YTSEJAM Digest 5081 Today's Topics: 1) SPOCK'S BEARD in Italy by mario_ottaviani@schneiderelectric.it 2) Type O and it's progressive tendencies by Amanda Rosenblum 3) Re: TON by "Tanja Sorsa" 4) RE: broken plastic jewel-case thingies by "Herbert, Jason" 5) Re: Type O album problems by Breaker 19 6) ranges by CyberDuke 7) Re: M 3's (oop's, I dropped a bit) by TheCowGod 8) "I&W" blunders by "Fran Brennan" 9) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5080 by "Christopher W. Ptacek" 10) MP3 by "Jason Birzer" 11) Re: ranges by "Andy Putman" 12) *** LAST WEEK *** by "Rene Janssen" 13) Type O Negative by email_address_removed 14) Re: Petrucci Clinic by "Sasha" 15) MP3 noise by Steffen Barabasch 16) Re: MP3 Encoders by Trent 17) Planet X thing by email_address_removed 18) ability to hear sound frequencies: decreasing as we grow older by Wes Foll 19) guilty of not being a Beatles fan 8-) by Wes Foll 20) The Moon Revisited All Over Again by "Neil Evans" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:46:23 +0200 From: mario_ottaviani@schneiderelectric.it To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: SPOCK'S BEARD in Italy Message-ID: Hello guys, it's the first time I write to you and this is the right time to begin speaking about the Spock's Beard concert in Italy last night 23/09/99. They were amazing!!! They embraced all the albums made, from "The Light" to the last "Day for Night". It's just the song 'day for night' that opens the show and it's great. Dave (I can't remember his surname) the Alan Morse substitute made a big job even if sometimes his guitar seemed to be not in tune.The other songs come directly from the last album: the pop-prog first single 'Skin' and then 'Gibberish' with its complicated choir where each members of the band sing a part. From 'The kindness of Strangers' they made 'in the mouth of madness' and'June' where Nick d'Virgilio (the drummer),as always, sang the second voice. Ryo Okumoto enjoied us with a funny and amazing solo with his 'guitar-keyboard' but the surprise is when he runs into crowd and continue to play!!! Other great songs came later as 'the Gypsy', 'Go the way you go' (incredible the jazz piano solo) and 'The doorway' where in its 20 minutes Neal Morse and Nick d'Virgilio made a fantastic bluesy duet with their acoustic guitar and closed the first part of the concert. They restarted with the monumental 'The light', the manifesto of the progressive rock. The Beard made a break again and with 'Waste Away/Fire' they closed the show after about 2 hours. After the end of the show each members came out to sign the autographs and make photo with all the fans. By the way, we were less then I expected (about 200), but surely very good. At last a suggestion: if you don't know Spock's Beard go buy their CDs and you will realize what I felt yesterday evening!!! Ciao, MARIO ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 04:37:41 -0700 From: Amanda Rosenblum To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Type O and it's progressive tendencies Message-ID: Hold your horses, prog snobs, I just thought I'd have a clever subject. The subject refers to my attitude as I listened to this disc. I had someone play OR for me about 2 years back and didn't remember anything. I figured I'd pick up the new one. This is how my thoughts progressed as I listened to World Coming Downward, in chronological order. 1st response: *smack the cd player* because it has been malfunctioning a lot and I didn't realize that what sounded like skipping was supposed to be there. 2nd: Lol, it sounds like Bela Lugosi music. 3rd: God, Pete Steele has the opposite of Geddy Lee syndrome. He needs a good kick in the family jewels so can he can stop the scary voice. It should have been called "Slow, Deep, and Spooky" (JTMN ref for ya) 4th: Hmm.. this song is cool 5th: Ok, I've found some redeeming qualities. I think I got my $10.99's worth 6th: Beatles, eh? This is almost as disturbing as Al Jourgenson covering the "If you want my body and you think I'm sexy" song. This has been another presentation brought to you by-- ~~The inner workings of Amanda's mind ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:14:33 EET From: "Tanja Sorsa" To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: TON Message-ID: <5EBA496D7E@fng.fi> Amanda - my TON cd had the same problem, all of those hmmm "thingies" broken. I just thought I had accidentally done something to it myself, but I guess it might be a bigger problem. Excellent CD, btw! Tan http://snap.to/Tenze stop trying to hit me and hit me! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:57:03 -0400 From: "Herbert, Jason" To: "'ytsejam@torchsong.com'" Subject: RE: broken plastic jewel-case thingies Message-ID: <6D70903196D4D11190680008C728A61D026B19D5@HQEXS01> I have frequently had this problem with the little CD-holding-prong thingies in jewel cases. This problem is almost exclusive to the cases that have clear trays, rather than the usual gray/black/whatever colored ones. The reason is that the clear plastics are harder and more brittle than the opaque ones (they have a higher durometer). This is pretty much unavoidable. As a result they break much more easily. I've had more than one CD that had been scratched by these little pieces of plastic -- badly enough that those CD's skip when played. So now, whenever I buy a CD -- especially one with a clear tray -- I give it a little shake to make sure the CD's not sliding around loose in there. I also buy and keep some extra jewel cases around for when these things break.... Zircon the Blue ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:17:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Breaker 19 To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Type O album problems Message-ID: In regards to comments by Amanda and Tugmutton: I noticed when I went to get the Type O CD that most all of them had cracked jewel cases, so I just looked for one that was ok, but I went home and opened it up, and there was what appeared to be a big dried up loogie. Maybe it was a gift from Peter himself, but I didn't appreciate it. So I took the 2 minute walk to my local Best Buy and returned it. Great CD, by the way, as I've had a copy for almost a month now. Just imagine how confused the people who bought this thing on tape were after hearing the skip track! But now that I think about it, I'd rather have waited until the release day to hear the album. When the CD finally came out, I knew it all already. So I'm going to keep my next DT album knowledge to a minimum until it comes out...though the wait is killing me. Ciao bruthas and sistas. C# -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- -+ Christian Kremo +- -+ A-Frame bassist +- -+ http://www.3dnow.net/aframe +- -+ email_address_removed +- -+ ICQ UIN: 12587729 +- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:47:13 +0200 From: CyberDuke To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: ranges Message-ID: > From: Brian Hansen > > The article I read indicated that the loss of frequencies outside > that range are what causes digital music to sound "unnatural". Errrr... are we talkin' about the 20hz-20khz range? Because if that's it, how come it sounds unnatural to a human being, if we don't hear outside of the range? > From: Matej Grginic > Subject: Petrucci clinic > YEAH!!!! Petrucci is coming to Slovenia on Oct 22nd. > I guess every dog gets its day! :) You sleezy lucky punk!!!! :) -- CyberDuke ________________________________________________ "What do you think about it?" "Shocking!" "Yeah, but do you think it was funny?" "Of course not! That would be REALLY shocking!" The 2 balcony fossils, "The Muppet Show" ________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:57:46 -0400 (EDT) From: TheCowGod To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: M 3's (oop's, I dropped a bit) Message-ID: > From: "Al @ Switchcraft" > Subject: M 3's (oop's, I dropped a bit) > > > Chris Pt.. Pta.. Ptac.. Ptacek wrote: > >And I long to own a cassette tape deck that sounds as clear as a > >128kbps MP3. > > No prob. Get a Revox B710 mkII. With the appropriate tape correctly > biased, and the record level just below the tape's saturation threshold, > you would easily have a signal-to-noise ratio better than an MP3. The .. > Tandberg also had one cassette deck in the same class as the Revox. > I forget the model. Another great little recorder is the Tascam 122 MK III. > The Tascam is not quite as refined as the offerings from Revox or Tandberg, > but at $1,350.00 (a grand less than the others) it's unparalleled in it's price ok, i'm sure you get great quality from those tape decks, and as an audiophile i'm sure its a good purchase. but... winamp is free. and you dont have to calibrate it to the mp3s. and you have random access. while we all now know that it is POSSIBLE to find a tape deck that sounds as good as an mp3, its still not a practical alternative. moo. *** END OF TRANSMISSION *** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:11:52 PDT From: "Fran Brennan" To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: "I&W" blunders Message-ID: that crappy jewel case thing has happened to me millions of times, most notably from Amazon.com. What's really weird, though, is what happened with "I&W". The first time I popped it in my CD player, I was greeted with AC/DC's "Back in Black"...said "I&W" on the CD, but it was definitely not DT (for about thirty second before the vocals kicked in, I was thinkin' "man, they've sure evolved since then"=^)...I took the CD back and got a real copy of I&W, and then, a year and a half later, my freind went to the same store to buy I&W, and sure enough, he got AC/DC. Is this a well known problem that I'm just too ignorant to know about? -Banjoman np: Gary Willis-Bent (saw him last night! INSANE!!!!