop" culture in general is pointless (NDTC) by email_address_removed 2) JLB and more SFaM bitching, some queries, all DTC by "Awake ." 3) YTSEJAM digest 5323 by ytsejam-manager 4) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5323 by email_address_removed 5) There's more. by "Awake ." 6) Re: DT sold out and went totally commercial!!! by email_address_removed 7) RE: Dave mustaine on vh1 by "Tim Detman" 8) re: Pop DMB by Brian Hansen 9) Re: SFaM stuff by Linus Akesson 10) RE: Pop DMB by "Tim Detman" 11) RE: Dave mustaine on vh1 by David Dixon 12) question by Mark Moore 13) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5323 by "Greg Jones" 14) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5323 by "Greg Jones" 15) Un-subscribe me. by email_address_removed (marcus pedersen) 16) Re: vocals by Andrew Coutermarsh 17) 2/6 at the Roseland by "Neil Evans" 18) Re: JLB and more SFaM bitching, some queries, all DTC by Andrew Coutermarsh 19) Re: Un-subscribe me. by Andrew Coutermarsh 20) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5323 by Andrew Coutermarsh ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 11:17:20 EST From: email_address_removed To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Railing against "pop" culture in general is pointless (NDTC) Message-ID: somebody vented his spleen with the following: >What I hate is how the majority of people in general will listen to whatever >top 40 radio shoves down their throats. No matter what song is played, as >long as is played pretty constantly blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Your problem is that you are expecting other people to assign the same importance to music as you do. This is such a common thing to do, but if Jesus Q. Pubic doesn't really care about music anyway, and is just looking for something to listen to as background for his life's activities, of course he's going to accept whatever Top 40 throws at him. That's not even taking into account the whole peer pressure aspect. Substitute "read" for "listen", "book" for "song", and "hyped" for "played" in the above quote, and we can explain the popularity of crap pop fiction like Grisham, Clancy and the like, too. No intelligent person should be surprised when mass-marketed dreck rises to the top of sales and popularity charts. You know you are "right" -- be satisfied. NP: Souls at Zero (or is that "Sales at Zero"?) - Self-titled Kevin ------------------------------ Date: 20 Feb 2000 16:16:29 -0000 From: "Awake ." To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: JLB and more SFaM bitching, some queries, all DTC Message-ID: >> And the way James sings on this album [SFaM] is his >>best (ACOS too > >I would put ACoS over SFaM any day of the week >and twice on Sunday. He is certainly at his >most emotive on this album, but his technique is >just not there. Not really, the most emotive vocal he ever did was in Another World, LITS, and arguably TKH from L@TM. On SFaM - and in places on Mullmuzler - he just sounds so WHINEY! >I don't mind that he sings in a lower register more >on SFaM. What I do mind is how he is supressing his >vibrato. Even when he does use vibrato it is forced >and held, much unlike the free and easy vibrato he >had on Awake and ACoS. I love it when he goes up high, like the sections on Innocence Fadeded, TTT, TOT etc., he sounds fantastic. Can't do it live, of course, but I'll live with that. But with ref to the above and also this: >FII it was getting worse and SFaM sounds like >either an aging James, or a truly talented singer >trying to supress his natural and learned technique >in order to sound more commercial. No question, it's the latter. Listen to Mullmuzler and some of the backing vocals on SFaM (Strange Deja Vu, the bit that goes "There's a light at the top of the stair..."), he can still do it. I think JP and MP didn't want him doingb the high stuff, frankly. On any other album, the afore-mentioned backing vocal on that section of Deja Vu would have been the >range. Maybe less. Mariah Carey was forced to stop >showcasing her talents in order to sell more >records. That sucks! Here's this girl with these Actually, I think she stopped using it because the silly cow refused to allow a voice coach to warn her about the dangers of misusing it, and ended up tearing out her throat on tour. When was the last time you heard her hitting any of those high notes (or indeed, *any* one single strong target note) live? >fan of Mariah Carey's chosen style of music >(the soul stuff. I like the poppy stuff), but It's ALL pop stuff. Mariah Carey - in keeping with most people who make what these days passes as "soul" music, doesn't know the meaning of the world. It's glossy sub-hip hop-styled trash with cheesy melodies. >them (someone already mentioned the Peruvian >Skies-Have a Cigar similarity) then I think They don't sound at all similar; it's just that the riff fits in very nicely into the context. Same with the Sandman riff into the bottom half. Completely different, but bunch nicely together. >Also - someone had a sig with a quote from John