YTSEJAM Digest 5227 Today's Topics: 1) phish by "Fran Brennan" 2) Re: NO WAY! by Justin Seth James 3) Phish Prog by email_address_removed 4) liquidaudio by "Isaac Trumbo" 5) Re: POS/MM/Seattle by email_address_removed 6) Top 12 of the Decade by email_address_removed 7) TSO! by Joe DeAngelo 8) Perpetual Motion Prog/Power Awards '99: by Joe DeAngelo 9) Re: Spiral Architect by Younis Hilal 10) Re: Meshuggah guitar player's side project. by Younis Hilal 11) Re: recommendations, purchases by Coldfire the Gallery Mistress 12) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5226 by email_address_removed 13) Scarred, Rush recommendation by email_address_removed 14) CD players/Pain of Salvation by Jon Kretschmer 15) Signing off for a while.. by "Jeremy Kube" 16) I feel like a kid again.. by "Korg Ecksthrey" 17) Re: Scarred by email_address_removed 18) Metal Edge's review of SFaM by "Al @ Switchcraft" 19) Re:Portable CD players by "Al @ Switchcraft" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:03:43 PST From: "Fran Brennan" To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: phish Message-ID: A few jams ago, I wrote: Darn Right, Phish is prog!! You listen to "It's Ice" or "You Enjoy Myself" and then tell me they're a Greatful Dead ripoff! >> Then He wrote: They're a Grateful Dead rip-off. Now I write: Well, I guess you sure showed ME =^) -Banjoman np: Col. Bruce Hampton and the Fiji Mariners - Live ---------------------------------------------------------------------- there's no one here, and people EVERYWHERE - Bjork ********************************************************************** ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 15:22:26 -0800 From: Justin Seth James To: Ytsejam Subject: Re: NO WAY! Message-ID: You're not limited to using the stamps, you can go online to their website and see their entire selection and simply write the number for whatever you want in the spot where you would otherwise put the stamp. Justin Seth James > I got one of those stupid "Sign up with BMG!" letters in the mail > yesterday and I had just opened it. Out of curiosity, I started flipping > through the stamp listing they had (you have to apply these stamps to the > order form for some ridiculous reason) and, to my complete surprise, they > actually have Dream Theater on the stamp listing! Once in a LIVEtime was > on there, as was Fates Warning: Still Life. I was blown away. Just > thought I'd share my amazement with everyone. Too bad SFaM wasn't on > there, though. > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:46:29 EST From: email_address_removed To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Phish Prog Message-ID: Phish kicks ass.......hey richie, go fuck yourself...ur ignorant and ur probably 12. You can not like the music, but hey, at least respect the shit. BTW.....grateful dead kicked ass too....if you dont like that, eat a dick. -compadre- (A avid phish fan who no longer does drugs or is the least bit rich) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 22:24:25 GMT From: "Isaac Trumbo" To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: liquidaudio Message-ID: hey..it's been a hellava long time since i've posted.. i'm just started work at liquid audio (www.liquidaudio.com) .. been a bit too busy to really catch up on the jam. but i thought i might throw all you musicians a bone here.. this is a blatent plug for the organization i just joined up with :) i wouldn't be doing this on the ytsejam if i didn't think you all could get something out of it liquid platnum is a program liquid audio is doing that's giving us amature musicians with professional aspirations the ability to do some serious marketing and distribution of our shit.. it's something that mp3.com has tried to pull off but at mp3.com it's all inhouse.. you tend to get lost in a sea of 20,000 bands or so.. liquid audio is really taking down the walls of internet music distribution.. plus at liquid audio we can stream music at CD quality.. basically the Real Audio concept of sampling but it actually sounds good and doesn't stop every ten seconds to refresh itself.. less painless then downloadable mp3's.. great to do this