YTSEJAM Digest 4927 Today's Topics: 1) Zero Hour by email_address_removed 2) Re: A few things by trent 3) Re: Christian Rock that kicks Satan's ass. by Michael Pomerleau 4) My spiel on the members by Thor Bremer 5) Jordan Sounds by "Christopher W. Ptacek" 6) Re: Spock by Phil Carter 7) Myung by "Christopher W. Ptacek" 8) Re: My spiel on the members by email_address_removed 9) Oh Holy Night by email_address_removed 10) DEFENSE>>>>DEFENSE by J C 11) To Chris/not Amanda or anyone else...is that clear enough? by J C 12) by J C ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 00:24:27 EDT From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Zero Hour Message-ID: I've been searching for this CD and I can't seem to find it anywhere, somebody help me out? If you haver this Cd and would like to sell it or if you know of a palce, other then "the Arena" that has this CD, lemme know? The Arena has it but its out of stock . . . RaY -I believe I believe- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:36:49 -0700 (PDT) From: trent To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: A few things Message-ID: --- "Christopher W. Ptacek" wrote: > In any case, I do apologize to Trent for being so > overly > vitriolic. No problem mate. No hard feelings on my part. I'm sorry too for stirring this stuff up. Sometimes I should just keep my mouth shut, so to speak. Laterz. === *Trent -- check out my mp3s -- http://members.xoom.com/el_trento AIM- PageRiff ICQ- #39449102 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 00:37:28 -0400 From: Michael Pomerleau To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Christian Rock that kicks Satan's ass. Message-ID: I got a couple of Impellettieri CD's a month ago - "Screaming Symphony'" and Eye of the Hurricane" and that stuff is pretty cool!!!!! Great Guitarist - Reminds me of Yngvwie (spelling??) and Rob Rock has awesome vocals Michael Pomerleau E-mail: (Home) email_address_removed (Work) email_address_removed Visit My Home Page at http://w3.nai.net/~mpomerle "If a President of the United States ever lied to the American people, he should resign." - Bill Clinton July, 1974 "No question that an admission of making false statements to government officials and interfering with the FBI is an impeachable offense." - Bill Clinton, ARKANSAS GAZETTE August 8, 1974; page 7-A ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:39:19 PDT From: Thor Bremer To: email_address_removed Subject: My spiel on the members Message-ID: All right. I'm sick of hearing about how so-and-so and this guy and that guy are "the band." It's obvious where it's coming from. They keyboard players are claiming that KevMo was the best. The bass players are claiming Myung is the best. Whatever instrument a person plays is what they will be listening for the majority of the time and won't be listening to the rest of the band as much. The members of DT are the best in their field. But is there really a true way to say that a guitar player is better than the drummer when they are at that high of a level? No. When you kick that much ass, it's impossible to say that one is better than another. Bands change their members, ppl. Get the fuck over it. DT rules. Thunder God Thor ps. i'm a drummer, but i liked petrucci's guitar solo better than portnoy's on the album. Life is Good When Cheese is Plentiful _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:48:20 -0500 From: "Christopher W. Ptacek" To: Subject: Jordan Sounds Message-ID: <005601bebc6a$74760740$87bbfea9@madstation> > From: "Vaughn, Brandon" > Subject: Jordan's lead sounds > > You can do it on a Kurzweil. But the thing is, that you can't pull it > up as some preset (which I imagine most of Derek's unique sounds came > from). Guillory told me that he once asked Derek about his patches, and Derek blew him off. It was in the context of saying "I'm not sure how Derek gets some of his sounds." Guillory is another Trinity mofo. It's very much a lead player's board. > and see how long it lasts. Try to be a 2 member band (like R&M) with > _one_ keyboard and see how much it holds up. I agree. But then Rudess isn't good at playing everything on one board as a result of playing Kurzweil. That's part of his technique, and even on a Kurzweil, switching patches and modifying things on the fly while playing complex shit like he does, is not even remotely easy. > So far, I've only ever seen Jordan play on one keyboard. I look at > Derek and Kevin . . . stacks of keyboards. Of course, I do like the I think the reason Kevin and Derek use multiple boards is likely because they perhaps feel that no one board can do all they want it to do, though it could be the patch switching glitch mentioned about the Trinity. Jordan would seem to be making a different statement, but to my ears, his sounds do fall a bit short. Opinion, so nbd. > keyboards. One of things I didn't like about Derek's sound was that at > times I couldn't tell if it was Petrucci. There is only one Petrucci, I could generally tell, especially live, and I thought that was a HUGE plus... not because it was a keyboard that could sound similar to a guitar, but because it was such a totally fresh sound that I had never heard before. > I thought I saw an Eventide on the inside back of LTE2. I'm pretty sure > that was it. I haven't seen the pic yet, so I'm going to pray you're right, considering that the alternatives would have him playing through a Rocktron or Digitech preamp... a thought that a tonal elitist like me can not bear! :) J/K > point with Vai . . . yeah, you are right, Vai has always sounded like > Vai. But you listen to