YTSEJAM Digest 4882 Today's Topics: 1) Re: You not Me Demo by Nick Storr 2) Flower Kings by Donnie Bowers 3) Flower Kings? by Donnie Bowers 4) Come out with your hands up! by "J C" 5) Glenn Hughes Interview by "Dreamgirl" 6) RE: fake shocks by "Agar, Jonathan (CAP, EURO)" 7) Shows by email_address_removed 8) commercialism, blockbuster, MTV brainwashing by email_address_removed (Bruce Forst) 9) MTV thread by Kevin Carmouche 10) MTV: it's all about mind control by Jon Parmet 11) EW article on prog by Kevin Carmouche 12) Re: Music Psychology (was Re:Kids 'n' MTV) by Jon Parmet 13) Re: commercialism, blockbuster, MTV brainwashing by trent 14) LTE II by email_address_removed 15) Devin & the Aphex Twin by "Robert Sindermann" 16) Am I crazy? My family might tell you the truth... by Andrew Coutermarsh 17) Re: fake shocks by Brian Hansen ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 21:42:19 +1000 From: Nick Storr To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: You not Me Demo Message-ID: >> I'd be happy to ICQ it out to whoever's interested. > > Or you can purchase it by buying the Hollow Years single and not >shafting the band out of a few dollars. > > - mike. Or you could do what I did, order and pay for it at CD-NOW, have it never arrive and THEN download the MP3s :) A word of warning for Overseas CDNOW buyers... don't use surface mail :) Nick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 05:27:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Donnie Bowers To: email_address_removed Subject: Flower Kings Message-ID: _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 05:37:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Donnie Bowers To: email_address_removed Subject: Flower Kings? Message-ID: Hello all, Anyone at all have any information on the Flower kings, maybe a web site address, place in Korea where I might find that kind of music, people whom are willing to sell their copies of any Flower Kings material . For any of you whom have never heard the Flower Kings, you truly are missing out an a FASCINATING take on progressive music. Highly suggested, only trouble is, I have never seen it anywhere. PERIOD. My fiance's father put it on for me one time, and I have been searching endlessly ever since. He travels around the world for a living, so he can't even remember where he got them... In addition to that, Spock's Beard? Sounds interesting, where could I get a copy of their material? Michigan would suffice as well... The Reverend _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 09:29:38 EDT From: "J C" To: email_address_removed Subject: Come out with your hands up! Message-ID: As i was typing the word illegal i had this sense that this would happen...i know there is no rights and wrongs and theory is a tool...what im talking about is something extreme like a Bmaj and a Cmaj chord being picked (individual notes) at the same time...i tried it as an experiment and it sounded like both were out of tune with each other...so in this case dont you think its what could referred to as illegal since it sounds like SHIT..no matter the style of music. However using Vai as an example is rough since he once stated himself that you must understand all the theory rules before you can break them and know how to break them....aren't those rules as well. Chaos is in itself a contolled state but there are instances where i just cant take the noise and long for tonal resolution ..ya know what i mean? " As long as it sounds cool/OK it's never illigal (in music or art to be frank right but thats what im talking about| the times when its not cool...what the hell is happening and why.... thats what im trying to find out...(basically where am i gonna get the lead notes i need to allow the dissonance of my backing chords thru.(and please dont say "from scales" ;> Outlander _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:38:00 +0100 From: "Dreamgirl" To: email_address_removed Subject: Glenn Hughes Interview Message-ID: http://www.angelfire.com/nb/NIXB/ Sorry folks, left the last forward slash off the address yesterday. It is easier if you go to the url above! Never let go of your dreams .... Get FREE dreamtheater.zzn.com email at http://www.dreamtheater.net/ ___________________________________________________________ Get your own Web-based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:36:32 +0100 From: "Agar, Jonathan (CAP, EURO)" To: "'email_address_removed'" Subject: RE: fake shocks Message-ID: <83E9BD6E053FD111B35A0000F6093E2701A5BEBE@LON01XBCAPGE> > Subject: Re: fake shocks As far as _I_ know, the main conlusion of that experiment was that the subject were 'electroshocking' the fake subjects for a surprisingly long time. Only when the 'victim' started to yell and screamed in pain, most of them quit the experiment. Cheers Zaphod -oOo- Yes, that's what I thought. It was a test to see how concentration camp guard mentality can arise. When the subjects wanted to break off because they thought they were causing 'pain' by electric shocking the volunteer students, the scientists told them 'You are required to increase the voltage whenever the answers are false'. And they continued to do just that for some time. I didn't even think 'most of them quit the experiment'. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:43:32 EDT From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed, email_address_removed, email_address_removed, Subject: Shows Message-ID: Hey, EVENT will be performing July 9 at Joslins in Billerica MA (Rt. 3 exit 28) This show will feature the return of Divine Regale to the local scene after touring with Fates Warning. After taking some time off to write and revamp their line up, DR will be doing some local shows before going in to record their next CD. Matt EVENT ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:50:38 -0500 From: email_address_removed (Bruce Forst) To: email_address_removed Cc: email_address_removed Subject: commercialism, blockbuster, MTV brainwashing Message-ID: >Going along with this commercial/MTV discussion, > >I have an experiece that will make y'all really wonder. I work at >Blockbuster video. In the store we have a tape that plays over TV's in the >store. Music on it is typical MTV stuff-Sugar ray, Sixpence ..., Britney >Spears, Backstreet Boys. You get the picture. ...... for this reason I cut up my blockbuster card and pledged to never ever rent from there again. There are alot of options and as long as people keep supporting places that rip you off then they'll continue to be around... I returned a video late to BB and they charged me close to $7 for a couple of days.... I returned a movie late to the place I go to now...$ 0.67. What I think pisses me off the most is not that people arent excersicing their minds and being responsible for discovering their own tastes, its just that in being so accepting and influenced by the media they are contributing to media conglomerates that can maximize the money they make by getting people to buy the same shit at the same time, thereby minimizing the diversity of available material. theres a simple concept at work here: MTV creates a demographic to sell and deliver to advertisers. The more people that they can get to have similar tastes the more ad revenue they can demand. The most desirable audience to advertisers is one that is already attuned to accepting what they are offered as the only option. MTV has created a culture based around their programming. I call it brainwashing. turn it on keep watching buy something tune in tommorow are you following your training? bruce, thanks you for listening. email_address_removed www.busprod.com/bforst/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 10:11:46 -0500 From: Kevin Carmouche To: email_address_removed Subject: MTV thread Message-ID: I've really enjoyed the MTV thread, it's been pretty civil(especially for the Jam...hehe) and some good points have been said, so what if they've been said before, some people didn't hear them before and now have the satisfaction of reading the opinions...:) Now, for my contribution, I'll say MTV is responsible for me getting into Progressive Rock...don't laugh or drop dead, it's true. Back in the early 90's, I was a kid in middle school trying to find myself and all, trying to stretch out from the jazz that my dad had raised me on(which I've always loved, and have even grown to love more than ever), and finding an appreciation for metal. I wasn't into for the image, I did think it was a "cool" music though, everybody played their asses off for the most part, and it was just good, well, MTV was the easiest way for me to listen to music at the time, so I put it on, and saw the Silent Lucidity video. Sure, it's not the most "progressive" music on earth, but it was the start, and also the musical turning point of my life. Enough of the ACDC and Warrant, Queensryche totally entranced me, the music, the mood, Tate's singing, everything...well, I spent literally YEARS(till my senior year of high school) trying to find another band like Queensryche...for the most part, I was disappointed till I met someone who introduced me to DT, and then it was all over...I finally found a band with the good vocals, good music, plus the added pleasure of keyboards...:) So, in a funny way, MTV did a good thing, surprisingly enough....hehe As for what people are saying, yes, MTV has alot to say about what people listen to, just look at things like "Buzz" clips, they're trying to push things to make them look hip, and it works, and it sells. Is that bad??? Well, yes and no, bad because some of the music sucks, good because it is a medium that can indeed introduce people to things. Image sells though, sure, the Backstreet Boys are horrible, N'Sync is worse, and I don't care how much my girlfriend makes me listen to them, I'll hate them, but, I can actually see redeeming qualities in them, they sing some melodies, they are G-Rated, so I'd rather young kids listen to that than Korn or Marilyn Manson....Britney Spears is a different story, she's hot, and that song is catchy, I dont care how gay it sounds...hehe...There's nothing wrong with popular, Dave Matthews may be popular, but I find he's one of the most refreshing bands to come out in the 90's, good songs, good sound, nice different instrumentation(I'd love to hear more horns in more bands)...My point??? Popular does not mean bad, just means that they had the breaks as well as the selling point that got them into the public eye... Well, there were other things I wanted to say too, but I forgot them right now...:) np: John Coltrane "Giant