with our own music anyways.. i don't want to piss too many people off :) not trying to start an add campain just thought there might be a few who could use the info..if any of you want further info please e-mail me in private and i'd be happy to expound.. oh yeah new Queen is posted on the website :) hehe anyone heard the new Opeth (Still Life)? I'm listening to it right now..it's blowin my mind.. these guys have really progressed as musicians since their last release. Was bothered a bit cause i thought the album name was a bit off fates warning, but my suspicion is it's a bit of Iron Maiden rather :) inferno NP: Opeth - Still Life "'MUSIC'...when you're MY age you won't have time for such foolishness." - Glenn Buckingham (a co-worker) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:23:55 EST From: email_address_removed To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: POS/MM/Seattle Message-ID: << > The interesting question for me > is more who will the mysterious 3rd band be. After > Spock's Beard have said it won't be them, my personal > number one choice would be Mastermind. Anybody else? Only if they bring Jens J with them and don't sing. :) >> Mastermind would be cool...they played a great show at Nearfest, with the exception that the mix of the guitar and keys seemed very high and a little too ear-piercing...other than that I thought it was a great set. I don't know if you are aware, but Mastertmind got a new singer. Her name is Lisa Bouchelle (sp?), and they played at Nearfest with her. I have to say, that she has a very good voice, and this is coming from someone who isn't really a big female vocals fan. Hey, at least it gives us guys something else to look at up there :) adaM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:41:13 EST From: email_address_removed To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Top 12 of the Decade Message-ID: I know they don't like lists, but since I added some comments, I figured I could avoid total banishment. Honorable mentions: Mindfunk - Dropped, Flotsam and Jetsam - Drift, Bruce Dickinson - Accident of Birth, Deep Purple - Purpendicular, Carcass - Heartwork 12. Overkill - Horrorscope Perfect thrash with a snarl and bite. 11. Conception - Flow Who can't appreciate this? It's beyond me... 10. Blind Guardian - Imaginations from the Other Side The epitome of German power metal, done right. 9. Angra - Holy Land I don't care what anyone says, this is a masterpeice, whiny vocals and all. 8. Soundgarden - Badmotorfinger You might call it grunge, I call it excellent metal. 7. Pain of Salvation - One Hour By the Concrete Lake Original, progressive music with thoughtful lyrics and powerful melodies... 6. Dream Theater - Awake The masters at the top with just the right edge of heaviness... 5. Voi Vod - The Outer Limits They took it to the outer limits with this, their most proggy disc. An overlooked gem. 4. Alice in Chains - Dirt Once again, you might call it grunge, but it's emotional, well-played, powerful music. I could listen to "Down in a Hole" forever. 3. Symphony X - The Divine Wings of Tragedy Perfect neo-classically-tinged metal; Yngwie meets Dio and comes out even better. 2. King's X - Dogman Some hate the modern skew, but this cd has some of the catchiest, yet uncompromising, hooks this side of a bait shop. "Fool You" alone is worth the price. 1. Fates Warning - Parallels If you know me, this shouldn't be a shock. Perfect, and I mean PERFECT molding of the progressive and the commercial, topped off with some of the most touching, emotional lyrics ever. Ray Alder should be crowned for this. Don't follow me. :-) Kevin NP: Royal Hunt - Live, disc 2 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 19:25:20 -0500 From: Joe DeAngelo To: undisclosed-recipients:; Subject: TSO! Message-ID: OK, this was pretty cool..... I was at Harmony House/ Ticketmaster buying tix for the Trans-Siberian Orchestra show here in Detroit. The following exchange occurred between myself and two of store employees. Employee #1 (to employee #2) : Hey, do we have any promo materials for Trans-Siberian Orchestra? Employee #2: No we don't. I'm surprised we don't though, with the way that thing is selling. Me: Oh? Is TSO selling pretty good? #1: Yeah, it's a really big seller. Me: You guys know who Trans-Siberian Orchestra really is, right? #1 and #2: No Me: TSO is actually the members of the metal band Savatage, along with some guest musicians. #1: You're kidding? Me: No, I'm totally serious. #1: Whoa..... no wonder TSO kicks so much ass. #2: That's cool! And then later that day, I was in a local bakery, and I hear TSO playing. I looked to where their radio/CD player was to see if was a disc or on the air, and sure enough..... it was playing on 95.5 (our local Top-40 station here). :) - Joe D. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 19:40:12 -0500 From: Joe DeAngelo To: YTSEJAM Subject: Perpetual Motion Prog/Power Awards '99: Message-ID: Just to give everybody a little something to talk about. I'm gonna post the results of Perpetual Motion's Award's '99 here. It's pretty relevant since DT pretty much swept damn near every category. ENJOY...... --------- 1999 Perpetual Motion Awards I'd like to thank everyone for the huge voter turnout this year. I'd also like to once again praise Squarooticus for his hard work in making the process easier for everyone. A few notes to pass along: *Please keep in mind the point system used (ie. 10 pts for a #1 vote, 9 pts for #2, etc.) used to determine the top 10 discs. It was not 1 pt per vote. *Honorable mention indicates the band/individual received a significant percentage of the vote and narrowly missed finishing in the top 3. Without further ado, the Perp goes to..... Top 10 Discs of the year. 1. DREAM THEATER- METROPOLIS PART II: SCENES FROM A MEMORY 2. Evergrey- Solitude*Dominance*Tragedy 3. Nevermore- Dreaming Neon Black 4. Angel Dust- Bleed 5. Crimson Glory- Astronomica 6. Mayadome- Near Life Experience 7. Nightwish- Oceanborn 8. Dreamscape- Very 9. Vanden Plas- Far Off Grace 10. Eldritch- El Nino Prog-Metal: 1. DREAM THEATER- METROPOLIS PART II: SCENES FROM A MEMORY 2. Mayadome- Near Life Experience 3. Tie: Nightwish- Oceanborn Clockwork- Surface Tension Power-Metal: 1. EVERGREY- SOLITUDE*DOMINACE*TRAGEDY 2. Nevermore- Dreaming Neon Black 3. Crimson Glory- Astronomica Prog-Rock/Neo-Prog Rock: 1. SPOCK'S BEARD - DAY FOR NIGHT 2. Ice Age- The Great Divide 3. Tiles- Presents of Mind Death/Black Metal: 1. OPETH- STILL LIFE 2. In Flames- Colony 3. Dark Tranquility-Projector Honorable Mention: Testament- The Gathering AoR: 1. DC COOPER- DC COOPER 2. Westworld- Westworld 3. Def Leppard- Euphoria Honorable Mention: Ten- Spellbound Instrumental: 1. LIQUID TENSION EXPERIMENT- LTE2 2. Gordian Knot- Gordian Knot 3. Vinnie Moore- The Maze Honorable Mention: Derek Sherinian- Planet X Technical: 1. LIQUID TENSION EXPERIMENT- LTE2 2. Dream Theater- Metropolis Part II: Scenes from a Memory 3. Gordian Knot- Gordian Knot Honorable Mention: Control Denied- Fragile Art of Existence Live: 1. ICED EARTH- ALIVE IN ATHENS 2. Bruce Dickinson- Scream for Me Brazil 3. Metallica- S & M Honorable Mention- Manowar- Hell on Stage Live Reissue: 1. TIE: PAIN OF SALVATION: ENTROPIA Blind Guardian- Imaginations from the Other Side 3. Blind Guardian- Tales from the Twilight World Solo/Side Project: 1. RAY ALDER- ENGINE 2. Luca Turilli- King of the Nordic Twilight 3. Mullmuzzler- Keep It to Yourself Honorable Mention: DC Cooper- DC Cooper Extreme: 1. MR. BUNGLE- CALIFORNIA 2. Amorphis- Tuonela 3. Gathering- How to Measure a Planet Honorable Mention: Anathema- Judgement Song of the Year: 1. DREAM THEATER- HOME 2. Angel Dust- Bleed 3. Tie: Evergrey- Solitude Within Dream Theater- The Dance of Eternity Honorable Mention: Nevermore- Dreaming Neon Black, Crimson Glory- Astronomica Band: 1. DREAM THEATER 2. Evergrey 3. Crimson Glory Honorable Mention: Mayadome Male vocalist: 1. DC COOPER 2. James LaBrie 3. Warrel Dane Honorable Mention: Wade Black, Ray Alder Female vocalist: 1. TARJA TURUNEN 2. Anneke Van Giersbergen 3. Doro Pesch Guitarist: 1. JOHN PETRUCCI 2. Yngwie Malmsteen 3. Jon Drenning Bassist: 1. JOHN MYUNG 2. Sean Malone 3. Jeff Lords Drummer: 1. MIKE PORTNOY 2. Teddy Moller 3. Mark Zonder Keyboardist: 1. JORDAN RUDESS 2. Matt Guillory 3. Kevin Moore Honorable Mention: Eddy