YTSEJAM Digest 3932 Today's Topics: 1) Fixing the broken setlist by Big Swifty 2) nitpickers by "Tedesco, Matthew" 3) My bad & DT/DP/ELP opening setlist by Nicole Stachowicz McWatters 4) Re: Selling Out? by email_address_removed 5) Re: New topic: setlist as openers by email_address_removed 6) Re: Andre Matos by Peter Andersson 7) Mellotrons by email_address_removed 8) Re: TTT on the DP/DT/ELP tour by Adam Pye 9) DT/ELP/DP Setlist by "Ivan Navarro" 10) Tour T-shirts by Nicole Stachowicz McWatters 11) Ft. Worth and SoC by "Jeremy Bower" 12) Re: Andre Matos by Joseph Bissonnette 13) Sebastian Bach as replacement singer? by "Nowik, George" 14) Re: Ft. Worth and SoC by KEZCOM 15) Re: Mellotrons by "Carlos \"?r?g??¥\" Alfaro" 16) Re: Sebastian Bach as replacement singer? by "Carlos \"?r?g??¥\" Alfaro" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:02:58 -0500 From: Big Swifty To: email_address_removed Subject: Fixing the broken setlist Message-ID: Calvin wrote: > 6:00 AND Just Let Me breathe. Don't you think these two songs are very much > alike - as far as vibe? I would definitely say one or the other - but not > both. Personally - I'd choose 6:00 - cuz I heard JLMB twice recently :o) Sort of the same vide, yes, but I always considered 6:00 to be more keyboard driven, as opposed to JLMB, which is all about balls and chunk, guitar style. If it had to be one or the other, I'd pick 6:00 too, but it's not up to me. Dave the misplaced UK jammer wrote: > I also got tickets for Page and Plant who are playing the BJCC Coliseum, > Birmingham, Al. on Monday 1st June - I think it's gonna rock - anyone > else going (I don't know if there are any Alabama jammers). Maybe they'll play the new Kashmir :) I know there's one or two other Alabama 'jammers besides you and me (You or me? You not Me?). Take care, Mark Peters email_address_removed The next Hank the Angry Drunken Dwarf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 11:05:00 -0400 From: "Tedesco, Matthew" To: email_address_removed Subject: nitpickers Message-ID: from Jeff: > I'm really getting tired of these stupid arguments about moshing. >Who cares. Everyone is at the show at their own risk so if you get hurt >that is just too bad. > Oh I almost forgot, has anybody heard of Spell Check? Nobody will >ever take you seriously if you can't even spell. Proofread for crying >out loud! OK, Jeff, you decided to open the can of nitpicking worms, so you get what you ask for. What exactly does crying out loud look like? In that last sentence, after all, you're asking us to proofread for crying out loud, much like someone would proofread for spelling errors. I don't get your meaning at all! =-) Moral of the story: I'd be willing to bet the MLA has their own mailing list. Nobody here is writing for a grade, so as long as the meaning comes across (as yours did), there's no need to argue over technical errors (as yours had). --MATt Oh, and didn't Spell Check open for DT on the European leg of the Awake tour? Were they any good? =-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:23:15 -0500 From: Nicole Stachowicz McWatters To: We have assumed control Subject: My bad & DT/DP/ELP opening setlist Message-ID: I'm sorry. I made a couple of mistakes in my last post (minus the HUGE number of spelling errors. :) First, Nightmare Cinema had performed 3 times in the US PRIOR to the SA show bringing the total to 4: New York, Chicago, LA, and San Antonio. Second, I'm not sure about their playing a piece of Sweet Home Alabama.. but they were playing Skynyrd stuff, so it may have been in there. :) Now, about the DT/DP/ELP opening setlist. First, I agree with whoever said they have to play to the crowd. I wasn't impressed with FOTM because they sounded like grunge/alternative, and I don't like that type of music. From what I've heard, DP and ELP are more hardcore, so DT ought to stay away from the LSoaD/AL stuff. One other thing ppl are forgetting is that they CAN combine songs/shorten songs like they did on this past tour. For example, they never played all of Met, so that cuts 10 min. off everyone's setlists. Just some of MHO. :) What an interesting thread. :) -Nicole/Kirby -- Nicole Stachowicz McWatters : Kirby on irc.dreamt.org Technical Writer and Dream Theater Nut! email_address_removed -- http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Set/5039 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:44:14 -0500 (CDT) From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Selling Out? Message-ID: <> I too was brought on to DT by FII. I&W I happened to get AFTER Awake and after ACOS. I must say, without a doubt, I&W is their best. I'm not saying DT sold out with FII, but there are so many great parts in the many songs of I&W that just make my jaw drop and my mouth smile (PMU, instrumentals in TTT, Metropolis, LtL, Petrucci's solo in UaGM). FII is a much more mature album in a sense that they werent showing off as much (which, depending on how you look at it, is just BS), it does have its great moments (LitS, BMS, HK) as well as the Derek/Petrucci run in JLMB, and lets not forget the great TOT. But admit it, what is a more fun song to listen to? A crazy super prog song like Metropolis or ANY song on FII? I still love FII, but I still await the great Metropolis part 2, if its more