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Face the knowledge that the truth is not the truth - Rush ______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:28:35 -0500 From: "Christopher W. Ptacek" To: Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5080 Message-ID: <000f01bf06b2$5a592440$013ca8c0@madstation> > From: "Simon Long Krogh" > First of all: To all you audiophiles, who say that mp3 sounds like crap, I > can only say: Too bad for you! When I listen to mp3's via my SoundBlaster > Live! through my stereo, I can't tell the difference between mp3 and CD. I don't think you really want to hear the answer to this, but I'll talk anyways. I guess a LOT of people are dogging on the SBLive's AD/DA converters. Don't get me wrong, they're fine to use, and I'd use em happily (in fact, I am using a SB as the output for my cds to my monitors in my little prject studio) but they're WAY below pro quality. And it stands to reason that you WOULDN"T hear the difference, even if you were one of the bad asses here who can, because you're probably play your cds through your cd drive, using the SBLive for output still. Al: > Chris Pt.. Pta.. Ptac.. Ptacek wrote: God Bless You. > >And I long to own a cassette tape deck that sounds as clear as a > >128kbps MP3. > > No prob. Get a Revox B710 mkII. With the appropriate tape correctly > biased, and the record level just below the tape's saturation threshold, > you would easily have a signal-to-noise ratio better than an MP3. The > frequency response would be fairly flat from 20 Hz to 16 KHz without > all of the little sonic holes MP3's introduce. Well, first of, I normally bow to your expertise in this aera, but there's no way the Signal to noise ratio is correct. Every time you play a tape it demagnetizes, and looses a bit more sound quality. There's no way I am aware of to avoid this, since recording magnetizes a tape, and the playback heads are themselves, magnets. So every time you listen to your tape it gets muddier. Then, consider the fact that MP3s are copies of the cd. Every time you copy a tape, the new one loses 6db of signal, which is replaced with noise. The only way an MP3 will gain noise is if the ripping process adds it, which it shouldn't, or if the encoder's codec is made to not only remove frequencies, but to add noise too... which I doubt. Tape is warmer, and it is constant, instead of sampled, but it will always run into these problems, and CASSETTE tapes are always going to be massively inferior to cd. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:51:36 -0400 From: "Jason Birzer" To: Subject: MP3 Message-ID: >Care to put your best digital formats against my O L D analog Revox >A77 mk IV (30 ips) reel-to-reel recorder? You'll loose. It's really >a shame that machine only has power applied to it once a month or >so.. CD's are just too damn convenient. And that's probably the main reason CDs became popular. Very portable, very durable and can skip from track to track. The quality of digital recordings are all dependant on the sampling rate. There is usually some information lost in the translation. Still being a LP fan, I definitly like the analog sound, but as Al said, CDs are far more convenient. As for the person who can't tell the difference between MP3 and CDs, I guess you don't listen very carefully. Or maybe you're listening on those crappy computer speakers you have. I like MP3 for what it is: a way to hear a good sample of music in a downloadable format on computer. It is very good to sample music, but when I want to hear it on a regular basis, I'll buy the CD... Jason ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:51:14 CDT From: "Andy Putman" To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: ranges Message-ID: >Errrr... are we talkin' about the 20hz-20khz range? Because if that's >it, how come it sounds unnatural to a human being, if we don't hear >outside of the range? You may not actually hear it, but you do sense it on some level. It adds to the 'feel' of the actual live instruments, though it's subtle enough that many people don't notice it. -Andy Putman ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:24:41 +0200 From: "Rene Janssen" To: Subject: *** LAST WEEK *** Message-ID: Hi, Just to let you know, next week will be the last week to order your = tickets of the ProgPower festival online through the website. The last = week to make a chance to win some great prizes, so check out the website = and order your tickets now! On 2 October 1999, the regular ticket sales = will start.