P >regarding John M - where did that come from? I noticed that too, about "working with JM is like breathing - you just do it"? Was that an insult or a compliment, because it's a weird way of doing either. >As a project for my hard disk multitrack >recording class, I'm recording Hollow Years as >kind of a tribute (when I'm finished with it, >I'll post it so all you guys can hear it and >tell me what an awful voice I have and how Yeah, I recorded a version of Hollow Years last year on a little closed-circulation tape, and got suckered into doing the vocals too. Listening to it now is one of the most painfull experiences of my adult life. >I've noticed how hard it is to keep my vibrato >out of my voice and yet still sing with any Really? How do you get it INTO your voice, I can't do it at all? >From: "Paul Evans" >Subject: JP's live sound >Yup, I agree whole heartedly that JP's live sound >this tour is phenominal. Has anybody figured out >what he uses to get the acoustic sound? Probably a piezo system in the bridge...Ernie Ball likes those things. If JP's sound is phenomonal on this tour, it'd be a first. I've always hated his live rhythm guitar tone...It was too weedy on L@TM, just plain horrible (albeit much chunkier) on OIaL. Lead tones, he does alright, but not clean and rhythm. And when I listen to Awake now, a lot of those tones suck a little as well. That said, his tone on SFaM is great...Sounds like he's Finaly Found what he's been looking for... >You are aware that every 7 string band, including >a great deal of death metal, was up until recently >pickguard guitar, right? Probably about half You are aware that virtually every 7 string band has mind-bogglingly horrible tone, and - barring Fear Factory - rubbish composition, right? ..Even Limp Bizkit, and he doesn't even use a low B! ~Simon Sign-up for free Buffy the Vampire Slayer e-mail at http://www.buffymail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 18:29 +0100 From: ytsejam-manager To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: YTSEJAM digest 5323 Message-ID: SUBJECT: YTSEJAM digest 5323 ERROR: An attached file is too large ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 11:40:32 EST From: email_address_removed To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5323 Message-ID: TAKE ME OFF THIS STUPID LIST! 90% OF WHAt is posted on this mb is total crap that has nothing to do w/ music at all you people ruined something that had some possibilities. but then again you all may only be 12 years old ..then i would understand!! ------------------------------ Date: 20 Feb 2000 16:41:54 -0000 From: "Awake ." To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: There's more. Message-ID: >From: "Just Bart" >Subject: RE: some thoughts (too many actually...) >absolutely *love* SFAM because the entire band >is working to make the entire concept work. Oh, so THAT'S what they're doing? Well, they're not doing a very good job of it then. >Subject: RE: : JP's live sound > >> Has anyone else who has seen the Metropolis >>2K tour wondered why JP needs *6* 4x12 cabinets? > >Well, he uses a stereo image (for stereo effects >like delay, chorus, etc.). Think of the 6 speaker >cabs as 3 full-stacks and it all makes sense. Yeah, but he achieved that last time out with *3* 4x12s. I suspect that the basci reason is the same as it was for the I&W/Awake tours, as someone correctly pointed out: It makes one feel mighty impressive. But. Much like having a $3000 7-string and a rack the size of a Winnebago instead of a $600 RG and a SansAmp: Your penis remains exactly the same size. ;) >From: Amy Marie Van Wynsberghe >Subject: Marillion >Does anybody know where I can get a taste of both >"eras" of Marillion's music? Easy. Go to the kitchen. The Fish era is like butterscotch tart: if you don't like it, there's something reall wrong. The fake (Hogarth) era is like Marmite: some people like it, but they're weird. >Besides, at least Howe's more exciting than Billy >"Sherwood be nice to play more than just boring >rhythm parts". :) Be fair, that's what he's there for. It's like saying "Why don't Guy Pratt and Jon Carin play solos with Floyd" - well, because they're just musicians hired in to backup the remains of Floyd! >From: Trent >Subject: Re: POP Culture/Beyond this Life Vocal FX >No offense to any women on this list, or women in >general, but that sounds like something an *ignorant* >woman might say. I've noticed that women seem to be >more prone to listening to shitty pop music to the >exclusion of everything else moreso than a guy. Yes, but guys are more inclined to listen to shitty rubbish like Korn and Marilyn Manson, or all that crappy "hardcore dance" (y'know, the stuff that -whaever e;se they claim - sounds exactly like any other dance music). It balances out about evens. >'Course there's an exception for every rule (although >I've yet to find one for this one). Like I said, I'm Well, there's a large minority of women on this list straining at the leash to bust your arse over that post for a start. >(The dirtly little secret is James is a