insane than part 1, it will hold the title for "Best Progressive Rock/Metal song ever" in my book. Matt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:44:14 -0500 (CDT) From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: New topic: setlist as openers Message-ID: I really think that the booing down of DT wont be bad. Figuring as: 1. Like ELP, DT is prog, play Metropolis and they'll have ELP's fans' jaws on the ground, unless they haven't heard of DT, which I don't think is possible, although there might always be some old fogees there, so..... 2. Like DP, DT is heavy. They did Perfect Strangers, didnt they? So for a select few, I don't think they'll badger DT much (and of course, us Jammers will shut them up real fast if they do ;-) Matt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 18:22:52 +0200 From: Peter Andersson To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Andre Matos Message-ID: >>What's great about Matos Voice? I have only heard Holy Land of Angra. Even >>if the album is good I find Matos a pretty poor singer. Sometimes good, >>sometimes boring, sometimes realy poor, but never excellent. > >Sorry, for a second I thought you were talking about Andre Matos from Angra >there. Obviously confused, right? > >The man has one of the best voices around, easily up there with Keeper-era >Michael Kiske and mid-80s Bruce Dickinson. If you consider him to be a >poor singer, I'd love to hear who you consider to be great. Michael Kiske's alright, but he screams to much, to little dynamics. Bruce is definitly one of my favorites singers. He sounds great on The Number Of The Beast and Piece Of Mind, but nobody can blame him for being the perfect vocalist live, right? I love his singing anyway ... Who's realy great? James LaBrie is. He's got power, dynamics, range - name it! Geoff Tate's another great singer - as James but even more dynamic. He's got a deep voice. Elvis is also a great singer - I'd love to hear him in a metal tune! I also love James Hetfield's singing even if he's not a perfect singer - he's just fantastic to my ears (especially on Master of Puppets). When it comes to Matos you can say he's got dynamics, range. But not power (i.e. suitable voice for HEAVY tunes)! Besides this his vocals are not always tastefully arranged! >>In Make Believe (from Holy Land) during the end minute or so, he even sings >>false. Not just a little, but much! > >I just listened to it and, sure enough, he sounds great there. What does >'false' singing sound like, exactly? Enthrall me with your definition, >please. Sounding bad, basicly. That's the best "exact" definition I can think about! Screaming without power and out of tune. It's mostly his screaming that annoys me. When he sings normaly he's OK. >Sorry, I'm just a little pissed off. I don't want to piss anybody off. This is only my oppinion - not facts (besides the false tunes and lack of power in Matos voice!) :) Regards /Peter Andersson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 11:26:39 -0500 (CDT) From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Mellotrons Message-ID: <> Nope, a mellotron is an old analog keyboard that utilized tape playbacks to get its sound (most common were "brass band", "strings", and "choir"). Most famous for the mellotron sound is early Genesis and King Cirmson. If you really want to hear what a mellotron sounds like, I suggest trying to find a place on the net where you can hear samples of songs. Go to Genesis and choose the album "foxtrot" or "Genesis Live" (they both have the same song). Choose "Watcher of the Skies" the entire opening is totally mellotron, and it it perhaps the best example of its sound. If you want I can send a Realaudio file. Matt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 13:12:01 -0400 From: Adam Pye To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: TTT on the DP/DT/ELP tour Message-ID: Paul "The Man" Cashman ejaculated: >I'm not as certain as some of you that >"TTT" couldn't be pulled off -- I think James is enough of a frontman >that he can tell if the front of an audience is "with them" or not. I >suspect most or all of these shows will be reserved-seating, so the >likelihood of Ytsejammers ruling the front rows is somewhat remote >(but wouldn't it be cool if......:)) --So having the crowd sing along >might be too much to ask. Doesn't mean they couldn't do it, though, >even if (horrors) James has to sing the chorus. Stranger things have >happened. I agree that it could (and maybe should) be pulled off. The thing to do would be to get Mike/JP to sing the "You can feel the waves coming on" type parts and have James sing "Take the TIIIIIIIIIIME." As a vocalist I actually find doing the "TTT" part easier than the lines right before it. It's really difficult to come out of the "If there's a pensive fear" part right into "Life is no more assuring than love" part. You just get no chance for a breather, and James has had problems doing so in the past. He actually used to try to do the entire thing by himself (early in the I&W tour), but there's just no way a single person can pull it off, even if it is LaBrie. Take care all... __________________________________________________ Adam Pye (Alpine/Alpineone/Alpione) alpineone(-at-)mindspring.com ICQ: 9382967 