Steps" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 15:10:49 +0000 From: Jon Parmet To: "The 'I have a theory, and it is mine' Jam" Subject: MTV: it's all about mind control Message-ID: email_address_removed wrote: > So you're not as impressionable as most people. But a lot of people *will* > like a song if they hear it enough. I keep hearing that song on the radio that has that guitar/synth? that sounds like a two-man saw ripping through a steel skull. The lyrics go something like: "I'm doin' the best that I ever can, I doin' the best I ever did, NOW GO AWAY!!!" heh Just can't get that two-man saw sound out of my head. Sometime when I'm driving down the road and someone cuts me off, I imagine taking a nice sagital cut down their spine as I grit my teeth, snarl, and make that sound. The next time I watch Wild Word of Sports or the Logging Channel and they have those Stihl competitions with the 300 pound beer bellies climbing 100 foot Sequoias and chopping off perfectly shaped diskettes in 3.2 seconds, I'll probably be reminded of this song again :)))) Your theory is partially true. I actually kind like the song a little. Then again, I'm not 'most people'. Will I go out and buy it? Survey says: what do you think? :) > And the radio and the labels. MTV [doesn't] deserve all of the blame, > but a damn lot of it. And if it weren't for seeing the Pull Me Under video on MTV, I never would have hopped on the DT bandwagon...as quickly :) Ironic, ain't it? ;) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 10:19:11 -0500 From: Kevin Carmouche To: email_address_removed Subject: EW article on prog Message-ID: Yes, I remember the EW article, it was basically saying how prog is on a slight upswing, saying that Dave Matthews and Ben Folds were helping it out.(By the way, they REALLY hate Dave Matthews, I remember back last year they said it was the worst album of the year because it had "thoughtful lyrics and too many woodwind solos" guess they only like a bunch of samples on a hip-hop album) They mentioned ELP and Yes, and their reference to Ben Folds was because the new album is kind of a concept album...it also has some orchestration, some long songs, instrumental passages...I really like the album alot, my favorite of theirs by far, and I liked the other albums....Interesting article, but not exactly an article that had a favorable spin towards prog, but then EW tends to cater more to the "pop" set, and are more in line with Entertainment Tonight than with other more bold and daring magazines...I still like it though, I have the Jam to keep me up on good prog, I have EW to keep me up on pop stuff that I may like....:) np: Santana "Milagro" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 15:48:11 +0000 From: Jon Parmet To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Music Psychology (was Re:Kids 'n' MTV) Message-ID: Peter Geerts wrote: > Jonathan Agar wrote: > > turn. In around 80% of cases, the child also says 'seven'. > > Actually this isn't only true for children, but also for adults. In a In a Social Psychology class I took, there was a similar experiment done to determine the extent to which group behavior influences individual behavior. It showed that, more often than not, when a test is given, an individual is more likely to cheat if others in the group are also cheating. > As far as _I_ know, the main conlusion of that experiment was that the > subject were 'electroshocking' the fake subjects for a surprisingly long > time. Only when the 'victim' started to yell and screamed in pain, most of > them quit the experiment. Sounds right. The concept of 'honoring an obligation' is a learned behavior. Indeed, the fact that some of the peeps had to be badgered to keep them there meant they were on the fringe, juggling ethics and morals inside their heads. The concept of 'pain' is burned into the genetic code :) Most 'normal :)' people don't have to think twice about it. You hear the scream, there's no thought as to what's right or wrong. The instinct is to make it stop....MAKE IT STOP!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHH :) OH, OH, OHHHH!!! Wasn't that a newer version of an older experiment where one subject had to quiz another, and when the quizee got an answer wrong, the quizer themselves actually had to adminster a shock....to monkeys? Or something like that. Can't remember. Too many shocks... :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:34:58 -0700 (PDT) From: trent To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: commercialism, blockbuster, MTV brainwashing Message-ID: --- Bruce Forst wrote: > for this reason I cut up my blockbuster card and > pledged to never ever rent > from there again. There are alot of options and as > long as people keep > supporting places that rip you off then they'll > continue to be around... I > returned a video late to BB and they charged me > close to $7 for a couple of > days.... I returned a movie late to the place I go > to now...