YTSEJAM Digest 3851 Today's Topics: 1) Re: How I got into DT by email_address_removed 2) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3850 by email_address_removed 3) Hey everyone by EVO V 4) Erica's Song by Beyond the Mirror 5) the theory thread by The Digital Man 6) the whereabouts of Vito by Ytsejamer1 7) Daytona's sound? Irving Plaza? by Ivan Navarro 8) 12 tone system by Calvin 6S 9) Stepping out of the theory debate/ Where's my ytse? by Calvin 6S 10) Re: Megadeth by "Ernesto Lotitto" 11) irving plaza # by Thrak75 12) Time on My Hands Watches by email_address_removed (Mark Lampert) 13) technicians geek by Fabrice Dray 14) Malmsteen (NDTC) by Marcelo Vanzin 15) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3844 by Ernesto Schnack ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:37:28 -0500 (CDT) From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: How I got into DT Message-ID: Unlike many DT fans that I know, I was into the prog stuff first (which may sound weird coming from a 15-year-old) and it took maybe 2 or 3 listens through Falling Into Infinity (which was my first DT album) to get used to their heaviness (luckily I was also into Rush, so it wasn't THAT hard of an adjustment). Since then, I got Awake and I got A Change of Seasons the day I saw DT at Irving Plaza (the first time around on this tour). Images and Words I got last. Ever since listening to DT, they have replaced Pink Floyd as my favorite band and Petrucci has become my biggest influence and my favorite player (his video improved my playing ten fold). Also the fact that around the same time I got FII, my band got a new drummer, who just happened to have Dream Theater for his favorite band (we all saw the Vanderbuilt show together) so the fact that he liked them led me to listen to them more, I guess. By the way, I might be going to the IP show this friday, any jammers going, look for the youngest person there! Matt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:47:17 -0500 (CDT) From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3850 Message-ID: <> There will be scalpers definitely, or at least people on line that have extras. Matt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:48:56 EDT From: EVO V To: email_address_removed Subject: Hey everyone Message-ID: Hi everybody. My names Andy and I'm new to the list. I think I FINALLY subscribed the right way. I'll just tell you all a lil bit about me. I'm a 15/m in NYC, (Staten Island, AKA The Big Dump, or Brooklyn With Trees). I've been playing guitar for 8 years, my main influences are Steve Vai, John Petrucci, Eric Johnson, Joe Satriani, David Gilmour, Yngwie Malmstein, Micheal Wilton, Chris DeGarmo, John Jorgensen, Jerry Cantrell, and I think thats it. I've been a DT fan for about 2 years or so, starting with I&W. (You guys dont know how many times I've hit the delete button for DT and I&W, I made sure I read the Drinking Game before I wrote this, so I dont make an ass of myself :) So enough about me........ Has there been any talk of a YTSECON3? See ya all lata Andy D The Next Steve Vai ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:53:56 -0500 From: Beyond the Mirror To: "'YJ Digest'" Subject: Erica's Song Message-ID: Erica wrote... To: email_address_removed Subject: the theory thread Message-ID: There was once a time when I didn't know theory, and didn't think I needed to. Who needs to know all that junk as long as you can play the tunes, right? The first time I had an improv jam with someone, I realized the error of this. I was lost, almost useless, as I just sort of tried the best I could to play the root notes and not get lost in the progression. Over the years, I read the guitar magazines, learned all the hard Rush stuff I could, and in the meantime played an assload of cover tunes with various bands. I didn't realize it at the time, but I was learning theory. Fast forward to the winter of '96, Burlington, VT, in Richie "The 80s Guy" Rivera's basement. He had brought this guy Chuck along to play guitar. As he warmed up, I was immediately unimpressed. He had the scales and the speed and stuff, but it just didn't seem like my type of music. Nevertheless, we started to jam. I suggested a simple 12-bar blues jam, but Chuck had other ideas, and ripped into this really cool progression. Ack! Minor chords! Minor intervals! What the hell do I do with *this*? OK, stop, think. I know minor scales. Play it like so... hey, that second chord is just the minor third of the first one... this series of notes fits over that chord, because it's got this, this, and this note in it... Ew, that didn't sound right. Look at Chuck's hands... oh, *that* one's a major chord, so I should be playing from *this* scale... We jammed for about twenty or thirty minutes on that tune, playing with it, changing it, reforming it. Chuck and I were able to respond to each other because we were both speaking a common language. We knew what you "can" and "can't" do, in terms of what sounds right, what resolves nicely. That song even wound up having an impromptu bridge, just because Chuck and I were on the same page, theory-wise. (And, in the meantime, Richie's vast knowledge of "drum theory" or whatever you want to call it allowed the three of us to all build on each other's parts, having never played together before. We were able to sense what was going to happen, and respond accordingly. The dynamics, the tempo, everything seemed to just naturally flow out of us.) Because I knew theory (more than I had realized), and because Chuck knew theory, we were able to communicate musically. The three of us wound up forming the greatest band I've been in. My initial impressions of Chuck and his playing went right out the window after that jam. After that, as we began to write together, we could say shit to each other like "That chord needs a minor 3rd in it," or "That scale fits really nicely over that progression," and know why. Knowing music theory helped us write some awesome tunes, that we may not have written had we not been able to communicate in those terms. Your mileage may vary. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough email_address_removed "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates email_address_removed /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The Spirit of Radio" Saturday 2:00pm-4:00pm 90.7 WCWM-FM http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/tsor ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:13:59 EDT From: Ytsejamer1 To: email_address_removed Subject: the whereabouts of Vito Message-ID: Hello all! Its been awhile since I read a jam from start to finish and i just happen to have caught this little thing about Vito Bratta. First...Vito is a great musician. Next...he is a putz. I met Mike Tramp about a month ago while he was doing a radio promotion tour for his new album, Capricorn. (which is really cool, J. Mellencamp style, but still great quality.) Anyways, my friend and I were talking with mike for about 20 minutes about music and the scene. We asked where the hell Vito was because we all wanted to hear him make some more great music, hopefully with Mike. Mike replied that he asked Vito to play on the Freak of Nature cd's, but Vito declined for no real reason. then Mike again offered a spot to Vito to play on Capricorn, but again Vito was like, "nah...I don't feel like playing ...blah blah blah. Mike called him up about two months ago and asked him to come out to Tahoe where MT lives and write some music. Mike told him that they didn't have to get White Lion back together, but just write some good music, like they used to. Vito said that he was busy doing other stuff and couldn't get away from NY. He also told Mike that he hasn't picked up his guitar for over a month. This pissed Mike off something awful, because Vito has the ability to write songs and play like a motherf*#ker. To quote Mike, "Vito and I are very different people. I like sports and he is totally unathletic. When it comes to music, we speak the same language, but its a personal thing...and it bugs me... If it wasn't for me picking Vito up for band practice, White Lion would have never played a show." So, Vito is just sitting at home, on his ass, living with his mother....my god how the mighty have fallen. As a postscript, Mike is still hoping to again write with Vito and put out an album but he says that Vito has to want it too. Take care, Tony PS...a good white lion webpage (yes there is one!) is www.elvod.co.yu/~milan ------------------------------ Date: 06 May 1998 17:28:29 -0400 From: Ivan Navarro To: email_address_removed Subject: Daytona's sound? Irving Plaza? Message-ID: <00B1D3550D5FD010*/c=US/admd=ATTMAIL/prmd=GOV+NOAA/o=CCNWS/s=Navarro/g=Ivan/@MHS> Just curious for more info from those who were at Daytona's. I read one post that the sound sucked, how? I was at Vanderbilt's in Plainview NY in Jan and was not impressed with the sound. Not that it was bad, just not as good as I had hoped for. I don't think it was the hall so much though (it was a good size room). I felt (literally) that MP's double-bass drums just dominated the mix. I was mostly in the center towards the back of the crowd. I was bummed cause I couldn't really hear JM at all. His fingers were all over the place but as hard as I strained I just couldn't hear'm. Did anyone else feel this way? Other than that, guitar, vocals, and especially drums sounded great. Oh yeah, I think there was a keyboard player too :) I've never been to Irving Plaza, but my friend goes often and says it's a great place for concerts. Other opinions??? I hope so, I want to hear JM this time. Maybe I just need to be there early enough so that I can get crushed up against the stage. On second, thought does it rain up there? ;) I-man ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:39:18 EDT From: Calvin 6S To: email_address_removed Subject: 12 tone system Message-ID: Adam Cook: "The only way you could redifine music would be to build your own musical language consisting of a new non-12 tone system. But why the hell would anybody want to do that?" I believe Steve Vai has a 24 and 16 tone guitar. I know Steve Vai isn't the first, but he is probably the most recognizable to this list. I don't listen to Steve Vai that often, but I realize he is very talented and extremely creative. Sometimes creativity can be very simple. The 7 string guitar. Didn't redefine music. Is a simple idea if you really think about it. It did however redefine a music scene. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:15:01 EDT From: Calvin 6S To: email_address_removed Subject: Stepping out of the theory debate/ Where's my ytse? Message-ID: Well, this thread has been taken up by so many different people that it has become completely distorted. I am starting to see people take quotes so far out of context I start to wonder if they just want to argue or if the original thought has just been completely raped. Original thought - "I'm thinking of going to Berklee/MI? Can someone give me some of their experiences with either?" - actually a paraphrase because I don't save my ytsejams. My response - "I went to MI - this was my experience: Very positive except for one bad experience with a teacher." The thread begins with an all out war on what is music, theory, technique, "feel", etc. I have no problem with the thread except when quotes are taken out of context. My "bad experience at MI" was as simple as: A teacher attacked my style. He didn't attack my knowledge of theory. He didn't attack my technique. He did attack my "feel". I found it extremely useless of the teacher to attack something that shouldn't be attacked. His job was to "grade" me on technique, theory, etc. - NOT my style. If the class were a JAZZ class and I played a "Metal Style" piece, he could have. But it wasn't. As far as the thread - my belief is simple. 