YTSEJAM Digest 4537 Today's Topics: 1) RE: Perfect Pitch by email_address_removed 2) keys NDTC by James Hunt 3) Re: Argh! You're making my brain bleed! by "Brian D. Hayden" 4) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4535 by email_address_removed 5) that's so cool! by Joshua Rasiel 6) Just playin' clean up! by Christopher Ptacek 7) Re: Some quickie album reviews: Apocolyptica by email_address_removed 8) Re:CDs playing wrong / Perfect Pitch by AL 9) Response to people responding to responses of my responses. by "Korg Ecksthrey" 10) Voices of the jam by email_address_removed 11) Holiday Shows by Mike Pontrelli 12) HELP PLEASE!; Anyone Tape the Philly Show? by Keith Lambert 13) obviously NO taste by "Metzger, Mark" 14) AnalogGal's amazing journey by CyberDuke 15) Re: Argh! You're making my brain bleed! (12th notes) by Phil Carter 16) Re: Argh! You're making my brain bleed! by Cassiano Barbosa 17) fates warning, savatage, singles by Edward Polzin ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 00:14:47 EST From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: RE: Perfect Pitch Message-ID: Hello everyone, I always thought perfect pitch was a fastball letters high! : ) Take care and Happy New Year, Adam Perkowsky NP: DT Christmas CD ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 00:31:40 -0600 From: James Hunt To: email_address_removed Subject: keys NDTC Message-ID: Andrew Countermash blessed us with: > Another example: D flat minor. You will NEVER hear a darker key than D > flat (or C sharp) minor. That's why Beethoven wrote the moonlight Sonata > in C sharp minor - because the sound of it is SO dark. "Actually, I always find...D minor, to be the saddest of all keys. People weep instantly when they hear it." --the inimitable Nigel Tufnel :-P woo hoo hoo... James Hunt email_address_removed ahh, forget the signature... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 00:50:15 -0600 From: "Brian D. Hayden" To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Argh! You're making my brain bleed! Message-ID: Responding to the message of from email_address_removed: > similar to learning a language. Humans for the most part are MUCH more > apt to learn a new language (or develop Perfect Pitch) before the age of > 5-7 (depending on who you ask). Somehow, just as with learning to speak > fluently, this ability sort of turns off as we mature. In linguistics, this is known as the Critical Age theory, and is pretty much completely accepted. The critical age is usually said to be seven years old, after which time learning the structure of a language becomes a task of rote memorization rather than osmosis/trial and error. > I'm not the list scientist. I need Rogerio and Al and a couple > other folks to back me up here... but that can't occur according to my > understanding. The sound quality can arguably be different, but speeding > a cd's spin up or slowing it down will not change the pitch. Why doesn't > your 8 X CD Rom play awake in about 9 minutes flat? Why doesn't ESP > protection change the pitch of hand held disc players? Slowing the spin > down enough will cause the cd to not play at all, but I don't think you > can change the pitch. Anyone back me up on this with some scientific > mumbo jumbo? The difference is between analag and digital. An analog medium, such as a vinyl album or cassette tape, will lower or heighten its pitch if played slower or faster, respectively, because the method of recording produces a constant flow of the sound wave. With digital media, such as CDs, there is one small 'sample' taken at a periodic rate - this is why you hear about "sampling rates" in digital audio. The rate for CDs is about 44kHz. So digital recordings actually contain very finely demarcated sounds, rather than a constant flow. So, slowing it down, provided you adjust the equipment so that it will read the CD at the slower speed, will just extend the play length of each of these tiny pieces of sound; slowing it down enough will destroy the aural illusion, the intepretation of these bits as a constant noise by your ear. If you slowed it down enough, you could notice it easily; one second of a single steady tone, then one second of another steady tone, then one second of a third steady tone, etc. > I just realized that last night. Seriously. With this Mirror > debate, I can hear the Mirror in my head. When I put on the cd, the > pitches are identical. I think it's a product of listening closely and > repetitively. I hope it doesn't fade away... I'd like to be able to tune > the low B on my 7 string off of that pitch by memory. :) Yeah, I notice that too. I sing along to any music that I have in the CD player, and since I spend hours every day listening to music, and there are some songs that are really fun to sing, there are some that are really ingrained in my head. My pitch is faaaaaaar from perfect (my relative pitch is pretty damn fuzzy too), but through repetitive listening there are some things that I can nail right on every time. I notice it on guitar too - I'll be just plunking around trying to come up with something, and realize that the last two or three notes remind me of a familiar song so I'll sound it out, and it's usually on pitch if it's one I've listened to closely many times but if it's something I'm less familiar with it'll be more likely to be in a different key than the original. -Brian "You can't start a fire worryin' about your little world fallin' apart." - Bruce Springsteen ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 02:11:05 