YTSEJAM Digest 3841 Today's Topics: 1) Interesting new album... by Simon Wilkins 2) Re: Kevin Moore by Peter Tatischev 3) hey, if someone else is doing it.... by Deedlit 4) "INTRO" tape help needed by Mike Pontrelli 5) KC's ThrakkAttack. by Chris Groves 6) Re: Theory not important???? by Mauricio Martinez Villarreal 7) MP3s available: Platypus, Vanden Plas by email_address_removed.de (Ties Goebel) 8) dt concerts.... by "Alex O'Connell" 9) Re: hey, if someone else is doing it.... by The Digital Man 10) More new stuff by Simon Wilkins 11) Re: moaning women by Al Balkiewicz 12) Re: The music theory debate rages on by The iban 13) Theory 1 by email_address_removed 14) Theory 2 by email_address_removed ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 08:23:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Simon Wilkins To: email_address_removed Subject: Interesting new album... Message-ID: Hi, Here is an interesting album due out later this year Pat Torpey's (drummer with Mr. Big) solo album "Odd Man Out" will be released in July 25th in Japan. Personnel : Pat Torpey, Lanny Cordola, Chuck Wright, Billy Sheehan, Matt Sorum, Steve Lukather, Billy Duffy, ***Derek Sherinian***, Cameron Stone and Gregg Bissonette. By the way to the jammer who asked if The Forum, London is all ages (Elydian I think)... It is over 18s only I checked out the website of the shop that was selling the 'Lie' single...www.vinyltap.co.uk... They are charging £15 pounds for it! Seems a little excessive dont you think? Has anyone has any dealings with place? Cheers Simon Check out my band Cereal Killer-they're really not that bad _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 19:32:59 +0400 From: Peter Tatischev To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Kevin Moore Message-ID: Alan wrote: > >I always thought of Kevin Moore as a magician in a dungeons & dragons >story, I dont know why but for me he has the look of a magician (of course >this is long hair era) eeeh... I nice band, as everyone says that JM is a cyborg (and I tend to think so as well - human beings can't play that fast and precise), MP is the one from the muppets - cool company, huh? :-) > > >what was derek's musical tuition? I dont think he studied on berklee, did he? I bet he did - they all attended Berklee, onnly James didn't. > >another question...did kevin moore already relased his material? I havent >even heard his demos, how do they sound like? As far as I remember the Chromakey was supposed to be released somewhen in August. If you're interested in hearing the demos goto UaCM and follow the link to Tom Feiner's page with s/clips, it has 2 songs - the Chromakey and On The Page. These songs are not exactly what I expected from Kev, but IMHO they do rock... with one exception - why couldn't he find a vocalist???!!! It's not that his voice is bad, but he's a keyboardist - not a singer!!! cya, Pete ========================================================== The maintainer of the YtseJamCD Project site: http://www.glasnet.ru/~tatisch/Ytze mirror: http://tripod.members.com/~Pete339 Home: http://www.web4free.com/Bass_p IRC: Hammman ICQ:425-8962 =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 11:49:55 -0400 From: Deedlit To: email_address_removed Subject: hey, if someone else is doing it.... Message-ID: I'm going to be in Saratoga Springs, NY most of the summer and all of next semester, so I figured if someone else could ask, so could I.... If there are any people interested in forming a band or just jamming, I'll be here. I play guitar--I'm not like another JP or anything, but I'm a decent enough rhythm player anyway. I prefer pretty heavy stuff, but who knows.... Email me if you're interested! :) Erica ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Erica Bonomi, email_address_removed Deedlit or Deedo on irc.dreamt.org 2112 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.skidmore.edu/~ebonomi/ Check here for the mp3 of the week! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 12:08:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike Pontrelli To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: "INTRO" tape help needed Message-ID: I made a tape for a friend with "LIquid Tension Experiment" taking up all of side 1 and the first 28 min of side 2, leaving me with about 20 min. I want him to REALLY like this tape so that he gets into Dream Theater :) My question is... what song would fit best on the remaining 20 min? I would prefer it would be a DT song but it doesnt have to be. I've kicked around putting Hells Kitchen and LitS, but i think sticking to instrumentals would work best.. Thanks! -Ponte ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 02:15:51 +1000 From: Chris Groves To: email_address_removed Subject: KC's ThrakkAttack. Message-ID: If anyone knows of any sound samples on the internet of King Crimson's new live album ThrakkAttack, or if there's anyone out there who would be so kind as to make me some, please let me know, I'd be eternally grateful. My interest is piqued over this release. Thanks. Seeya! Chris Groves. email_address_removed.au "And you hate me.... because of