1 - Having music in your head is the most important factor in becoming a composer. 2 - Having the technique to play the music in your head is just as important, but not as important. Many composers in the Classical era didn't PLAY their music. 3 - Having knowledge of music theory can expand your understanding of music and therefore expand your understanding of your own music. Music isn't as simple as 1, 2, 3 - but it is a general guidline I follow. I never said technique and music theory were USELESS, except with the disclaimer that you don't have music in your head. I even then put a disclaimer to the disclaimer and said "unless you want to be a non-writing member or just play cover tunes". I then went on to say "I" can't imagine not wanting to play music but not create music. I didn't say it was a fact. So reading the recent posts is infuriating. Make your points - but don't quote me or others incorrectly. And with that, I will try not to respond to this thread anymore because it has become too polluted. I would much rather hear the origin of the thread continued "What have been your experiences with Berklee/MI?" On another note, the threads have brought something to my attention. I am not getting all the YTSEJAMs. It became obvious when posts had quotes from previous posts that I hadn't had the pleasure of reading. I let a couple of digests build up and it confirmed my fear. Hopefully I won't miss the all important Portnoy420 posts. I'll be very upset if I miss the first JPetrucci post. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 15:25:01 PDT From: "Ernesto Lotitto" To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Megadeth Message-ID: >Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 23:59:52 -0500 >From: "James C. Shields" >Subject: Re: Megadeth >>Well Jimmy, I think I get your point now. It seems like Megadeth should pierce the shit out of their faces and play country and >>alternative songs instead of getting better every album... >>DAMN YOU'RE RIGHT!!! > >first off, don't ever call me Jimmy again, or I'll do something >really mean and nasty to your dog (like make it listen to Load/ReLoad >all the way through) I'm sooo sorry! Please, please, please forgive me!!!! It's not my dog's fault! I won't call you Jimmy again!!! >Did I say they should change like metallica did? NO! but putting >out a bunch of the same stuff album after album ain't all that cool, >either. I will admit that I didn't give the whole album a real close >listen, and I did kinda like the song that got played on the radio, >but most of the stuff I heard was real generic. one riff was straigt >from kill 'em all (and don't go off about mustaine being in metallica >all those years ago, everyone knows that already). > now, if megadeth went a different direction (say Fear Factory or >even DT-esque), that would have been really cool. I really dig some >of megadeth's stuff (although you have to admit that Cyclotron was >pretty stupid), but straight-ahead metal isn't much my thing anymore, >especially if it sounds regurgitated like what i heard on Cryptic >Writings. maybe I was a little harsh since it ain't my thang no >more, but I still really get off to kick ass heavy guitar or just >plain cool guitar, and I didn't hear much on Cryptic writings. Yes, I admit that some of their tunes are stupid (actually, metal isn't my thing anymore either, the "heaviest" bands I listen to are Megadeth and DT), but I do believe that Megadeth has changed. It's not like they are pulling their asses out to play the fastest solos and riffs (check out "Rust In Peace"). Instead, their songs are much deeper and with more feeling now. You really should give it a shot and pay more attention to the music, it is worthy. That's all for now Jimmy. ;) Ernesto ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:35:14 EDT From: Thrak75 To: email_address_removed Subject: irving plaza # Message-ID: 777-6800 http://www.irvingplaza.com all this for someone who's not even bothering to go. all the taunting of the folks urging you take a cab, all this silliness. koba, wild. ************************************************************************ david y. kobayashi new york law school email_address_removed "it's hard for me to say what's right when all i wanna do is wrong." -prince ************************************************************************ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:20:23 -0500 From: email_address_removed (Mark Lampert) To: "Ytsejam" Subject: Time on My Hands Watches Message-ID: <01bd7945$8b4b15a0$message_id_removed> Ahoy, Go to http://www.timeonmyhands.com/ and check out the watches! There are wristwatches with faces from Rush, Megadeth, Faith No More and a several others that you can order. No DT unfortunately, but wouldn't that be cool - a watch with a Majesty symbol on the face? · • Colonel Mustard • · ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 02:02:28 +0200 From: Fabrice Dray To: dream theater Subject: technicians geek Message-ID: <3550FA14.15B5@club-internet.fr> Aren't you fed up of talking of how this one and that one are good because they can play their instruments very well. Lucky for them they can play, that's their job. The main thing people are looking in music are hooks and for that you don't need top be super efficient with your instrument, ask Malcolm Young! Making music for musicians is the stupidest thing ever. Mike Varney started a monster and now it got out of hand with all those great musicians putting out records of their crap when they should get a band together and write real songs. I know a lot of people on this list are or were in music