$ 0.67. > > What I think pisses me off the most is not that > people arent excersicing > their minds and being responsible for discovering > their own tastes, its just > that in being so accepting and influenced by the > media they are contributing > to media conglomerates that can maximize the money > they make by getting > people to buy the same shit at the same time, > thereby minimizing the > diversity of available material. > > theres a simple concept at work here: > > MTV creates a demographic to sell and deliver to > advertisers. The more > people that they can get to have similar tastes the > more ad revenue they can > demand. The most desirable audience to advertisers > is one that is already > attuned to accepting what they are offered as the > only option. MTV has > created a culture based around their programming. I > call it brainwashing. > > turn it on > keep watching > buy something > tune in tommorow > > are you following your training? > > bruce, thanks you for listening. Yeah! Cool post. That probably sums up the whole spiel moreso than any other post made on the subject. Your post is going into my Ytsejam Hall Of Fame. Later! === *Trent "I couldn't breathe, holdin' me down. Hand on my face, pushed to the ground. Enmity gauged, united by fear. Forced to endure what I could not forgive." * Eddie Vedder, a man amongst men _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 12:47:22 EDT From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: LTE II Message-ID: It's awesome folks. . . you are going to love it!!! _____Nikki______________________ ~~Through Nature's Inflexible Grace~~ ~~I'm Learning to Live. --J. Myung~~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 19:02:00 +0200 From: "Robert Sindermann" To: "Ytsejam" Subject: Devin & the Aphex Twin Message-ID: <002a01bead19$dfb94040$538a2fc3@rob> >> * You get to hear about wicked-ass collaborations like >> Devin Townsend and=20 >> Aphex Twin. If this actually went down, I can't think of >> a more=20 >> scary/talented/mind-blowing combination!!!!! Lots of >> screams to be sure. =20 >Ok I must have been asleep when this was posted. When did >this collaboration take form. The last I heard about Devy >was that he was gonna do the next Strapping Young Lad album >and then start work on a new solo album that is supposed to >be heavier than strapping.... Uhm, sorry, I think I started that rumour. Our man in Korea asked about = the Aphex Twin and in my reply I was kinda thinking out loud that I = remembered there being some connection with Devy. But come to think of = it, it's likely that I just saw Mr. Townsend mention A.T. in a SYL = interview or something. Again, sorry. But it would rule if they actually did something together... Wishful = thinking, I guess. Rob ------------------------------- The Chaos Engine - CD cover and packaging designs website: http://hjem.get2net.dk/sindermann e-mail: sindermann@get2net.dk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 13:30:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew Coutermarsh To: email_address_removed Subject: Am I crazy? My family might tell you the truth... Message-ID: Despite my humongous urges telling me to do otherwise, and all those lessons from my mother telling me to SAVE my money instead of frivolously spending it, I ordered LTE through that gift certificate to buy.com. Thanks goes out to whomever it was that sent that link to the jam. It hasn't arrived yet, but I am anxiously awaiting it. In another stupid move, I used a 5.00 credit to CDNow to pre-purchase LTE II. If my mother found out, she'd kill me - she has this thing about me spending money. I don't feel it's a frivolous purchase, though. So don't tell her, and I won't tell her, and she'll never know. But I just decided that I HAD to have these CDs after going to the Portnoy/Petrucci clinic and hearing the live LTE NAMM stuff. So I splurged a little, since I had money off on them. ------------------------------------------------- Andrew Coutermarsh email_address_removed http://cout.home.dhs.org/ Cloak on IRC ICQ: 2513441 ------------------------------------------------- "No one wants to fuck with a crazy person. If someone tries to mug you, The best thing you can do is take out your money, and piss on it while mumbling and ranting. Chances are, they'll get scared and leave you alone. Of course, you'll have to wash your money." - Norman Calkin, on urban survival ------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 11:03:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Hansen To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: fake shocks Message-ID: Peter Geerts added: >On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Joshua Rasiel wrote: >> I guess they were good at that, because as far as I know, most of the >> subjects would end up staying, choosing not to dishonor their >> obligation. >As far as _I_ know, the main conlusion of that experiment was that the >subject were 'electroshocking' the fake subjects for a surprisingly long >time. Only when the 'victim' started to yell and screamed in pain, most >of them quit the experiment. If I remember correctly, many of the subjects continued the shocks even after the "victim" STOPPED screaming (i.e. unconscious or dead). I believe this was an experiment to see what people might do under "orders". Possibly spawned by Nazi trials after WWII (where the "I was following orders" defense was often used). Unfortunately, this is human nature, and people will do (or agree with) horrible things with the slightest peer pressure or self-rightous propaganda. my $.02, BH _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 4882 **************************