YTSEJAM Digest 5212 Today's Topics: 1) Re: FII Opinions by email_address_removed 2) Re: FII Opinion- again by email_address_removed 3) Re: FII Opinion- again by email_address_removed 4) lte by Dan Wait 5) Borders (was: Re:advertising for LTE?) by Joe DeAngelo 6) re: fretless slapping by "Paul Fanguy" 7) Re: lte by Peter Geerts 8) Re: Universal Mind in Cologne by Michael Pruchnicki 9) damage inc. by Edward Xuereb 10) Re: 5211/frettless bassplaying by "Jorrit Godeke" 11) Re: damage inc. by "sK@RRe" 12) Re: damage inc. by "Edward Polzin" 13) Levin and other bass related stuff by Dale R Newberry 14) Dream Theater mentioned on DPRP by email_address_removed 15) Spock's Beard by Arash Ashouriha 16) AW: Spock's Beard by Michael Pruchnicki 17) Drummers....Jeff by Stephen LaMonica 18) Re: Spock's Beard by email_address_removed 19) Re: Spock's Beard by "Korg Ecksthrey" 20) Bass Extremes by Greg Kristianson 21) Dream Theater airplay by Marc van der Wal 22) Re: Breaking long songs up into bits & pieces by Andrew Coutermarsh 23) The not so successful attempt of coordinating a project across the Internet by Rogerio Brito ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 22:23:24 EST From: email_address_removed To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: FII Opinions Message-ID: >I've never heard so many fussy listeners complain about various songs of an >album in all of my life!!! I think that most people on this list generally like this album.The point people are making is just that it is not as good as DT'd other albums (at least IMO and many other people's opinions).Besides, it's just that it's no fun to have a list like this just to say all the time that DT is great! We gotta be picky with SOMETHING! lol I for one still rate that album a solid B or B+ >I personally love FII as I do with ever DT release. Sure, some songs are >better than others but overall I think that album has a ton of merit!!!! I agree. I love the album as well, but just not as much as the others. It's all relative. If we compared FII to albums by many other bands, then I'm pretty sure most of us would take FII over the other particular album anyday. And it DOES have a ton of merit. Personally, I love Peruvian Skies, LITS, and Hell's Kitchen. Also, in hindsight I am very glad that they did make that album as it is a change up from their other albums with its own feel to it. -Mike ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 22:34:41 EST From: email_address_removed To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: FII Opinion- again Message-ID: >Yeah, well they've said themselves that they where pressured by the label to >write a "hit," so they were writing to appeal to the label's tastes. Of >course they had no choice, but if they had more control, I'm sure it would've >been a little less song-oriented. >jim You metion some intersting things here. As I mentioned in another post, I do like this album. However, a couple of the songs were written to be "hits" it seems. And I connect this to your comment, "if they had more control, I'm sure it would've been a little less song-oriented." That's an intersting comment.I remember reading an interview in Guitar World with JP when FII came out and he said about it that "we've gotten better at writing songs." Now, when somebody says that, it scares the hell out of me.I;ve heard it before. Becuase, it seems like when somone says "we've gotten better at writing songs" it really means "we think we wrote some hits." Not just with JP saying that but with other bands as well. Anyone else notice that? -mike ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 00:35:12 EST From: email_address_removed To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: FII Opinion- again Message-ID: >< You metion some intersting things here. As I mentioned in another post, I do like this album. However, a couple of the songs were written to be "hits" it seems. And I connect this to your comment, "if they had more control, I'm sure it would've been a little less song-oriented." That's an intersting comment.I remember reading an interview in Guitar World with JP when FII came out and he said about it that "we've gotten better at writing songs." Now, when somebody says that, it scares the hell out of me.I;ve heard it before. Becuase, it seems like when somone says "we've gotten better at writing songs" it really means "we think we wrote some hits." Not just with JP saying that but with other bands as well. Anyone else notice that? >< The quote may very well've been an excuse, who knows. They've always been good song-writers (and by that I mean writing traditional V-C-V-C-B-C, catchy songs and not masturbatory shred-fests). They've always been good song-writers, but they've chosen a different path than that. So while all of the previous albums had FII-like songs, there were only a few of them. Whereas FII has only a few IAW-like songs and is mostly full of traditional, catchy rock/metal. I mean take a listen to songs like Status Seeker, Another Day, To Live Forever, The Silent Man, Space-Dye Vest, etc., which are all songs that focus more on