EST From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4535 Message-ID: In a message dated 99-01-02 17:33:11 EST, you write: << I was a little upset that the order of songs on that album turned out to be the set list at the show that night give or take (more give then take). >> My heart goes out to you :) Richie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 02:26:48 -0500 From: Joshua Rasiel To: email_address_removed Subject: that's so cool! Message-ID: >You know where the NBC gong came from? It was originally owned by the >General Electric Company, so the notes that they played were: GEC I checked it out and it works! That piece of trivia is cool on like, 14 different levels. One thing, though: originally owned? Did GE not own nbc as recently as a few years ago, when it was the nightly butt of Dave Letterman's smarm? I seem to recall GE buying nbc about 10 years ago, spawning those jokes. Did they sell the network and buy it back? -- Joshua Rasiel email_address_removed www.j51.com/~mrasiel "Shop Smart. Shop...S-Mart!" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 01:54:56 -0600 (CST) From: Christopher Ptacek To: email_address_removed Subject: Just playin' clean up! Message-ID: > From: Chris Oates > Actually, I do that for a lot of colors. Then again, I'm red/green > colorblind, so I have to rely on relative color sense, as my absolute is > messed up (thanks mom) I just meant that you don't HAVE to do that in order to see something as blue. Your curse (did you know that colorblindness is predominantly a male disorder?) would be analogous to tone deafness. But since you're a keyboardist and not an art snob like Eckie, you're probably functioning just fine in society. And tell your GF to stay out of Skadz' pants! (that's entirely harmless... it just sounds mean if you weren't there :) > From: Jens Johansson > Subject: Re: Argh! You're making my brain bleed! > There's an interesting issue regarding perception at the bottom of this, > but it's already extremely off topic.. (I'd recommend Dennett's > "Conscioussness Explained" or many of Oliver Sacks' great books...) I'm gonna hit Amazon.com after this. :) > > I suppose my cynicism may have something to do with the fact that I'm > > still waiting for the names of those two German composers who wrote music > > with 12th notes. > > . what!? The person that was addressed to started a similar annoying thread about the existence of 12th notes. She claimed that two German composers "who will remain nameless" composed music that utilized the enigmatic "12th note." Several jammers and I wasted great amounts of stress and time debunking this concept (which is, to me, a moral imperative... I can't stand letting aberrations of that magnitude gain credibility! That and I'm a goofball who likes to argue...) > True if it concerns heat damage that renders it unplayable, false > otherwise. That's what I thought. > I find perfect pitch overrated, relative pitch invaluable. But then I You're in a better position than I to know, but I've already drawn similar conclusions. It would be mighty convenient, but in the end, the musical ideas are in your head whether you can name each element or not. Andy DeLuca, while he's one of my best friends, (and an amazing bassist, guaranteed to scare the HELL out of a lot of you folks) doesn't currently write any music. He hates what he writes so much that he hasn't written a thing in a couple years (outside of basslines for the projects he has going). There's more to the game than technique, speed, theory, or special abilities like perfect pitch. That's a common misconception with so many of us that we sometimes forget that the empyreal element that is so hard to capture, and that seperates the dull from the inspired is SOUL. Wow. I'm getting deep. Someone stop me! > can't claim to have perfect pitch, at the most a good guess now and > then! :) My brother does -- mainly plays the drums, a pitchless > instrument -- ouch, such a waste. ;) Just sinful! :) Well, one day your keyboards will have better drum sounds than his drum set, and then you'll have your revenge! > > I have a friend who sees colors and patterns in an animated state > > in his head when he listens to music. It's dictated by the timbre of the > > instrument and what's being played. Works sort of like a spectrum > > analyzer, and it's always the same kind of pattern each time he hears a > > particular song. THAT is weird. > > They call it 'synaesthesia', there was some discussion about it on the > music-dsp list yesterday.. :) THANK YOU! That is about the first valuable piece of information I've gotten all day! I've got a phone call to make! - Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 03:11:22 EST From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Some quickie album reviews: Apocolyptica Message-ID: >< Apocolyptica - Inquisition Symphony For anybody who isn't familiar with these guys, the name of their first CD says it all: Apocolyptica Plays Metallica By Four Cellos. Yes, Apocolyptica IS four cello players (NO other instruments) who like to play metal music! Unlike their first CD, this one ISN'T all Metallica songs. There is a few Met tunes on here ("For Whom the Bell Tolls", "Nothing Else Matters", "Fade to Black", and "One"!), but there's also a Faith No More tune ("From Out of Nowhere"), two Sepultura songs ("Refuse/Resist" and "Inquisition Symphony"), one Pantera song ("Domination"), and there's also three original songs. The Metallica songs are very well done, as is the FNM song. I'm not too familiar