YTSEJAM Digest 4929 Today's Topics: 1) x by Isaac Trumbo 2) This is my first go, PLEASE HELP by Yogi Bearstorky 3) new 3DDTstuff and RE: Spock's and some other shizola by "Simon Long Krogh" 4) Many things by "Giannotti, Nick" 5) A few more comments Petrucci and Kurzweil by "Vaughn, Brandon" 6) Keyboard gear by "Sami Poimala" 7) I have heard the new DT . . . by "Vaughn, Brandon" 8) rammstein by "Robert A. Jurado, MPH" 9) dissension is the tension it's what we've learned to hate by Jon Parmet 10) More Musings on Mr. Myung by TEDESCO MATTHEW A ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:40:51 GMT From: Isaac Trumbo To: email_address_removed Subject: x Message-ID: believe it or not both Kings X and the Galactic Cowboys are "full-fledged Christian" bands.. embodyment and zao are both pretty cool too.. embodyment is a hellava lot like meshuggah.. all those weird pollyrhythms and such.. inferno NP: prefab sprout - two wheels good korg said: >Well, I have to admit that I >do< like Savior Machine. Next to a few odds >and ends songs in my collection, they're the only full-fledged Christian >band I really have been able to listen to. I suppose Christian music as a >whole shouldn't be the idea of what I don't like, but hymnals themselves... >Anyway, if we mention the word Christian anymore on this list, I'm afraid >Michael Coghlan will return, so let's stop right here. :) Dan (The Cow God) >also recommended Tourniquette as well. I'll have to check >them out, too. :) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 05:02:39 PDT From: Yogi Bearstorky To: email_address_removed Subject: This is my first go, PLEASE HELP Message-ID: Hey all. If this gets to ppl then i spose i have the right addy. Here goes. A friend of mine is quite a good drummer, and he wants to enter a drumming competition in Australia, A Billy Hydes comp. My friend wants to play "A change of seasons", and would like a copy of the song WITHOUT drums in it, a backing track for the comp. Maybe MP3 or Midi even. if anyone could help i would sincerely appreciate it. thanks ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:23:56 +0200 From: "Simon Long Krogh" To: "The Ytsejam Mailinglist" Subject: new 3DDTstuff and RE: Spock's and some other shizola Message-ID: <003f01bebcaa$5c6d9420$4ac88e81@flskesteg> Christopher Ptacek wrote: 'kay...maybe I went a little over the top but I really do LOVE JM. >>WOWOWOW... how do you come to this conclusion? The E.T. finger "Econony of motion is nothing to me" technique?<< Would it matter if he used the back of his right hand fingers on a right hand bass as long as it sounded the same? >>The complete inability to take a meaningful solo?<< I don't think that he's ever done a solo with DT apart from Metropolis nor do I think that I've ever missed one. I'ts only good that he can see that bass solos usually aren't DT-material. >>The guy is an excellent songwriter, and a good bassist in the "behind the band" sense, but the only time he meaningfully takes the center is Metropolis, and only for like... a second. He's a good bassist, but he's sloppy,<< SLOPPY????? Hell, no! Let's have an example! >>has probably improved the least out of all the members since I&W<< If we replace the 'least' with 'most', I totally agree! >>and is WAY overrated on the Stick (which he'd probably admit since he's rather new to it).<< SO *beep*'ing what? Stick....bass see a difference??? >>I could name 10 bassists off the top of my head who I think are leaps and bounds beyond him (and I have in past threads of this nature).<< 'Who YOU think are leaps and bounds...' right! And I (me) think that JM is the best bassist I've ever heard and assumed that since most of the other people here, more or less, share my musical taste, felt the same way. But please pivate mail me the 'perfect 10'...but PRIVATE...let's not set of another topXX wave! >>No offense to any of you pedestal pushers out there.<< Well, ok...maybe I went a bit over the top.. But now, for something comepletely different: I've just done my 10th 3Dmajesty-pic...enjoy. As always they're at http://hjem.get2net.dk/finn2/dtpics Take care now, bye-bye then Simon Long Krogh NP: Britney Spears - Baby one more time (would somebody PLEASE turn off that damn radio?!?!?) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:08:04 -0400 From: "Giannotti, Nick" To: "'email_address_removed'" Subject: Many things Message-ID: Ptacek and I kept our friendly banter going on with, >Which one? Not that jam Mike Swiped from Myung's video, right? It very well could be - I've never seen the video, but I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Mike did pull it. Though the quality made it sound more like something that was recorded on a 4-track w/a drum machine than something taken from a video. It was on Precious Things, if I recall correctly. Anyways, as I haven't seen it, I can't say whether he's flubbing the notes at the end or not. :) >I also consider that "click" sound he gets with some >of his "pizz" attacks (but not all) to be sloppy technique, as it seems to >appear at random, and does dramatically detract from the tone (Gary Willis >of Tribal Tech explains a lot about the dynamics of right hand technique >on bass, and how it affects tone and precision... check out his vid and >some of his interviews). And I believe I beat you to the punch in >explaining his newness to the Stick. :) Ah, the infamous bass 'click' - I had to work for YEARS to get rid of that. The times I've seen him play, I've only heard the click a few times, which, IMO, is pretty good. I don't know if I should attribute this to his playing or said click being buried in the mix, though, so this could still be up in the air with me. :) >Not everyone. :) IMO: Gary Willis, John Patitucci, O'Teil, >Victor Wooten, Manring, Jaco, John Onder, Aldrete (I think I'm misspelling >that, but I'm referring to the dude from Racer X), Sean Malone, Bill >Dickens, Steve Bailey, Jimmy Earl, Jeff Berlin (though I hate to say it, >since he's the Yngwie of bass), Tony Franklin, Dave LaRue, Barry Sparks, >Skuli, Stu "Same Solo every time" Hamm, Billy Sheehan, Jimmy Johnson, etc >are all superior bassists. > Anybody will get called "The best bassist ever" by some fans of >the band. That's not necessarily bad, but I think it's likely due to a >lack of exposure. It's John Alderete. And he's smoking, but I've only heard his stuff with Racer X, which was speed for speed's sake. I'd have LOVED to hear something more melodic from him (please bear in mind that the only thing that's coming into my head right now is his live solo off their first live album and the song "Hammer Away"). :) Jeff Berlin I can't stand, only because he's so friggin' high on himself, and for the most part, I'm pretty into the rest of the bassists that you mention. Though I'm not sure if Stu plays the same solo every time. I do know, however, that he can drink with the best of them. :) In another Jam, Ptacek said, >So Petrucci takes a solo break at a live show, and shows off some chops. >Portnoy does too. Derek even had a thing going on before LitS. Why isn't >there EVER something like this from Myung? My conclusion is that this is >because he simply isn't that innovative in that respect. Possibly - though I think his philosophy on bass may be reflective of his personality that we see of him in the video's: just shut up, don't draw attention to yourself, and do your job. On OiaL, he's all over the place with these little fills that never quite made it to the album. Maybe that's a strength of his as opposed to a full-blown solo? Just a thought. >This ends up making me look >like my whole idea here is to knock Myung, who I often enjoy listening to... >it's not. My purpose here is to offer that he's not what whoever it was was >trying to paint him to be. I'm sorry it's blown up to such a big deal. AMEN, bro. This thread can now die. :) Then, mikel contradicted himself and said, >For a start, there is not really such a thing as Christian music. Next paragraph... >A friend of mine is also always giving me Christian tapes... Any questions? :) Then, Michael Zachariadis said, >Well Trent first of all never, ever say that I&W was a good or a pretty good album. Doesn't that strike you as a little bit Soviet? "You. Don't say this. Don't ever say this. Bad dog. No bone." >Yeah! I always thought this too! How can art be labeled anyway??? :( >There isn't a store that doesn't make moronic mistakes with placing CDs. >I mean, finding Brand X on the pop shelf??? :( The punks obviously >thought of that because of Phil Collins name but who can blame them? 90% >of the folks are not aware how good drummer this dude is, or that once >upon a time there was this band BRAND X, which is one of the best jazz >rock/fusion IMHO? Let's say you're just getting into Phil Collins. Wouldn't it be easier to put Brand X under Phil and cross-reference it to Brand X in the jazz section? That's how we used to do it at Tower - they still do, in fact. My, I had a lot to say this time around. And without MIME! :) -Nick Nicholas Giannotti x6745 Joint STARS Contracts email_address_removed ---------------------------------- Out the token ring, through the router, down the fiber, off a switch, past the firewall, down the T1 ... nothing but Net. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:12:42 -0500 From: "Vaughn, Brandon" To: email_address_removed Subject: A few more comments Petrucci and Kurzweil Message-ID: <41303F74D60DD111B56500609778A79C645922@chipola.cc.fl.us> Someone already mentioned this, but now even Kevin has (seemingly) given up all other keyboards except for Kurzweil. And a K2000 at that! (the low end model) So here you have 2 DT keyboardist who are now using Kurzweil exclusively. And with regards to Derek, you'll notice in his equipment list on his web page that he even has a Kurzweil rack unit. So, every keyboardist for DT uses a Kurzweil in some way. Again, not to say that Kurzweil is THE only keyboard. I'm sure you can get some really great sounds out of Roland and Korg products. I would gladly have stacks and stacks of keyboards myself. The more the merrier. But if I did have to go down to just _one_ keyboard, I would have to choose a K2500X just simply because with enough programming knowledge you can get just about anything you want out of it (not to mention 128 megs of sample RAM, 2 gig internal hard drive, 32 meg piano ROM, Lexicon type effects, . . .) It is just an amazing instrument! But if you are looking for a quick way to get into rock keyboards (meaning lead keyboards) . . . then Roland or Korg is better because it gives you those sounds right off the bat. No programming knowledge necessary. Plug and chug. But the power inside a Kurzweil instrument . . . And what other keyboard companies make major upgrades to the keyboard and then offer them free to customers? What other keyboards come with around 3 hours of in-depth video instruction? (From Jordan Rudess nonetheless!) To me, though, I would think it a major downer if Jordan started using Roland and Korg stuff. I would rather him stick with what he has now, or . . . add the Mellotrons, Moog, Hammond, and Arp stuff. I would much rather hear that stuff on a DT album than a room full of Kurz, Roland, and Korg stuff. (Wow, it sounds like I am 60 years old or something . . I'm really 29 . . . promise!). About Petrucci (again): ---------------------------------- Wow, you can really hear some strange things out of Petrucci now. And it has to all be because of gear. I swear I'm hearing more harmonized lines from him on LTE2 (probably from the Eventide -- that is an Eventide in his rack). And it surely sounds like he is using a Whammy pedal too. Lots of strange noises too. I guess that is what technology does to you. Not that this is bad . . . just weird hearing it come from Petrucci. The one thing I wish he would do, is get Ibanez to develop a sustainer like Fernandez has and use that. That would be an awesome addition to his setup. Listen to Steve Hackett's recent live album to hear the awesome possibilities of this. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:22:09 +0300 From: "Sami Poimala" To: Subject: Keyboard gear Message-ID: <001d01bebcba$9cb88570$message_id_removed.fi> While reading a LOT of argues about keyboards, I decided to throw in my gear. I'm currently using Roland JV-90 (w/ "Keyboards of 60's / 70's" and "Grand Piano" -patch card ) and Korg N264 and am damn satisfied with these! Maybe they are not as well programmable as Kurzes, but the total amount, and quality, of stock sounds makes my mind get lost when selecting the second patch ... :) --== Sami Poimala --== www.jyu.fi/~spoimala ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:19:33 -0500 From: "Vaughn, Brandon" To: email_address_removed Subject: I have heard the new DT . . . Message-ID: <41303F74D60DD111B56500609778A79C645924@chipola.cc.fl.us> I have heard the new DT . . . it is called "When the Water Breaks" off of LTE2! That is an AWESOME song! And if anyone is doubting Jordan Rudess' ability, listen to this. It says in the notes that he practically wrote the whole music part to this. Petrucci had to play catch-up when he got back. (Levin did write a little bit of it) Moreover, the notes say that Jordan wrote some of the awe-inspiring, kick-your-but across town parts with DT in mind (in particular in a Metropolis feel). 