my lazy eye" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:15:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Mauricio Martinez Villarreal To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Theory not important???? Message-ID: An Yngwie quote: "I know all the music theory there is to know" Yeah right!!! Mauricio ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:19:16 +0200 (MET DST) From: email_address_removed.de (Ties Goebel) To: email_address_removed Subject: MP3s available: Platypus, Vanden Plas Message-ID: Hi! Finally I own a computer that is fast enough to handle MP3s! :-) So here's something for your listening pleasure: Check out MP3s of Platypus' "Willy Brown" and Vanden Plas' "You Fly" at http://www.inf.fu-berlin.de/~goebel/mp3/ Take care, Ties -- The Web Thing - Vanden Plas Internet Site: http://www.inf.fu-berlin.de/~goebel/vp/vp.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 12:31:34 -0400 From: "Alex O'Connell" To: email_address_removed Subject: dt concerts.... Message-ID: Hey all ...I'm gonna make this quick, so listen up, any help would be appreciated. 1) is it completely foolish of me to wait to buy a ticket for the irving plaza show until the night of the show? 2) I REALLY need a ride either to just north of DC or one to Philly...any help here would REALLY be appreciated no end..PLEASE!!! EMAIL ME!!!!! Damon...I hear your pleas, man. Depending on where you are in Jersey, and when I get in...and whether I have a ride myself...I may be able to swing on by and get you to the IP show. BUT I NEED TO GET OUT OF SOUTHERN VA FIRST!!! please, I'm desperate. Alex ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 12:40:55 -0400 From: The Digital Man To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: hey, if someone else is doing it.... Message-ID: Deedlit graced my inbox with: > I'm going to be in Saratoga Springs, NY most of the summer and all of > next semester, so I figured if someone else could ask, so could I.... If Well, allow me to jump on the bandwagon. Dave Bryan and I will be in Williamsburg/Hampton Roads, VA all summer. Dave plays guitar, and I play bass and sing. We know someone who plays keyboards. If we find a drummer (and, hopefully, someone who plays acoustic guitar and sings), we can start a kick-ass prog/metal band. E-mail me if this sounds like you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough email_address_removed "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates email_address_removed /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The Spirit of Radio" Saturday 2:00pm-4:00pm 90.7 WCWM-FM http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/tsor ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 09:39:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Simon Wilkins To: email_address_removed Subject: More new stuff Message-ID: Hi there ..and after LTE there is... > Explorers Club > "Age Of Impact" > (CD) MA-9021-2 > > Song Titles: > Impact 1: Fate Speaks > Impact 2: Fading Fast > Impact 3: No Returning > Impact 4: Time Enough > Impact 5: Last Call > > THE PROGRESSIVE ROCK ALBUM OF THE YEAR! > > An incredible collaboration with today's leading progressive rock > artists > The dream rhythm section includes Terry Bozzio and Billy Sheehan. > Lead vocalists James LaBrie (Dream Theater), D.C. Cooper (Royal Hunt), > Bret Douglas (Cairo), Matt Bradley (Dali's Dilemma) and Trent > Gardner (Magellan). Featured soloists John Petrucci (Dream Theater) > on guitars, Steve Howe (Yes) on acoustic guitars and Derek Sherinian > (Dream Theater) on keyboards. Concept, music, lyrics by Trent Gardner. > > COMING IN JUNE! Cheers Simon Cereal Killer-quite good really, no really, honest guv _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 12:47:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Al Balkiewicz To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: moaning women Message-ID: On Sun, 3 May 1998, Mark Bredius wrote: > > > If you wanna hear some moaning and groaning, get the new > Tori Amos CD (From The Choirgirl Hotel)... Of course, it > wouldn't have been a Tori Amos CD without the words suck > and fucking either. ;-) Got it last Friday and haven't > stopped listening to it... Also get both "Spark" singles > if you can, because those have leftovers... So far, I've > only found disc 1... Does anyone know if disc two is out > already ? > Disc 2 is out, because that's the one I bought instead of Disc 1. Don't remember what's on it completely, bu tI know that two of the songs are "Spark" (duh), and "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas"... -Al ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:28:14 EDT From: The iban To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: The music theory debate rages on Message-ID: In a message dated 98-05-05 09:04:48 EDT, you write: << Rocky states "....had some FORM to it, not just mindless wanking on any note that your finger touches" How do you guys draw these conclusions? I never said I just wank on any note my finger touches. Far from it. I follow what is in my head. How can that be wrong? >> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 