YTSEJAM Digest 4659 Today's Topics: 1) mac machines by Damon Fibraio 2) Boots by email_address_removed 3) Re: ideally... by Phil Carter 4) Two things by Andrew Coutermarsh 5) re: Open letter to the Calicrew!!! by Brian Hansen 6) The Day's mumblings from above... by "Ambassador Nelaskon" 7) TONY HARNELL VOCAL RANGE by email_address_removed 8) I'm full of by "Rahul Ananda" 9) Jazzy Theater by "Rahul Ananda" 10) OIAL by "Steve Ferris" 11) Re: OIAL by Andrew Coutermarsh 12) Home on the Range by Adam Barnhart 13) Re: Jazzy Theater by Damon Fibraio 14) Bret Michaels & other 80's news-c'mon, I know you're curious! by email_address_removed 15) Re: DT-DS Anthology? | FAQ spoilers | lyrics | ideally by email_address_removed 16) TNT, OIAL, and I'm a little teapot, short and stout. by "Korg Ecksthrey" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 17:33:25 -0500 From: Damon Fibraio To: email_address_removed Subject: mac machines Message-ID: Well, this is better than flame wars. Anyway, here are my mac machine nightmare. The worst one being the mac machine with braille buttons, but a touch screen interface where the buttons for accessing the menus are. Like this is really going to help us out, folks. What about the machines where the braille is so worn down that it isn't readable. Or the ones where they are outdoors and always where the wind is blowing the hardest in the middle of winter so that your fingers are too numb to read the buttons. And of course, my favorite, the buttons are in braille, but the screen is still inprint and your receipt is still in print, so it still requires, to some degree, sighted help, unless you can memorize all the damn possibilities, which doesn't exactly work if they constantly upgrade the software. Whew, I need oxygen. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 17:41:05 EST From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Boots Message-ID: > If anyone ever makes profits off of CD-Rs.. (which would likely be very > small)... perhaps they should think about pyutting someof the money asside > and sending it to the band :) Perhaps give some to JP and he will like > boots better! I am pretty sure JP could not accept (unless it was payed in cash :o). I think if he accepted, he has just profited outside of his record contract without permission from the record contract (of which the record contract will of course NEVER permit). Ever noticed the "xxx appears courtesy of xxxx" on an album when an artist records outside of his PRIMARY record label? Same idea. The main problem is the record companies in general. The business deal is struck as: Record label = employer / Recording artist = employee. In other words, the employee (artist) produces a product or report (CD/album) for the employer (label). Just like in any business, you can't get payed by an employer to do research (writing and recording songs) and then give that research to a competing employer (competing label - which is every label BUT the original label). It really is best to just think in BUSINESS terms. So you say the problem is that it should be Recording artist = employer / Record label = employee. Well, what makes an employer? The guy with the know how? Nope. The guy with ideas? Nope. The guy with the money? YES. The other things help, but what it comes down to is recording artists don't have the MONEY to record and promote their own album. So the record label provides the money, much like an advance. The big difference from a bank is that a record label doesn't sue the artist if the "loan" isn't repayed through sales. A bank would. That is why the record labels penny pinch with artists. Because for every SUCCESSFUL artist they have - there are 99 more UNSUCCESSFUL artists. I'm not siding with the record label, but sometimes you have to look at both sides. I still think the record labels play dirty. I would love to see DT getting proceeds from bootlegs, but I think it isn't as simple as the bootleggers sending a percentage to the band. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 17:56:35 -0500 From: Phil Carter To: A Pleasant Shade of Ytse Subject: Re: ideally... Message-ID: Greetings ye 'jamanoids... Madsman wrote: > I totally concur with Al... it's really rare that you hear a stunningly >real piano on a prog cd. I assume it's been done a lot, but that effects >tend to try and make piano sound like something it's not. Not much to argue about here, since I agree with both Madsman and Al. No matter how good an electronic piano sound is, it doesn't compare to a REAL Steinway grand. I think that's why I like Cairo so much. Quite aside from the fact that the entire band is built around Mark Robertson's vast keyboard wizardry, Robertson insists on using a real grand piano for his music. Go listen to "Ruins at Avalon's Gate" from the self-titled Cairo release, or "Valley of the Shadow" from "Conflict and Dreams". >I don't for a second expect that Jordan will use anything >buy Kurzweil gear. Jordan has stated several times that he will never use anything but Kurzweil. I would find that a bit disturbing if it weren't for the fact that he can make his Kurzweils dance on the head of a pin, sit up and beg, and deal cards. :) ta, Phil ========================================================= Phil Carter -- email_address_removed http://www.mindspring.com/~philcarter "Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life." -- Berthold Auerbach ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:02:38 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Coutermarsh To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Two things Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Christopher W. Ptacek wrote: > BCDADCBGBCDADCBF# Chirs, what the hell is this song? I tried humming the melody to myself, but without a rhythm I'm rather lost. Help me out! ---------- I've been trying to figure this out to no avail. What is the piano riff that Derek plays in Lines in the Sand? I know that the first two notes are the two lowest D's on the piano, but after that... The right hand part starts on a G below middle C then jumps to the C... And after that, I lose it. Can anybody point me in the direction of this in notation or help me out or something? Thanks. ------------------------------------------------- Andrew Coutermarsh email_address_removed http://cout.ml.org/ ICQ: 2513441 ------------------------------------------------- FOR SALE: One parachute, used but unopened. One small stain. Going VERY cheap. ------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 15:10:50 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Hansen To: email_address_removed Subject: re: Open letter to the Calicrew!!! Message-ID: Andreas Schaefer wrote: > I'd like to use this forum to thank all the guys that gave me such a nice > welcome in California! ... > As soon as I find my own place there will be a big ytsejam-housewarming > party - I'll keep you posted (that also means you Mark Stahl and Paul Fini). Glad you're enjoying sunny(?) California! Bet you never thought you'd be listening to a live band play disco and top 40! ;op Actually that was just a happy hour that got big, not a full "Calicrew" party. There's a "Calicrew" mailing list with a lot more people on it (not sure about the full address). You may want to get yourself added to it...as well as anyone else out there new to the jam or the SF Bay area. Who maintains that list? hasta, BH _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 23:53:06 -0000 From: "Ambassador Nelaskon" To: email_address_removed Subject: The Day's mumblings from above... Message-ID: Okay. Here are my responses to the last several jams. >>>I find the cycle interesting. We go from dysfunction in tracks 7 and 8 to happiness in track 9.Then we return to dysfunction in track 10. SDV kicks in, and the dysfunction continues and, perhaps, deepens. We have come out of turmoil. We have been inspired by someone who can turn a drop of water into an ocean. Then, we end up in isolation, arguably worse off than we started. It's a pessimistic mood here in" Awake," but it's beautifully presented.<<< I agree here fully. And I think that's intentional too. The Awake album DOES tell a story, and what's REALLY sad is how true it is in reality. ------------ >>>You've never been more fooled if you say II is better than I! II is a result of I! :) The freak wrote Tubular Bells I on the age of 18 I think! :(( I don't get it, I just don't get it! When you listen the album you just can't comprehend how ca a human write that music!<<< Why not? But really, I heard TB2 first, and I thought it was cool. THEN I heard 1 and realized how much 2 was just a clone. Still, hear Tubular Bells III. It's not a clone. There's some really cool stuff on there, though I still think 1 is the almighty classic. Since when did the Ytsejam talk about my *other* style of music anyway? :) ------------ >>>Those of you looking for a nice DT-friendly music magazine might find it interesting to pick up a copy of the UK mag 'HardRoxx', which is apparentlygoing to be distributed throughout 80 Towere Records stores in the USA.<<< Yeah. It's so DT-friendly because the woman you all hate, Nikki Brooks, pushes them so hard there and is the ONLY one getting DT into that magazine. But nobody here cares. It's just me. ------------ >>>On the OIAL version of "Metropolis", what is the song they break into near theend (about 5:17)? It is some improv jam or is it a cover of another song?