Antonini, Jens Johansson Producer/Team 1. MIKE PORTNOY & JOHN PETRUCCI 2. Jim Morris 3. Neil Kernon Honorable Mention: Andy Larocque & Evergrey Record Label 1. INSIDE OUT 2. Century Media 3. Sensory Honorable Mention: Nuclear Blast Band Most Deserving of a Major Record Deal: 1. EVERGREY 2. Enertia 3. Tie: Crimson Glory Mayadome Honorable Mention: Reading Zero, Nightwish, Iced Earth Band Least Deserving of a Major Record Deal 1. QUEENSRYCHE 2. Limp Bizkit 3. Korn Honorable Mention: Kid Rock, Metallica Rookie: 1. ICE AGE 2. Dali's Dilemma 3. Freedom Call Honorable Mention: Metalium Band You Most Want to See Tour the United States 1. BLIND GUARDIAN 2. Symphony X 3. Crimson Glory Honorable Mention: Pain of Salvation Band You Most Want to See Tour Europe 1. RUSH 2. Crimson Glory 3. Savatage Most Anticipated Disc of 2000: 1. SYMPHONY X- UNTITLED 2. Iron Maiden- untitled 3. Spiral Architect- A Sceptic's Universe Honorable Mention: Digital Ruin- Dwelling in the Out Comeback: 1. DREAM THEATER- METROPOLIS PART II: SCENES FROM A MEMORY 2. Crimson Glory- Astronomica 3. Dokken- Erase the Slate Disappointment disc: 1. QUEENSRYCHE-Q2K 2. Megadeth- Risk 3. Tie: Artension- Forces of Nature Crimson Glory- Astronomica Shit-eater (aka worst) disc 1. QUEENSRYCHE- Q2K 2. Megadeth- Risk 3. Scorpions- Eye to Eye Cover Art 1. DREAM THEATER- METROPOLIS PART II: SCENES FROM A MEMORY 2. Nevermore- Dreaming Neon Black 3. Iced Earth- Alive in Athens Honorable Mention: Evergrey- Solitude*Dominance*Tragedy Queensryche- Q2K Music Vendor 1. LASER'S EDGE 2. CD Now 3. Alta Mira Honorable Mention: Dream Disc Best Music-related Website (other than PM): 1. SEISMIC RADIO 2. Sampletap 3. Melodic Metal Works Honorable Mention: Hard Radio Hall of Fame 1. IRON MAIDEN 2. Dio 3. Rush --------- - Joe D. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:40:22 -0800 (PST) From: Younis Hilal To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Spiral Architect Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Dec 1999 ytsejam@torchsong.com wrote: > From: Rob T Doyle > > Has anyone found a place yet to order this record that should be > MIND-BLOWING!!? Yeah, I'm looking for it too! A few people I've asked have suggested http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/ I can't find the SA CDusing their search engine, but maybe you can special-order it. What I've heard about them is they're expensive (what'd you expect, it's from japan:)), but they deliver pretty fast. > I know it comes out in Japan/Europe on Dec. 18th, and I want to find a > place to import it from- > (plus the euro release has a red-tinted cover rather than the blue-tint > for the US release) Hmmm...I don't know who your source is, but according to http://www.spiralarchitect.com/ Japan and Asia get it on Dec. 16th. Everybody else gets it on Jan. 18th. Younis email_address_removed ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:04:47 -0800 (PST) From: Younis Hilal To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Meshuggah guitar player's side project. Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 ytsejam@torchsong.com wrote: > From: "Dave Peterson" > > Temple of the Jam: > > For those of you looking to sink your teeth into a ball of razor-blades, and > you HAVE all of the Meshuggah albums already (*grin*) let me introduce you > to Fredrik Thordendal's Special Defects. > > He's one of the guitarists for Meshuggah and that's the name of his band. > Album title is "Sol Niger Within". This album is as intense as any Actually, mine is titled "Sol Niger Within Version 3.33". I guess there are 2 versions of this CD, SNW and SNW V3.33. V3.33 has a couple of bonus tracks (one of them is an awesome fusion track). I'd be surprised if there are any of the original SNWs still being sold. If you got yours recently, my guess is yours has those 2 bonus tracks as well. > Meshuggah album (all the f*cked up rhythms are there), but with a slight > twist. He adds more variety to each track. From computer modulation to > multiple vocalists, it keeps the listener's attention. (If you felt > Chaosphere lacked variety, check this one out). His vocalist on this album, Yeah, this CD really does run