YTSEJAM Digest 4568 Today's Topics: 1) RE: Munchings and Crunchings by TheCowGod 2) Yes recommendations by "Trent Thornton" 3) Re: Yes recommendations by Damon Fibraio 4) YES Music by "Al @ Switchcraft" 5) Re: Yes recommendations by Syrinx 6) Vinnie Paul drums... by DYER 7) LTE Live by email_address_removed 8) Re: bass pickin' by email_address_removed (Dale R Newberry) 9) I must be dreaming, please stop screaming... by "Al @ Switchcraft" 10) "The Truth Ain't Kind" by "Al @ Switchcraft" 11) Re: drums etc... by email_address_removed 12) VP by David Dixon 13) For Gurgi by "Christopher Ptacek" 14) Next stop, Monkey Island by "Christopher Ptacek" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:31:52 -0500 (EST) From: TheCowGod To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: Munchings and Crunchings Message-ID: > From: Trent Thornton > Subject: RE: Munchings and Crunchings > > When you've sampled a fair amount of what that particular genre has to > offer, you can conclude for yourself that you don't like it. It's that > simple. i agre, but there's a difference between deciding you don't like a genre and putting your hands over your ears and saying "no!! rap sucks! get away!" there's nothing wrong with not liking a genre of music, as long as you keep in mind that sometime in the future you might come across something in that genre that you WILL like. like you said, there's good and bad rock, and the same goes for other genres. moo. *** END OF TRANSMISSION *** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:41:33 PST From: "Trent Thornton" To: email_address_removed Subject: Yes recommendations Message-ID: I know this isn't DT content, but since Yes is a prog band and the members of this list seem to have an admiration for them, I thought I'd ask for a recommendation of Yes albums for a curious *potential* fan. I can't think of very many Yes songs that I've heard, so that's why I need recomendations. Thanks in advance. Trent ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:18:17 -0500 From: Damon Fibraio To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Yes recommendations Message-ID: Trent. If you want to steer away from compilation albums, go with the following: Fragile, The Yes Album, or Close to the Edge. Those are the three universally accepted yes albums. If you want a sampling of everything, pick up YesStory, or YesYears, the box set. At 07:01 PM 1/14/1999 -0800, you wrote: > > I know this isn't DT content, but since Yes is a prog band and the > members of this list seem to have an admiration for them, I thought I'd > ask for a recommendation of Yes albums for a curious *potential* fan. I > can't think of very many Yes songs that I've heard, so that's why I need > recomendations. Thanks in advance. > > Trent > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:45:04 -0600 From: "Al @ Switchcraft" To: retaehT maerD Subject: YES Music Message-ID: CyberDuke wrote: >That might be our curse, but weren't Yes recognized enough in their >time? Maybe some older fan can tell this, I can't speak about it! They >are legends, according all encyclopedias 'n everywhere so I guess that's >it! /Al removes his shaky hands from his walker and types: I was big time into YES starting about 1973, I was 12 years old back then. You have no idea how many of the Top 40 music buying people would say: "How can you listen to that crap, they don't even know how to keep a good beat" Believe me, YES was 180 degrees out of phase with the Pop music scene. YES was underground rock. (At least in the U.S.) If it wasn't for the success they had in Europe, I doubt they would have had a label in the U.S. marketing them. Guys like me were forced to listen our music in dark corners, wearing headphones, keeping the album spinning on the turntable so it couldn't be read, and hiding the album jacket under the bed. Just remember, I'm stronger than 90% of you, I survived the Disco era. You have no idea how many girls I through out of my Charger because they insisted on listening to Disco. Left turn - snow heap Right turn - Uriah Heep. Bye, bitch... -- Al - The Ytse-ProGtologist ^ Switchcraft Microsystems ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It's supposed to pack an awesome buzz" --Butthead ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:51:42 -0500 (EST) From: Syrinx To: Trent Thornton Subject: Re: Yes recommendations Message-ID: > I know this isn't DT content, but since Yes is a prog band and the > members of this list seem to have an admiration for them, I thought I'd > ask for a recommendation of Yes albums for a curious *potential* fan. I > can't think of very many Yes songs that I've heard, so that's why I need > recomendations. Thanks in advance. I'd select the one album Jon Anderson isn't on: Drama. This features Geoff Downes on keys, and Trevor Horn on vocals (not to mention Steve Howe, Alan White, and Chris Squire). Sadly, it doesn't sound like anything else in the Yes catalogue. - m. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= erotomania! - http://www.erotomania.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:29:06 +1000 From: DYER To: email_address_removed Subject: Vinnie Paul drums... Message-ID: >The interviewer right then mentioned that Paul likes to >duct-tape a quarter to each of his bass drum heads, right where the beater >strikes it. They didn't make it clear why he does this (except for the >sound that results). Does this give the crisp sound from the bass drum >which is one of his trademarks? If not, what does this accomplish? Yeah it makes the bass drums sound like dropping a ball bearing onto a tiled floor... :) Cheers Paul D. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:03:40 EST From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: LTE Live Message-ID: DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT no LTE in Chicago??!! Come on Santa Mike Chicago is inbetween New York and LA can't ya just swing in and play a show? Please for the sake of humanity play Chicago, Juli ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:03:13 -0600 From: email_address_removed (Dale R Newberry) To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: bass pickin' Message-ID: >Subject: Munchings and crunchings Hehe, isn't this from "The Black Cauldron?" It has been quite a number of years since I've read that, but for some reason it strikes me as familiar :). >JEEZUS! You're 15 years old! I think he's been around a while longer >than you... furthermore, it's NOT a new or uncommon (wacky) idea! Hey, thanks for defending me, although it was sort of wacky for me since I pluck the strings pretty damn hard, and have this nasty nasty habit of picking at my fingernails (that's why it didn't last very long :). One thing I do enjoy, sort of, is having some nice callouses on my fingers (which are pretty good right now since the action on my bass is insanely high. It's a piece of shit, though. I'm going shopping for a new one this week). I seem to remember reading somewhere where Steve Harris intentionally develops seriously hard callouses to get a hard attack. I could just be really out of it, though :). I actually think I might try growing my nails out again, though, just for the helluvit. I like experimenting some with getting different (even if they are subtle) sounds out of my guitar. Dale R. Newberry ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:16:00 -0600 From: "Al @ Switchcraft" To: retaehT maerD Subject: I must be dreaming, please stop screaming... Message-ID: Only true Alice Cooper fans will understand the subject of this post. IceQD wrote: >But ALICE COOPER put the shock into rock and roll!!!!!!!!!!! >Nice Ice Baby >(Or perhaps I'll change it to Cold Ethyl or even Ethyl Mertz hehehehehehe) >We go dancin' nightly, in the attic .......... YES!!! Billion Dollar Babies! I put the moves on many a babe while listening to the "Welcome to My Nightmare" album. I saw Alice live for the first time on that tour, back in *gasp* 1975. That's also the year I went to my first YES concert. The Relayer tour. This space intentionally left blank. (Not really, this is the area that I had a sick closing statement all prepaired to send off, and then decieded to back-space out) Maybe I should try that Chunky Chicken KoRn Chowder. It seems to work for Korg. -- Al - The Ytse-ProGtologist ^ Switchcraft Microsystems ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It's supposed to pack an awesome buzz" --Butthead ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:41:28 -0600 From: "Al @ Switchcraft" To: retaehT maerD Subject: "The Truth Ain't Kind" Message-ID: No Midwest LTE shows... *sigh* 500 miles is my limit. Oh well. ------------------------------------------- Korgerace wrote: >through a bunch more dickheads just to find one nice guy. :) Note, that >was just in reference to Cow's analogy and definitely isn't meant to offend >anyone. If you were offended, blow me. Would you like that original or extra crispy? It just scares me when someone uses dickhead, cow and blow in the same paragraph. OOP's, I left out tender roast. -- Al - The Ytse-ProGtologist ^ Switchcraft Microsystems ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It's supposed to pack an awesome buzz" --Butthead ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 00:15:33 EST From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: drums etc... Message-ID: >< Nope. Mike kicks of 6:00 with some high toms. You can tell this because Octobans have a very distinctive tone, Octobans have a lot mre attack. Just watch "6:00" on 5YIALT Mike clearly is using his smaller toms. Mike does use his octobans on the begining of "Just Let Me Breathe" Also for the Awake album Mike endorsed Mapex drums. Octobans are made by Tama. >< Nope. See the instructional video. You can see that that's his Awake Mapex kit. The Mapex insignia on the bass drum is blurred out. The video was filmed before and released after his deal with Tama. So he had octobans back then, too. The 6:00 intro, studio and live, is defintely octobans. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:10:45 -0700 From: David Dixon To: "'email_address_removed'" Subject: VP Message-ID: <3093FD59DB69D11193AA00A0C96056498091C3@messaging> <<< sort of an acoustic alternative to triggering? does he tape it on the inside or outside of the drum head? i assume outside, but just checking. moo. >>> On the outside. I've seen him do this both on the front (facing him) head and the back head (facing out), but I don't know what he currently does. I think the front head would give a more precise sound, but that's just me (and I, of course, am not the man. Vinnie is.). David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 00:09:53 -0600 From: "Christopher Ptacek" To: Subject: For Gurgi Message-ID: <001801be404d$b12f9e60$message_id_removed> >From: "Giannotti, Nick" >1. What about those who HAVE listened and decided that it's not for them? >There are those who may hate rap in any way, shape, or form, be it a >song by Public Enemy or a song by Bela Fleck; they may have listened >to rap for a while and then decided, "Hey, you know what, this sucks. I >don't like rap. It's not a worthwhile form of music, as far as I'm >concerned." Maybe that person's opinion will change in time (like mine >did), but if not, then you can't fault the person for being close-minded >when they gave it a fair shot. I for my part didn't mean that you have to like anything at all. I'm not telling anyone what cds to buy or what to like or dislike. But if you can't find some value in a genre of music, you're not allowing yourself to truly look. I'm not a big fan or rap. I will not put it down anymore though, because I've seen rap artists do things that have impressed me to a great degree. There are some rap artists that have an amazing rhythmic control, and there are some rap artists who write very cool musical ideas. They've done things that I KNOW I could not do without a great deal of practice... attained some level of mastery over their art. That means they deserve my respect. That doesn't mean I need to go buy the albums. It does mean that I have no business putting down rap anymore. I can find you similar examples in almost any genre. Look at Jerry Douglass, you country haters. Hit a record store that lets you play a song without buying it, and find the song "We Hide and Seek" (it's on Skip Hop Wobble or Slide Rule... I forget which) and just TRY to tell me that you weren't impressed to shit by the Dobro playing. It's a level of mastery at least as significant as that attained by the guys in DT. I am APPALLED at someone's (Not Nick) statement that "a majority of people buy music not because they like it, but because they don't feel like thinking for themselves" ... that is as elitist as it gets. How can one POSSIBLY discredit the majority of people's tastes out there?!? How is it that the majority is simply WRONG or ignorant? That's total TRASH! I mean, by those standards, what we listen to is crap, because some people think it is... people more educated than you. How many classical musicians would give DT the time of day? How many jazz musicians thumb their noses at anything that isn't improv or doesn't involve playing over key changes? What makes you right and them wrong? I'd say you're BOTH wrong for trying to apply objective standards like you are. (again, not Nick) I won't even get INTO the comment about how we all don't want to hear an E minor chord on piano, but instead prefer Moonlight Sonata... grrrrr >task - but I listened to more than enough of it to say, "You know what? Phil >Lesh is a great bassist. Matter of fact, the whole band is competent. But >this music has absolutely no redeeming qualities to me." Thus, I hate the >Dead - the band that specifies the genre, since they are the genre. (Before >someone pips up, Phish is a great band, but they're not a jam-band like the >Dead are, as far as I'm concerned. Apples and Oranges.) Does the fact that I >respect the musician mean that I automatically have to respect the music >they create? Yes, absolutely. It doesn't mean you have to "like" or "buy" the music... but in the fact that the Dead are by your account "competent" (as a non-fan of the band, even I would call them far beyond "competent" personally) they deserve your respect. Something in the bass playing made you say that the guy is a great bassist. That something is the music, not the person... it may be the technique or something like that, but it's something in the music, not