12:33:55 +0000 From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Theory 1 Message-ID: > From: Kevin Carmouche > My friend, I hate to jump on a fellow jammer's ass, but almost > everything you said is total idiocy. That's a logical fallacy on your part. Attack the argument, not the opponent. > You say you don't see anybody > wanting to play music they don't write??? Don't tell that to the > many classical or jazz musicians out there(though jazz musicians > create as they play other's songs) There is alot to be said for > being able to take someone else's music and putting your own > interpretation into it. I don't think he said that. Further, when you play jazz, you are supposed to be writing it yourself in a sense. You reinvent the composition with your own themes and motives and styles. You involve your own techniques and melodic concepts. Your comping can completely change the song. Listen to Tribal Tech's Stella by Starlight. It's so reharmonized that the original tune is almost obscured. So that's really not applicable to what you're saying... still, lots of people want nothing more than to play other people's music, so I don't entirely disagree with you. > And, technique and theory are NEVER useless in true MUSIC. Define "True Music" > OH yeah, a band of crap like Prodigy can say that, because they are > not true artists of music, they are entertainers. How do you justify your judgment of art? One of my favorite projects is Orbital's In Sides. That's all trance music. Are you going to say that's not music? How is Prodigy not art? If an artist expresses exactly what he or she intends to express, and isn't limited in this expression by a lack of understanding, lack of vision (in the mental sense), or a lack of ability, how is this any different in rap than it is in prog metal. The views you are espousing are alarmingly elitist. You don't have a very open perspective on music or art, if you stand by what you're saying. > My definition of music(not saying that this is the almighty word of > God) is this: an art form in which different sounds are produced in > a comprehensive blend of melody, harmony, rhythm and form. Is this "music" or "true music"? Further, disestablish my understanding that "entertainers" like Prodigy or Coolio (as a rapper) satisfy ALL of these criteria. By your definition, which I disagree with in the first place, Prodigy is certainly music. Coolio is too. In fact, I can only think of one example that isn't "music" by your definition, and that is what is considered by people much more scholarly than yourself to be "chance music" in which everything falls to chance, and wherein the exact reproduction of a piece of chance music is statistically unlikely. > While style is one thing, technique and > theory is a totally different thing. One cannot appropriately > express his or her style without having the ability to do it. Technique and theory are in no way related. Style may well encompass every aspect of a musician's being. Style CAN NOT be argued in qualitative terms, IMO. Technique absolutely can. Theory is debatable. Ability, however, is more a matter of musical vision and technical prowess than anything else. The only time Theory may become necessary is when one wishes to write a very extensive piece of music. If I wanted to write a sonata, I would personally need more theory training, mainly in the areas of orchestration and harmony. I do not have any need of theory in order to play prog metal. It is often an added bonus for me, but it is not required. > When you look at > great musicians, what do they have in common?? They all KNOW THEORY. > This just drips falsehood. I mean, it's oozing. You're going to saturate the jam with your uninformed and easily falsified opinion. Even those musicians whom most of us look up to for inspiration in Jazz, which I believe to be the most difficult of all western musical forms, by leaps and bounds, often have NO theory knowledge. There are groups of recognized jazz masters who couldn't play you an Eb Phrygian scale from F# to F#. For these masters, jazz was an understanding of the sounds of certain progressions, and the melodies they understood in their heads. Is this any less significant than those who know theory and play exactly the same level of music? How could it be? The ends are the same, the means are then irrelevant. > They use that as the basis of what they are doing. Do we consider > rappers to be great musicians?? hell no, or at least i hope not, > very few of them know much, if anything, about MUSIC, they know how > to entertain, and know how to write words, but that's about it... That's just elitism. There are many rappers who by your definition certainly deserve to be considered great musicians. A lot of people just go off on rap or techno or ambient music as though it's beneath them. This is one instance in which the appropriate argument IS to say "If it's so easy, let's see you do it." It's NOT as easy as you wish it was. There isn't a form of music that exists that can push rap or techno into the realm of obscurity, nor is there one that can make jazz or prog