<<< QUIT asking that!!! It's been said SO many times. Okay, sorry. I asked too. After it was already dead. It's Freebird (by Skynyrd?) Anyway, it rocks out, but I don't listen to Skynyrd. ------------ And I'm going to look in the Guiness book for myself. I was absolutely SURE that the record for vocal range was just over 4 octaves. NOBODY has a 7 octave range. That's the whole frigging piano. Absolutely impossible. That blue chick in The 5th Element didn't have 6+ octaves. The "Lovin You" chick doesn't have 6+ octaves. No way in Hell Mariah does. The best opera dudes are 4. No way can a person cover 7. (please no play-on words jokes) But I'll go look it up for myself. Then I'll tell you if I'm right or wrong. Either way, I still don't think lame-ass Mariah can do it. ------------ Hey! Did you guys see that new Dax chick in DS9? Oh, my GOD! ------------ See 'ya next jam! -Nelaskon ECA Get your FREE Email at http://mailcity.lycos.com Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://personal.lycos.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:53:40 -0500 From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: TONY HARNELL VOCAL RANGE Message-ID: Mr. Tony Harnell from TNT is in the Guiness Book Of World Records for having a vocal range of 8 octaves....I repeat 8 octaves.....if anyone has seen him live or has any TNT material....they will know this is true....please respond if you dare. Later On Homos ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 15:57 -0800 From: "Rahul Ananda" To: "email_address_removed" Subject: I'm full of Message-ID: questions these days. I was listening to the radio at work and Led Zeppelin's "In the Evening" was played. During the guitar solo (the earlier part) Page makes this really insane guitar explosion kind of noise. I can't really describe it, but it sounds like he is physically reaching into the guitar and yanking out its colon. What the fuck is he doing there? 'Cause that's a really bitchin' sound. -Rahul Ananda ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 15:36 -0800 From: "Rahul Ananda" To: "email_address_removed" Subject: Jazzy Theater Message-ID: Chris Ptacek says: "it's really rare that you hear a stunningly real piano on a prog CD. I assume it's been done a lot..." This is weird to me but totally true. I, too, assumed that it's been done and keyboard players have seeking a piano sound that suits rock a bit more than the tonality of an actual piano, which seem to be confined more to jazz and classical. The trouble is, I can't think of an album in the prog realm with a real piano...though I'm not as much of a prog-head as some people on this list. Does anyone know specifically where real pianos or organs can be found? All I can think of is Rick Wakeman's church organ work on Going for the One, by Yes. Also, is that a real organ in the I Get Up I Get Down section of Close to the Edge? Because it sure as shit sounds like one and I don;t think they had keyboard sounds that sophisticated in the 70s. I've always thought DT could sound really great with a piano and JP playing jazz chords behind it, and JM doing some kind of walking bass line. Hell, let Mike throw a jazz ride pattern behind it and we might have their version of assymetric jazz ala Dave Brubeck or Dave Holland. Too bad they play Satan music, instead :) -Rahul Ananda ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 16:15:20 PST From: "Steve Ferris" To: email_address_removed Subject: OIAL Message-ID: Why isn't the symbol that's on every other release on the cover of OIAL??????????????????????????????????????????? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 19:46:47 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Coutermarsh To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: OIAL Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Steve Ferris wrote: > Why isn't the symbol that's on every other release on the cover of > OIAL??????????????????????????????????????????? You know, that's really a good question - Why ISN'T the Majesty symbol on the front cover of OiaLT? I can only say that it's probably because they have it on the BACK cover. I see a Majesty symbol on the front cover of Falling Into Infinity, but not on the back cover. I see a Majesty symbol on the front cover of ACoS, but not on the back cover. So maybe they decided to put it on the back of this album instead of the front cover because of the particular artwork that was being used. That's the best explanation I could think up. ------------------------------------------------- Andrew Coutermarsh email_address_removed http://cout.ml.org/ ICQ: 2513441 ------------------------------------------------- Sometimes, when I would read a very good book, I would stop and thank my teacher. At least, I used to, until she got an unlisted number. ------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 16:54:25 -0800 From: Adam Barnhart To: email_address_removed Subject: Home on the Range Message-ID: >From: Jon Parmet >Subject: Re: mariah carey & her self-cleaning vocal range > >Mariah who? :))) > >Back in the mid-late 70's, Minnie Ripperton hit an excruciatingly >painful note in a song called, IIRC, "Loving You." I'm sure there must >be a few people on here who remember this song and the absolute primal >agressions it would stir up? Yep. And Burger King's actually running that song in a commericial of theirs now. Painful, man...painful. >Imagine the alarm clock going off in the morning and this song comes on. >Now imagine the alarm clock in fully non-functional pieces :) > >That song actually pissed me off! > >I know nothing about comparing octave ranges but I'd hazard a guess that >Minnie had to be a good octave higher than the highest note I've ever >heard Mariah hit. There are some sounds that simply should be left in >the realm of silence; and on that note.... :) Actually, I heard a song of Mariah Carey's a couple of years back that really reminded me of "Loving You." It was very simple, in that she was "la la la"-ing sounds that only dolphins could hear. I don't know if it was THAT high, but if it wasn't, it was awfully close. Adam D. Barnhart email_address_removed email_address_removed http://www.cfmc.com/adamb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 20:28:32 -0500 From: Damon Fibraio To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Jazzy Theater Message-ID: if you listen to most any prog album from the 70s, any piano or organ you hear is authentic piano and organ. In fact, I am willing to bet that any authentic piano you hear in most 80s prog albums is just that. Not until the late 80s and early 90s when samples were easier to stick into keyboards is the line becoming blurrier and blurrier. Most Genesis albums use real organs and pianos upt hrough Wind and Wuthering, with the exception of the obviously electric pianos on Supper's ready, lamb lies down, trick of the tale and such. yes is always real piano for the most part. If it sounds really electric it is obviously not a piano. To my knowledge, Geddy Lee rarely used a real piano at all, let alone a real organ. Pink floyd? All those pianos in the 70s were real to me, except for the rhodes sounds which was a real rhodes. I would imagine that Derek and Kevin used real pianos in the studio for the albums, though. At 04:28 PM 2/8/1999 -0800, you wrote: > > > Chris Ptacek says: "it's really rare that you hear a stunningly real > piano on a prog CD. I assume it's been done a lot..." > > This is weird to me but totally true. I, too, assumed that it's > been done and keyboard players have seeking a piano sound that > suits rock a bit more than the tonality of an actual piano, which seem > to be confined more to jazz and classical. The trouble is, I can't > think of an album in the prog realm with a real piano...though I'm not > as much of a prog-head as some people on this list. Does anyone know > specifically where real pianos or organs can be found? All I can > think of is Rick Wakeman's church organ work on Going for the One, by > Yes. Also, is that a real organ in the I Get Up I Get Down section of > Close to the Edge? Because it sure as shit sounds like one and I > don;t think they had keyboard sounds that sophisticated in the 70s. > > I've always thought DT could sound really great with a piano and > JP playing jazz chords behind it, and JM doing some kind of walking > bass line. Hell, let Mike throw a jazz ride pattern behind it > and we might have their version of assymetric jazz ala Dave Brubeck > or Dave Holland. > > Too bad they play Satan music, instead :) > > -Rahul Ananda > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 20:53:31 EST From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Bret Michaels & other 80's news-c'mon, I know you're curious! Message-ID: In a message dated 99-02-08 17:33:31 EST, you write: << Anybody listened to Bret Micheals knew one? Murder in death row? I saw it out. >> "A Letter From Death Row" This is Bret Michaels solo album, which is also the soundtrack to a movie that he wrote, directed, and starred in. It was basically an independent film, so if you haven't really heard of it, that's why. It also stars Martin and Charlie Sheen. The album is actually really good and quite different than anything he did in Poison. It's basically a rock