YTSEJAM Digest 3878 Today's Topics: 1) Rap in general and Poof Daddy in particular by The Working Man 2) Hearing damage by Calvin 6S 3) Re: Klank/Cornerstone by Dan Temmesfeld 4) LTE vs. FII (plus a sell-out) by Michael Karlsson 5) Re: blind by email_address_removed.au (Paul Dyer) 6) Message to Chris Ptacek by AL 7) Re:Derek in Madison by AL 8) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3875 by Haje Jan Kamps 9) Puff Daddy by "Giannotti, Nick" 10) Re: Puff Daddy by graham boyle 11) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3875 by The Digital Man 12) Stuff by NGA 13) Re: Puff Daddy by The Digital Man 14) Philly by email_address_removed 15) album Reviews by Pat Daugherty ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 14:49:09 +0100 From: The Working Man To: "'Multiple recipients of list'" Subject: Rap in general and Poof Daddy in particular Message-ID: <98May11.115320gmt+message_id_removed.se> Well, Guess there has started up a discussion whether Puff Daddy and his fellow rappers are musicians or what they now are. What I have to say, maybe is coloured by my personal musical taste - 'cause I hate rap, I hate the persons behind it, I hate what it stands for, I hate the people who listen to rap (the ones I know, at least), and the "music" disgusts me beyond understanding. The Digital Man a.k.a. Chris Merlo wrote this: > I *never* said that Puff Doggy's "music" is worthless. It entertains a great > many people. I just think it's the highest form of cheating. Right. And I guess THAT's the whole problem with this - people like it. When the stupid youths in my neighbourhood first heard "I'll be missing you", the LOVED it - and they didn't know the original! So, they got to be uneducated musical morons that live in belief that Puffy's ruthless vandalizing of a classic is being innovative! Oh, hell it isn't! I recognized the song at once and my first thought was "What the f--k!? He's just copying!". Let 'em dig it, right - but Puffy's made a freakin' fortune of THAT ONE SINGLE SONG! And it isn't his! Damn it this world's gone wrong! And I didn't weep when I heard that first 2Pac, then Notorius B.I.G. got killed. I lauged for myself and leaned back comfortably in my chair, with a grin on my face. I know it's not right (even they deserved to live) - but that's the way I reacted to it. "2Pac's dead! Yes! Get the criminals to the hell where they belong!" Right. 'nuff said for now. I guess everybody thinks I'm just bullshitting here. Have a great time, fellows (or non-fellows)! -------------------------------- Right now: Favourite song #1: "Echoes" - Pink Floyd Favourite song #2: "Working Man" - Rush Favourite album: "The Wall" - Pink Floyd (Rog Waters may be a general swine, but this he's done good!) -------------------------------- //tHe WoRkInG mAn aka Per Pettersson ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | It seems to me | | I could live my life | | A lot better than I think I am. | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >:-( Kill Trace Elliott!!! )-:< ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 06:24:41 EDT From: Calvin 6S To: email_address_removed Subject: Hearing damage Message-ID: <> That sounds like a very DANGEROUS way to go about protecting your hearing. Yes duration and volume are dangerous - but you forget that SUDDEN bursts of volume can be even more damaging. If you all of the sudden take out the ear plug after finding this nice "resting place", you are really putting your eardrum (and inner ear hairs) at a great risk. Please don't do this. PAY the extra money to go and get FORM fitting ear plugs. My roommate has these and I am thinking of getting some because the reduce db while keeping the harmonic spectrum a little more intact. Sure - they are EXPENSIVE - but its your hearing dammit. Can you put a price on something that brings you so much joy? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 07:18:02 -0400 From: Dan Temmesfeld To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Klank/Cornerstone Message-ID: >Haha, fuckin' A! This is looking to be a good year. Now only >if Klank was scheduled to play.. according to an interview on his page, he wanted to play, but it didn't quite work out this year. this year's c-stone line-up looks good, but i am kinda pissed that GC is playig the same time as living sacrifice and over the rhine. i think i'll hafta watch GC, and then head over to OtR when GC's done...OtR'll probably play for hours- knowing them. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 13:24:09 +0200 From: Michael Karlsson To: email_address_removed Subject: LTE vs. FII (plus a sell-out) Message-ID: Kurt Kober wrote some very good stuff on the jam a few days ago. Or - I think it's good since I agree totally with all of it :) I've never agreed to 100% with any post on the jam before I think. I had the exact same reaction when I first heard LTE : "I wish they had some of this stuff on FII"...but now I don't think so anymore. FII is good as it is, and I still enjoy listening to it all the way through every now and then. LTE is very enjoyable, but it's not as focused and well-made in every possible way as FII. And of course it wasn't intended to be either. About the sell-out debate: I don't think DT sold out at all btw either. What is a sell-out? As long as the music is good, it doesn't matter if it's commercial. And