YTSEJAM Digest 4299 Today's Topics: 1) Tastes like cheese by email_address_removed 2) Dunno! MEDLEY. by CyberDuke 3) Metropolis bass tabs by email_address_removed 4) Prog cds to trade by email_address_removed 5) An opinion about TTT MP3 with Jordan. by "Jerry Beck" 6) Re: Tastes like cheese by Robert Taylor 7) Shadow Gallery - Lyrical Interpretations by Joe Kruger 8) Shadow Gallery - Initial Impressions by Joe Kruger 9) discoveries by "Alex O'Connell" 10) metrobass by "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mats_Rydstr=F6m?=" 11) lines in the sand by Dave M Klint ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 18:49:54 EDT From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Tastes like cheese Message-ID: john jens: > i'm sorry. i have > taste. i can't get past the lyircs and vocals. > > anyone wanna buy/trade my Savatage Dead Winter Dead? You say you have taste and then in almost the same breath offer up your Savatage DWD CD for sale. hmm I do agree that it is kinda CHEESY for someone to listen to something 10x and hear cheese and then another 10x and hear beautiful music. Music shouldn't be that difficult to listen to. I've always appreciated Shadow Gallery, but do find that the melody lines and lyrics are a bit cheesy. The vocalist has a good voice, it just seems that he tends to exaggerate words and syllables to the EXTREME. As far as Tyranny goes, the topic may have changed from fantasy to a modern topic but the melody lines are very similar to Carved in Stone. Taste is an individual thing, but when I play Shadow Gallery to someone for the first time I shouldn't have to ALWAYS respond "I know the vocals are dopey, but listen to the music". That seems to be a constant with EVERYONE, so it has gone beyond personal taste into a general consensus. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 00:55:13 +0200 From: CyberDuke To: email_address_removed Subject: Dunno! MEDLEY. Message-ID: > Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 05:16:17 EDT > From: email_address_removed > Subject: DT Live in Tokyo Video > > Well worth searching out. Go for it cos it's very funny in places. Hope the > new live video is as good. Mike Portnoy certainly made a good job of Tokyo > .... > > N What do ya mean "Mike made a good job"? What's concretely his share in it? > Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 13:04:41 +0300 > From: Michael Zachariadis > Subject: Rush R&R Hall of Fame > > Hi there jammers > > I think that if anyone has paid a visit to this link: > http://syrinx.yyz.com/HTML/rushhof.html > should do so. Let's all help Rush get what they deserve, and who knows > maybe some day in the long awaited future DT might get there too. Hooray! That would be the day. Scene: Jamiroquai in his 50s comes out and approaches to the microphone stand: "And now ladies and gentlemen, I wanna welcome to the stage the band that left remarkable impact on today's music scene, who bravely fought the way for the prog music. I present ya, the one and only, ..... Dream Theater!" DT comes out and start "New Millenium"! Bye, see ya, I go off to drop dead! :) > Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 17:45:55 +0200 (CEST) > From: Peter Geerts > Subject: Eternity X and other X'es > > Rogerio Brito wrote: > > > But one thing caught my attention: why > > are there so many bands obsessed to have X in their names? > > You know, Racer X, Symphony X, Eternity X, King's X and a > > lot of other XXX's you may thing of... :-) > > Hey don't forget Brand X... Phil Collins' acid-jazz hobbyband...They > started all this X-thing way back in the seventies:-) > > Cheers > Zaphod Way to go Zaphod!!!! Wooho, another jammer who knows Brand X. I tried emphasising them but no result! :) > Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 14:06:59 EDT > From: Joe Marshaleck > Subject: bass solo- metropolis > > listen, > I am a bass player, and i was wondering how john myung does his solo > on metropolis. i cannot figure it out. > joe It's more a trick than an awesome playing I think! He does great tapping, that's for sure. Try listening the solo with isolating those kicks of the other instruments and I think you'll find out it's not that hard. Nope, I'm not a bassist (kinda lousy guitarist maybe) and I can't play it. > Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 17:00:43 -0400 > From: "Christopher J. Cerminara" > Subject: Recording real audio > > Does anyone out there know how to go about capturing real audio on disk. > Live concerts.com have two fo my favorite 80s matal bands, Slaughter anf > Firehouse, playing on Wednesday night, and I'd like to hang on to it. If > anyone has any info, please let me know. Thanks. > > Chris I guess right-click the link and SAVE AS... Phew! No, no, it's OK everyone, it was my pleasure enlighening you! ;-) Yours, CyberDuke NP: The Cure - Disintegration ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:55:15 -0400 From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Metropolis bass tabs Message-ID: Whoever asked for the tabs for "Metropolis" bass solo - try this URL: http://users.skynet.be/JohnPetrucci/webpage8.html?10,31 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:59:09 EDT From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Prog cds to trade Message-ID: This is a list of cds I'm looking to trade/sell. I'd prefer to trade, so let me know what you have. Email me privately. Artension-Phoenix Rising, Into The Eye of the Storm George Bellas -Turn of the Millenium Jens Johansson -Fission Anders/Jens Johansson/Alan Holdsworth-Heavy Machinery Scott Henderson/Victor Wooten/Steve Smith-Vital Tech Tones Mastermind-III Thought Industry-Black Umbrella John West-Mind Journey Tempest-Turn of the Wheel, The Gravel Work Virgin Steele-Noble Savage, Marriage of Heaven + Hell pt. 2 Crisis-deathshead extermination Working Man-Rush Tribute John Norum-Face it Live '97 Glenn Hughes-Addiction Thanks, -Kyle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 02:03:37 +0200 From: "Jerry Beck" To: Subject: An opinion about TTT MP3 with Jordan. Message-ID: <000b01bde9aa$59921560$df5d5ec3@master> Hi jammers, after following the jams for quite a while now I feel ready to dig in my opinion about the MP3 with Jordan. Sorry, I'm so late with my opinion, but maybe somebody agrees... As in the booklet of LTE I agree with Mike that "Jordan is a complete virtuoso", but in the "end Solo" of the TTT MP3, I seem to recognize that he -like many others- tries to play the keyboards sound like a guitar. What's wrong about this? Absolutely nothing, but I think that (despite his virtuosity) he don't seem to manage to come "to the point!" like (here I go) Jens Johannsson (I really like what you do, man) or John with the guitar itself. Listen to Jens solo in "Rising Force" from Yngwie and I hope you hear the difference and know what I mean. It sounds to me that he didn't know where he wanted to go in his scales while he is playing and that is an ability that Jens can do best (for my ears). So that's what I miss here. He's playing around in his scales absolutely well, but I think that his playing of going around and "don't hit nowhere" makes the solo here a bit "empty" and too "round" or "hang-in-the-air" for me. That the song sounds different from the original is no wonder (beside his more organ-like sound), cause different fingers: different sound. Somebody said "we know who makes DT sound like DT" and I absolutely agree with that. In my opinion, Derek has his own virtuosity style and his own sound and he completes DT with his musical skills like I don't wanna miss any other musician of DT and replaced by someone else. Ok, just an opinion, right? Complaints? Agreements? As I heard that LTE is going to do a second album (and after reading the booklet of the first one) I had a little hope to hear Jens and Billy S. with Mike and John, cause that would be my favorite cast for a project (hi Schnipp). Maybe at another time ???.... Oh, hi Phil, thanx for your explanations for all the Xs in the names; here in Germany we quarrel a bit about if it's called Kings Axe or Kings Cross, now I know where it comes from. Jerry Beck ***There's nothing a month on Hawaii wouldn't cure and if you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything *** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:42:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Taylor To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Tastes like cheese Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Sep 1998 email_address_removed wrote: > Taste is an individual thing, but when I play Shadow Gallery to someone for > the first time I shouldn't have to ALWAYS respond "I know the vocals are > dopey, but listen to the music". That seems to be a constant with EVERYONE, > so it has gone beyond personal taste into a general consensus. I remember that when a friend of mine heard "Carved in Stone" he said it sounded like 80s, but it was good 80s. This is a guy who usually makes fun of my music saying its all 80s just because the only bands he recognizes in my collection are Def Leppard, Poison, etc. Anyway, I love the new Shadow Gallery album. I haven't been anle to get the songs out of my head all week. The instrumental sections are great (IMO) from the solos to the complex prog stuff. And what I like just as much, if not more, are the vocals. I never thought of SG choruses as "cheesy." I call them "big choruses." And I love them! But, it is just a matter of taste, I suppose. Robert Taylor email_address_removed http://www.students.uiuc.edu/~rctaylor ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 21:03:56 -0400 From: Joe Kruger To: email_address_removed Subject: Shadow Gallery - Lyrical Interpretations Message-ID: What follows is a long drawn out soliloquy of my personal interpretation of Tyranny and Carved in Stone. I express some religious views, so if that sort of thing bothers you please stop reading now... This is obviously a concept album. I say obviously because I have always thought of Carved in Stone as a concept album. The concept on it was not as tightly knit or as