in the personality. Where did this respect come from, if not the music? >From: email_address_removed >some of their other songs), though most of the time Ive seen the Dregs catagorized >as "southern rock/fusion" and even progressive (though I dont agree with that). Wow... they're considered the originators of instrumental prog. >You can make the arguement that Alman Bros. have done country stuff. But >when I think of country, I think of Shania Twain, Garth Brooks stuff. This is the stuff >that I dont like. But that's not all of country! I mean, I am sure you don't like all metal either. I have heard some metal which I pray nightly that I will never again have to endure... but I do like a good deal of metal. You like some country (the country fiddle tunes, and probably hundreds of songs you've yet to ever listen to) so why discredit the entire genre just because there is some music packaged to be easily digestable and catchy? I can't stand Shania Twain's voice when she sustains a note and adds vibrato. I don't like it. But whoever writes her songs does a masterful job of writing things that can get stuck in your head. That takes skill and talent. A marketing department alone can't do it. I can respect that. It doesn't mean I like her music. I respect Mariah Carey's vocal control (I am not even LISTENING to arguments about how she's talentless, people. I'm sorry... I can not see eye to eye with anyone who would make such a statement) but I don't like a whole lot of her music. I could never say that she sucks... what does she suck at? (don't go there) >Anyway, you say Morse has done country, so me liking the stuff he's done would >mean that, while I dont like that particular genre as a whole, I appriciate Morse's >technical ability and skill on guitar. You don't DISLIKE the genre as a whole either. You don't like the whole genre of prog. I have cds I could show you--but that would involve me having to touch them and put them in my cd player and stuff... which I will never be willing to do again if I can avoid them--anyways... prog metal that not even a mother could love. I have heard you say that you like prog metal. You don't like it as a whole. Why would you say you dislike country as a whole (please note, that was what my rant was about... cutting down a whole genre of music) Respect doesn't mean "like." I respect Mike Tyson's ability to kick my ass. It doesn't mean I like boxing (or violent ear nibbling either) >is Cynic. What Ive heard from the musicians is amazing (this one instrumental in >particular), even though I dont particularly like death metal as a whole. A member of this band has argued with me that they were not a death metal band (I think they were, at least at times). Again though, you have no reason to like death metal as a whole, or any genre as a whole... but in that the genre has earned your respect, why not extend this respect to other genres that you don't like as a whole but have earned your respect? That's all I'm getting at. This " is bullshit" attitude is the real bullshit, IMO. As an aside, PLEASE, someone who says that there's no talent in techno or trance... PLEASE make something better than Orbital. I'd just LOVE to hear it. ><<>If the person has obvious musical talent and/or techincal profficiency, >>then I think it would be wrong not to appriciate that talent. > > Then you are already wrong, by your own admission. I'm SURE you have >heard some talented country or R&B folk. I am simply positive.>> > >I know that I will be contradicting what I said in my last post, but yes, I am >wrong if you look at it in that way. Maybe what I call talent and musicianship >is not the same in every style (in fact, I know its not). This does not change the fact that what you said is makes you wrong for cutting down some genres. Further, musicianship applies to the specific kind of music that you're trying to make. No one can masterfully play all styles of music. No one. NO ONE. :) >and Three of a Perfect Pair. Some people say Kurt Kobain was talented. I think he >wasnt worth the shit from my ass. So yes, musicianship does lie in the eyes of >the beholder. I don't know. I believe like and dislike are in the eye of the beholder, but I don't think I could have written better grunge music... music that would reach as deeply into people... than Cobain did. I've already eliminated that possibility because of the manner in which I approach songwriting and guitar playing. I'm sure he would have been a terrible prog metal guitarist, but he was certainly a credible grunge musician, and he means a lot to a lot of people. I guess I'd consider him a viable musician. >Im not trying to say that Im the most open minded person in the world, because Im >not, and I wont pretend I am. But I would have to say compared to most people that I'm not trying to put anyone down. I just wanted to present people with an idea that maybe they haven't found the "One True Music" seeing as that's like a Holy Grail quest. I have well over 500 cds (a lot for a 21 year old student of modest income) and I know that I keep finding new styles of music that impress me. When I was 15 I was _way_ too ignorant to appreciate a lot of what I like now. I think you're light years beyond where I was at the time. >So maybe I am closed minded by your definition, but you know what? I dont give a fuck. See, now instead of being rational, you're being a bad ass. Have a nice day. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 00:49:56 -0600 From: "Christopher Ptacek" To: Subject: Next stop, Monkey Island Message-ID: <001f01be4053$457c7480$message_id_removed> >From: email_address_removed >This person seems to enjoy nit-picking and obviously wants to be someone!! >Makes me wonder how old ........ First, my dear, if you would do me the service of quickly reading this little slice off of Stephen Downes' page on logical fallacy: http://www.assiniboinec.mb.ca/user/downes/fallacy/attack.htm If you need any help understanding the page or why I asked that you read it, write me personally. If you have anything to add, I'm all ears, poochie. But maybe before you make a concerted effort to start some kind of flame war with me you should seek the counsel of some jammers that have been around this list a bit longer than you. >>sucks makes no sense. it's the same as saying that all black guys suck. >>there's no way you've met all of them. (warning i'm not implying that > >Good analogy, but IMO, if I was treated like shit by every here> person I'd met and someone told me that there were some good ones out >there, I still shouldn't be expected to get a wild hair up my ass to weed >through a bunch more dickheads just to find one nice guy. :) Note, that >was just in reference to Cow's analogy and definitely isn't meant to offend >anyone. If you were offended, blow me. But that still wouldn't justify you saying that all black people suck, would it? What you want has no bearing on what is, does it? I do see where you're going... like you have no urge to go hit BET and wait for that killer rap tune that will change your world... but that's not what I was getting at when I opened this whole can of worms. If you do actually listen to the rap music that you are exposed to on occasion and dislike it all, I have nothing to say about that. But if you have never heard anything you can respect in the genre itself as a whole, might you be missing something? I fully believe that there are some stupid people out there... millions of em. But there are rap fans who are not musically illiterate nor culturally illiterate... I mean, there's gotta be something to it... somewhere... right? >From: "Trent Thornton" >You don't need to listen to every rap CD there ever was to form on >opinion on that musical artform. I don't like most rap b/c most of the >rap (I'm just continuing w/ your metaphor) I've heard sucks IMHO. I >like Busta Rhymes, Dre and a few others. I can honestly say I don't >like rap. So what does it take to make the distinction that you LIKE Prog Metal (assuming you would say you do) and DON'T like Rap? But let's take a step back... I'm not talking about wanting to go out and buy everything... I'm not talking about liking and disliking something. I'm talking about respect. What would make one say that "rap sucks." ? Do notice, there's a difference between saying that "What I've heard, I hate" and "Rap (as a whole genre) sucks." It seems ignorant. Anyone can partake of this simple experiment. Write a serious rap song that's on the level with most of what's coming out today. Can you do it? I can't. I guess it takes more than cuss words, slang, and a drum machine, huh? I have a pretty good handle on those things. Your opinion, like or dislike, of any piece of music doesn't make it good or bad. Your sampling size (no matter how large) of the music you've heard doesn't justify making the claim that it's all bad. You could have EASILY heard only Anna Lee and TSM and concluded that DT was "way too light of a band for you." You could have heard only Carcass's or Death's first album and concluded that "they have no purpose but to try and write lyrics that disgust people... the talent's not there." You would, by that logic, never have heard LitS, Lie, or LtL. You would never have heard how crazy and impressive Death's Human (and most of the albums after it) or Carcass's Heartwork get. No matter how big a sample you take, it's not absolutely conclusive. Sure, conclusive enough to say you dislike what you've heard... but that doesn't justify the leap to saying that the whole thing stinks as a rule. That's all I wanted to say. - Chris ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 4568 **************************