DT isn't even very commercial anyway. I'm REALLY tired of hearing that shit about FII being a sell-out. REALLY TIRED!!! The Beatles were total sell-outs in many ways, since they really tried to become/later stay popular, but the quality of their work sure didn't suffer at all. As I've said before: Anna Lee is one of my favourite DT songs. It's commercial - but it's brilliant. I will be disappointed if there are no songs like that on the next DT-album. You can quote me on that :) Michael Karlsson Kurt Kober wrote: >(Apologies for the length of this post, I hope it's not dripping with HTML >tags this time.) > >Listening to Liquid Tension Experiment for the first time was a much better >experience for me than the first time I played Falling Into Infinity. I was >blown away by the speed and mind-numbing chops of "Paradigm Shift," and then >it just didn't stop, which blew me away even more. > >And I do remember thinking at the time that THIS is what I'd wanted to hear >when I put Falling Into Infinity into the CD player so many months before. >And yeah, for a sec, I thought, "if only DT had done this." > >But time has passed, and while listening to LTE for the first time was >amazing, the novelty seems to have worn off. On the other hand, I find >myself liking Falling Into Infinity more each time I listen to it. I >consider it a very solid album, and like one of the other jammers who posted >on this subject, I place it at a somewhat distant second behind Images and >Words. (Just as an aside, do you think DT ever gets tired of hearing how >frikkin great I&W is?) > >I'd go so far as to say some of DT's best stuff ever is right there on >Falling Into Infinity. The songs on FII are more personal, better written, >and more well-produced. Each one is a little finished product, polished and >refined, whereas LTE strikes me as a collection of jam sessions. Brilliant, >nifty-as-hell jam sessions, but not very deep. IMO (ATS). In that regard, I >don't even know if the two albums can be compared fairly. > >And as for Jordan Rudess, yes, he's a great keyboardist, as evinced by LTE. >But hearing that album, I have to say I'm glad Dream Theater went with >Derek. He seems to have a bit more of a distinctive style. Rudess struck me >as having graduated from the Jens Johanssen/Tony Macalpine Institute of >Keyshredding. > >Of course, I could be totally wrong about everything. >KK ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 21:43:44 -0700 From: email_address_removed.au (Paul Dyer) To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: blind Message-ID: By the look of Haje's name he sounds like he is from somewhere else other than the USA! (Possibly Dutch?? - that's a guess) Anyhow we can probably assume that this is an obvious misunderstanding by someone who doesn't speak english as a first language....I mean put yourself in his shoes.....he may not pick up on sarcasm etc..... If he honestly thought that D-man was having a go at Damon then his response was fair.....and probably didn't deserve such a scathing reply... Don't know about the personal details/martial arts experience aka "I'm gonna beat you up" part though.... Just a misunderstanding....the wonders of cross culturalism! :) Cheers Paul D. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 06:57:35 -0500 From: AL To: YTSE Jammers Subject: Message to Chris Ptacek Message-ID: Chris, How will I recognize you? Maybe you could wear a pair of mouse ears! -- See ya, AL... Switchcraft Communications & Microsystems http://www.isd.net/astrosch/index.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. - Red Buttons ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 07:16:02 -0500 From: AL To: YTSE Jammers Subject: Re:Derek in Madison Message-ID: >From: Beyond the Mirror >Subject: Re: Derek in Madison AL wrote... <<Derek's tantrum was not aimed at me. I was adjusting lights when he was >checking out his gear. I had hoped to have the chance to talk to him when >he was done - but after he had gone ballistic over his monitor I chickened >out. By the way, yesterday I talked with two other people who were there >and they remembered the incident pretty much the same way I did. >Note: I'm not claiming that I'm not a dork, just that it wouldn't have had >anything to do with Derek's behavior :-) >Josh Becker Understood. I guess I never seen that side of him. I will admit that I was outside behind the Barrymore, and not in the building. Maybe Derek fell victim to some bad popcorn farts inside and was sooooo refreshed by the clean cheese land air outside, he couldn't help being pleasant. Just a thought... -- See ya, AL... Switchcraft Communications & Microsystems http://www.isd.net/astrosch/index.