prominent as the concept on Tyranny. I think that is why the conceptuality of CiS has eluded many listeners. Now, I'm a big believer in the idea of musical subjectivity. I know a lot of people probably disagree with me, especially those anal-retentive, Ayn Rand worshipping, Rush fans who are always in the quest for the "one true meaning" of musical lyrics. I guess I'd say that I believe in a "one true meaning" for every song/album but I think that that meaning is different from person to person. I, for one, am output-driven: the meaning of music to me has always been what I get out of it and not what the artist puts into it. That's not to say that I'm either self-centered or an existentialist, just that music is very personal to me. I really don't care exactly about the message that the artist may be attempting to convey. I am content with my personal interpretations, even if they are "wrong". I don't really like to argue with people about my subjective interpretations. A couple of weeks ago someone asked for a list of Christian progressive metal artists. I omitted Shadow Gallery from my list because I've grown tired of arguing the point over time. Someone did point out my omission. I put Kings X in my list and caught some flack for it. One of their big fans and web page maintainers responded with an absolute and definitive response that they are not. I didn't respond because to me they absolutely, definitely are and to him they absolutely, definitely are not. There was a fundamental separation of musical values between the two of us that no volume of dialogue could bridge. Frankly, enough people have told me that my process of "personalizing" music to myself is odd, so I generally keep it to myself. I'm only including it in this posting to give some background on how I think. Who knows, maybe there are other oddballs like me out there somewhere. If other people want to evaluate music in different ways that is fine with me. I found a system that works for me and I'm happy with it. I know there are people who can't rest until they heard something concrete from the artist themselves about the meaning of a work. To me, these people are hearing music and listening to music and perhaps even analyzing music, but they are really not experiencing music. Anyway, on to Shadow Gallery... Regarding Carved in Stone being a concept album, I first want to say that there are two ways to express conceptual stories in music - First - there's the method of ramming the meaning down the listener's throats to the point where a person would have to criminally obtuse not to grasp it. An example here would be Dream Theater's A Change of Seasons. It is a very unsubtle work. The second method is to obscure the artist's meaning to the point where different people will have strange and bizarre interpretations. Following the previous DT example, I offer their song Lifting Shadows Off A Dream as an example. What is it about?... What does it mean?... Does it matter? For concept albums, I prefer the obfuscation method. In fact, I really like it when an artist makes the listener question whether an album has a concept or not. To me this is the ultimate pinnacle in lyrical expression. Examples here are Arena's The Visitor and Shadow Gallery's Carved in Stone. I'm still working on my interpretation of The Visitor. My interpretation of CiS was very slow in coming also. I always had the impression that it was peppered with religious themes, but there were those confusing songs that I threw me off. There was Cliffhanger which sounded like some futuristic Logan's Run science fiction fantasy thing, Warcry which sounded like a Indian chief decrying the destruction of the land, and Ghostship which sounded like another futuristic sci-fi thing. The whole CD was filled with these vague metaphors that hid the real (to me) meaning of the CD. One day while sitting at work with the CD playing, I was struck with a blindingly powerful revelation. I have no idea where it came from, but the CD struck me a being about a band of survivors fighting to maintain their lives and their faith during the period of times referred to by interpreters of Biblical prophecy as "the tribulation." I listened to the CD at home for the next couple of days measuring the possibility of this interpretation. The more I analyzed it, the clearer it became. Being a religious kind of guy this was a very positive interpretation for me. The fact that the message was so totally hidden from a cursory view yet so clear upon further reflection really impressed me. There is a message on the CD liner that says "Let those who have ears listen-its more than just music" only confirms my thoughts. The amount of lyrical genius required to pull off something like this is just staggering to me. This album was in my top 10 from the first listen and since this discovery has been my favorite album. When I heard the initial reviews for Tyranny, I was excited. The early reviews expressed what others heard as positive aspects about the music that sounded both great and troubling. I really