song writing than virtuoso instrumentation. And all these songs are good songs, IMO. So like I say, they've always been good at that. But with FII, they took that route and said "It was a challenge to write for the songs" and "we've become better song-writers." I don't believe that. i think theyve always had that song-writing ability in them and have used it before, successfully. So i do think the band pressured them to write a hit album. but when the band took some heat for FII, they werent gonna so "oh the label made us do it." that'd be career suicide. jim np - the quiet room: introspect ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 22:20:37 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Wait To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: lte Message-ID: Just thought I'd add a little to the LTE advertising thread... almost everyone I know loves them. Many people who don't like prog can get into LTE b/c there's no vocals. I know jazz fans, punk fans, funk fans, thrash metal fans, and even classical fans who dig LTE. With a little advertising, I think LTE could (have, now that they're no longer with us) sold a LOT more. Well all my friends are buying, that's the best I can do :) Prog on -Dan NP: King's X, "Mr. Wilson" ===== "Let light surround you." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 01:25:23 -0500 From: Joe DeAngelo To: YTSEJAM Subject: Borders (was: Re:advertising for LTE?) Message-ID: > We wouldn't call Borders a haven for progressive rock, but for a > mass outlet, it's not a bad choice for occasional browsing. Now > if they'd just take our suggestion and put Porcupine Tree in the > listening post for a while... > > JAJUID Well, as much as I like Borders (for books anyway), the one closest to me SUCKS (well, their music section, I mean). They carry almost NOTHING as far as metal and prog type stuff (the best place around here is a local chain - Harmony House, and Media Play also is quite good). BTW, Borders is always BY FAR the most expensive too, the stuff that's 13.99 and 14.99 at Media Play and others is ALWAYS 16.99 at Borders. - Joe D. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 23:56:45 -0600 From: "Paul Fanguy" To: Subject: re: fretless slapping Message-ID: <000001bf3965$707291e0$message_id_removed> Rock on man!!!!! I know the guy, Steve Meiggs who played bass on Grandmother Spaceship, he's a pastor in Florida, He taught the bassist in my band! Scaterd Few rocks all around, especially their live shows. But yes, they will not have any new material for a long time, most likely for ever since Alan Aguire is focusing on Spy Glass Blue. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 10:56:23 +0100 (CET) From: Peter Geerts To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: lte Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Nov 1999, Dan Wait wrote: > there's no vocals. I know jazz fans, punk fans, funk > fans, thrash metal fans, and even classical fans who > dig LTE. With a little advertising, I think LTE could Punk fans???? LTE (and prog in general) is everything that punk isn't! Either you have some very openminded punk friends, or you really need to explain them what punk is... Furthermore, I don't think it's so weird that people who like classical music may appreciate some LTE. Technical, complex and freaky: same with classical (often at least)... Cheers Zaphod NP: Ayreon - Into The Electric Castle Superior - Younique |Peter Geerts ICQ:13122363 (weekend) "...And for an encore, Man | |email_address_removed.ac.be proved that black is white | |email_address_removed and got himself killed on | |Political Science Student the next zebra crossing..."| |Leuven University, Belgium (Douglas Adams) | ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 14:05:56 +0100 From: Michael Pruchnicki To: "'ytsejam@torchsong.com'" Subject: Re: Universal Mind in Cologne Message-ID: > btw, why do you assume the played more of UM in cologne??? They played the full thing up to the classical piano solo (I got the mp3s of the concert from LITS), while the song was shortened in Nuremberg and in Munich - they went right into the big guitar/ keyboard duel part after about 50 seconds of the tune. - Mike ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 15:24:40 +0100 From: Edward Xuereb To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: damage inc. Message-ID: Hi DT fans !! First of all let me introduce myself ....... my name is Edward, 21 yrs and I've been listening to DT for the last year and a half. Since then they have become my favourite band without any doubt ! I play guitar. I would like to ask a question. Lately I've downloaded a bootleg mp3 - Metallica's Damage Inc. played by DT. Can anyone tell me who's that growling voice ? Is he Charlie Dominici ? Can't be James ! Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 16:07:37 +0100 From: "Jorrit Godeke" To: "ytsejam list" Subject: Re: 5211/frettless bassplaying Message-ID: <003001bf39b3$ee52db80$c59979c3@JorritGodeke> Hello again, everyone! After about a year I decided to get back on the list, so here I am. With a new E-adress. (yeah! finally a decent pop3-account) As to frettles bassplaying, in my opinion, the best way to deal with the intonation is to play frettless on a very regular basis. When you play frettless only occasionally, you will keep having problems with your intonation. It's all a matter of getting used to the positioning of your left hand in order to play in tune all the time. About four years ago I switched to the frettless as my main instrument. In the beginning, I really did not know how to play in tune. I just tried to use the frettless as often as possible. After a while (about 3 years) I started to feel more comfortable on it. At the moment, the fretted bass is even giving me more troubles because IMO it has great limitations in the expression of the notes you play. This is something you only discover after playing frettless for a longer period of time and I'm not just talking about sliding notes without hearing frett-noise. It is certainly true that a fretted bass is more appropriate for certain styles of music where a more direct, punchy sound is wanted. In Dream Theater, for instance. If John Myung would play frettles on all of the songs, you would certainly miss the raw edge sound of a fretted bass. Another issue: What ever happened with the DT-Internet Coverband project wich was started last year? Has some recording taken place? If not, let's put something like that up again. Please mail me back privately if you are one of the persons who were in this last year. Bye for now, Jorrit >----------------------------------------------------------------< Check out http://riffbreak.tripod.com for the new tradition in Dutch progressive rock >----------------------------------------------------------------< ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 16:37:30 +0100 From: "sK@RRe" To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: damage inc. Message-ID: <38414C3A.7BECC034@home.se> Edward Xuereb wrote: > Can anyone tell me who's that > growling voice ? Is he Charlie Dominici ? Can't be James ! It's the singer from Napalm Death. Barney something. Andreas Skarin Svenska Dream Theater S=E4llskapet [ http://sdts.cjb.net ] [ mailto:sdts@home.se ] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 09:41:33 -0600 From: "Edward Polzin" To: Subject: Re: damage inc. Message-ID: <009901bf39b7$13f53a60$0b098ad1@boner> barney from napalm death. > I would like to ask a question. Lately I've downloaded a bootleg mp3 - > Metallica's Damage Inc. played by DT. Can anyone tell me who's that > growling voice ? Is he Charlie Dominici ? Can't be James ! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 10:36:11 -0600 From: Dale R Newberry To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Levin and other bass related stuff Message-ID: Just an interesting thing I saw last night. I was channel surfing in a vain attempt to find anything remotely interesting on the TV when i came across Seal live at the Hard Rock on VH1. I was going to go on past it (I don't dislike Seal, but I'm not a huge fan, either) until I noticed he had Tony Levin on bass. Very cool. Actually, his entire band seemed to be pretty competent. A little question. I'm on a little bit familiar with Steve Bailey, having seen he and Victor Wooten do a bass clinic a little over a year ago. What kind of stuff has he done? Is he mostly a session musician, or has he recorded solo/band stuff? I've heard the name before, and saw him at the clinic (very cool person, both of them). I've also been interested in checking out some Larry Graham. I'm really inot a lot of 70's funk and have been wanting to check him out for some time. Any advice on where to start? Dale R. Newberry ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 11:53:02 EST From: email_address_removed To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Dream Theater mentioned on DPRP Message-ID: I just noticed that Dream Theater is mentioned on the Dutch Progressive Rock Page, whose website is at www.dprp.vuurwerk.nl. They have a page entitled "Counting Out Time" in which they have been reviewing landmark progressive music albums starting from 1967 and finishing with 1999 by the end of the year. For 1992, they have chosen DT's "Images and Words" as that year's landmark album. Yeehaw!!! Maybe we'll pick up some new DT fans. The site is: http://www.dprp.vuurwerk.nl/proghistory/1992.html Later, The Krewzman ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 21:07:09 -0800 From: Arash Ashouriha To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Spock's Beard Message-ID: <384209FD.2042@fh-niederrhein.de> Hi Today, I was listening to all Spock's Beard albums in row (from "The Light" to "Day For Night") and I must say that whith each album they become a little bit less prog and a bit more commercial. Don't get me wrong, I love SB and they are still an awesome band but "The Light" & "Beware Of Darkness" are more progressive then "Kindness Of Strangers" and "Day For Night" IMO of course. Day For night is still a great album with incredible songs like "Day For Night" "Gibberish", "Crack The Big Sky" & the beautiful "Distance To The Sun". The