YTSEJAM Digest 4744 Today's Topics: 1) 3rd eye mellon by "Isaac Trumbo" 2) Type O' Agony by David Dixon 3) Re: Shannon Hoon by "Brian D. Hayden" 4) DT Boots for sale. . . by email_address_removed 5) Indian music/odd-meters by John Parks 6) Blind Melon by Robert Jurado 7) Re: Shannon Hoon by Frank Benenati 8) Re: please explain... by Craig Griffith 9) Re: more on the drum debate (well not exactly) by "Harry D' Amour" 10) Re: Scatterbrain man by Cyberwolf 11) Virgil Donati MP3 by "Kevin Rackley" 12) Re: Shannon Hoon by Carlos Alfaro 13) X-mas '98 tree? / Winamp skins by Lobsterback 14) Retarded by Al Balkiewicz 15) 4/4 conditioning by Paul Weiss 16) Shannon WHOon? / Steve Morse / Comparing and Contrasting...why I do not know :) by Jon Parmet ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:00:35 PST From: "Isaac Trumbo" To: email_address_removed Subject: 3rd eye mellon Message-ID: >>dead 3rd Eye Blind guy.. drug overdose.. >>i think mike threw him in the song along with kurt cobain cause >>mr. hoon made a pissy comment somewhere about dream theater being >>a shitty band..so naturally he encured the rath of god and is now >>deceased.. sucks for him.. > >He was the singer from Blind Melon same difference inferno Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:03:00 -0700 From: David Dixon To: "'email_address_removed'" Subject: Type O' Agony Message-ID: <3093FD59DB69D11193AA00A0C960564980930B@messaging> Thanks for the info - there is very little info on the band on the net, and most of it is conflicting - thanks for setting the record straight... :) <<<<< ]From: David Dixon > You know, it's kinda funny how Johnny Kelly came to be a member of Type O > Negative. He was Sal Abruscato's (previous drummer, who quit to join > Life of Agony) drum tech, and the reason TON chose him is because, A) He didn't quit Type O to join Life Of Agony, because he was in Life Of Agony all along. As much as I know, he was pushed out of Type O because he was a miserable and depressive dude who couldn't get along with anybody. That was the reason why he got the boot from Life Of Agony two years later as well. >>>>> David Dixon, MCP Internet Developer Integrated Information Systems, Inc. email_address_removed email_address_removed ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:07:02 -0600 From: "Brian D. Hayden" To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Shannon Hoon Message-ID: Responding to the message of from email_address_removed: > > > > Second Question: Who is Shannon Hoon in JLMB? > > Former singer for alternative rock band Blind Melon, best known for the > "bee girl song" cus no one remembers the actual name.. talked crap about > Dream Theater and overdosed on heroin shortly after. Some jammers > thought he got what was coming. Okay. The guy was an asshole for shooting up the smack. That's just a stupid thing to do to yourself. He's right up there with Kurt Cobain, Layne Staley, and Jimmy Page and all the rest on that one. Having said that...all of you who are glad that he died because he ripped Dream Theater really are sad, pathetic little people. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about music, and to wish someone death because of the kind of music they make is just about the most disgusting thing I've ever heard. And btw, the name of that song is "No Rain," and the album is pretty damn cool. -Brian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:15:57 EST From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: DT Boots for sale. . . Message-ID: Due to the large amount of e-mail I've received from my last post I've decided to put my CDs on eBay. It was just too much work keeping things straight myself. Right now I only have Majestic Harmonies available for bidding. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=77575602 There will be a few more soon. Tom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:16:51 -0800 (PST) From: John Parks To: email_address_removed Subject: Indian music/odd-meters Message-ID: You wrote: >I once played with an Indian percussionist and even >though the song wasin 4/4 >the stuff he played was in 3/4 and he said that it >sounded more naturalforhim. >And you'll catch yourself on the thing that if you >listen to alot >of Indian music in a row you'll start digging those >complex rhythms and they'll >feel much more natural!!! Do you know of any cd's that I might want to pick up with some of this Indian playing? And speaking of complex rhythms feeling natural, I must give credit to a man that seems to be able to this better than anyone I have ever heard; Vinnie Colaiuta. His playing with Sting has the best 'feel' I have ever heard when it comes to complex rhythm/odd-meters. Sometimes when he is playing in 5/7/9 it feels like its in 4. He has