YTSEJAM Digest 4810 Today's Topics: 1) xibalba by TheCowGod 2) Avant Garde? by Amanda Rosenblum 3) TOP bass player by Paul Weiss 4) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4809 by John Parks 5) The chain by "Josh Calkin" 6) Re: The chain by Frank Benenati 7) Re: Avant Garde? by Andy Putman 8) Re: Just stuff... (Stripped, Raped and Strangled) by "James Lenart" 9) Re: Strangle Yourself + comments on death metal by Andy Putman 10) Different Intros by email_address_removed 11) Re: Strangle Yourself + comments on death metal by email_address_removed (Dr. Mosh) 12) Re: monster ballads by email_address_removed (Dr. Mosh) 13) Re: Strangle Yourself With The Listening Chain by Jim Shields 14) Re: Just stuff...regarding BLIND GUARDIAN by email_address_removed (Jason T. Breitweg) 15) Important reminder ICE AGE performs live this Sat.!!! by email_address_removed 16) The Korg's Eye. by "Korg Ecksthrey" 17) Re: TOP bass player by "Korg Ecksthrey" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:00:19 -0400 (EDT) From: TheCowGod To: email_address_removed Subject: xibalba Message-ID: has anyone heard of the band Xibalba? they're featured on mp3.box.sk and they've got 5 mp3s you can download. i got them and they're pretty good. they're a progressive metal band from Slovakia. check out the page at http://band.box.sk/xibalba/. moo. *** END OF TRANSMISSION *** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:49:17 -0700 From: Amanda Rosenblum To: email_address_removed Subject: Avant Garde? Message-ID: I'm probably only asking this because I'm too friggin tired to be ashamed, but what is avante gard, musically speaking? Thanks. If someone could give me some examples I think I'll catch on. ~~Amanda ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:05:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Weiss To: A Mind Forever Ytse-ing Subject: TOP bass player Message-ID: Korg let me down and the legion of his idolizers the world over when he mistakenly babbled: >I think he (Ricc Fierabracci) used to play for that Tower of Power group >the drummer (Joel Taylor) came from. No, a thousand times no. The bass player for Tower of Power is Rocco Prestia, who coincidentally has released a solo album within the last couple of months. He and "Doc" Kupka are the reasons I still get the recent releases. All right, so I'm pedantic. paul NP Bjork: Debut+1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Paul's biweekly musical quote: Now I'm telling it to you straight/ so you don't have to hear it another way/ Annie, I'm not your Daddy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:40:17 -0700 (PDT) From: John Parks To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4809 Message-ID: What I'm saying is that it seems like some of you Fuckers just scroll through the Jam looking for opinions that don't agree with yours just so you can make a comment about it. How about just letting someone have whatever "Fucking Opinion" they want and leave them the hell alone. I understand that having differing opinions is what makes the Jam go 'round, but here lately all I see are little sarcastic repsonses to other posts. I just can't wait until LTE2 is released so we can have some DTC. > i'm totally failing to see how in any way my statement > makes me too > uptight.....just because it's my opinion that your > opinion is > asinine, all of a sudden I'm constipated? === John Parks email_address_removed So much style without substance So much stuff without style Its hard to recognize the real thing It comes along once in a while. -Neil Peart- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:02:53 -0400 From: "Josh Calkin" To: "Ytsejam" Subject: The chain Message-ID: <000701be8833$598ee840$32aa889e@guest3382> I agree on most points about how the "chain" is over simplified, and how it's generally wrong to call ANY genre of music inferior or superior to another. However, I also notice that this chain DOES have some relevance. Pop->Metal->Prog->Avant Garde is (probably) the way in which each type of music came into being in the first place. On the other hand, though, this can't be construed as making later forms superior to earlier; time of appearance is in NO WAY proportional to quality. For those of you who know cars, I think it can be agreed upon that the '69 camaro was (and is) FAR superior to the '80s models... (sorry for the bad analogy) NP: ICP - Fat Sweaty Betty Regards, Josh Calkin: URL: http://members.tripod.com/~DarkHarmony E-Mail: email_address_removed email_address_removed ICQ: 22473371 AOL IM: Mortua ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:13:40 -0400 From: Frank Benenati To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: The chain Message-ID: > I think it can be agreed upon > that the '69 camaro was (and is) FAR superior to the '80s models... (sorry > for the bad analogy) Using camaro and superior in the same sentance is about as much a mistake as alternative music. Long Live the Mustang! :) -mojoman -- /\ /\ \_\/_/ / _ _ \ |\ \(*)(*)/ /| #-----------------OOO- \oo/--OOO------------# # Frank Benenati - email_address_removed # # "Some of the nicest people are dogs" # # - Richard Dean Anderson # #__________________________ooo______________# ooo (_) (_) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:23:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Andy Putman To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Avant Garde? Message-ID: > I'm probably only asking this because I'm too friggin tired to be > ashamed, but