Epic "Healing Colors Of The Sun" is also a killer songs, alldow I would love if they hadn't divided into 6 short parts insted of an epic 20 min track like "Time Has Come", "Flow" or "The Wather". As for songs like "Skin", "The Gipsy" or "Can't Get It Wrong", I think they are good songs but nothing special. Too low for Spock's Beard standarts IMO. Any other oppinions ? Btw, If you like Prog Rock should check out IQ & ARENA from UK. These bands are really great. Marillion fans should love both of them. NP: Voices - DT Tribute (Disc 2) Arash -------------------------------------------------------------------------- | PROG OR DIE - The Progressive Music Page | | | | DREAM THEATER - FATES WARNING - ROYAL HUNT - SHADOW GALLERY | | | | http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/1748/ | |--------------------------------------------------------------------------| | The Eyes Of Universe - The Official EMPTY TREMOR Fan Club Site | | | | http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/1794/ | | | | by Arash and Arman Ashouriha email: email_address_removed.de | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 21:47:53 +0100 From: Michael Pruchnicki To: "'ytsejam@torchsong.com'" Subject: AW: Spock's Beard Message-ID: > The Epic "Healing Colors Of The Sun" is also a killer songs, alldow I would love > if they hadn't divided into 6 short parts insted of an epic 20 min track like > "Time Has Come", "Flow" or "The Wather". What's bad about having an epic piece divided into several tracks you can access directly? If they had put indexes all over The Light or The Water, would the songs be worse just because you could jump right to the Senor Valasco part instead of fast-forwarding? I guess not! > As for songs like "Skin", "The Gipsy" or "Can't Get It Wrong", I think they are > good songs but nothing special. Too low for Spock's Beard standarts IMO. > > Any other oppinions ? Yup. You should listen to The Gypsy again, the ending is totally wicked and totally up to "Beard Standards" IMO. And it's a great live-tune, too! :) - Mike ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 16:27:41 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen LaMonica To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Drummers....Jeff Message-ID: No beef taken...just checked my email in a week.....I have heard Cynic...but I only heard them once about 6 years ago.....I do remember Reinert sounded pretty good..... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 17:34:03 EST From: email_address_removed To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Spock's Beard Message-ID: >< Hi Today, I was listening to all Spock's Beard albums in row (from "The Light" to "Day For Night") and I must say that whith each album they become a little bit less prog and a bit more commercial. Don't get me wrong, I love SB and they are still an awesome band but "The Light" & "Beware Of Darkness" are more progressive then "Kindness Of Strangers" and "Day For Night" IMO of course. Day For night is still a great album with incredible songs like "Day For Night" "Gibberish", "Crack The Big Sky" & the beautiful "Distance To The Sun". The Epic "Healing Colors Of The Sun" is also a killer songs, alldow I would love if they hadn't divided into 6 short parts insted of an epic 20 min track like "Time Has Come", "Flow" or "The Wather". As for songs like "Skin", "The Gipsy" or "Can't Get It Wrong", I think they are good songs but nothing special. Too low for Spock's Beard standarts IMO. >< Nothing commercial about Day For Night. Not only is The Healing Colors of Sound one of their best songs, but even their "commercial" sounding songs aren't commercial. I mean really, how many typical radio listeners would like Skin? Not many judging by it's failure as a single. Go check out Neal Morse's solo album, the best "commercial" sounding album you've ever heard. One of my top 5 of the year. jim np - dishwalla: and you think you know life's about ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 15:41:29 -0700 From: "Korg Ecksthrey" To: Subject: Re: Spock's Beard Message-ID: <001401bf39f1$bbd715c0$message_id_removed> > What's bad about having an epic piece divided into several tracks you > can access directly? If they had put indexes all over The Light or The I totally agree. Imagine of APSoG hadn't been divided up? :P *You see Korg holding down the fast forward button for 5 minutes* What's the big deal? I wish ACoS had been broken out myself. I always love to peel Innocense and Carpe Diem away and make them a standalone track on DT comp. CD's I make for the car. Would've been a helluvalot nicer had they done so. :P Ah, well. To each his own, I suppose. :P -- KorgX3 doesn't want to pee in his toilet having just cleaned it. NP: Lauren Chrisy - s/t ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 16:15:50 -0700 (MST) From: Greg Kristianson To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Bass Extremes Message-ID: Matej, The Bass Extremes book is put together well. It is split up into a lesson section where Steve and Vic discuss and demonstrate the techniques used in each