wanted to hear the album. There were a number of copies sold quickly at Powermad 98 back in August. I was about ten minutes late for them. Someone did make me a tape copy and I've been listening to it until I got the CD this week. I am pretty set in my lyrical interpretation of this album now. It came to me rather quickly. I think I've heard previous reviews saying that they thought the album had an "end of millennium/end of world" theme to it. I perceive the album to be a prequel to Carved in Stone. I consider Tyranny to be about the "pre-tribulation rapture", which is a Bible-banger buzzword for the beginning of the end times. This time the theme seems a lot more obvious to me since I know what I'm looking for. There are musical passages that have a very strong connection to the musical passages in Carved in Stone that I think extend beyond merely personal compositional and playing styles into some carefully constructed and well-planned meaning. What is interesting about this whole concept is that I've generally lost interest in the Biblical apocalyptic interpretations of scripture because it just seemed so academic and any conclusion or predictions made by people seem somewhat arbitrary. I really am enjoying the Saviour Machine Legend I & II discs with a similar theme. However the perspective on those works is from the point of view of a saved Christian narrating before it happens. The dark mood of those albums does an excellent job of reflecting the darkness of the topic, but the lyrical presentation on Legend seems sort of sterile and impersonal. While it is billed as a "soundtrack to the end of the world", it sort of misses the impact of future events on the individuals who will experience them. AND, while I realize that it is still an incomplete work, I'm still waiting for some positive message to come out of it. Shadow Gallery addresses the same prophetic material from a completely different perspective that is emotionally and spiritually compelling. They tackle the point of view of the unsaved and unknowing. They do an excellent job reflecting how confusing the end times will be for those who will experience them with no real knowledge of what is happening. While Carved in Stone covered similar themes in a similar manner, Tyranny really does an excellent job of connecting the material through the experiences of one person. The physical and spiritual conflicts faced and addressed by the protagonist of Tyranny draws the listener in extremely well. The music itself is every bit as emotionally moving and powerful as Carved in Stone and both CDs do an excellent job of delivering a very strong message of hope. Again, what is amazing about Tyranny is that the religious aspects are very low-key and could really be totally missed by most listeners. The story lends itself well to multiple interpretations. I'm sure someone will draw parallels between this story and your basic Robert Ludlum secret conspiracy to take over the world type of story. I don't think that this is a watering down of the albums powerful message, but is, rather, a very-well thought out seed of thought. Of course, many people could say that I was just hearing what I wanted (needed?) to hear. To you I say - I agree. I think that should be the goal of every musician - to reach the listener in a personal way. Different music appeals to me in different ways - some visceral, some cerebral, some emotional, and some spiritual. The most powerful of these for me is the spiritual connection. Shadow Gallery has achieved this with me twice now. Joe email_address_removed Check out http://www.mindcage.com/wwwboard/wwwboard.html for great prog metal discussion!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 21:03:50 -0400 From: Joe Kruger To: email_address_removed Subject: Shadow Gallery - Initial Impressions Message-ID: Well, thanks to a friend, I've been listening to this for about two weeks now. I've probably listened all the way thru it at least 30 times now. I finally picked it up on CD this Tuesday and have had a couple of days of reading along with the lyric sheet. As far as an actual review of the CD, I'm not really ready for that just yet. Suffice it to say that if you loved Carved in Stone, you will love Tyranny. If you like Carved in Stone but thought it could be heavier, you might like Tyranny slightly more. If you thought Carved in Stone was pure musical cheese (in a bad way), then you will probably feel the same way about Tyranny. In short, their style has not significantly changed much from Carved in Stone. I think that is a good thing. Here are my basic thoughts - Tyranny is a stunning and powerful masterpiece and will unquestionably be my favorite CD of 1998. Now that I've heard the album, I would have to admit to liking it a great deal. It will certainly be at the top of my list of 1998 releases. I really enjoyed the "formula" or "mix" or "style" of CiS and am pleased that Tyranny bears a very strong resemblance to my ears. I had fears that the guitar heaviness that I'd heard about would result in keyboard