a neat little trick that lets him do this. He plays polyrythms over the meter usually on his hi-hats or his ride. Take a phrase of 5 for example. He'll play "down beats" on his ride or hat on 1,3,5 for the first measure then play beats 2,4 in the next measure. This way the odd-meter (5) feels grounded to an even pulse. later all NP: Sting/Mercury Falling == John Parks email_address_removed _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 01:38:08 +0700 From: Robert Jurado To: email_address_removed Subject: Blind Melon Message-ID: Umm...I don't think it was Shannon Hoon who made the derogatory comments about DT. I believe it was the guitarists Christopher Thorn, or whatever his name is, and his equally forgettable friend. Anyway, who cares. I think they also vilified Nuno Bettencourt as well. Enough bandwidth for these a$$holes. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:44:04 -0500 From: Frank Benenati To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Shannon Hoon Message-ID: "Brian D. Hayden" wrote: > > Having said that...all of you who are glad that he died because he ripped Dream > Theater really are sad, pathetic little people. I ripped into Hoon for a plain and simple reason. He is a professional. I'm not. In his position, he shouldn't have said what he said. Not only is it not professional, it's down right childish. Think about it this way. You go to a baseball game and you can't stand the pitcher of the oposing team. You yell out all sorts of nasty things about the pitcher, his mother and curse his firstborn. Is that OK?? Sure, you're at a fucking ballgame. Now, is it OK for the starting pitcher on the other team to yell out the same things??? No way. It's un-professional. No one in Dream Theater had ever ripped into other musicians, to the best of my knowledge. Unfortunately, Hoon decided to stoop to that level. I can do that sort of thing because I hate the music that he made! I hate what it stood for! I hate the very fucking essence of it! all of it. Now the fact that it was a dumb or stupid thing for Hoon to rip Dream Theater, does it make it OK for us Dream Theater fans to get all pissy about the fucker, even though he's dead??? Hell's Yeah!!! Sometimes I LIKE stooping to the other fuckers level. Tough Shit!!! That's what the fucker get's being a smack-shooting-douchebag. Some people may like it (including yourself)...some may even buy it...Do I hate the people that buy it?? No way!!! Tthere's a guy that lives 2 appartments down from me that slips his 'male' roomate the hot beef injection nightly. He's even got a little kick-dog that looks like Verdel. Do I condemn the guy??? No way!!!! But, If the pillowbiter started talking shit about DT!!!! Hell, now there's reason to throw the bitch out the window!!!!!! -mojoman -- /\ /\ \_\/_/ / _ _ \ |\ \(*)(*)/ /| #-----------------OOO- \oo/--OOO------------# # Frank Benenati - email_address_removed # # "Some of the nicest people are dogs" # # - Richard Dean Anderson # #__________________________ooo______________# ooo (_) (_) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:51:57 -0500 From: Craig Griffith To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: please explain... Message-ID: Joshua Rasiel wrote: > I have nothing against Craig, King of Craigland and all Her imperial > satellites of love. > > But this is something that's been annoying me for some time. I don't get > it! Why was 4/4 "beat into people", particularely us moronic "Western" > people? Did the music industry just decide, one day, that 4/4 would be > the rule? And if so, why? They must've had a reason. Well, it goes back much further than the music industry, to classical and traditional music. Ever notice that a lot of that is either in 4/4, 3/4, or 7/8 time? It's just the way music became in an area of the world that spread its culture to here. The reason is a bit harder to discern, but it's probably because the music just evolved that way in that part of the world. In other areas, folk music quite often is in time sigs much more alien to this part of this world, and that feels as natural to them as 4/4 does to us. Examples: Eastern Europe and Africa. > I think it's much more accurate to say 4/4 is naturally, genetically, a > 'catchy' time sig. It's not in an industry's favor to force things on > consumers that they wouldn't naturally gravitate to. No profit there. Again, it's not the industry, it's the culture that created the industry. > Why would 4/4 so successful if we weren't already programmed to like it? > If we were really meant to listen to 15/7 and 8/3 alternating every > third measure, why wouldn't they just use that to make all the songs? As far as I'm concerned, there is nothing people were "meant to listen to", just things people are inclined