YTSEJAM Digest 5243 Today's Topics: 1) Re: Emotional Songs by email_address_removed 2) Re: Desmond Child by email_address_removed 3) Desmond's Child + DT by "Mats Rydstrom" 4) anecdote/emotional songs by "Fran Brennan" 5) supergroups by "Fran Brennan" 6) you or me by "Isaac Trumbo" 7) RE: Gordian Knot? by "Dave Thomas" 8) Kevin Moore and DT instrumentals by "Justin Sepulveda" 9) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5242 by email_address_removed 10) Chroma Key by Fernando Rauber 11) Re: emotional songs by email_address_removed 12) Re: Moore instrumentals | Hell Mary by email_address_removed 13) Cairo, Spock's Beard, Heather Nova, etc. by "Daniel T. Chen" 14) Re: Kevin Moore and DT instrumentals by "Wolfgang Rehmert" 15) Cables by "Vandenabeele, Hein" 16) Re: Cables by "Korg Ecksthrey" 17) Re: Cables by "Wolfgang Rehmert" 18) New Riffbreak CD now finished!! by "Jorrit Godeke" 19) LOL! by "Trevor W. Hoit" 20) I found something I didn't like. Amazing. by Andrew Coutermarsh 21) ARPROCH WEB PAGE by "ARPROCH" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 13:15:03 EST From: email_address_removed To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Emotional Songs Message-ID: > > Pearl Jam - Black > > Yes, "Black" remains one of my favorite Pearl Jams ever. Absolutely > stunning in concert, BTW This seems to be the one thing that we all can agree on here! Great, great song. You can tell that it is a very personal song to Eddie Vedder and that emaotion comes right through into the song. Also, for emotional songs, I'd have to say anything from Pink Floyd's The Wall. And for DT, Space Dye Vest, JP's solo form LITS, and Hell's Kitchen. I'm sure there's much more, just can't think of it now. -Mike C. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 13:21:05 EST From: email_address_removed To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Desmond Child Message-ID: >First: I love Desmond Child's work with Bon Jovi and Alic Cooper. If I >think of Living on a Prayer, Poison, Let It Rock, I'm thinking of really >catchy choruses, totally superb break/key changes and huge singalongability. Actually, you just said every reason why personally I hate Desmond Child and what he does to songs. I am so glad DT only did that one song with him. IMO (and it's just an opinion of course) is that the above music is total pop crap and we don't need that coming from DT! -Mike C. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 19:31:56 +0100 From: "Mats Rydstrom" To: Subject: Desmond's Child + DT Message-ID: <001501bf4caa$d36c3aa0$0d01a8c0@slitz.se> Well... fuck AOR! If DT were to work with Destiny's Child - THAT would be something. That would RIP AZZ!!! :) Merry Xmas everyone! top 3 albums of '99: * V/A - Return Of The Grievous Angel: A Tribute To Gram Parsons * Dream Theater - Metropolis Pt 2: Scenes From A Memory * Euro Boys (Kare & The Cavemen) - Long Day's Flight Till Tomorrow /Mats http://progorama.web.com http://members.xoom.com/rydstrom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 11:09:22 PST From: "Fran Brennan" To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: anecdote/emotional songs Message-ID: I was driving the other day with my mother, listening to a mix tape I had made. LTL was on it, and at that part near the end where the lyrics go:"ohhhhohhhhhohhhhhh, ohhhhhhhohhhhhhohhhhhhhh, whoaoooohhhhohhhhhhhoohhHHHHHHHHHHHHHH", my mom asked me "hey! Is that the '4 non blondes' lady?". Needless to say, I was VERY amused. That's funny on SO many levels =^). Most emotional songs (excluding DT, of course) Fleckones - At last we meet again Edgar Meyer - Sliding Down Rush - *insert just about ANY song here* Widespread Panic - C.Brown Jaco Pastorius - Three Views of a Secret well, about done, methinks -Banjoman NP: Pickin' on the Grateful Dead (I've also seen "Pickin' on Dylan", and "Pickin' on Clapton". I'm holding out for "Pickin' on Rush" =^) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- People will do anything for those dead presidents - Col. Bruce Hampton, Ret. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 11:29:42 PST From: "Fran Brennan" To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: supergroups Message-ID: I hate those 'supergroups' when the emphasis is on technique. I listened to LTE a few weeks ago, and it really did nothing for me. I was SOO excited when I heard that Victor Wooten had made and album with Scott Henderson, but when I finally picked it up, it sounded completely uninspired. I recently bought one with Jerry Goodman, Howard Levy, Steve Smith, and Oteil Burbridge (I NEVER thought I'd hear Oteil and Jerry together!), and it's actually pretty cool. And "Surrender to the Air", a side project of Phish's guitarist + drummer, as well as a whole score of avant-garde artists is one of the coolest free jazz cd's I own. So basically I just rambled for an entire post and didn't really say much of anything. So sue me =^) -Banjoman np: Leftover Salmon - Ask the Fish It's always cool to come up with hypothetical "supergroups" that have a lot of our favorite musicains in them. I for one though, thank God that these type of bands rarely ever come into existence. For often, they work much better on paper then they do in reality. For example, remember back in the early 80's when Jimmy Page (from Zepplin of course) and Paul Rodgers (from Bad Company) formed the Firm? Many people had great expectations from that band but God did they suck! I just thought I'd mention this. Having said this though, putting a band together like in prog rock would probably have a better chance of succeeding than most other genres. Anyone out there have examples of these supergroups that worked or didn't work? I'd be interested in hearing people' s responses. -Mike C. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 19:45:41 GMT From: "Isaac Trumbo" To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: you or me Message-ID: until "you or me" there wasn't one dream theater song i would skip over.. "you not me" was increadible.. "you or me" lacked the depth that dream theater always displays in their music.. inferno Michael Romero - The Dark Chapter ><< He completely changed the lyrics into typically cheesy >relationship lyrics that you can hear on any generic top 40 hit. >>> > >Actually, I think Desmond Child SAVED that song. The orignal just >drones >on >and on and has no discernable hook. "His" version was actually >decent. >Probably the worst song on FII, but still light-years better than the >original. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 12:59:21 -0800 From: "Dave Thomas" To: Subject: RE: Gordian Knot? Message-ID: <001c01bf4cbf$6bdeeee0$046400c0@oemcomputer> I found Gordian Knot to be the best CD of 1999. Very inventive instrumental music, that sounds fresh and original. If you like bass playing, you'll really like this CD, as Malone plays all sorts of interesting stuff. JM from DT shows up on a couple of tracks as well. Highly recommended. If you want, you can go to the site shown in my signature and read a review of the CD. Dave Thomas - Editor, Pixel Planet Reviews of books, music, comics, movies, games, CG software, programming tools and more! http://www.pixelplanet.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 14:59:15 PST From: "Justin Sepulveda" To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Kevin Moore and DT instrumentals Message-ID: Just wondering if anyone else thought that the best instrumentals from DT (not LTE) came when Kevin Moore was in the band. Hell's Kitchen is a good song but it's more of a guitar solo and Dance of Eternity is good too, but there is no structure to it or common ground. Both of these songs are great and very technical but they just don't have the same impact. Ytsejam, Bombay Vindaloo, and Erotomania, to me, had a much greater impact. Later Jammers, Justin ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 19:10:46 EST From: email_address_removed To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5242 Message-ID: In a message dated 99-12-22 13:00:22 EST, you write: << First: I love Desmond Child's work with Bon Jovi and Alic Cooper. If I think of Living on a Prayer, Poison, Let It Rock, I'm thinking of really catchy choruses, totally superb break/key changes and huge singalongability. Can you really croak along to James going 'It's all about you, not me'? I don't want to yell along in falsetto. I don't know. I do find myself singing along with the chorus of YNM, but it's obviously not nearly in the same league as Livin' On A Prayer, probably because YOM pretty much sucked (for a DT song, which, like bad pizza, is still pretty good) from the get go. But I NEVER find myself singing along to YOM. And that's the difference. I don't know where the hook is in YNM. 