more "musical" or more "respectable" than another. To hold to the beliefs you're offering is PURE elitism. There's just no way around it. If you want to be an elitist, more power to you, but understand that those of us who disagree with you do have some logical criticisms for you, whereas your own criticism so far has been nothing more than putting your opinion above that of others. Go Home and Practice! Chris Ptacek email_address_removed http://www.prognosis.com/madsman ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 12:34:25 +0000 From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Theory 2 Message-ID: > Musicians don't have to be university trained either, but they do > need to know their shit, you mention Vai, Petrucci, and Portnoy, as > musicians who never graduated, that's true, but I'm sure they still > know and respect the idea of music theory. What about those who don't know their shit, but are respected by everyone as master musicians? I bet you YOU even admire some musicians who don't know JACK SHIT. Wouldn't THAT make you a hypocrite! Well, we'll just forget to pursue that thread, since I really have no gripe with you, and no reason to attack you on a personal level. >You say that music came before rules, > well, that may be true, if you're talking about ancient tribal > music, but, Western music as it has become is based around certain > tonal principles that should never be forgotten, Who dictates "should" and "shouldn't" within the confines of art? You impose laughable limitations upon music, which, had they been observed and adhered to, would have prevented music from EVER reaching beyond the church modes and tribal music of individual ethnicities. There would be no odd time signatures. There would never have been orchestras. There would be no *gasp* guitar! Shred wouldn't be dead... it'd be unborn! Oh the horror! One of my favorite counter examples to your proposed rule of music above is Arnold Schoenberg, the early 20th century composer. He developed an alternate system of tonality called Dodecaphony or 12 tone serialism. Within this system, the composer creates a hypothetical rhythmic scheme, and then takes all twelve western tones and arranges them into a tone row, (which, by nature is almost always atonal) without repeating any one note until every other note has been played. He wrote orchestral music in this style, and inspired enumerous composers to venture into realms of atonality. Two favorites of this list who now implement this massive and disturbingly cool concept are Michael Romeo and Ron Thal (who introduced me to the concept of Dodecaphony when I asked "how did you come up with that sick solo line!?"). > and someone who wants to > learn about music needs to learn these principles before thinking > they are any kind of "musician" I've already offered my reasons why I believe this statement is dangerously false You would exterminate half of all the prog rockers, shredders, jazz musicians, classical composers, etc whom you've ever heard. > Sorry for my ramblings, but I get really peeved at the idea that > music should be just some thrown together mess, What about the absence of theory knowledge implies that the product of such a musician's labor would be a "mess"? > that's why I'm into more > progressive metal and jazz, because most of them know what they're > doing, That's why you're an elitist, because you seem to put the music you favor on some kind of higher level than other forms of music. Music as art, is expression. If something is best expressed with a distorted scream over a simple rhythm in 4/4, what makes that any less artistic or musical than something expressed best with a flurry of 16th note triplets over a complex progression with several key changes? I'd contend that each are equally musically viable, and each is equally artistic. Further, art is expression for the artist, to be sure, but what is it to the viewer, listener, experiencer, etc? It's Entertainment. It may be deep and profound, but at some level, it is entertainment. Whether you rap well, or shred well, or compose well, you're an entertainer. > if you want no rules, or think that "anything goes," then go pick up > the latest #1 CD or some other shit that some popular band comes out > with. At what point does popular become a criterion for judging the relevance of a musical form? If DT sold a million copies of FII, would they be less musical? Foo Fighters are selling well. Are they amusical? The ABSOLUTELY have a great grasp of melody and harmony, and I certainly detect rhythm. There are times at which I would definitely listen to Foo Fighters over Metropolis or Giant Steps... and look at me... I'm a guitarist of almost 10 years, studying jazz theory and aspiring to become the best artist and entertainer I can be. > There's some simplicity for you, where the guys think they can > pluck anything that "feels good" And I conclude on this: Never pluck anything that doesn't feel good. :) Go Home and Practice! Chris Ptacek email_address_removed http://www.prognosis.com/madsman ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 3841 **************************