album, but not really in an 80's "big rock" vein. It's more reminicent of today's pop "rock" bands like Smash Mouth or something like that. He's also got some other movies coming out that he's either starred in or directed. One of which stars Mira Sorvino and Marlon Brando, to name a few. These movies are being put out by his production company called Sheen/Michaels Entertainment, which he's partners and good friends with Charlie Sheen. I heard Poison is gearing up for a big summer reunion tour starting Labor Day called "The Exiled From Mainstream Tour". So far, it looks like it may include Poison, Ratt, Great White, and Dokken-(who've just picked up Reb Beach to replace George Lynch). Other possible bands may be Def Leppard and Warrant. OK, I'm done ranting about 80's glam bands. But I feel I must add (before the inevitable flaming) that I'm a fan of this stuff because it's what was big when I was growing up through jr. high and high school, and they had some cool VH type solos which -hey, led me to find the real kickass guitar music like Vai, Satch, and of course our very own DREAM THEATER! Ok, ok. NOW I'm done. Later! Flame on, Justin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 21:10:12 EST From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: DT-DS Anthology? | FAQ spoilers | lyrics | ideally Message-ID: >< Why not do an anthology double CD of all of the Derek-era stuff that was unreleased (or at least, as much of it as will fit on a double CD)? And for that matter, it'd be pretty cool to hear some of the demos that never got to the studio. Songs like Speak To Me" have huge potential for Radio airplay, so why not release it properly? >< Because *that* would be the ultimate sell-out. Rather than progress and work on new songs and look towards the future, they do no work and throw together an album of already existing songs, throw some tag line on like "rare Dream Theater gems" or some shit, release it, make money, and get a single out of it. They have more integrity than to pull shit like that. Save it for the fan club CD. >< Part 3: A Crack In The Mirror from "Mind Control" bootleg! On trhis one Kevin is on keys right? After the piano sound solo, he changes the sound into more electirc, distorted AND he plays the first notes of Lines In The Sand!!!! What the ... ??? >< Of course that's Derek. Kevin didn't play any shows on the Awake tour. >< The question? Well I haven't read the story yet, but how come love is the final dance 'eternal', in "the only one". In my eyes 'death' is the eternal dance that is best described as eternal. "Love is the Dance of eternity" sounds very final to me. >< I guess the message is, love lasts forever, even after death. I guess. >< it's really rare that you hear a stunningly real piano on a prog cd. >< Doesn't Jon Oliva use a real piano? Honestly, I wouldn't know whether it's real or a keyboard unless I listen very closely, which I haven't, but I've never heard Savatage use keyboard sounds, so I'd assume he uses a piano. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 19:26:35 -0700 From: "Korg Ecksthrey" To: Subject: TNT, OIAL, and I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Message-ID: <006201be53d3$acdfb720$4b0d84d0@default> >seen him live or has any TNT material....they will know this is >true....please respond if you dare. Hmmm... I know he has a huge range, but 8 octaves? wow... That's including super pinchy squeally falsettoing and such? If you count that crap I think I have about 4 octaves (and I almost have tonal control over those higher registers). I thought we were just counting actual vocal range. Most people don't talk falsetto unless they're crossdressing... > Why isn't the symbol that's on every other release on the cover of > OIAL??????????????????????????????????????????? It's there. The little guy standing in the middle of the stadium has one tatooed just below his left nipple. >was a real rhodes. I would imagine that Derek and Kevin used real pianos in >the studio for the albums, though. I'm trying to remember back to the Live in Tokyo vid, but I'm pretty damn sure that when they were showing the studio clips, Kev was playing a real piano. (Surrounded? I can't remember) He was using a synth for the piano in Learning to Live, though... And wasn't that a real piano used for AnnaLee? I'm thinking it was because just as soon as Derek stop playing and the track fades out you can hear someone move a chair in the background, and I don't think that was from James' mic. >Later On Homos No, crossdressers... -- KorgX3 wishes he could find Knights of the New Thunder on CD. :\ ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 4659 **************************