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. - Red Buttons ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 08:14:21 -0400 From: Haje Jan Kamps To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3875 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 23:57:11 -0400 ]From: The Digital Man >? Well said, D! I am very very proud of you.. And it thought me a new >> dimention of the DT list.. Let's harass people! That sounds like fun. >Wow, you're a stupid fuck, aren't you? Hmm.. That is a rather interresting start... Okay.. Now in one sentence.. Let's analyze.. I stepped on his feet.. I STOMPED on his feet. Which brings another question to my mind.. Who else of y'all did NOT understand that this was some heavy sarcasm? Yea I have been following the thread, and yea I understand you two are close. Of course I couldn't know y'all know each other personally, but heck. That is out of the order. Appology sent to D in private mail. Haje Jan Kamps +---------------------+ | Haje Jan Kamps | +-------------------+---------------------+ | http://home.sol.no/~lrovers/haje/ | +-----------------------------------------+ |I'm through just getting by | |Countless times a friend has told me | |Watch out for the wave | |Now it seems the sea will be my grave | |And still you swim to save me | |Even though the water is much colder now | | | |Dream Theater: Don`t look past me | +-----------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 08:36:12 -0400 From: "Giannotti, Nick" To: "'email_address_removed'" Subject: Puff Daddy Message-ID: <4AA929543BC8D111A4E800600808ACE524B7BA@HAMSXHA2> Chris Ptacek wrote, >Why is it okay for DT to cover tunes and sell a disc of the stuff, >but not okay for Puff Daddy to make his own stuff out of tunes, with >permission from the original artist? Because you guys like DT, and >not rap? That's all I can come up with. If Petrucci released a cd >full of the little covers he does, like Purple Rain and all that >stuff, on a cd, you guys would all be raving about it. Forget >the fact that we'd have Prince fans saying "Who does this Petrucci >guy think he is? He can't write his own tunes... he has to go and >ruin a classic song!" I mean, anyone that says that must be an >ignorant fuck. The difference is that Petrucci would probably have a drummer re-record the drums, a bassist re-record the bass, and a keyboardis re-record the keys. Then he'd have a producer and an engineer in the booth tweaking the knobs. Puff gets one of those vocal-eliminators that radio stations use and then sings over it. Doing a cover is a tribute to a band, IMO. What Puff is doing is raping the song. Nicholas Giannotti JointSTARS Contracts 781-377-6745 / email_address_removed "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 22:47:17 +1000 From: graham boyle To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Puff Daddy Message-ID: Giannotti, Nick wrote: > Doing a cover is a tribute to a band, IMO. What Puff is doing is raping the > song. All rap is, is someone talking over 'someone else's' music. Rap is not music or art, it's just fucking noise and it requires next to no talent to 'compose' and perform this alleged form of music/entertainment. This is not just my opinion, this is a 'fact' Yes I am prejudiced against this, hang me for it if you must yours in noise graham ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 09:25:02 -0400 From: The Digital Man To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3875 Message-ID: > Which brings another question to my mind.. Who else of y'all did NOT > understand that this was some heavy sarcasm? Yea I have been following the > thread, and yea I understand you two are close. Of course I couldn't know > y'all know each other personally, but heck. That is out of the order. Because of the tone of your post, and the lack of smileys, it seemed like you were on a militant disabled-rights campaign, aimed at bringing down The Man for his injustices. I'll defer if anyone thinks I was out of line, but my sarcasm detector's needle didn't even flinch. > Appology sent to D in private mail. And accepted in public. :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough email_address_removed "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates email_address_removed /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The Spirit of Radio" Saturday 2:00pm-4:00pm 90.7 WCWM-FM http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/tsor ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 15:26:00 +0100 From: NGA To: "'email_address_removed'" Subject: Stuff Message-ID: Hi all three new CDs up for review soon when work cools down a bit (software managers who move dates for beta tests forward without consulting the developers will be among the first to be put up against the wall and shot when the revolution comes). Prepare yourselves for the following aural delights: RAGE - XIII STIGMATA - Solum Mente Infirmis THEATRE OF TRAGEDY - Aegis MTV news - it looks like MTV is slowly but surely killing itself here in sunny Germany. Viewing figures published in the weekly 'Der Spiegel' show that even at peak time (6pm to 10pm) only 19,000 couch potatoes watch this wretched channel. Go home and drink! (blatantly stolen from Chris howeveryouspellhisname) stay safe and happy listening Neil Gallop (nga@software-ag.de) Currently playing: Vauxdvihl - To Dimension Logic ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 09:30:37 -0400 From: The Digital Man To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Puff Daddy Message-ID: Graham the Aussie protested: > All rap is, is someone talking over 'someone else's' music. Not all of it. There are rappers (though usually not as succesful as those we've discussed recently) that perform with a real, living, breathing band. And, no, I'm not referring to Korn or Limp Bizkit (although I like those bands, too). I mean traditional rappers, rapping over music performed on traditional instruments. > Rap is not music or art, it's just fucking noise and it > requires next to