with the Pantera song, and I've never heard any Sepultura - so I'll withold judgement on those tracks. I also think the original songs are pretty good. >< I don't have this one, but I got "Plays Metallica..." for Christmas and I like it a lot. Not the kid on CD I'll listen to constantly, but I'll take it out every once in a while and listen. It's very impressive. Something completely different. Anyone who's interested shouild definitely get it. NP - The Quiet Room: Introspect (I just picked this up tonight and it sounds really good. Like a Dream Theater with Ray Alder on vocals) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 03:13:05 -0600 From: AL To: retaehT maerD Subject: Re:CDs playing wrong / Perfect Pitch Message-ID: Jens & co-jammers wrote: >YES! I swear to God, sometimes I leave a CD playing all night and when I >wake up in the morning, the CD is going WAY too fast. As in, the pitch is >higher, though not so much that I can tell, but the tempos on the CD are >just in general going too fast. I think that as a CD motor goes, it just >keeps going and keeps getting faster as it warms up. I would assume that > I'm not the list scientist. I need Rogerio and Al and a couple > other folks to back me up here... but that can't occur according to my > understanding. The sound quality can arguably be different, but speeding > a cd's spin up or slowing it down will not change the pitch. [Right. Speeding it up or speeding it down in a way it's not supposed to be [sped up or down will simply cause it to misread the data, lose the [tracking and mute the sound. [But, as a matter of fact, during normal play, the rotation speed has to be [adjusted continually.. the pits on the CD are recorded at a constant [tangential velocity. (That's why it spins slower in the beginning of the [CD.. when the head is closer to the center) First off... I'm impressed. What is happening is: The time-base generator, (clock) is crystal oscillator; As the temperature inside the case rises, the crystal deviates from its base frequency slightly. This time base is critical to the proper function of the Digital-to-Analog converter. The end result is: Timing errors. High-end CD player manufacturers have solved this problem by using much higher quality time-base crystals enclosed in a crystal oven. (A small, temperature controlled enclosure within the cabinet) You're NOT going crazy, this is VERY common. -- AL... The Ytse-Progtologist Switchcraft Communications & Microsystems ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Outside of a dog, a book is probably man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 02:29:15 -0700 From: "Korg Ecksthrey" To: Subject: Response to people responding to responses of my responses. Message-ID: <004a01bd182a$152e4990$5b0d84d0@korgx3> >time debunking this concept (which is, to me, a moral imperative... I >can't stand letting aberrations of that magnitude gain credibility! That Hey. Some people believe in God, some people believe in Santa, I believe in 12th notes. Can't we all just get along? 12th notes are wonderful! They lurk around until you go to sleep and then appear and throb within your ears. They're also partially responsible for various instances that occur upon awakening. Such as: that gunk that always forms in the corner of your eye, toejam, morning wood/sickness (dependant on gender), and the fact that everything that roams the planet in animal form has to urinate the moment it rises from its nightly slumber. >and I'm a goofball who likes to argue...) Heya, Mads, we agree on something. :) >I think Korg needs to borrow it after that Campbell's Mystery Soup >encounter. Nope. That incident drove me into rehab. But I don't think they can trace the Nabisco Shredded Wheat that I've been smoking... Great stuff. -- KorgX3 says, "Please pass the hay and gravy, please." "You are what you eat, you fucking cannibal." -- KorgX3 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 05:15:17 EST From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Voices of the jam Message-ID: Just a long-time lurker on this thing- thought I'd chime in briefly (ie :climb on my soapbox) and commend Chris Ptacek on his recent posts regarding the debate of POA and perfect pitch. All right on the money- you rule, bro! It's great to hear an intelligent voice of reason on the jam when so many yell unsubstantiated crap and brag about their perfect pitch while knowing NOTHING about it at all. Perfect pitch is a very human condition. There is nothing superhuman about it. Get over yourselves. If you have perfect pitch- great. Now shut up. Puppies On Acid/ The Mirror is in B not C. Just listen to the damn thing and compare the notes. A chimp could figure it out. Bragging about your perfect pitch and then putting your foot in your mouth on a forum like this would- I hope- make you think twice before the next time you open your mouth. Perfect pitch, like Berklee is NO fucking guarantee...I should know...