to listen to due to their importance in their culture. -- Craig Griffith: High school student, guitar player, King of Craigland http://www.geocities.com/EnchantedForest/Dell/8509/ "I may make you feel, but I can't make you think" -Ian Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:50:48 +0200 From: "Harry D' Amour" To: Subject: Re: more on the drum debate (well not exactly) Message-ID: <199903151755.TAA07168@forthnet.gr> Dr Mosh: >LARS FUCKING SUCKS ASS AND METALLICA *IS* THE DEFINITION OF A >SELLOUT BAND -I don't like talking about Metallica here, but Mosh's shouts travelled all the way across the Atlantic and almost left me deaf....anyway I'm not replying to Mosh, as he has formed his opinion, I' m trying to get through to the rest of the jammers. Do you think that Metallica needed to sell out? What about the millions of copies of the Black Album sold....do you think that they'd sell less if they just released a BA pt2? Don't think so....Metallica were already selling like crazy and changing their style in Load was a bit of a risk (though there is no such thing as risk when we talk about bands that popular). I don't think that albums like Load and Reload will sell more than BA or MOP pt2 would, at least long-term speaking, and that's because the audience that L and RL aims at is not a stable and guaranteed market. At this time, Metallica need none and everything they do is guaranteed to sell a lot. So they're just doing what they enjoy most. Garage inc is another proof that they didn't sell out, they're just having fun playng their favorite tunes. -Another thing that pissed me off and I got to say it is Jon Schaffer's and his little pet Matt Barlow's attitude. They go around blaming Metallica "and bands that betray their fans" and swearing that "the day they'll betray their fans is the day they die" These words come out of Iced Earth, one of the few bands that's ripped off Metallica riffs so blatantly, especially those in Master of Puppets album. Of course, they wouldn't dare to change their style (though I like Something wicked....), not out of respect for their fans but because they've created a core of fans that they'll be buying their albums until they die. But I didn't see Dr. Mosh or anyone else judging Iced Earth....Iced Earth should at least keep their mouth shut and show some respect for their greatest influences. I don't want to waste ytsejam's space, sorry I did that, so I'm not saying anything else. DTC: DT always show respect for the bands that have been influence to them (well, I didn't think of anything better, hehe). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:02:15 +0000 From: Cyberwolf To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Scatterbrain man Message-ID: And also, the Drummer from Scatterbrain, M ike Boyko, is currently in Fat, and the old guitar player, Glen was, last I remember in a band called Stone. Again, I must re-itereate, if you like Scatterbrain, the MOST under-rated band EVER is MORDRED. C'aio, funkaholics! SM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:07:57 -0500 From: "Kevin Rackley" To: email_address_removed Subject: Virgil Donati MP3 Message-ID: If anyone is interested in hearing some Virgil Donati, just e-mail me. = I'll send you a quick MP3 of one of his solo songs off his album "Stretch".= Warning, not for the double bass faint at heart. This guy plays as fast = with his feet as most drummers do with their hands. Double strokes, = inverted double strokes, you name it. Kevin Rackley Official Soul Reason Website http://members.home.net/soulreason ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:08:43 -0400 From: Carlos Alfaro To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Shannon Hoon Message-ID: Frank Benenati wrote: > "Brian D. Hayden" wrote: > > > > Having said that...all of you who are glad that he died because he ripped Dream > > Theater really are sad, pathetic little people. > > I ripped into Hoon for a plain and simple reason. He is a professional. > I'm not. In his position, he shouldn't have said what he said. [...] > Unfortunately, Hoon decided to stoop to that level. Actually he didnt, the 2 so called guitarrist from the band did. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:09:26 -0500 From: Lobsterback To: email_address_removed Subject: X-mas '98 tree? / Winamp skins Message-ID: 'What ever happened to the proposed CD-R/tape tree for the Dream Theater '98 X-mas shows' I asked last week. There was one response, and that was just an echoing of the original question. There's got to be some people on this list of, what, 2000, that know the answer. I see Scarred Records will be selling a recording of these very same '98 X-mas shows in the near future ('5 Days In A LIVEtime'), which makes me wonder if perhaps the silence is for a reason... I'm unable to do any tapetrading at present due to a deck problem, but if anybody's up for some CD-R trades (yes, you heard right, you *can* get bootleg CD-Rs without paying out the nose for them), please check out my trading page and drop me a mail. Unrelated, does anybody know of a program or procedure to create Winamp skins? Brian =================================== Name: W. Brian Henderson, Esq. Contact: email_address_removed ROBOT-CENTRAL: http://www.wam.umd.edu/~hender/ His Faithful Bootleg Page: http://www.wam.umd.edu/~hender/Musik/Boot/ =================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:24:28 -0500 (EST) From: Al Balkiewicz To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Retarded Message-ID: Brian is saying, "those of you who are grateful in the fact that shannon hoon died because he ripped on DT, etc. are pathetic" mojo is saying, "shannon hoon's an asshole, i have the right to say it, you can't stop me." then goes into some analogies that I don't get and are irrelevant to anything... both of them are right, but in different ways...... If people think Shannon Hoon is an asshole, then fine. But if you're saying, "I'm glad the fucker is dead - he ripped on DT, he was a junkie, he deserved to die", then you're a dick. No if's, and's, or but's...... I don't feel sorry for him cuz he's dead and left behind a family and a band and all that. But there's no way in hell that I would say that he deserved dying, especially because of something as ridiculously trivial as bashing another band. And, to boot, everyone's hating the guy when HE WASN'T EVEN THE ONE BASHING DT! So now you people are reveling in this man's death because of guilt by ASSOCIATION. If you don't like a band, then don't like them. Don't get stupid and trivialize someone's death because of it. By the way, this has nothing to do with Blind Melon, Mojo himself, or anything specific. Some people on here have to learn to put things into perspective, I think........ - Al On Mon, 15 Mar 1999, Frank Benenati wrote: > > "Brian D. Hayden" wrote: > > > > Having said that...all of you who are glad that he died because he ripped Dream > > Theater really are sad, pathetic little people. > > I ripped into Hoon for a plain and simple reason. He is a professional. > I'm not. In his position, he shouldn't have said what he said. Not only -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= w e w a l k i n t h e d a m a g e o f m a n k i n d -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= email_address_removed OR email_address_removed ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:27:47 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Weiss To: A Mind Forever Ytse-ing Subject: 4/4 conditioning Message-ID: Josh posted: >Why would 4/4 so successful if we weren't already programmed to like it? >If we were really meant to listen to 15/7 and 8/3 alternating every >third measure, why wouldn't they just use that to make all the songs? Thanks for the transcription of Ringo's drum beat. :) However, I disagree on your premise. We are not genetically programmed to like a particular repetitive pattern consisting of four beats evenly divided into 4 quavers. It is called common time for the simple reason that it was the most common time signature used in Western music. The term "Western music" does not imply that it is the realm of morons, merely to differentiate from Eastern music eg ragas, tibetan chants, other popular songs of the orient. 3/4 was used heavily as well, but rock music was a reaction against staid forms like the waltz [try doing the twist to the Blue Danube]. The music "industry" didn't choose the time signatures bands should write their songs in [unspoken commandment: Thou shalt write thy songs in 4/4 or thy song shalt not receiveth airplay and maketh you a ton of greenbacks]. If the kids don't like it, they won't support it. Meanwhile, Joe asked: >The metronome part, or the two dollar whore part? Hell, if he doesn't get diseased from the cheapest whore you can find, use the metronome. :) Ade mentioned a new band: >bling melon Interesting name. I'd much prefer to my name my band Phlegm, though. Korgy spewed: >KorgX3 mochte (I can't umlaut dammit!) Tarje mit sauerbratten. I can't either from this account because it doesn't support a 256 character set. Really, if you can't spell words correctly, speak English, you crackhead. BTW, your Chelsea and ferret desire was redundant. P deseo a Gloria Estefan con nachos! Cha cha cha. Dark Aether Project: Feed the Silence ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Paul's biweekly musical quote: Can't you see that I am not afraid/ What was that promise that you made?/ Won't you tell me what she said? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:40:32 +0000 From: Jon Parmet To: email_address_removed Subject: Shannon WHOon? / Steve Morse / Comparing and Contrasting...why I do not know :) Message-ID: > Second Question: Who is Shannon Hoon in JLMB? Apparently not much of a household name :) Found the following on Steve's web site, trimmed the beard a little, and pasted it here: > Name: Steve Morse > Date/Time: 3/12/99 10:07 PM > Subject: Re: Jon Finn > Phil Matza on 3/7/99 6:08 PM said: > >>I am an ex student of Berklee, Jon Finn was my teacher, I know that there are > kind of similtudes beetween you and Jon, what do you think of this great player > >> > I think that Jon is a monster player. He is a very articulate teacher, and a patient > organizer. He improvises very naturally and has plenty of technique to back up his > ideas. > Steve Amidst the talk of popularity, selling out, ego, etc., I find it interesting that Finn grew up listening to Morse; yet here's Steve praising HIM! Also interesting to note that Steve mentions "technique" last. Not that it's not important, more that it's nice to have the chops as a tool at your disposal; but there's a point where you need to move beyond that to take it beyond the level of what a machine can do... I've listened to a fair number of the guitarists touted as supposed deities of shred and, IMHO, there's a lot of one-trick ponies out there. Steve is so much more of a COMPLETE player. DTC: I've seen Steve mention John Petrucci in high regard as well, and we all know how JP feels about him :) So... look's like he's touring South America,Australia,Malaysia, maybe Sweden and Germany. Even if you think Deep Purple is too popular or not prog enough or something, perhaps it's worth it to check 'em out just to see Steve playing :) Dudes that got me inspired to pick up a guitar? Steve Morse, Ian Anderson, Steve Howe, Alex Lifeson, George Harrison, Stephen Stills, Jimmy Page... playing acoustics :) Si of Borg: >pioneers than Zeppelin, and yet if you put on ANY Zeppelin album, >it's aged far better than ANY Beatles album. If someone put "When I'm ANY? :) heh :) This is a clue as to where this is going... :) >64" on the radio, you'd PISS YOURSELF LAUGHING. But if someone put on I'm pissing myself laughing right now....and there's no music playing :) >"Heartbreaker" or "The Rover", or "In the Evening", or....You get the point. I get YOUR point, I just question whether or not it is THE point but rather A point, albeit a weak one :) Let's see: if you put on "Hot Dog" and compare it to "Helter Skelter", but you get my point, right? :) Not to nitpick, as I'm not sure if you were placing the above in the context of your comparison of Ringo to Bonham; but Wasn't Bonham already well on his way to decomposing before "In the Evening" came out. In any event, I grew up listening to Zeppelin. My brother had "Whole Lotta Love" on 45... I was only 7 when it came out, but I can still see the label mezmerizing me as it spun round and round while Plant had multiple orgasms :) Zep had quite an impact on me growing up. And so did the Beatles. Fact of the matter is, whether you like it or not, bands several years prior to Zep's time like the Beatles and the Byrds were exploring shit with rock 'n roll (distortion, feedback) in ways that just hadn't been done yet to that level. They got little boys like Jimmy Page to even start to THINK about the possibilities. But I guess if it's too simple it automatically becomes laughable. "Aged far better?" according to who? I will remember and enjoy many a Beatles tune long after I've forgotten "In The Evening" :) I imagine the fan base that the Beatles developed over the years outnumbers that of Zep by 2-3 generations of people. "Aged far better?" 80 year olds can probably hum several Beatles' tunes....imagine Bessy attempting to crank out "You know you shook me baybay!!! You shook me all night lonnnnnnnnnnng" and watch her run for the clapper as she proclaims "I've soiled myself.....and I can't get up!!!" you get my point, right? :) The point is kinda moot for me anyways because a band called Chicago Transit Authority had already stolen away a fair amount of my attention, putting out some serious compositions with complex time signatures, yadda yadda yadda. After Zep's first 5 albums, I kinda grew tired of it; and I needed a break from the Beatles as I simply overdosed on them. Too bad Chicago went south on me after their 5th album 'cuz these were some gifted musicians. Good thing the PROG revolution came and saved it all :))) DTC: Someone tell me that Awake-era Mike Portnoy doesn't look vaguely like Page in the picture at: http://www.monmouth.com/~areisner/zep/graphics/jimmy.jpg :) ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 4744 **************************