Flexible versus post-Eventide, and you can't > tell me you can't hear a difference. For one, the layered lead sounds? > Or the weird etudes. I only hear it making actual "in song" appearances mainly in Passion and Warfare. I don't count the songs that are nothing but guitar and Eventide, because those are dramatically different from most of Vai's stuff. And he seems to my ears to move further and further away from that sound. A lot of his layered lead sounds are Whammy pedal and delay, too, as you know. - Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 00:48:27 -0400 From: Phil Carter To: A Pleasant Shade of Ytse Subject: Re: Spock Message-ID: Greetings ye 'jamanoids.... Trent, continuing to ignore what people have written: >Okay, my final word on this subject that I'm sorry I >started is thus-- how many people does it take to >breathe down my neck? Do you have any idea how many >people e-mailed me privately to tell me I suck b/c I >don't like SB? More proof that you AREN'T FUCKING PAYING ATTENTION. I never said that you suck because you don't like SB. Your opinions on the band are your own, and you're free to think what you want about them. I don't agree with your opinions, but that's my business, and none of your concern. I said that you irritated me because you made inflammatory statements and virtually ignored the remarks made in return, and jumped all over the people who DARED to disagree with your almighty opinion. If you can't stand the heat, DON'T MAKE INFLAMMATORY REMARKS. Hypocrite. (Again). cheers, Phil ========================================================= Phil Carter -- email_address_removed Official Glass Hammer website: http://www.glasshammer.com/ "Music expresses that which can not be said and on which it is impossible to be silent." -- Victor Hugo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:56:38 -0500 From: "Christopher W. Ptacek" To: Subject: Myung Message-ID: <005701bebc6b$9d664380$87bbfea9@madstation> > From: "Giannotti, Nick" > Subject: Spocks Beard/Myung > Gaa! No offense taken, but I don't quite know how you come to your > conclusions, or at least some of them. Sure, he doesn't take a meaningful > solo unless it's on a B**r bootleg, Which one? Not that jam Mike Swiped from Myung's video, right? I'm not speaking from the vantage point of someone who can outplay him on bass, but is it just me or is he flubbing notes on the solo at the end of his video? His technique is very imprecise. And all this discussion has been about is technique and soloing, not any other important part of musicianship. > but then again, I'm of the "Bassists > shouldn't take solos" camp. That there is personal preference. And for that. he is an excellent bassist. He does write good bass lines and he is rhythmicly tight. I think my response was partially due to what time I read that at, and partially because I don't think it's right IMO, to put Myung on the top of the chain, and I figured I would offer my reasoning behind that conclusion. It's somewhat akin to those who assert that Les Claypool or Flea are the best bassists "in the world." Both are decent (Les, I would go so far as to say is GOOD) but neither would stand up to any real competition, even at the stuff they seem to excell at. This is the case with Myung's technical prowess and his ability to solo. > sloppy? Really? Maybe in a live setting, I can somewhat give you that, but > he's no sloppier than Petrucci or Sherinian on OiaL. Hell, everyone's sloppy > live except the London Philharmonic. :) He *IS* way overrated on the Stick, > but the thing is, he knows it and made that clear in interviews that he's > just getting used to it. Yes, in a live setting... I don't understand letting mistakes get through the mix on a studio prog album, so yeah, that's what I'm talking about. I would disagree with your OiaL comment, but I haven't listened to it enough yet. I'm talking about my experiences seeing him play, and watching that video. I also consider that "click" sound he gets with some of his "pizz" attacks (but not all) to be sloppy technique, as it seems to appear at random, and does dramatically detract from the tone (Gary Willis of Tribal Tech explains a lot about the dynamics of right hand technique on bass, and how it affects tone and precision... check out his vid and some of his interviews). And I believe I beat you to the punch in explaining his newness to the Stick. :) > And I can only name two bassists that are leaps and bounds beyond > him: Vic Wooten and Mike Manring. But they're leaps and bounds beyond > everyone. Not everyone. :) IMO: Gary Willis, John Patitucci, O'Teil, Victor Wooten, Manring, Jaco, John Onder, Aldrete (I think I'm misspelling that, but I'm referring to the dude from Racer X), Sean Malone, Bill Dickens, Steve Bailey, Jimmy Earl, Jeff Berlin (though I hate to say it, since he's the Yngwie of bass), Tony Franklin, Dave LaRue, Barry Sparks, Skuli, Stu "Same Solo every time" Hamm, Billy Sheehan, Jimmy Johnson, etc are all superior bassists. Anybody will get called "The best bassist ever" by some fans of the band. That's not necessarily bad, but I think it's likely due to a lack of exposure. > From: TEDESCO MATTHEW A > Subject: Musings about Myung Now before we get into this, keep in mind that my original intent was not to slag Myung, but to offer a counter point to a post which labeled him as the best musician in DT, in multiple areas. That was the sum and total of my purpose for getting into this. > > WOWOWOW... how do you come to this conclusion? The E.T. finger > > "Econony of motion is nothing to me" technique? The complete inability to > > take a