all over the place. Metal and fusion are two of the most obvious genres that this CD covers. As for some of the other stuff, I just don't know. Like that screaming track (Fredrik's sister, I believe, hehehe). Where does that get categorized?:) Anyway, definitely experimental stuff, and it's hard to picture who else might get into stuff like this. I've had a tough time turning other people on to it. > in my opinion is better than the Meshuggah vocalist. He's got more > personality and, I don't know, just sounds more "wicked". He does sound more "wicked", but the singing barely registers to me. The guitar-playing and drumming in particular are so over-the-top that it's enough to occupy a listener during the whole CD:). This really is one hell of a CD. I listened to it twice just this morning. Younis email_address_removed ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:22:15 -0800 From: Coldfire the Gallery Mistress To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: recommendations, purchases Message-ID: Sasha wrote: > > *lurk mode off* Hiya Sasha! > I've read some reviews about Shadow Gallery's albums... so, just go ahead > and name the one I should start with :-)). I would start with the latest release "Tyranny" THen work back to "Carved in Stone" and then if you find you enjoy those 2 CD's, go look for the self titled debut. Hope this helps! -- Coldfire email_address_removed ICQ: 4656934 http://www.dreamt.org/coldfire The Official Shadow Gallery Mailing List email_address_removed "The way you come to me is such a mystery, I just reach out and connect" - Mystery - Shadow Gallery ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 20:26:34 EST From: email_address_removed To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5226 Message-ID: In a message dated 99-12-10 17:21:15 EST, you write: << Passes are usually only available to music merchants, vendors, etc... but there are ways to get one. >> Um, like buying one in welcome center.... Richie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 21:11:49 EST From: email_address_removed To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Scarred, Rush recommendation Message-ID: To the Jammer who needed the address for the Scarred website, it's at http://www.focusin.com/scarred/. I just sent for The Rudess Experiment after I read all the excellent reviews for it. Can't wait to get it. As for the Jammer who likes Rush's Grace Under Pressure and would like a similar sounding album, I would recommend Signals. It has of course New World Man and Subdivisions on it. But my favorite song off of it is Losing It. Very touching lyrics from Mr. Peart. See ya, The KREWZMAN ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 21:22:50 -0800 From: Jon Kretschmer To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: CD players/Pain of Salvation Message-ID: I bought a Panasonic portable Cd player in 1995 - I've dropped that thing SOOOO many damn times and it still works. I've had my panasonic boombox for at least 6 years and it has withstood MANY forcefull runins with harder and more stationary objects. The sound on both of them is quite impressive too. I recommend panasonic whenever possible. I've NEVER had reliability issues with anything I've ever bought from them. Also - I can't understand these 40 second shock protectors. Mine only has a 10 second shock protection and when it is on, the only way I can get it to skip is to MAKE it skip my shaking it for over 10 seconds...when the hell would you ever do that in real life use? I also want to put in my plug for Pain of Salvation - I picked up Concrete Lake on a whim from MoreMetal a few months ago, and I listened to it nonstop for about two months. I just got Entropia a week ago and I can't get past the first few songs because they are so addictive...Entropia seems more excentric than Concrete, but in the same awesome style and intensity. Jon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 21:24:12 -0600 From: "Jeremy Kube" To: "ytsejam Mailing List" Subject: Signing off for a while.. Message-ID: <000e01bf4387$326e5240$3b05c898@jeremyku> Just figured I'd let y'all that care know.. I'm signing off of this address for a little while and I'll be getting the jam on my aol account (pooh!) anyways, if you need to get in touch with me, please send all mail to email_address_removed thanks! J. Jeremy Kube Junior Transfer Oklahoma State University Fire Protection and Safety Engineering Technology Major email_address_removed email_address_removed "Sex is Death, Death is Sex. It says it right here on my crucifix!" Dream Theater. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 22:11:38 -0700 From: "Korg Ecksthrey" To: Subject: I feel like a kid again.. Message-ID: <002601bf4396$359b7880$message_id_removed> I just want to say that Transformers: The Movie still kicks ass 13 years later. :) Fuck, yeah! And it has a good soundtrack, too. :) Thank you veddy much. -- KorgX3 never realized Eric Idle did Wreck Gar's voice. lol! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 00:41:33 EST From: email_address_removed To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Scarred Message-ID: To the guy looking for the Scarred Records website, here you go: http://www.focusin.com/scarred/ Hope this helps! - Matt T. PS: Just got back from seeing "The Green Mile". INCREDIBLE flick. If you liked "Shawshank Redemption", TGM is a must-see. I loved it! And as an added bonus, at one point during the movie they had the exact same woman's scream that they did on SFAM! I guess MP and the movie director both have the same cool sound effects CD... ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 01:52:11 -0600 From: "Al @ Switchcraft" To: retaehT maerD Subject: Metal Edge's review of SFaM Message-ID: The January 2000 issue of Metal Edge has a VERY positive review of OFB's coveted "Scenes From A Memory" It's well worth reading! For those of you interested in reading the review, I've placed a .zip file on my web page. I scanned the magazine page, saved it in .jpg format, then zipped the image so certain mail clients wouldn't have downloading problems. The image size is 775 x 1060 and is very legible when viewed with the appropriate software. http://www.isd.net/astrosch/sfam.zip I understand some Jammers may have trouble acquiring the magazine so I've made the article accessible to all. If your mail client can't download directly from the above link, try going here: http://www.isd.net/astrosch/music.html page down to the bottom and look for the link. -- Al - The Ytse-ProGtologist ^ Switchcraft Microsystems ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ You come into the world headfirst. You go out feet first. Everything in between is a matter of balance. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 02:54:48 -0600 From: "Al @ Switchcraft" To: retaehT maerD Subject: Re:Portable CD players Message-ID: Chris Jerolamon wrote: >I'm looking for a recomendation for a portable CD player, and in gneral >which brands are more reliable. Personally, I've heard horror stories >about Sony (some of them here), but mine has worked flawlessly for about 5 >year so I'm not sure what to believe. Can any of the resident experts shed >some light on the subject? The best bang for the buck (sub $100.00) is Panasonic's SL-S3600J. It's designed for Jogging and comes with a great waist belt. If you're planning on using your portable primarily for use in a car, other models may be more appropriate. The 3600J can be seen here: http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/shop/product.asp?sku=SL-S3600J For something engineered for use in a vehicle, I'd look at the $110.00 SL-S361C http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/shop/product.asp?sku=SL-S361C All Panasonic models can be found here: http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/shop/listmodels.asp?categoryid=226 In the field of fairly inexpensive portable CD players, Panasonic really does build a better mouse trap... Some of their upper-end models have unsurpassed quality in the world of music-to-go. -- Al - The Ytse-ProGtologist ^ Switchcraft Microsystems ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ When you're swimming in the creek, and an eel bites your cheek, that's a moray! ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 5227 **************************