song, and then the song section where each song is transcribed in full, with a few exceptions; vamp sections, intro solo figures, and solo accompaniments are not always scored in full, i.e. the transcriber was feeling *lazy*! I agree with what you say about Steve being the harmonic-god;his solo feature"Moonridge" kills! If you don't already have his instructional books, they are a must! He's twice the teacher as he is a player. If you want to check out Pino Palladino it will entail sitting through some pretty bad brit-pop schlock; he played on a number of albums by Paul Young and Phil Collins through the 80's and early 90's. Some quick song references: Young's "Everytime You Go Away" and Collins' "I Wish it Would Rain Down". Stellar Bassist! I'd try and check him out on the web to get a more detailed discography; I read one in Bass Player several years ago but can't remember alot of the stuff he did. Grp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 01:07:43 +0100 From: Marc van der Wal To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Dream Theater airplay Message-ID: <3841C3CF.134448F0@cable.a2000.nl> Hi there, I'm subscribed to Jamline, which is a Jamiroquai mailing list. Currently, some people were complaining about the lack of airplay Jamiroquai gets on the radio and MTV. I replied that there are a lot of other bands that get even less airplay even though they are pretty big; I mentioned Dream Theater as an example. Anyway, some people from California said that Dream Theater is extremely popular over there, and get a lot of airplay as well. Can this be true?? After reading all about all our problems with radio-stations, recently, I just can't imagine this is true... Marc ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 19:16:55 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Coutermarsh To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Breaking long songs up into bits & pieces Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Nov 1999, Korg Ecksthrey wrote: > I totally agree. Imagine of APSoG hadn't been divided up? :P *You see > Korg holding down the fast forward button for 5 minutes* That's what I hate about some classical things - if I want to get to a certain movement, depending on what recording it is and what the sound editor wanted, it could be all one track. What a bitch. > What's the big deal? I wish ACoS had been broken out myself. I > always love to peel Innocense and Carpe Diem away and make them a > standalone track on DT comp. CD's I make for the car. Would've been a > helluvalot nicer had they done so. :P To tell the truth, I thought it made a hell of a lot more sense to break the two opening tracks in OIALT. I had thought about re-burning ACOS onto a different CD and making it separate tracks, but I didn't REALLY see the point of that, since I usually listen to it all the way through. But sometimes, I REALLY want to hear Another World, since it's probably my favorite song from ACOS (why don't they EVER do that one live?). > KorgX3 doesn't want to pee in his toilet having just cleaned it. Dude, if you flush it RIGHT away, then you don't have to worry. It's when you leave it sitting there for days like my brother does when you have to clean it soon. :) /me is sure that you didn't need to hear all that about his brother, but it pretty sure that he doesn't care anyway. ;) ------------------------------------------------- Andrew Coutermarsh email_address_removed http://cout.dhs.org/ Cloak on IRC ICQ: 2513441 ------------------------------------------------- I like to go down to the dog pound and pretend that I've found my dog. Then I tell them to kill it anyway because I already gave away all of his stuff. Dog people sure don't have a sense of humor. ------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 13:58:02 -0200 From: Rogerio Brito To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: The not so successful attempt of coordinating a project across the Internet Message-ID: On Nov 28 1999, Jorrit Godeke wrote: > > Hello again, everyone! > > What ever happened with the DT-Internet Coverband project wich was started > last year? > Has some recording taken place? > If not, let's put something like that up again. Well, it was me that started the project and that was maintainig the mailing list. The project didn't succeed due to the lack of communication between the parts involved, despite the plain availability of resources. In fact, some people were almost done writing/recording their stuff, while others were always saying they'd record something, but did nothing. I guess that the Internet community that produces free software is slightly more focused on their objectives, as we've had some excellent software (the Linux kernel, for instance) developed across the whole world. []s, Roger... -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - email_address_removed - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/ Nectar homepage: http://www.linux.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/opeth/ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 5212 **************************