baritone, >too. Shhhh.) You're kidding? No way! This can't be true, right? ~Simon Sign-up for free Buffy the Vampire Slayer e-mail at http://www.buffymail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 11:53:03 EST From: email_address_removed To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: DT sold out and went totally commercial!!! Message-ID: << Jim Brown Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2000 9:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: If that ain't a kick in the ... Long time reader, first time poster - but I just felt the need to vent on this one. So I'm all psyched up for the Dream Theater show coming to Pittsburgh tonight. So myself and a friend get tickets, go down to the place (Metropol), head for the door, and WHAT!! You have to be 21 to get in, which of course does not bode well for myself being 20.8. I tired ineffectively arguing with the guy but no luck! Not only am I out 23 bucks, but I missed the show. Now I have to wait another 2 years for the next tour, aaack! Is it just me or is this ridiculous. Smells like commercialism to me, our once pure band now only plays venues that can shell out enough money stolen by selling $5 drinks?? For the record - that just pisses me off. JB ------------------------------------ Jim you should be pissed off. DT is not even touring in the NorthWest this time. They have been here in Portland each tour since I & W. When they were here last time it was a 21 and over show. Not a problem for me but many who wanted to go and had the cash could not get in. But DON'T be pissed off at the BAND!!!!! Fact like when they tour, where they tour, 21 and over, which clubs they play at, etc. ALL these decisions are made by their Management. This is a business decision based on many variables. The Band has to trust the business decisions made by the people they hired to do just that. Portland SUCKS when it comes to music. This is a blues and jazz town. You will almost NEVER hear a DT song on the radio here. In fact one DJ here named...you'll like this.."Craig the Dog Faced Boy" commented on SFAM when it was released saying something like..."their music is too complicated to listen to" This MORON typifies the mindset here. I don't blame the management for skipping Portland. Seattle is probably similar although I don't know firsthand. So be pissed off just don't blame OFB. There is a lot more to it. Warren in Porland P.S. to M.M. Bite Me! :>) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 11:54:46 -0500 From: "Tim Detman" To: Subject: RE: Dave mustaine on vh1 Message-ID: > Did anyone catch Mustaine in Rock n roll jeopardy on vh1? he kicked > George Clinton and Moon Zappa's ass!! > Its cool to see actual good musicians there instead of top40 pretty > faces.. its really hard for me to consider dave mustaine to be a good musician. yeah, he's got some skills. but i can't believe how shitty his music is getting. that new album sucks. and the thing is he doesn't care as long as it makes money. he even said that he wishes he could change the name of the band because "megadeth" doesn't represent the band. listen to any song on rust in peace, then listen to the new one. that shit pisses me off. a few years ago metallica pissed me off when they turned into a group of commecialized pussies, now megadeth has done the same. i hope dave and his megastreet boys are happy with their crap. -tim ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 09:46:33 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Hansen To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: re: Pop DMB Message-ID: "Tim Detman" wrote: > I even went to a DMB concert a few years ago. > And it was terrible, it was me and 30,000 drunk 15 year old girls... Lol! Now that really strikes me as funny. The usual complaint is being caught in a mosh with 30,000 drunk, screaming, sweating guys... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 18:51:17 +0000 (GMT) From: Linus Akesson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: SFaM stuff Message-ID: In accordance with the prophecy, Awake . uttered: > and chop the extraenious shit like the last five minutes of BTL, the first > minute and a half of THE, and the whole of TDOE, some of those excruciating > samples in FF that make me have to turn the volume down halfway through) was > flawed. Say what?? The whole instrumental part of BTL is swell, and TDOE plays a big role in the album and in linking it to Met. part 1. (In my oh so humble opinion of course.) I'm not trying to defend DT (like that would be necessary on this list), I just couldn't sit back and let you call those passages "extraenious shit" (sic) without any kind of motivation. What would you like SFAM to be? A Hollywood movie? Why do you want to remove all the passages that are slightly difficult to listen to? > The reviewer in my University's magazine said that he'd "rather have boiling > rats piss poured in [his] ears than ever have to listen to this again" Uh huh. How polemic. Linus ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Deliver a pizza? Whoever heard of a liver pizza? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- email_address_removed, visit http://linusworld.cjb.net (PGP key available). ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:09:53 -0500 From: "Tim Detman" To: Subject: RE: Pop DMB Message-ID: > Lol! Now that really strikes me as funny. > > The usual complaint is being caught in a mosh with > 30,000 drunk, screaming, sweating guys... i knew as soon as i typed that somebody would make that comment. it is kind of funny. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:13:24 -0700 From: David Dixon To: "'ytsejam@torchsong.com'" Subject: RE: Dave mustaine on vh1 Message-ID: >a few years ago metallica pissed me off when they >turned into a group of commecialized pussies Oh, Good Lord - don't open that can o' worms... :) >, now megadeth has done the >same. i hope dave and his megastreet boys are happy with their crap. >-tim Well, just because it's not metal doesn't mean it sucks. I rather like the new album, though admittedly you do have to analyze it outside the context of Megadeth as they were prior to the last couple albums. Yes, I like the old stuff better (I'm quite partial to SFSGSW...), but I definitely dig "Cryptic Writings" and "Risk". You just have to look at it through different eyes... David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:44:37 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Moore To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: question Message-ID: I am wondering if anybody can help me out. My friend and I are both dying to see Dream Theater here in the Dallas show in March. But there is one problem. My friend and I are both 15, the place they are playing at is for people 18 and older, no exceptions. I was wondering if anybody knows Mik Portnoys, or anybody from DT e-mail address or any way of contactin them. I would really like to see them, but because of the circumstances I can't. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks before hand. ===== Mark Moore-drumming is life "HOLD YOUR FIRE- KEEP IT BURNING BRIGHT HOLD THE FLAME 'TIL THE DREAM IGNITES- A SPIRIT WITH A VISION IS A DREAM WITH A MISSION __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 15:49:44 -0500 From: "Greg Jones" To: Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5323 Message-ID: <002101bf7be4$060c69e0$78e58ad1@gregjones> > > I cringe at the lyrics on SFaM. I think the concept sounds like >something Neil Peart rejected as being "too hammy" (which for >Rush is damned scary), and the lyrics don't even make the bet >of a bad job. I couldn't disagree more. The reason some people don't like the lyrics on SFAM is because they aren't ambiguous enough. Remember......ambiguity breeds depth. But the lyrics on SFAM are intentionally clear so as to tell the story. This is just what you'd expect from a concept album. It's also a limitation for a concept album. It's a trade off but not necessarily a deficit. Which do you want? A concept album or ambiguous (read deep) lyrics? You can't have both. > > >James sounds good, but not his best as everyone seems to be >implying (which I think is amazing on this list: one of DT makes >the least use of his technique on any album thusfar, and >Jammers don't bitch? I like James' sound on the new album because he doesn't overdue the high notes and the vibrato. Someone else on this list complained because he's suppressing his vibrato but to me, the vibrato vocals of prog sound so cliched. Greg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 15:53:59 -0500 From: "Greg Jones" To: Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5323 Message-ID: <002a01bf7be4$9d7f7880$78e58ad1@gregjones> > > >Petruccius says, "It's all in the fingers." > > Bollocks. Obviously the amp is the absolute decider, but at the business end of the cable, I'd say: it's about 50% in the fingers, 40% in the pickups, 5% in the strings and 5% in the construction of the guitar (wood, hardtail or whammy etc). In my opinion, most players confuse tone with playing and therefore incorrectly conclude think that tone is primarily in the fingers. While it is true that the fingers play a role in tone, I believe the major contribution to tone is in gear. Yes, it's true that Eddie Van Halen would still sound like himself even through a cheap solid-state amp lined direct to a junk PA but his tone would sound different. He would sound like himself because of his *playing*. If Eddie played an open D chord through his gear, and then I played an open D chord through the same gear no one could tell a difference in a blind fold test. VH's tone changed from the Roth era to the Post-Roth era because he changed amps and started using Chorus, not because his fingers changed. His playing still sounds the same, for the most part. Eddie Van Halen is just one example that proves my point. There is a difference between tone and playing. Tone is primarily in the gear, fingers play a smaller role. Playing is primarily in the fingers, gear plays a smaller role. > > > >At LAST, I can one-up Ron Thal and construct that 21 >string