16 minutes of full glory! And in the beginning when the whole band kicks in . . . wow. I'm thinking, "If this is how Jordan writes with DT in mind . . . WOW!" Does anyone find it strange how secretive the band is being about the new album? Makes you wonder. Meaning, it makes you wonder if our loyalty to the band is a little bit on the abrasive side that the band fears giving us details now for what people on this list might do (petitions, hate mail, flames, . . .). Would be sad if that was the case. I loved the days when we would get frequent updates about the process of things. But we know almost nothing about this album. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 22:45:49 +0700 From: "Robert A. Jurado, MPH" To: ytsejam Subject: rammstein Message-ID: anyone listen to rammstein? My only experience with them is the track on soundtrack to "The Matrix." Is their stuff all like that? Anyone have any mp3s on their site, or whatever? -rob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:49:36 +0000 From: Jon Parmet To: email_address_removed Subject: dissension is the tension it's what we've learned to hate Message-ID: Korg hoped: > People take it so damned offensively when > someone bashes a band or idea that they like. That's their right, but they As they should, by any reasonable definition of 'bash'. This is like an ethnic group, dude. You dissin' my homies? :) As opposed to say "a well thought out constructive critisim"? It takes no effort at all for the former. Been there, done that :) > Sometimes I wonder if this > could ever be a cultivated mailing list somewhere where people have a sense > of humor, can speak their mind, What's amazes me is the hypocracy of shouting "OH MY GOD, Dream Theater swore in one of their songs" and then bowing one's head in shame as they feel their band has somehow let them down by BEING HUMAN! But one breath, and 900 packets later, the very attitude shows up here. I'm not trying to come off as the though police or anything. Anyone who knows me knows I can fookin' swear with the best of 'em :) Just don't play both sides and expect people to actually sit there and believe it :)))) > opinions. I had hope for it about a month ago after the mystery shutdown, > but it only took a few weeks and it turned to crap again. *shakes head* You didn't honestly think people's non-volatile RAM would be erased just because the "machine hosting this list"'s volatile RAM was, did you? Nice concept anyways :) I hear what ya saying, K3, I just think people KNOW quite well before they post what the game is. Whether one thinks they have the right to puke all over a band in a public forum isn't the issue. Obviously they can. Skadz hasn't stepped up and said anything to the contrary, has he? (module the M band :) The issue is if they are going to sink into the gutter to deliver the message, then they have no right to expect the people on the other side of the issue, to rise up above it. And then to have the audacity to actually get pissed off that the replies weren't respectful and all sweet hearted and tender? Gimme a fuckin' break, I was born at night, but not last night :) You get what you give. Personally, I don't give a rat's ass. Jimbojorda wrote: > There are dozens of albums that I have heard are "incredible" and > "must-have," according to this list, so I can never decide what to > buy! I wish that there were MORE "dissenting opinions" posted here. There's plenty of opinions on both sides. If you go back and look at when FII came out, you'll see. Even though Korg hints that the one assumption, if any, we should make, is that everyone on this list like DT, I will continue to use too many commas, as I try to say that, there were still plenty of "dissenting opinions" about the album, the producer, the choice of musicians on certain instruments (keys, additional vocals). I simply tend to more weight to an opinion when it's constructive criticism. Yeah, it's not as exciting as the sensationalism and the attention grabbing of phrases like 'the worst I ever bought'. The value of the opinion is reduced when there's less stuff and too much fluff. Speaking of fluff: > Will you let it go? You're making a bigger deal out > of this than anyone else. Actually you doing quite well at holding your own by continuing to reply in this manner :) Just you were with the FAQ thing. Is it possible for you to let it go and post some