no talent to 'compose' and perform this > alleged form of music/entertainment. That I disagree with. Now, I would imagine, not being a fan, you've never tried to rap along with a rap album. It ain't easy. Rappers tend to fit a *lot* more words into a measure than rock singers do. It's hard enough to remember all that and do it in rhythm. I can't imagine having to write that much. > This is not just my opinion, this is a 'fact' > > Yes I am prejudiced against this, hang me for it if you must Nah. Who else can get everyone's panties in a bunch as efficiently as you? :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough email_address_removed "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates email_address_removed /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The Spirit of Radio" Saturday 2:00pm-4:00pm 90.7 WCWM-FM http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/tsor ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 09:48:43 EDT From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Philly Message-ID: --- Received from HQ02MEMO.TC6NSMM MCCURDY, SHAWN 05-11-98 09:28 Well, my road trip to Philly on Saturday turned out better than expected. I didn't forget to take the tickets, I didn't wreck my car, I got to meet some other Jammers, oh, and I got to see one killer show!!! I think that I'll just list some of the highlights of the evening instead of writing a book like I did for the Pittsburgh show last November. - First time that I got "frisked" before a concert. Welcome to Philadelphia! - The opening band played their 50 minute concept song. Oh, my mistake, I thought that it was just one long, drawn-out jam to a synth loop :) - Seeing DT on a bigger stage with plenty of room to move around was a treat. They were a little cramped on the stage in Pittsburgh (last Nov.) and it was cool to see JP and JLB moving all over the place. - Being almost right in front of JP for his guitar solo made standing in the rain before the show worth every second of it. He just made it look so effortless. Flight of the Bumblebee just smoked! I don't have to be a guitarist to appreciate his talent. - CIAW w/Drum solo. One of my favorites. Only letdown was not getting to play along with Mike. He headed up to the balcony with his drum and picked someone up there. Sounded good though. I probably would've froze up anyway if he came and put the drum in front of me! - I did get to catch one of Mike's sticks this time! - I wish that I knew that I was going to end up with a backstage pass so that I could have handed Mike the banner that I made him instead of throwing it to him. Oh well, he still got it :) - This was the first time that I got to go backstage, which was definitely cool. JP backed into the coffee pot and got a little wet so he headed out to get changed into something dry. JLB talked to everyone for a while. DS was in to say "Hi" and then disappeared and MP brought Melody and his wife in. Mike had to sign stuff one-handed though, because Melody would not leave his other arm :) - Meeting some other Jammers in line and inside was cool too. "Hi" to Dave, Steve, Syrinx, and the Atlanta Jammers Paul and Adam (Did you guys make it home alright?) Definitely a cool evening with new friends and great music!!! See-ya, Shawn ---- 05-11-98 09:28 ---- Sent to ------------------------------------ -> IBMMAIL.I1739025 Advantis IBM Mail Exchange ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 10:03:10 -0400 From: Pat Daugherty To: Dream Theater Mailing List Subject: album Reviews Message-ID: I got a few new cds this past week: Liquid Tension Experiment:LTE-This cd kicks. Got this from cdnow. The cover is strange but the music is great. Kinda weird that it was basically Mike Portnoy's project even though it was basically a jamfest. The storyline by Mike was awesome. Some songs remind me of other songs but I can't yet place what. These things are always put together quickly. Black Light Syndrome was also put together quickly... Yngwie Malmsteen:Facing the Animal-Musically this cd is great-typical Yngwie. I'm not too keen about the lead singer. Maybe he will grow on me but right now I rank him as Yngwie's worst vocalist. I looked throughout the booklet for a lineup listing but there is none. So who is the lead singer and who are the other musicians? I finally watched some of the Fates Warining APSOG video. I just feel it is too overproduced and doesn't have that "live" feel. Still cool to see some concert shots along with video. Too bad they had the lousy big nosed keyboardist instead of the guy from Divine Regale. My wife got these which I listend to briefly: Dave Matthews Band:(whatever the new one is)-I guess DMB is alternative prog if that is a word. This is typical DMB. Alanis (I hate men) adds to a couple of songs. Tori Amos:(whatever the new one is)-Typical Tori but with a band this time around. From looking at the pictures in the liner notes I am once again convinced that she is whacked... NP:Fates Warning-Parallels -- |-------------------------------------------------------------------| | Pat Daugherty Email : email_address_removed | | Web : http://www.abs.net/~patnbeck/pat/pat.html | |===================================================================| | "That is not an option, Mr. Mulder" -- X-Files | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 3878 **************************