what is avante gard, musically speaking? Thanks. If > someone could give me some examples I think I'll catch on. Well, to hear a good example from a fairly famous group, you might want to pick up a copy of Thrak by King Crimson and listen to the title track. It'll blow your mind (actually, if you're in an adventurous mood, pick up 'Thrakatak' (I think that's how you spell it), the live cd. That's even crazier). After that, another good example is a group called Doctor Nerve. You can get their cds mail order from several places. Just do a quick search of the web. -Andy Putman ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:40:02 PDT From: "James Lenart" To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Just stuff... (Stripped, Raped and Strangled) Message-ID: >Hey jammerz! > > First time i use this addy! wohooo!! anyhow! I have a >question for you metal prog fans. I purchased 3 cds last week. >One from Stratovarius... fourth dimension I believe... very good >cd!! is it one of the best ones.. what other ones should I get.. >same goes for Blind Guardian.. i believe I picked up their latest >one.. the one from 1998 which has 22 songs, It's good. I wonder >how their 2 older ones are?! > >Mr. Prog hey, well i happen to be a *huge* BG fan so perhaps i can aid you with this question. i don't think it would be benificial for me to just tell you what albums i like so i will try to summarize a few of them. Imaginations is their most well rounded album...all the elements you found on N-IME will pretty much be apparent on that album as well...a bit more agressive overall, but perhaps not as dark/emotional. many people have complained about the production on this album as well...very fat, with sometimes the vocals overshadowing everything else during the chorus parts. Somewhere far beyond is a bit less melodic on the rythmn guitars than both the album before it and after it. this is usually the favorite album for most fans (although for me it is almost my least favorite). don't pass this one up though as their trademark song "the bards song...in the forest" is on it...(a side note, when this song is played live, it is done acustically with almost no vocals done by the band...the crowd sings the whole song...unbelievable experience so i have been told) Tales from the twilight world is *very* melodic and was their first bombastic chorus' album. very well rounded although most songs keep up a very fast pace (like "when sorry sang" on N-IME). if you liked any of the top 3 albums you'll like this one too. their first two albums, Battalions of Fear and Follow the Blind are both pretty much straight ahead thrash/power metal. musically these albums have many more instrumentals and changes but do not really change pace or speed. similar to early testament or "walls of jerhico" era helloween. check out these last if you really like N- IME. by all means check out their site, and get some other opinions. vcoejsmvhsogheoxmvcmoaimvckdudbenfibhsncjfpsncngobmznl s d f Jim Lenart url: m s "Sorrowed" www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/ s l icq:25717769 Palladium/5795/solitude.html v h a pckeisomnhyouaregaycoepmcnwodndlaoenbgzquamlgosmickdis -with April, and the beggining of spring, the season of renewal and growth is finally upon us. lets take the time to really charish all of nature's gracious gifts with a small token of our appreciation. with this in mind i have chosen to include Cannible Corpse song titles within all of my topics. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:50:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Andy Putman To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Strangle Yourself + comments on death metal Message-ID: > This "chain" of pop->metal->prog->avant garde is a joke, right? I mean, (btw, someone took out prog-metal from between metal and prog. there IS a distinction). I think someone misunderstood the point of the 'chain'. It was not meant to make universal, sweeping claims about the objective, relative value of genres (that's a mouthful, isn't it?:>). It was more to show how my musical tastes have changed over time. The earlier genres helped me get into that later genres. In fact, I'm willing to bet many people go through the same kind of musical changes. It takes progressively more and more attention and thought to listen to the later genres. That's an objective fact, but it doesn't imply that one genre is 'better' than another. It also does not in any way imply that I dislike or look down on any genre on the list. Heck, right now I'm listening to Marillion, and yesterday my band and I spent time learning 'Seek and Destroy', at my request. Only foolish people listen to merely a single genre, though most people (if you ask in the right way) will admit that there is one they listen to more frequently than the others. -Andy Putman ps-To the person who mentioned adding death metal, doom metal, industrial metal etc -- Personally, the only death metal album I've been able to get into is 'Individual Thought Patterns' by Death. I think what I like most about this album is that instead of just screaming mindless lyrics about death, satan, and sex, they actually try to do something more intelligent (actually, I seem to remember a song making fun of people who do this). Can you suggest any other death metal albums which possess this quality? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:51:43 EDT From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Different Intros Message-ID: In a message dated 4/16/99 9:17:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, email_address_removed writes: > Thank you > Joe Latuscha > > Sieze the day > I heard him say, > life will not always > Be this way > Turn around > Hear the sounds > Cherish your life > While you're still around. Isn't it Look around, hear the sounds? I may be wrong....I don't have my cd booklet around. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:44:42 -0700 From: email_address_removed (Dr. Mosh) To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Strangle Yourself + comments on death metal Message-ID: Before being sacrificed upon the altar..., Andy Putman thus begged: > >ps-To the person who mentioned adding death metal, doom metal, industrial >metal etc -- Personally, the only death metal album I've been able to get >into is 'Individual Thought Patterns' by Death. I think what I like most >about this album is that instead of just screaming mindless lyrics about You should hear Dimmu Bogir, these guys are insane... Death Metal with keyboards and technical prowess... -The Doc -- ------ email_address_removed -------------- ++++++ ---------------------- ///// http://progmetal.gmsnet.com ----------------==== Unix systems - C/C++ video game engine development =><=============== Administration ===================== Intranet/Internet Engineering ================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:45:48 -0700 From: email_address_removed (Dr. Mosh) To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: monster ballads Message-ID: I would have to nominate Dokken's Alone Again as the power ballad all other metal ballads are judged upon.. -The Doc -- ------ email_address_removed -------------- ++++++ ---------------------- ///// http://progmetal.gmsnet.com ----------------==== Unix systems - C/C++ video game engine development =><=============== Administration ===================== Intranet/Internet Engineering ================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:05:12 -0500 From: Jim Shields To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Strangle Yourself With The Listening Chain Message-ID: > This "chain" of pop->metal->prog->avant garde is a joke, right? I mean, >you're fucking kidding around, and I just missed some smiley faces, right? >Who has the audacity to put one genre on top of another in any sense, let >alone in such thoughtlessly general qualitative terms? What could be the >POSSIBLE purpose of this, other than foster some bogus elitism? What's >next, saying that your career is the superior career? I bet your eye color >is superior too. ummm... isn't he just showing the progression of music he's grown to listen to? I don't think he's calling any one type superior to the other, just that he started his music-listening life listening to pop, then metal, then prog, and then avant garde. he's not ranking them or saying one type leads to another or anything like that, I believe. Damn, some of us 'jammers are argumentative! Jim Shields Guitar/Vocals Room 213 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Spread before you is your soul / So Forever hold the dream within our hearts Through Nature's inflexible grace, I'm learning to live. Dream Theater "Learning to Live" -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ------------------------------ Date: 16 Apr 1999 23:44:21 +0200 From: email_address_removed (Jason T. Breitweg) To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Just stuff...regarding BLIND GUARDIAN Message-ID: Hi everyone, Mr. Prog> ones.. what other ones should I get.. same goes for Blind Mr. Prog> Guardian.. i believe I picked up their latest one.. the Mr. Prog> one from 1998 which has 22 songs, It's good. I wonder how Mr. Prog> their 2 older ones are?! and Angra.. I picked up You mean their FOUR other ones (not including their one live CD). In order from the older to the newest they have: Battalions of Fear Follow the Blind Tales from the Twilight World Somewhere Far Beyond (Tokyo Tales) = the live one Imaginations from the Other Side The Forgotten Tales Nightfall in Middle-Earth Anyway if you love NiM-E (and who doesn't? :-) ) then I suggest that you first pick up "Imaginations from the Other Side" and then "Somewhere Far Beyond" and once those soak in get the rest (maybe getting "Tales from the Twilight World" before the others. For some other mp3 samples from the other BG CDs you caan check out the media section at www.blind-guardian.com. I just wish those damn lazy webmasters there would update that page! *evil grin* Jason -- Currently Playing: HEAVEN'S GATE - Menergy -- +-------------------+------------------------------+ | Jason T. Breitweg | Home: +49 (0)40 23 80 90 98 | | Muenzstr. 11 | Work: +49 (0)40 89 98 31 57 | | D-20097 Hamburg | FAX: +49 (0)40 23 80 90 81 | | GERMANY | Mobil: +49 (0)171 176 79 37 | +-------------------+------------------------------+ | E-mail: email_address_removed | | http://www-zeus.desy.de/~breitweg ICQ: 7495933 | +--------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:02:39 EDT From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Important reminder ICE AGE performs live this Sat.!!! Message-ID: Magna Carta artists ICE AGE will perform this Saturday at the Voodoo Lounge in Bayside Queens, NY. Long Island's Ice Age have gone a long way a finally have an upcoming CD with Magna Carta out this June. Ice Age's music has been described by many as heavy, dramatic, progressive rock. Those who have seen Ice Age at the Powermad concert can relate to this description. The band consists of guitarist extraordinaire Jimmy Pappas, a former student of John Petrucci, Arron DiCesare on bass, a former student of Berklee College Of Music, ex-Cold Steel drummer Hal Aponte and finally Josh Pincus on vocals and keys, a former student and friend of Kevin Moore. Despite their influences and musical inspirations, Ice Age have developed their own sound throughout their years of existence. The band focuses on song writing rather than constantly shredding fast licks and riffs. Make no mistake, these guys can also rip it up, yet they do it tastefully, focusing on emotion. Check their web-site for more info: www.ice-age.com www.magnacarta.net see you there! Ricky C! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:14:30 -0600 From: "Korg Ecksthrey" To: Subject: The Korg's Eye. Message-ID: <005101bd699f$eb84afe0$4a0d84d0@default> > This "chain" of pop->metal->prog->avant garde is a joke, right? It's really a matter of musical evolution, an expanding of one's sonic horizons, per se. Not pointing out that "this is better than that." Some people just evolve faster than others. Chris came out of the womb with "Jim Dunlop Jazz III" engraved on each fingernail. :) Just got a headstart is all. :) Now consider music to be something of a labyrinth, a circular maze. At the center, you have the most convenient, easiest accesible music available. The center consists of the mainstream. We all start at the center (generally). Most people are content to stay in the center. Most musicians aren't and some non-musicians aren't. We wander out into the maze searching for something new. The second most accesible form of music in the rock genre is likely metal (nowdays) although in the past it could have been jazz or fusion. Some people will wander around in this area of the labyrinth for some time and perhaps journey back to the center, while others, seeking more of a challenge will wander into the third tier. Other things that might be found in this area are hardcore... techno... funk... Tom Jones... The third most popular tier would be progressive rock/metal. More challenge. Alot of people tend to like this area and camp out. Some people wander into a dead end and stop, perhaps moving back to the center. Some people still aren't content with this area and move to the outer fringes of the labyrinth. Some people might wander all around the third tier, taking in the things that branch off, such as jazz, or fusion... The outer fringes are where all of the really fucked up shit is. The stuff that many people who don't have a severe respect for musical ability will avoid simply because it is so fucked up. Alot of people will stop at this point. It's not a favorable area, but it's a fun one to be in at times. Quite a few people will turn back into the third tier and beyond, but then, some people find themselves at the outer wall of the maze. What lies outside the maze you ask? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Then why reach that far? This area is pretty much for musicians only. What people do here is simply build on to the maze. Creating their own impact. Their own style. Their own new form of music. Seldom anymore is the labyrinth added to, but it slowly and occasionally is. If you do create your own part of the maze, don't expect alot of visitors, as there are few who will journey that far. But isn't it more fun to create that section rather than simply let the space go to waste? :) I know I only made references to the rock style above but I'm not limiting music to be all but that. Each style of music branches outward in a separate direction, but being a circle, you may find yourself returning to the center in a different direction than you'd intended. You may have departed via the pop quadrant and wander into the borders of the rap section without realizing it. Slowly you may find yourself enjoying something you'd despised before, if you're not afraid to let it seep into you. You could always wander from the rock section to the fusion section into the funk section and back out the rap section. The farther you delve deeper into the maze the more the various generalized styles of music tend to meld together to where you can't categorize anything. It's like musical nirvana, but it can be acheived no matter which direction you take, as long as you keep moving forward. >The last album that destroyed me was Sting's Soul Cages (which Killer album, BTW. Sting's one of the whackiest songwirters out there. Very great songwriting while a little off the wall. And Dominic Miller is one of my favorite guitarists, too, thanks to him. :) Anyway, I'll let this little venture into my mind come to a cease. Please remain seated until the ride comes to a complete stop, and thank you for riding me! -- KorgX3, Marionette... of the GODS! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:37:27 -0600 From: "Korg Ecksthrey" To: Subject: Re: TOP bass player Message-ID: <007801bd69a1$68c90ea0$4a0d84d0@default> >No, a thousand times no. The bass player for Tower of Power is Rocco Ricc, Rocco... What's the difference? One vowel? *wields a 4" double check valve fire sprinkler assembly and dares you to flame him* So I fucked up. :) I guess I should have checked my sources. hehehe. Anyway, here's some info on Mr. Fierabracci, albeit a little dated, for everyone's reference. http://www.swreng.com/swrqaeight.html -- KorgX3 is still reeling from that last big post. ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 4810 **************************