triple neck Bleu Cheese guitar I've been > >designing for months now! MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! > > I'd love a twin-neck with a 7-string and a 12-string. Drool... > > > >ReSent-From: Graham Borland > >I went to see Yes last night in Glasgow. I didn't > >know any of the songs, but I quite enjoyed it. The >Russian keyboard player was very cool; Steve > >Howe's guitar playing was extremely sloppy. > > I really like Igor, I think he's a really cool player...Now if only Bill Bruford would sign up again! As for Howe being sloppy...So what else is new. I never understood all the fuss about him. Interesting ideas as a pomposer, but his playing sucked on "The Yes Album", it sucked on "The Ladder", and it blew hard on everything in-between. > > > >From: "M P" > >Subject: PF and DT > >Actually, I keep expecting them to break into > >the end part of "Eclipse" sometime during that > >tune... sortof like you could expect "Have a Cigar" >during Peruvian Skies...it just fits. > > I said it before, but I'll say it again: the end of Stange Deja Vu. Starship Trooper III:Wurm (by Yes). A match made in heaven, I assure you. Actually, damnit, where's my copy of pro-tools? I can take the Uncovered version of that tune and link the two togeather! Now there's a plan! > > > >From: email_address_removed > >Subject: Scenes (My Decision) and Pink Floyd > >produced album, and I have finally come to the > >opinion that it IS a lyrically strong album. > > I cringe at the lyrics on SFaM. I think the concept sounds like something Neil Peart rejected as being "too hammy" (which for Rush is damned scary), and the lyrics don't even make the bet of a bad job. James sounds good, but not his best as everyone seems to be implying (which I think is amazing on this list: one of DT makes the least use of his technique on any album thusfar, and Jammers don't bitch? There's a first!); and the solos are often a little throwaway. It seems to me that the decision not to demo it first (which would have allowed time to reflect on it a little; and chop the extraenious shit like the last five minutes of BTL, the first minute and a half of THE, and the whole of TDOE, some of those excruciating samples in FF that make me have to turn the volume down halfway through) was flawed. > > >It took a while for me to get used to that > >"trumpet part," but now I even like that. I > >actually see how it's like metal jazz fusion > >and it does fit. > > No it doesn't; and that's nothing at all to do with the choice of patch, it's the scale JR's using. It sits uneasily at best into the song. The best possible conclusion for BTL is to fade it when that tremoloed guitar comes in before the instrumental package. > > >If someone asked me what album to buy first for > >DT to get a taste of them i would tell them SFAM. > > And they'd never listen to DT again. The reviewer in my University's magazine said that he'd "rather have boiling rats piss poured in [his] ears than ever have to listen to this again", that it was "sub-Pink Floyd", "full of stadium synths and guitars that are simultaeniously crunchy and widdly". I know the guy who wrote the review, and he's not a closed-mind prog-hater, he's got the widest musical tastes of anyone I've ever met, and a CD collection that takes up an entire room. He knows his shit, and to him - and anyone who isn't a DT fan and will thus give SFaM the required time to grow on them - it's terrible. Even I thought so when I first heard it, and I love DT. Some people suggestd that this'll be the breakthrough album - to them, I say: you're deluding yourselves. > > > >phenomenal. And by the way 94 PF Division Bell > >was by far the best concert I've ever seen and > >that includes seeing DT 5 great times and Liquid > >Tension once. > > Absolutely agreed. That's probably why Floyd's hiding at the moment: how the hell would they EVER top that? How can ANYONE top that? This was six years ago, and no-one's even come close to even matching it yet. > > ~Simon > > > Sign-up for free Buffy the Vampire Slayer e-mail at > http://www.buffymail.com > > ------------------------------ > > End of YTSEJAM Digest 5323 > ************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 15:54:33 -0500 (EST) From: email_address_removed (marcus pedersen) To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Un-subscribe me. Message-ID: This is my third and my last request to unsubscribe me from this crapletter. The next request will be from my lawyer. All three requests are recorded and notarized. Don't push me. Thank you for including me, but no thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:08:12 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Coutermarsh To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: vocals Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Feb 2000, M P wrote: > > I don't know ANY tenors who can sing a low A healthily, yet > >that is EXACTLY what James does in Voices (The BG vox on "Is there fantasy > >in refuge, God in politicians," > > I don't believe the backing vox were supplied by James for > this