=20 ProgPower will take place on Sunday 14 November 1999 in hall 013, Tilburg, = The Netherlands. The next 10 bands will perform on 2 stages : THRESHOLD (uk), PAIN OF SALVATION (swe), EVERGREY (swe), SANVOISEN (ger), = SUPERIOR (ger),=20 LEMUR VOICE (hol), HARROW (hol), SYMMETRY (hol), PAYNE S GRAY (ger), = WOLVERINE (swe). Besides the bands, you can expect a lot more, hall 013 has so many=20 possibilities, we will use all of them. It s absolutely the best venue in = The Netherlands, probably one of the best venues in Europe. So be there on = 14 November 1999. THANKS! Greetings, Rene Janssen http://www.progpower.com/=20 email_address_removed=20 PROGPOWER 1999 c/o Rene Janssen Vergelt 5a 5991 PJ BAARLO The Netherlands fax: +31 774778310 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =20 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:46:30 EDT From: email_address_removed To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Type O Negative Message-ID: >>Anyone else have this problem, out of curiosity? >>~~Amanda >Mine was just fine, actually... though for a split second after I had put >the disc in my stereo I thought that something was wrong with my CD player, >until I remembered the track title from their webpage. :) > - Wolfric Tugmutton email_address_removed Yeah Skip It ;-) Just a little joke from Peter and the guys - like Bad Ground which is the first track on October Rust. We actually get to hear some nice tuneful bass playing on the new album due to Peter's Fernandes sustainer bass, especially on Creepy Green Light and All Hallows Eve. Just as a matter of interest, Josh Silver (looks like Rowlf) uses Kurzweil amongst other kb gear.......... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:13:24 +0200 From: "Sasha" To: "Ytsejam Mailing List" Subject: Re: Petrucci Clinic Message-ID: <005901bf06c1$0323dd00$aee81dc3@sasa> >From: Matej Grginic >YYEAH!!!! >Petrucci is coming to Slovenia on Oct 22nd. >I guess every dog gets its day! :) where?!?! I`m there! :-))))))))))) mail me the info please... oh man, this sounds incredibly cool! p.s. BtW, no-one answered my question on release date for new Malmsteen album? :-) "Lifting shadows off a dream Once broken She can turn a drop of water Into an ocean..." John Myung of Dream Theater ["Lifting Shadows Off A Dream"] email_address_removed.hr http://chronosphere.zambizzi.com ICQ UIN - 6098813 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 00:02:44 +0200 From: Steffen Barabasch To: Ytsejam Subject: MP3 noise Message-ID: >I was just wondering if it's just my imagination, or do MP3's recorded in >Joint Stereo have an odd "sizzling" sound to them. Anyone know what I'm >talking about? Use a slightly higher bit rate, 160-192kbps usually are sufficient for virtually original sounding MP3s. And, a LOT more important: Use a better encoder. Anything with the original Fraunhofer encoder will do. Damn slow, but SO much better. To all of you who think they can still hear artifacts even at higher bitrates: Use another encoder, and be enlightened ;-) Steffen -- Steffen Barabasch (mailto:email_address_removed) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:07:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Trent To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: MP3 Encoders Message-ID: With all this talk of mp3s, encoders and Al's comments on why analog is best, I found myself wondering what the best rippers and encoders are. And now, for your viewing pleasure, I submit to you what I've used to make mp3s. Here we go. For ripping .wav files from a CD, I've sworn by Virtuosa Gold. To my ear (tone deaf, non-audiophile) the mp3s sound pretty good. Lately I've been using 48,000 Hz, 16 bit, Stereo, 188 kb/s setting. I moved that up from a slightly lower setting. The files sound better now than before, which weren't bad (again, to my tone deaf ear). For encoding, I use MusicMatch Jukebox just for the sake of convenience. I've used this to rip .wav files with lackluster results, but as an encoder it performs it's function. Okie, so I'd bet I'm using one quality product (Virtuosa Gold) but I