http://www.mindspring.com/~alpineone/tapelist.html ^ Above URL for bootlist w/ setlists __________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 13:11:40 -0400 From: "Ivan Navarro" To: "'YTSEJAM MAILING LIST'" Subject: DT/ELP/DP Setlist Message-ID: <000001bd88c9$88287a00$message_id_removed> Hey everyone, Sorry for this long post, but I've been idling for a long time and just have to speak out. Please let this thread take over the 'new singer' thread. Enough already. The idea of a change in band personnel at this stage of their careers gives me the chills! this tour could be what puts them over the top and thoughts of upsetting the chemistry that exists between them right now are pointless. KJLB RULES - END OF DISCUSSION! Anyway, the set list for this upcoming tour is a great/better discussion. I agree that they'll have about an hour, unfortunately, probably a little less. The very wise man Richie wrote: >>...The whole purpose of opening up for another band is to expose new people to your music. So you have to ask yourself the following questions: 1) Why are fans coming to see the headliner? Answer: They like the kind of music the headliner produces 2) What do we, as an opening band, have in our arsenal that is similar to the type of music the headliner produces? If you're a brand new band with only one album out, then you really don't have that much of a choice. But DT is in the fortunate position to not only have several albums of material to chose from, but several different styles or "moods" to chose from as well. ...<< RIGHT ON!! Richie, I think you've hit the nail right on the head. I also believe that a 'metal' oriented approach to ELP/DP fans is not be the best one. It's all DTs music so there is NO trickery possible with playing songs that can be appreciated by non-metal fans. While it is true that the old geezers (such as myself) can rock, you're not gonna see headbagging, horns in the air (except maybe when DT plays :-)! Or moshing for that matter(don't go there). A good example are my friends that I have introduced to OFB at Vanderbilts and Irving Plaza. They were both huge Rush fans and like Primus and all of the typical prog of the 70's and 80's (ie., YES, Genesis, King Crimson...), I thought for sure they would love DT even though they weren't familiar with their music. Guess what...wrong! It was just too metal and too much for them, I was dumbfounded (sp?)!! Needless to say, although I've known them for over 13 years, I dumped them as friends, will never speak to them again, and will spit on their graves ;-) IMO DT must promote the new album first and foremost while not overwhelming the crowd with balls and chunk for the entire hour. My proposed set list is as follows: 1. Metropolis/LTL/ACOS VIII Medley [This is how they're closing the present tour and will certainly impress the hell out of the ELP fans and rock the house.] - 10 min ** Welcome/Introduce BMS ** 2. BMS (Duh!) - 6 min 3. NM [I still can't figure out why this song wasn't a standard on the present tour, not played at IP-NYC!! I think a radio-edit version (save time) would be very well received by us and the ELP/DP fans. I think those of you who made and posted edits did a great job BTW.] - 8 min 4. LitS [IMO, the best song performed live of the present tour. It's a long song but they gotta go for it, I'm hoping!] - 12 min 5. YNM [OK, I'm prepared to take some heat for this one but it got radio airplay, has a good hook, and rocks, so I'm standing behind it.] - 5 min 6. HY [Gotta take it down eventually and this song, although it may not be one of our favorites, it has a hook, shows versatility, and is more accessible to a wider audience. Personally, I like every DT song, so I'll enjoy the hell out of it.] - 5 min 7. Lie(Edit) [This song was released as a single and has a possibility of being familiar to some of the ELP/DP audience. Definitely a great DT crowd favorite.] - 5 min 8. PMU (Edit) [It's been a great closer in the past and will leave the crowd remembering DT playing a song they are familiar with. I'm making the assumption that the crowd will know PMU and liked it when they heard it on the radio, if they didn't --THEY'RE LOST!!!] - 6 min *#. I think a healthy dose of teasers would go over very well so I think they should sneak them in wherever they can, although I'm pretty close to the hour limit already. A 45 min set would just totally suck! I feel better now. Later, I-Man. **** Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one and most of them stink. **** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 11:14:15 -0500 From: Nicole Stachowicz McWatters To: We have assumed control Subject: Tour T-shirts Message-ID: Did anyone notice on the back of the latest FII T-shirts that they have El Paso listed instead of Lubbock? I understand that the band briefly considered going to El Paso when the Houston venue backed out, but they wound up in Lubbock anyway. I wonder how many other cities are like that? -Nicole/Kirby -- Nicole Stachowicz McWatters : Kirby on irc.dreamt.org Technical Writer and Dream Theater Nut! email_address_removed -- http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Set/5039 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:09:54 PDT From: "Jeremy Bower" To: email_address_removed Subject: Ft. Worth and SoC