lightness. I think that their music demands a lot keyboards and Tyranny has not disappointed me in the slightest in this aspect. The additional characters given separate voices in the Tyranny story were all done extremely well without feeling the least bit like a special guest star type of thing. DC Cooper's performance really shone on this. I'm hoping that he was involved enough with this project to carry some of this experience back to Royal Hunt. The production of Tyranny is amazing. Shadow Gallery has such an incredible attention to the detail demanded by this story. The emotions conveyed by the musical and vocal performances matched the theme perfectly. More thoughts coming immediately, more detailed review coming eventually... Joe email_address_removed Check out http://www.mindcage.com/wwwboard/wwwboard.html for great prog metal discussion!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 20:58:51 -0400 From: "Alex O'Connell" To: email_address_removed Subject: discoveries Message-ID: Yo, ytsefolks, I just had to share this random experience. No one I knows gets it... a couple of my friends and I went to the CD store so my bud could get his dad a birthday present. I have no cash, so buying was out of the question, but out of curiousity I just wandered around to see what they had. To my complete and utter surprise, I found a whole SLEW of King Crimson. As in, on the shelves, not with the used CDs, and with their own label saying "King Crimson." A little CD store, in Williamsburg!!! Nuts. As if that wasn't enough, I also saw a King's X CD. I dunno what the title(s) were, I was too shocked to pay much attention. I thought it was pretty amazing though. Almost makes you start believing in "normal" CD stores again. Almost.... Alex ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 03:08:40 +0200 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mats_Rydstr=F6m?=" To: "The Ytsejam Mailing List" Subject: metrobass Message-ID: <000f01bde9b3$76cff580$8a25ed82@mats> frgbxkl, from seeing him do it a couple of times live and briefly on his video = this is how i do, or try to, do it: it's all two handed tapping using = two left hand fingers and probably three right hand fingers (you might = want to use the billy sheehan method of reinforcing your taps by = pressing the middle finger onto the back of the index finger, the same = goes for ring and pinky). each - represents 32th notes, so it's just 8th = notes, except for the next to last ones. move the pattern to C (8th = fret), D (10th), E (12th) and finish with simple A-D notes... then = double the guitar/keys solo ;-) G --------------14---------1414---- D --------7------------------------14-- A ------------14-------14-------------- E ----7--------------------7----------- rh rh lh lh lh rh lhlhlh when you first play it it's a real aha experience. to get it perfectly = fluid is nearly impossible, listen to some of the live recordings and = you'll hear that it's a struggle even for john. a cooler part imo is scarred, it took forever until i realised it's all = bass. easy on four string as well, play with mxr phaser for a really = cool sound. the left hand pattern is just A-H-A-H... repeated, and the = right hand chords: G --19----19----16----16---- D --19----18----16----14---- the part that takes some practice is the end of the pattern, playd = normal style on the E and A strings, E-F#-A-H, as soon as the H is = plucked you'll have to have your fingers aligned for the next tapping on = the G and D strings on the 19th fret. to get that fluid is the key. these are of course not facts, but imo those are working was to play = those great parts. on a 4 string! lsoad is another thing though ;-) while we're one the subject, the tab of the bass solo in ytse jam i've = seen says that it starts differently from what i think i hear, which is = (in tab) 14-15-17-19-17-19-20-19-... someone with expertise on the = subject. is that transcription totally wrong or am i? is there a perfect = transcription for 4 str? ok, that's all for now! /mats ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 23:56:34 -0400 From: Dave M Klint To: email_address_removed Subject: lines in the sand Message-ID: Since I was destroyed for my remark about the keyboards for FII, I had to listen to the CD to make sure that I wasn't smoking crack at the time. I have to stay with my original analysis, the keyboards in FII aren't as good as I&W. Not because Derek isn't as good as Kevin (hit me in the face...), but because the songs don't call for it. The solo in Burning my Soul is good, but it's the only one on the CD. There's no Metropolis, no UAGM, no songs that call for keyboard liquidation. Anyway, does anyone care to analyze the 12 minute mastery that is "Lines in the Sand"? The FAQ offers some explination, but there are a _lot_ of religious references in the song, "Saviour", "Virgin", "Crosses", "Crown of Thorns", and the title itself is as well. Anyone care to enlighten (pun intended)? -davek ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 4299 **************************