meaningful solo? > > Myung once commented that he switched to the 6-string precisely because it > afforded him greater economy. Given the demanding nature of the music, > I'm not exactly sure in what ways he could be MORE economical.... Economical could be refering to anything. I was referring to his "economy of motion." He doesn't take advantage of this concept in any way, and as a result I believe he has imposed serious limits on what he is capable of doing. > > The guy is an excellent songwriter, and a good > > bassist in the "behind the band" sense, but the only time he meaningfully > > takes the center is Metropolis, and only for like... a second. He's a > > Two possibilities here, and I think you're only acknowledging one. The > first, the one you're offering, is that he only "meaningfully takes the > center" for "a second" in one song is due to some limitation of his > ability as a soloist. The second, and the one I find far more likely, is > that he only steps forward once simply because he's composing his part > towards the good of the song, which, most often, does not call for a > blistering bass solo. His ability to solo, I think, is at least validated > on his instructional video, in the closing jam with DS and MP. I object to the way you do this, Matt, and we know this isn't the first time we've had this type of argument. :) I'm not ignorant of the multiple roles any player may take in a band. I'm not ignorant of the concept that a bassist should sometimes hang back. In fact, I am quite sure that I acknowledged his ability to play the traditional bass role. But is doing that enough to justify saying that he's clearly a better musician than the rest of the band? JP plays the standard guitarist role of rhythms and a few effects and tricks, but he also plays leads, and he has improved massively over the course of the band's history. Even if you don't like what he's doing now, you would have to grant that. Myung has not changed much beyond bass tones. And I simply can not grant that the jam at the end of his video validates him as a monster soloist. I was just incredibly underwhelmed by his lines and his technique. > > good bassist, but he's sloppy, has probably improved the least out of all > > the members since I&W and is WAY overrated on the Stick (which he'd > > probably admit since he's rather new to it). > > OK, then, to the heart of Chris' 3 criticisms. Sloppy? Evidence, please. > If there's one thing all that practice has afforded him, I think, it's an > ability to play cleanly. That video, and any live performance I've been to are the examples I have. That click when the string is interrupted by some part of his bass while he's playing anything fast. You know you've heard it. I question your exposure to the instrument if you truly believe that that's a clean bassist. > Improved the least... well, spoken like a true guitarist. =) By saying > "improved the least," I see you're acknowledging that they've all improved > to some degree. Fair enough. So, the question... improved to what end? You name how he's improved significantly in any sense since I&W or Awake. I'll put that ball in your court. > Depends on how you define the bassist's role, I suppose. Before, you > mentioned that he was good in a "behind the band" sense. At the very > least, particularly in the genre of music in which DT resides, the bass > player should FUNDAMENTALLY play a supportive rhythmic role. How in the world do you attribute this to the genre of prog metal? Isn't this the most in your face, balistic genre of music in terms of technical proficiency and creativity? This is the LAST genre in which the bass should blend and go unnoticed. > done in countless creative, challenging ways, obviously... but to me, and > I'm sure to a lot of bass players, the lines he plays on FII are VASTLY > improved beyond his finger-numbing exercises of WDADU & I&W. He's > improved from writing flashy, fast basslines to playing the role of the > quintessential bass player. Do I want to say he's improved MORE than > anyone else in the band? No. But to say he has improved the least seems > foolish. You could call that improvement, or you could call that something else entirely, depending on what you want from the band. I personally want to be impressed in as many ways as possible when I see a band. Myung impresses me with his writing when I buy an album, but once we're talking about a live show, he's almost unnoticed. Your only option with regard to your final statement would be to say that LaBrie has improved the least, which is sort of a cop out because vocalist abilities traditionally decline with age. > The least criticism, and to me, the one that's the most inexplicable, is > that he's overrated on the stick. You're way out of this, I think, was > when you pointed out how he'd admit this, because he's new to the > instrument. Still, that doesn't cut it at all. It shouldn't be a > criticism at all, because NOBODY is overrating him on the Stick! Bullshit. It was all the buzz on this list when FII came out and when the tour opened up and they were playing NM. You can deny that all you want, but that's a fact. > or something like that? He plays it on one DT song, and shows up > sparingly on Sean Malone's Gordian Knot project. To criticize his > Stick-playing as somehow illustrating a limitation in his abilities as a > bassist is entirely off-base. Entirely. You and I both know why JM is on that disc. And the Stick comments play perfectly logical roles in an argument that puts him as the best musician in DT. > To say, as some people have, that Myung is clearly the best bassist going, > or the best musician in DT, is at best ignorant. Chris, though, your > replies some pretty off-the-mark as well. I think they're pretty much exactly on the mark, and I think I've provided enough detail to back that up. To each his own. - Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 00:54:08 EDT From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: My spiel on the members Message-ID: >< ps. i'm a drummer, but i liked petrucci's guitar solo better than portnoy's on the album. >< i'm a drummer and `something` of a guitarist, i didn't like either of them. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 00:58:20 EDT From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Oh Holy Night Message-ID: I believe that Dream Theater must be a christian band too i mean, shit, they did "cover" the christmas classic, "Oh Holy Night" hahaha.....i hate how some bands have to restrict their musical/lyrical potential by having such close-minded tunnell sights as confining yourself to the christian persuation. same for the satanic thing (i guess) ;) Compadre32 np: Acid Bath - "Pagan Terrorism Tactics" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 01:07:02 EDT From: J C To: email_address_removed Subject: DEFENSE>>>>DEFENSE Message-ID: I said: you most certainly are being a FUCKIN' dick....you come off like a fuckin' prick! BE NICE ASSHOLE! :> So Amanda bleets: >It must be nice to be so much better than all of us. By the way, is >the >"J C" for Jesus Christ? If you want it to be then it is. Its actually my initials, smartass! But as far as the above response goes...I made it quite clear who I was talking to and I felt it would be better posted here than privately. I was just making a point and once again someone missed it entirely. Am I just too obscure in my meaning for you? BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS THIS: "BE NICE ASSHOLE" WAS A JOKE! YA know ......saying "Be nice" then saying asshole? I included a nice little emoticon [ ;> } just for the purpose that I would not be misread and here I am explaining it to you. But thats OK and no hard feelings...especially since I kinda thought we were cool with each other. Outlander ;> Keep smiling Ytse-Jam! _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 01:37:06 EDT From: J C To: email_address_removed Subject: To Chris/not Amanda or anyone else...is that clear enough? Message-ID: Chris goes: What's really cool about this post is that you said nothing, made no point and just threw insults at me. See I like you, because that makes you an easy target. You're a dude who comes brand new to the jam and tells us all that we should play by different rules and that we should be nice... and then you decide that no such rules apply to you. You're building up quite a following. Im not trying to build a following...are you? And if you consider me a target then your intent is thusly revealed! Im not telling people to play nice im just telling you that you came off like a real asshole to that persons post and ....well,,,fuck it its a waste trying to explain this to you... This doesn't seem to make any sense. At least not as a rebuttal to what you quoted. If you have no side in an argument, you shouldn't be speaking. I will do as I please...(at least while trying not to step on too many toes....at the most not to crucify someone) Lighten up dude GEEZ I think some therapy is needed here But in that there was no argument and no side to take, you seem to be saying that you don't ever have a side in an argument. All I can say is learn to read (or read it again) And my "fuckin' prick" doesn't come off. You might want to get yours checked out by a doctor. Didnt say it did....(so your twist of words here is ineffective at best) And then we're all supposed to sit around and figure out what the message is, which would clearly take years for my brain to accomplish since I'm quite obviously your inferior! Eureka! I think hes got it! (that was a joke) HIGHLY improbable. :) If you have such an extensive vocabulary, you might want to spell check it a bit. No spel chekking rechoired---it was fine And you know what post I was reffering to...if you really dont then dont sweat it because trying to get some people to stop acting mean to others when they only voice an opinion is like trying to pull fuckin' teeth with a pair of tongs! So just forget it and from now on i'll take your advice and just read while you slam others and do like most have done on this list....and that's not post at all. You win Chris...you drove me away from a place where i thought i could hook-up with intelligent music lovers (not just DT fans) and the best I was hoping for was to make a few friends...but when you flame 1st (and Im not saying you specifically) then what am I to do but reply back in the same fashion....yet at the same time im trying to make a point to not be so rash with people and you say Im talking just as much garbage? As I said above I apparently cannot explain this clearly enough to you so I will not try to again... this really sucks though...I was really starting to like it here Outlander out _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 01:37:49 EDT From: J C To: email_address_removed Message-ID: In any case, I do apologize to Trent for being so overly vitriolic. I am sure that it was a reaction to seeing a similarly flame like response that Trent sent to the original attacker, as well as it being 4 AM when I wrote. I could have made my point without being so insulting Starting to come back now eh? _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 4927 **************************