want to do some comparisons between rippers and encoders. Anybody know where I can get some good ones? Preferrably free... Thanks! ===== *Trent "Life is like a nacho; if it gets to cheesy, it's your own fault." Me "There's a lot of people coming up to me and they say 'hey Eddie, remember me from high school?' Hey, man, I've smoked a lot of pot since then. I don't know who the fuck you are." Eddie Vedder, 11-2-93, San Diego __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:20:28 EDT From: email_address_removed To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Planet X thing Message-ID: Since the name of the band is Derek Shirinian and the albums name is Planet X I dont think it will be a problem. Speaking of Planet X I dont know if this has been talked about, but I think its the seventh song is actually a jam that Dream Theater did after Metropolis in the medley of OIAL with DS in the band. that could make for a legal battle also I guess but I dont know for sure. Charlie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:48:56 -0700 From: Wes Foll To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: ability to hear sound frequencies: decreasing as we grow older Message-ID: >From: Brian Hansen >Wear earplugs and don't turn it up too loud kids.. Not to mention the fact that as we grow older, the hearing goes no matter what. That on top of all the other ways to lose hearing is a factor. /me whips out the handy 1999 Giancoli Physics textbook and quotes "The human ear responds to frequenceis in the range from about 20 Hz to about 20,000 Hz....One general trend is that as people age, they are less able to hear the high frequencies, so that the high-frequency limit may be 10,000 Hz or less." Which reminds me that in my physics class last autumn quarter, the professor did an experiment with high-pitched frequencies, to see who could hear the highest ones (as if he didn't already know the youngest people would). He told people to raise their hands when they were able to hear it, (as he slowly turned the frequency down from where nobody could hear it) and the youngest ones were the first to do so. He was the last. I was somewhere before the middle group of people. I was 23 then, and I'd say the people who raised their hands first were around 18 or 19 (freshmen age). SO basically what I'm trying to say here is that people seem to lose their range of frequencies even at younger ages, and therefore even people our age (and especially the older jammers among us...) will hear our music in different qualities. Take that for what it is worth. 8-) ------------------------------------------------------ I wonder how much deeper the oceans would be without sponges. Wesley Foll, Geology B.S., Loma Linda University http://www.redrival.com/wesfoll/main.html email_address_removed email_address_removed email_address_removed ICQ #4550740 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:00:35 -0700 From: Wes Foll To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: guilty of not being a Beatles fan 8-) Message-ID: >From: "Simon Long Krogh" >>> -Type O Negative: Day Tripper >>What band originally did that song? I wasn't aware it was a cover. >Jesus! where were you 30 years ago??? (I, myself, was waiting to be born 12 >years later :)) Day Tripper was originally by The Beatles. Hehe. I've been alive for 24 years, and never really dug or listened to the Beatles, so there ya go. 8-) Waiting for the big s and p waves to hit again in Southern California! WEEEEE!!! (the next big earthquake) ------------------------------------------------------ I wonder how much deeper the oceans would be without sponges. Wesley Foll, Geology B.S., Loma Linda University http://www.redrival.com/wesfoll/main.html email_address_removed email_address_removed email_address_removed ICQ #4550740 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 00:13:46 -0700 From: "Neil Evans" To: Subject: The Moon Revisited All Over Again Message-ID: <000701bf0725$835da500$decaaec7@default> Paul Evans wrote of "The Moon Revisited" >And I am a big Pink >Floyd fan, but this CD is just kind of "flat" and lifeless to me. I think >maybe I'm just so used to hearing the original that the tribute sounds >wrong >to me... I agree completely. I was at first really intrigued to hear this album, liking most of the bands listed on it. After listening to it I really appreciated how inimitable the original Dark Side of the Moon really is. The Rush tribute is cool, and I've heard great things about the ELP tribute. Avoid this one, IMO. -Neil. ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 5081 **************************