song. My liner notes for Awake are lost (and my signed > Japanese liner notes for Awake are stolen ;( thanks > Misfit), but I believe it's one of the producers. I was under the impression that the only song in which James didn't supply the background vocals was The Silent Man. And that was the producer. But I thought that James did ALL the other BG vox. And still, it doesn't matter much because he DID sing low A's on the following parts: (These are all in "Voices") "He used to say to >me<" - 1:21 ">Now< the widow makes the rules" - 1:35 ">I'm< kneeling on the floor" - 5:15 "Like the spider in the >window<" - BG Vox - 5:25 "God in >politicians<" - BG Vox - 5:38 "turn on my >religion<" - BG Vox - 5:41 Now, granted, the BG Vox parts are negotiable, since you claim that he may not have sung them. But I'm pretty sure he did. Tell you what: If nobody gets a chance to do it, I'll ask him when I see him in Boston next week. :) 1 week from today! You have NO idea how psyched I am to be seeing DT for the first time in seven (count 'em - SEVEN) days. I did see Mike and John at the clinic last May in Manchester, NH, but that doesn't really count, does it? It's not the WHOLE band. ------------------------------------------------- Andrew Coutermarsh email_address_removed http://cout.dhs.org/ Cloak on IRC ICQ: 2513441 ------------------------------------------------- "Whenever I watch TV and see those poor starving kids all over the world, I can't help but cry. I mean I'd love to be skinny like that but not with all those flies and death and stuff." - Mariah Carey ------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:13:20 -0800 From: "Neil Evans" To: Subject: 2/6 at the Roseland Message-ID: <002801bf7be7$519d7a40$056479a5@default> I'll be flying from CA to NY for the 2/26 show at the Roseland (and also to visit my g/f Nicole). We were thinking of having dinner before the show at a restaurant/bar near the venue called "Pig n' Whistle". It is on 47th street just east of 7th Ave, and supposedly has great food and a large menu. I think entrees run about $10-$15. Anyone interested in having a jammer get-together there? We could get there early, say 4ish, have a bite to eat and a few drinks, then head over to the Roseland en masse and raise hell. Reply to my private email (not the jam) if interested. cheers, -Neil. email_address_removed ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:24:47 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Coutermarsh To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: JLB and more SFaM bitching, some queries, all DTC Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Feb 2000, Awake . wrote: > >As a project for my hard disk multitrack > >recording class, I'm recording Hollow Years as > >kind of a tribute (when I'm finished with it, > >I'll post it so all you guys can hear it and > >tell me what an awful voice I have and how > > Yeah, I recorded a version of Hollow Years last year on a > little closed-circulation tape, and got suckered into doing the vocals > too. Listening to it now is one of the most painfull experiences of my > adult life. > > >I've noticed how hard it is to keep my vibrato > >out of my voice and yet still sing with any > > Really? How do you get it INTO your voice, I can't do it at all? I don't know how serious you are about singing, and how long you've really been trying to do it, but if you are at all serious, I can't stress enough the importance of a voice teacher. I started studying with mine in my freshman year of college (that's three falls ago), and I tell you, if I could go back and tell myself in high school to do even *10%* of the stuff that I do now with my voice, I'd have been the best baritone in Vermont (in my age group). As for putting vibrato in your voice... It's not so much a thing you PUT into your voice as it is a side-effect of having your tone completely free. Sure, pop singers and musical theatre people will ADD it to make certain effects, but in reality the true singers (that's right, opera people) show you how it's really done, because they sing completely freely. As for how to GET your voice free... There are several tips, but the only true way is to train yourself not to take control of your voice, but rather to LET it do what it wants. This also means that you have to accept the fact that as you try new things your voice is going to make mistakes (cracks, breaks, weird sounds). It's OKAY. Some tips you can use to *help* get your voice freer: Keep your mouth open at the normal amount, and make as large a space as you can in the back of your throat, kind of like a reverse megaphone. Don't overforce it, though; get it to be easily done. Do a lot of lip-trills and "R"-trills with your lips and tongue. Make sure that there's NO tension in your tongue afterward. I know it sounds odd, but: Do exactly what James does in-concert - Sing with your tongue sticking further out than you'd think it should be. In perfect terms, you should be able to sing your best when your tongue is at "Home" position, which is just behind your bottom teeth, but