(right CowGod? Tarkus?) > From: email_address_removed CP> I sincerely hope Skadz saw your last posts, and decides to boot >your ass off the list. Your presence on this planet makes my skin crawl. I second that. Some really pathectic drivel comes from this person. Contributes nothing but self-absorbed crap. Brag about yourself and your "talent" to people who give a sh*t. Chris and Jens wrote CP> I suppose my cynicism may have something to do with the fact that I'm > still waiting for the names of those two German composers who wrote music > with 12th notes. JJ>. what!? I, too am still waiting on the identity of the "anonymous" German composers who, according to AyameYuki back in August or September, insisted that they have written pieces in the now-legendary meter of 5/12. We all remember how cluttered the jam got back then with the 12th note debate. I love a musical debate as much as the next person, but not with someone who claims unsubstantiated hearsay as fact and then backs out. Happy 1999! Dan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 12:02:15 -0500 (EST) From: Mike Pontrelli To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Holiday Shows Message-ID: Despite the fact that I loved the show DT put on at Birch Hill, I feel kinda left out after reading what they performed at the other shows. Hopefully the next time I see them thwey will also do something special. I would love to hear Take Away my Pain live :) mayhaps with time.. mayhaps with time.. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 17:20:52 +0000 From: Keith Lambert To: email_address_removed Subject: HELP PLEASE!; Anyone Tape the Philly Show? Message-ID: Hey guys, I hear the band played a storming version of 'Since I've Been Loving You' at the Philly show on December 27th(?). If anyone out there recorded it, PLEASE get in touch as I'm a big Zep fan who'd love to hear this (Allegedly amazing, piss all over Page & Plant) version. I have tons of Zep/Dream Theater/Zakk Wylde to trade on tape or mini-disc.... Thanks & Cheers.....Keith. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 12:26:44 -0500 From: "Metzger, Mark" To: "'(ytsejam)'" Subject: obviously NO taste Message-ID: someone with obviously NO taste wrote: >> To sum it up in just a few words.... WOW!! What an amazing >> five days!! I had the best time meeting and hanging out with so >> many jammers: Matt, Skadz, D-Man, Bogie, Syrinx (The best >> looking single guys in the place! Whoo-hoo!!!); For Chrissakes, not that it's in my place to comment on this subject but ... WOW !! That list includes some of the worst looking carcasses that I have ever seen in my life. Do they even have men in NYC ?????? Name Withheld. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 18:50:51 +0100 From: CyberDuke To: email_address_removed Subject: AnalogGal's amazing journey Message-ID: > Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 18:55:45 EST > From: email_address_removed > Subject: Whew!! > > Well, after driving all over a good part of the east coast and > putting close to 700 miles on my car, I'm finally rested enough > to post my two cents about the DT holiday shows. > > In all, a great time was had. I shot 10 (yes, 10!!) rolls of > film, collected much hotel memorabilia, That looks like hell of a time! :) Yo girl, how about scanning some of those photos and put on some site, maybe yours!?! And don't forget to inform us! :) -- CyberDuke _______________________________________________________ Home Page http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Gym/3466/ E-mail email_address_removed.mk ICQ# 17392722 _______________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 13:25:55 -0500 From: Phil Carter To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Argh! You're making my brain bleed! (12th notes) Message-ID: Greetings ye 'jamanoids... Madsman remarked: >> I suppose my cynicism may have something to do with the fact that I'm >> still waiting for the names of those two German composers who wrote music >> with 12th notes. and then Jens J. exploded: >. what!? >(I filter this list and may have missed a thing or two) You're probably better off missing this, Jens. A few weeks back there was a big debate raging on the list about "12th notes" and whether such a thing actually exists. Somebody claimed that there were two German composers who used 12th notes widely in their music, but never came up with any names or composition titles. The whole thing was really stupid, let's PLEASE not bring it up again. ta, Phil ========================================================= Phil Carter -- email_address_removed http://www.mindspring.com/~philcarter "Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life." -- Berthold Auerbach ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 17:47:58 -0200 From: Cassiano Barbosa To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Argh! You're making my brain bleed! Message-ID: > > I have a friend who sees colors and patterns in an animated state > > in his head when he listens to music. It's dictated by the timbre of the > > instrument and what's being played. Works sort of like a spectrum > > analyzer, and it's always the same kind of pattern each time he hears a > > particular song. THAT is weird. I think I have that too. Is it a disease? :) For example, in the chorus section of the instrumental version Raise The Knife, for me it's easy to imagine a big bright explosion... Isn't it usual to have visual feelings when you're hearing music?? :-/ > They call it 'synaesthesia', there was some discussion about it on the > music-dsp list yesterday.. :) I'm interested on this. Does anyone know a web site where I can read more about it? > (I think you can induce this type of effect with certain drugs.) I'm not on drugs! :) []'s Cassiano ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 13:58:21 -0600 From: Edward Polzin To: email_address_removed Subject: fates warning, savatage, singles Message-ID: Items for sale on eBay. see them at: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=polzin ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 4537 **************************