Message-ID: whew! so many jams to read now after a long weekend! Going back a little, I'd like to shout out to Nicole and hubby, from the Ft. Worth show, not Wade, but JEREMY! =) Anyhoo, the 4hr line wait wasn't bad with other jammers out there, and seeing Derek buy a coffee was cool too. The show was awesome, there's not a better place in the world than front row on John P.'s side! The man is awesome to watch, and it's cooler than hell when he looks at u and then starts to grimace as he plays. Makes ya feel like a little school girl, your heart all a flutter. =) Anyhoo, then, I had the black and gold DT banner that got presented to the crowd b4 Nicole's, and as James said, I did put a hell of a lot of work into it, so I was happy he took it for the world to see. And even better than that, my brother was the first of the audience to play with Mike, that was REALLY cool! Of course, he didn't get the last part right, the "secret knock" code, but then, the second screwed it up after hearing my bro mess it up. =) The only bad part was having to wait forever for the bus, but Mike stopped it and him and James came out, apologized, saying they didn't know we were out there, and signed everyone's stuff. Oh yeah, and Mike said to tell the jam "hey". =) One last thing, Mike Bahr, SoC ROCKS!!!! =) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 12:24:38 -0500 From: Joseph Bissonnette To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Andre Matos Message-ID: > >>What's great about Matos Voice? I have only heard Holy Land of Angra. Even >>if the album is good I find Matos a pretty poor singer. Sometimes good, >>sometimes boring, sometimes realy poor, but never excellent. > >Sorry, for a second I thought you were talking about Andre Matos from Angra >there. Obviously confused, right? > I'm also having a little trouble seeing why Matos is held in such high regard. He's just so whiny. Don't you ever get the urge to give him a good boot to the head? Like at the end of Carry On where he sings "fiiiii-EEEE-iiiind". That just makes me cringe. >The man has one of the best voices around, easily up there with Keeper-era >Michael Kiske and mid-80s Bruce Dickinson. If you consider him to be a >poor singer, I'd love to hear who you consider to be great. Geoff Tate. Range, power, emotion, and that awesome haunting tone. There is none higher. Joe ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:32:46 -0800 From: "Nowik, George" To: "'email_address_removed'" Subject: Sebastian Bach as replacement singer? Message-ID: for those of you who think that Sebastian Bach would make a wonderful replacement singer for James LaBrie if it ever came to that, i highly recommend listening to SB's version of Natural Science on the "Working Man" Rush tribute cd. i respect vocal talent, but i think that by the fourth orgasm, er, vocal peak, his voice that it would wear a little thin on my nerves. there are obviously many possible selections, but trying to picture someone filling the shoes of LaBrie's potent and powerful voice escapes me right now... -= norg =- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 13:41:56 EDT From: KEZCOM To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Ft. Worth and SoC Message-ID: In a message dated 98-05-26 13:29:04 EDT, you write: << One last thing, Mike Bahr, SoC ROCKS!!!! =) >> Really? Who would know? What, did you meet up with Mr. Bahr personally and threaten him? Yea, I know, old thread, but the next album will be out before some of us see our SoC. Just venting, Kez ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 13:46:11 -0400 From: "Carlos \"?r?g??¥\" Alfaro" To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Mellotrons Message-ID: email_address_removed wrote: > < how does it sound? Is it the sound DS uses in the beginning of LITS?>> > In the making of FII cd theres a mellotron sample.. if anyone wants it.. email me and ill make a wav for you -The Next John Petrucci :) In the stream of consciousness There is a river crying Living comes much easier Once we admit , We're dying. Dream Theater: Lines in the Sand http://premium.caribe.net/~calfaro Tech Support Rep : Caribbean Internet Service mailto:email_address_removed mailto:email_address_removed Universal Internet Number (ICQ) 1254229 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 13:49:24 -0400 From: "Carlos \"?r?g??¥\" Alfaro" To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Sebastian Bach as replacement singer? Message-ID: Nowik, George wrote: > for those of you who think that Sebastian Bach would make a wonderful > replacement singer for James LaBrie if it ever came to that, i highly > recommend listening to SB's version of Natural Science on the "Working > Man" Rush tribute cd. actually he sang on working man and jacob's ladder... natural science was sung by mr devin townsend (kickass version too) -- -The Next John Petrucci :) In the stream of consciousness There is a river crying Living comes much easier Once we admit , We're dying. Dream Theater: Lines in the Sand http://premium.caribe.net/~calfaro Tech Support Rep : Caribbean Internet Service mailto:email_address_removed mailto:email_address_removed Universal Internet Number (ICQ) 1254229 ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 3932 **************************