content instead of turning everything that doesn't go your way into a pissing contest? > I'm sure you and your SB-lovin' buddies must've crapped your pant > when you saw my post. Takes more than that, tough guy :) Yours wasn't even a 1 alarmer :))) K, back to some content :) > I'm sick of people pissing on this small thing of mine. Free clue: In your world it's "small". Final clue: Content deserves respect. The % of content was what was "small" :P Fabricated Analogy: I walk down to the Mexican section of a town. There's a ton of people hangin' out on various corners havin' a fairly decent time. I decide to broadcast that some Mexican food I just ate is the worst food I've possibly EVER eaten and I simply can't reccommend that anyone eat it. Now would all of you Mexicans PLEASE stop looking at me weird? It's a small thing of mine. Damon: > The fact that Jordan can do everything he needs to do on one keyboard > speaks volumes of his ability. Testify! Yeah, it's what I continue to hear about the keyboard. The curve is probably a lot steeper on it. Kind of like trying to do a complete tune up a V-12 Jaguar XKE versus changing the #4 plug on the '67 Chevy :) You don't go in there and right out of the gate and expect to get the Jag humming along right away. One thing to bear in mind that gives Jordan the pole position, and this is certainly taking NOTHING away from Jordan's ability: he was part of the team that created the instrument. That 'suit' was taylor-made to fit him tight, in effect. It's to be expected that he'll know it inside and out and be able to blow you all off the line :) When all else fails, it's pretty easy to go back and recall Mike's words about the next one being the most progressive. Jordan will be right in there with the rest of 'em. In RPM, Jordan's left hand was in the role of bass player, as there was none. What's gonna be interesting is how he and Myung play off each other. And how it'll free up his left hand to do other things. You thought DT was layered before???? This is gonna be sick! Chris: > IMO: Gary Willis, John Patitucci, O'Teil, Victor Wooten, Manring, And, of course, Stanley Clarke. IMO: He's right up there. He did one solo on the upright where he started out using a bow, and switched to fingers only. He may not be the fastest or the cleanest or the bestest, but he's damn good! To my ears anyways, this guy has created some of the most melodically creative solos I've heard. His acheives this balance of not overplaying and not underplaying that is pleasing to my ears. Something that's beyond the sum of schooling and training and technique and analysis and accolades and awards and chart ratings. It's Soul, brother! Just a pinch between ya' cheek and gums......ayup :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:17:38 -0600 (MDT) From: TEDESCO MATTHEW A To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: More Musings on Mr. Myung Message-ID: ]From Chris Ptacek: > Jeff Berlin (though I hate to say it, > since he's the Yngwie of bass) I take it you say this because of his arrogant attitude, yes? > Skuli Sverrison? Wow, If this is who you mean... nice! I saw him play with Holdsworth, and was amazed. You don't hear him get mentioned often as a top player, but I whole-heartedly agree. > Now before we get into this, keep in mind that my original intent was > not to slag Myung, but to offer a counter point to a post which labeled him > as the best musician in DT, in multiple areas. That was the sum and total > of my purpose for getting into this. And on that, just to set the record straight, I am in complete agreement. > roles any player may take in a band. I'm not ignorant of the concept that a > bassist should sometimes hang back. In fact, I am quite sure that I > acknowledged his ability to play the traditional bass role. But is doing > that enough to justify saying that he's clearly a better musician than the > rest of the band? JP plays the standard guitarist role of rhythms and a few No, definitely not. I probably wasn't clear about that in my original post, and that's my fault. I would never even try to argue that he's a better musician than the rest of the band... and I'm comforted by the fact that, beyond dogmatically asserting it as fact, nobody has offered an argument that's even remotely persuasive to that end. > over the course of the band's history. Even if you don't like what he's > doing now, you would have to grant that. Myung has not changed much beyond > bass tones. And I think that the way he constructs bass lines is fundamentally much more sound now than it was in DT's early days. That's certainly a change, though whether it's for the better is, I suppose, a matter of taste. > That video, and any live performance I've been to are the examples I > have. That click when the string is interrupted by some part of his bass > while he's playing anything fast. You know you've heard it. I question > your exposure to the instrument if you truly believe that that's a clean > bassist. Hmm... well, I can't say I've never heard *cleaner.