'That's all right, that's ok' shows signs of Desmond Child, Wasn't that in the original YOM? If so, I don't think that was Desmond Child's doing, though it does sound like something he would have done. YNM makes my throat seize up just listening to it. So much for a key change! For me, the chorus is the best part of YNM, and that seems to be the part where DC had the most influence. And I loved the bass at the beginning of the track and beneath the solo. I do admit, I like the intro to YOM better than YNM. But that was probably more of an arranging choice than a songwriting one. Richie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 19:17:31 -0200 From: Fernando Rauber To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Chroma Key Message-ID: Hello fellow Ytsejammers! I've just bought Chroma Key and I loved every of second of it. Well, almost every second. The only problem for me is the last track, I think it would be better if "Dead Air For Radios" ended on track no 8. I just can't listen to Hell Mary. The ambiental music on this track is ok, but there's no way to stand the voice. It sounds like an old Sound Blaster/Creative voice synthetizer (texto ole,blah blah)... Favorite tracks: Colorblind, Even The Waves, S.O.S, On The Page, Mouse. []s Fernando Rauber ICQ: 2281311 http://fast.to/frmp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 23:37:26 EST From: email_address_removed To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: emotional songs Message-ID: Long list here: these are songs that make me `feel` Queensryche: Someone Else Dishwalla: Until I Wake Up Dogma: Unsaid Bon Jovi: Bed of Roses Dream Theater: A Vision (w/Charlie on vox) ACoS Eve Without You Bad (U2 cover) To Life Forever Space-Dye Vest Mullmuzzler: Slow Burn Billy Joel: Goodnight Saigon Symphony X: Candlelight Fantasia Neal Morse: Emma (the saddest song I've ever heard) Everything Is Wrong Guns 'n Roses: November Rain Alanis Morrissette: Mary Jane Conception: Cry Pearl Jam: (for all the bad songs they have, they have some powerful, emotional songs) Black Yellow Ledbetter I Got Id Better Man Immortality Savatage: Believe Stay Shadow Gallery: Alaska No Doubt: Don't Speak Duran Duran: Ordinary World LTE: State of Grace Fates Warning: Guardian Eric Johnson: Manhatten Marillion: Easter Jim np - chroma key: dafr (also emotional) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 23:41:37 EST From: email_address_removed To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Moore instrumentals | Hell Mary Message-ID: >< Just wondering if anyone else thought that the best instrumentals from DT (not LTE) came when Kevin Moore was in the band. Hell's Kitchen is a good song but it's more of a guitar solo and Dance of Eternity is good too, but there is no structure to it or common ground. Both of these songs are great and very technical but they just don't have the same impact. Ytsejam, Bombay Vindaloo, and Erotomania, to me, had a much greater impact. >< Actually, I feel the complete opposite. It's just a coincidence. I don't think Kevin Moore is less of a player for it, but I love Hell's Kitchen and Overture 1928 whereas Ytse Jam and Erotomania bore me. I don't particularly care TDoE though, yet I love Eve, which is almost all Kevin. >< The only problem for me is the last track, I think it would be better if "Dead Air For Radios" ended on track no 8. I just can't listen to Hell Mary. The ambiental music on this track is ok, but there's no way to stand the voice. It sounds like an old Sound Blaster/Creative voice synthetizer (texto ole,blah blah)... >< That trakc scared the hell out of me the first time I herad it. Still does. I don't think of it as a song at all. There is music, but it's more of a soundtrack. I hardly ever listen to it, but that is some dark, eerie, powerful stuff. Jim np - megadeth: rust in piece ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 01:54:35 -0500 From: "Daniel T. Chen" To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Cairo, Spock's Beard, Heather Nova, etc. Message-ID: Hi fellow 'jammers, I trust you're all enjoying the holiday. I can hardly contain my excitement at picking up three of the most wonderful albums I've run across in the used bin at a local record store... (1) Cairo - _Conflict and Dreams_ - Wow, I know I'm a bit late in catching this year-old album, but it rocks! There is some astounding keyboard wizardry that I simply cannot express in words... Six songs, four of which top ten minutes... Virtuosity, creativity, passion-- for what more can I ask?! (2) Spock's Beard - _The Kindness of Strangers_ - Yes, I'm a latecomer to Spock's Beard, but ever since I downloaded, err, heard ;-) _Day for Night_, I have been hooked. I've since bought that and this album, and I must say that Spock's Beard would be a more-than-worthy third act for the DT US tour. Excellent album. For those of you lurking in the shadows who haven't gotten your hands on this album, do so! It's critical for your survival! Heh, well, nearly so anyways... ;-) (3) Heather Nova - _Siren_ - Perhaps a bit poppy, but wow are these songs *catchy*, not to mention the lyrics are great. I've heard "London Rain (Nothing Heals Me Like You Do)" prior, but uh, it doesn't do this artist justice. Her songs are incredibly poignant. In any case, take care and have a walloping holiday fit! ;-) dtc --- Daniel T. Chen email_address_removed ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 09:19:21 +0100 From: "Wolfgang Rehmert" To: Subject: Re: Kevin Moore and DT instrumentals Message-ID: <001601bf4d1e$6bd2d4c0$4352fd91@roterplatz> > Just wondering if anyone else thought that the best instrumentals from DT > (not LTE) came when Kevin Moore was in the band. Hell's Kitchen is a good > song but it's more of a guitar solo and Dance of Eternity is good too, but > there is no structure to it or common ground. Both of these songs are great > and very technical but they just don't have the same impact. Ytsejam, > Bombay Vindaloo, and Erotomania, to me, had a much greater impact. I partially agree with you on this one. Especially the keys-guitar unisono parts on IAW seem to be a good example for this one, as in Metropolis Pt.1. I never got the feeling of "solo-part" on this one, but that of an instrumental part instead. To me it seems that on both IAW and ACoS the instru-mentals ;-) were planned more orchestral than one instrument soloing and the rest of the band laying the groundwork for that solo, wich is why I love both of 'em so much. There's a lot more to learn from an incredible part that's played within a context to all the other instruments than from all this "wailing while the others keep it low" -stuff and the impact that this kind of music has on the listener is much higher IMVHO. That kind of work is almost totally missing from FII and SFaM. On a different note, some titles that have moved me are DiMeola, McLaughlin, DeLucia - Guardian Angel (Friday Night in SF) Rush - Queensryche - The whole Mindcrime album Hendrix - All along the watchtower Metallica - Fade to Black Steve Vai - Blue Powder and the list goes on and on and on............ Merry X-Mas to all you Jammers out there! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 10:13:15 +0100 From: "Vandenabeele, Hein" To: "'ytsejam@torchsong.com'" Subject: Cables Message-ID: Funny how some people pretend they can hear musical differences for different types of cable being used to connect an ampifier and loudspeakers. Have been looking around a while for class speakers (I am very much into Dynaudio) and some sellers tried to sell me the idea of different cables, some of which are VERY expensive. I can understand you hear the difference between different kind of speakers (easy), but between diffent cables ??? Isn't this kind of over the top ????? Just wondering HeinV NP Liquid Drum Theater Part II ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 02:31:11 -0700 From: "Korg Ecksthrey" To: Subject: Re: Cables Message-ID: <000f01bf4d28$8d604370$850d84d0@default> > between different kind of speakers (easy), but between diffent cables ??? > Isn't this kind of over the top ????? Shhhh!!! You know that and I know that but people like *whisperpssstheywhisperALpsstshhhhheybequiet!psst* don't know that. More expensive gear has a placebo effect on them. They are only psychologically prepared to receive the music better when no discernable change has really taken place. :) Little do they know that my MP3 collection sounds just as good through my Cambridge Soundworks computer speakers as it does through their collective Denon, etc. stuff. But let's allow them to enjoy their crudely-constructed, mentally divergent escapades knowing we're the ones who can accept reality. :) Shhh. Just don't tell! -- KorgX3 is up waaaay past bedtime and the caffeine is rocking his ass. NP: John Tesh - Live at Red Rocking his ass. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 11:37:18 +0100 From: "Wolfgang Rehmert" To: Subject: Re: Cables Message-ID: <000201bf4d31$eb2e9ca0$4652fd91@roterplatz> Damn Korg, now you blew it!!!! The whole Hi-Fi industry is going to collapse and all because of you. Because you so cunningly uncovered their marketing methods, they'll be forced into hiding or selling cheap stuff. Factories will have to close, unemployment rates will rise to the skies....this is how armageddon got started!! And all 'cause you didn't e-mail privately but had to shout it out loud!!!!! :/\) Wolfgang Caffeine RULES! NP - Monster Magnet Powertrip ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 14:44:14 +0100 From: "Jorrit Godeke" To: "Y15374M" Subject: New Riffbreak CD now finished!! Message-ID: <003201bf4d4b$e87486e0$2a9979c3@JorritGodeke> Hello Jammers, Finally, after month of hard work, our new CD 'Beyond Redemption' is finally finished. Please take the time to listen to the MP3's on our website: http://riffbreak.tripod.com Let me know what you think of it! --Jorrit ------------------------------ "Virtue constitutes happiness and selfcontrol is the essential part of virtue." (Cynic) ------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 07:03:24 -0800 From: "Trevor W. Hoit" To: "'Ytsejam'" Subject: LOL! Message-ID: ]From the Marillion/Fish list: "Worst - Dream Theatre, sorry guys. I have read and taken your advice on many things, but this CD has to be the pits (IMHO)! It sounds like a poor excuse for a bad Extreme CD (did the drummer get a new set of double bass drums for this??)" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 12:51:59 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Coutermarsh To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: I found something I didn't like. Amazing. Message-ID: After listening in awe to this album, I've found something I REALLY don't like. I can't believe they didn't notice this, actually, because to somebody who really listens well, it's so obvious. In the end of The Spirit Carries On, there's just the piano and bass playing (or it's a much softer section, at least - I don't know if it's just bass and piano or other stuff too, I think there's a gospel singer in there)... THe problem I have with it is that the bass is SO flat! Why would they not re-record something like that, when it's extremely obvious that the instrument is out of tune? I just couldn't believe something like that... ------------------------------------------------- Andrew Coutermarsh email_address_removed Cloak on IRC ICQ: 2513441 ------------------------------------------------- If it's raining, a cute thing to tell a child is "God is crying." If they ask why, another cute thing to say is, "Probably something you did." ------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 14:51:50 -0400 From: "ARPROCH" To: Subject: ARPROCH WEB PAGE Message-ID: <007901bf4d76$c6242340$4ad91bc8@default> Dear Ytsejamers : Hello to all the prog fans around the World. We would like to invite you = to meet the new web site of the Chilean Progressive Rock Association ARPROCH= : www.unete.cl/arproch You can find a review of the LTE 2 Album and Meet a New Chilean Prog-Met= al Band : Cris=E1lida Besides in this First Issue : Prog News, An exclusive report to the trip of IQ to Chile with exclusive pictures, An interview to the Chilean Prog band TRYO, CD reviews: Steve Hackett, LTE, Pendragon, Fish, YES, Arena, Porcupine Tree among others - Dossier of the Chilean Prog Bands: Tryo, Standard Implacable, Subterra, Sur Pacifico, Amusia , Dwalin - Prog Gigs Reports, etc. Also, we invite you to the poll of the end of the Century: Vote for the b= est 5 progressive bands and the best 5 progressive albums of the Millenium. T= o the voters we have a few surprises!!! Any comments, reviews, colaborations, please send to our e-mail: email_address_removed Greetings and best wishes for this Christmas and the New Year 2000. Chilean Progressive Rock Association ARPROCH ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 5243 **************************