not pressing against them. It WILL help you, however, to create a free tone by sticking your tongue out and keeping it low (it opens up the back throat a little more). Sing as if you're yawning. That means that your nasal cavities are not opened (if you plug your nose you can't feel vocal vibrations) and your soft palette is WAY up there. Another good way to feel the tone you should have when singing is to (at least for guys) talk like a real macho man with a really deep tone or like you were bellowing out some phrase. These are just a few things that may help you to get a freer tone, but the only true way to do it is to get somebody professional to help you out with it, and believe me, after almost three full years of training, I'm STILL trying to get it just right. Only now am I starting to do things correctly, and it's really tough to do it 100% of the time. ------------------------------------------------- Andrew Coutermarsh email_address_removed http://cout.dhs.org/ Cloak on IRC ICQ: 2513441 ------------------------------------------------- Sometimes, when I would read a very good book, I would stop and thank my teacher. At least, I used to, until she got an unlisted number. ------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:32:49 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Coutermarsh To: marcus pedersen Subject: Re: Un-subscribe me. Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Feb 2000, marcus pedersen wrote: > This is my third and my last request to unsubscribe me from this > crapletter. The next request will be from my lawyer. All three > requests are recorded and notarized. Don't push me. > Thank you for including me, but no thanks. This strikes me as hilariously funny. Look, man, you joined this mailing list voluntarily, and as such, it is YOUR responsibility to know how to unsubscribe. You cannot possibly think that a lawyer is going to make a difference in that - in other words, you cannot sue somebody because of YOUR stupidity. To further prove my point, I'm going to MAKE it your responsibility to know how to unsubscribe. As such, I'm not going to tell you how. But it's NOT by threatening the list to do it for you; as a matter of fact, it's not by sending mail to the list at ALL. So, to make you actually WORK to find out the instructions, I'll tell you how to do it in a roundabout way for annoying us all with your petty requests. Go to www.dreamtheater.net and look for the instructions on how to unsubscribe. That's all I'm going to tell you. ------------------------------------------------- Andrew Coutermarsh email_address_removed http://cout.dhs.org/ Cloak on IRC ICQ: 2513441 ------------------------------------------------- If you try and don't succeed, cheat. Repeat until caught. Then lie. ------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:39:25 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Coutermarsh To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5323 Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Feb 2000, Greg Jones wrote: > I like James' sound on the new album because he doesn't overdue the > high notes and the vibrato. Someone else on this list complained > because he's suppressing his vibrato but to me, the vibrato vocals of > prog sound so cliched. Personally, I think this sounds like somebody who has been exposed to too much rock music and not enough of everything else. Just as an FYI: Vibrato is a result of singing CORRECTLY. The reason that James sang with vibrato in the other albums is because he was doing something that required a completely healthy voice (singing that high stuff is really hard to do). It's not cliched to sing properly, nor is it wrong to want to do so. The reason James sings without vibrato in these last two albums is probably because there was force coming from up above telling him not to do so. Too many pop and rock artists don't sing with vibrato because they don't have the skills necessary to do it properly, and that makes the people that DO use it seem out of the ordinary. Personally, when I really analyzed the vocals on FII, I was surpised at how little James actually did use vibrato. THAT was the reason he was hurting so much during Touring Into Infinity: Listen to OiaLT. Listen to how much his voice hurts from doing all that stuff straight-toned. He has to HOLD his voice, put PRESSURE on his vocal chords, in order to create that sound. And notice how much strain it put on him. Do you really want that to happen to him every time he does a tour? It will eventually make him no longer able to sing - and THAT would be the true crime here. ------------------------------------------------- Andrew Coutermarsh email_address_removed http://cout.dhs.org/ Cloak on IRC ICQ: 2513441 ------------------------------------------------- I like to go down to the dog pound and pretend that I've found my dog. Then I tell them to kill it anyway because I already gave away all of his stuff. Dog people sure don't have a sense of humor. ------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 5324 **************************