schools, but I guess the most important thing if you want to live from music is to write decent songs people can take pleasure in listening and not analyzing why the guitar player did that note at that particular moment and not another one. If you are considering music as an art, you should also take the entertainment value into consideration. Who can know what a perfect solo is and who should care as long as you enjoy the song it is played on? Do you think Dream Theater could have hope to have some success if they had only reached the musician crowd? There is no wonder why their is only one Joe Satriani enjoying a great deal of success with instrumental records: there are no more room for another one!!! Even Steve Vai doesn't get the success his talent should give him, all that because his albums bore the hell out of people who loved him in Alcatrazz, Roth, Whitesnake (maybe not?)... Zappa knew how to pen a tune even though no-one would argue he was an immense musician. I personnaly will go to see G3 in Paris because Michael schenker will be there with Gary Barden singing, otherwise... Please stop taking music so seriously. Fabrice ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:36:23 -0300 From: Marcelo Vanzin To: email_address_removed Subject: Malmsteen (NDTC) Message-ID: Hi all, I went to the first Y.J.Malmsteen concert here in Sao Paulo yesterday night, and I may have some interesting news for you Malmsteen-maniacs. According to Malmsteen himself (and the rest of the band, they were very concerned on getting that pretty clear), they were recording a live album AND home video yesterday. When (and if) will it see the light of day??? I have no idea. About the show, for those who are interested, it was about 2h15min long, he played LOTS and LOTS of soloes (and that was already starting to get me BORED), lots of songs from Facing the Animal, and the obvious classics: Rising Force, I'll See the Light Tonight, Black Star... The sound was very good, except for the first one or two songs, when the guitar sound was very low. The concert he made here two years ago was far better than this one, although the production in this (obviously because of the recording) was better: lots of firewors, better (and sometimes really annoying :-) ) lighting, better sound... Now it's time to wait: Yes on Friday and, maybe, Pantera on next Tuesday. -- []'s /********************************************\ | Marcelo Vanzin | | email_address_removed | | http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/6308/ | \********************************************/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:19:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Ernesto Schnack To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3844 Message-ID: > He knew that music wasn't a static art form, if that's what you mean. The > above doesn't entirely make sense to me. Schoenberg was something of a > musical revolutionary... well, yeah, basically he came up with that system, because he was following the set trend of western music to evolve further. So he did something revolutionary by being conservative... > We know it's an art form...and, perhaps, the most abstract of all art > forms. We know it's a medium through which people convey cognitive and > emotive material. We know it from a sonic sense and, anthropologically and > sociologically, we know quite a bit about the roles it plays. Of course, > there's a mystery to music precisely because of its abstractness. But that > doesn't mean that we don't "know" what it is. We SURE know quite a lot > about what it's for. Really? We have a lot of theories, but nothing has been proved. How and why did music come about in the first place? What is it's purpose in our society? As etntertainment? as an artform? If so, how does the expression of individuals help society as whole? Why is it that certain sounds make us feel certain ways? Is music some sort of connection to some conciosness we're not aware of yet? etc, etc... And there are certain things that we know about sonic > qualities -- a minor second is a dissonant interval, an octave is a > consonant interval. Lydian movement tends to resonate with us differently, > emotionally, than Phrygian movement. A minor second is *more* dissonant than and octave. I'm sure you know the whole 'perfect fifth's used to be considered dissonant' schtick. Loud staccato sounds get our > attention more fully than soft, gradually swelling and receeding sounds. ..depending in what state of mind we're in. There are times when i completely ignore loud music, and the softest little hum will grab my attention. All your talking about here scientific data. Yes of course we know music is organized sound. Of course we know we react differently in different ways, but why is it that every time i listen to ;Lines in the Sand', i get chill down my spine, and i get all pumped up with energy? I don't know. If you do, please tell me, beacuse i've been thinking a lot about this lately. Every single culture in the world has music...but they all do it differently. Yes there are certain common elements, but the way music is viewed differs greatly between cultures. And evry culture sees another culture's differently. I read somewhere that to Iranians (in the 70's, i dont know about now) all western music sounds the same. Disco, rock, classical. It all sounded similar and lacked variety. With all these outlooks, how do we know there is a proper way to go about it? I sometimes get frustrated of music schools because they teach everything to you as if it were the only way. The never tell you "This is just the way Western Europe looked at music, want to a try another way? " ok i have to stop now, i have to study for my art history final... Ernesto _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 3851 **************************