* I push these guys whenever I can, because they're one of the best fusion groups I've ever heard, but UZEB's Alain Caron (on their "World Tour '90" album) has perhaps the lushest, cleanest approach I've ever heard. Fine. I'm handicapped in this discussion, because I've only seen DT live 3 times, and not since the Awake tour. I respect what you're saying, though... I'll pay more attention next time I see them. > > You name how he's improved significantly in any sense since I&W or > Awake. I'll put that ball in your court. Like I said, in his approach to the instrument and the role it plays in the music. His sense of rhythm, at least in the way the bass holds up the bottom end, has improved quite a bit. Strong lines like ToT, I just don't find on previous albums. > How in the world do you attribute this to the genre of prog metal? > Isn't this the most in your face, balistic genre of music in terms of > technical proficiency and creativity? This is the LAST genre in which the > bass should blend and go unnoticed. Bah. Strong disagreement here. In any genre, the bass needs to be the backbone of the music. You mentioned Jaco, and I'll run with that one. The guy had as much flourish and whatnot as any bassist, but he NEVER did so at the expense of the rhythmic role of the bass. I think the bass should always support the music, but I never asked that it "blend and go unnoticed." I hold up "The Chicken" played live on Jaco's "Birthday Concert" as what I think of as the quintessential bassline. Deftly weaving through the music, yet always providing a rhythmic base. > You could call that improvement, or you could call that something else > entirely, depending on what you want from the band. I personally want to be > impressed in as many ways as possible when I see a band. Myung impresses me > with his writing when I buy an album, but once we're talking about a live > show, he's almost unnoticed. Well, here's the heart of the issue. Certainly, it's fair enough for you to want all flash and jaw-dropping chops and whatnot... that stuff impresses me too, but I think it's fringe. If it's done at the expense of the backbone of the music, it's empty. If it's incorporated with it, I think it can be extraordinary. > Bullshit. It was all the buzz on this list when FII came out and when > the tour opened up and they were playing NM. You can deny that all you > want, but that's a fact. Survey says... bzzzzz. I remember lots of people commenting ABOUT the Stick, and how cool it sounded, but I don't recall much discussion at all to the effect of, "That John Myung truly stands out as an outstanding Stick player." Lots of people thought it was neat and versatile, but that's about it. In order to be overrated as a Stick player, you have to be compared to other Stick players. For a lot of people on this list, this was their first exposure to the Stick, and they commented about THAT. Well, regardless, I'm in total agreement, it's silly to try to pick out Myung (or anyone, for that matter) as the best in the band. Or something like that. Trying to pick out one as the least improved still seems equally foolhardy. There was one other thing you said, about JM not taking any solos. Certainly, I've seen impressive bass solos... Vic Wooten's comes to mind, as does Mark King's (from Level 42). I suppose it depends on the band... but I remember the first time I saw DT, and feeling glad that JM didn't take a solo. Conversely, I remember sitting through MP's solo, thinking, what a damn waste of time. (Had the same thought listening to OiaL, for what it's worth.) But I don't for a second believe that Myung can't take a meaningful solo... I tend to think, for how he understands his role in the music, that he sees no point in it. --MATt ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 4929 **************************