YTSEJAM Digest 3822 Today's Topics: 1) Re: guitarists by The iban 2) Re: Take Away My Guitar by "John E. Martin" 3) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3821 by James Kapherr 4) Kirk by Jon Kretschmer 5) Steve Vai & Co. by Uroborosss 6) Re: Kurt Hamlet by The iban 7) New Swedish Radio Show! by Mats "Rydstr?m" 8) Enough guitar. What about bass? by "Christopher R. Merlo" 9) Re: You Not Me vs. You Or Me by MTeiper 10) Re: Steve Vai & Co. by James Bako 11) Re: Kurt Hamlet by "Brian Hayden" 12) More Guitar, Zappa by "Neil Evans" 13) --==[ N U N O ]==-- by Pat Griffin 14) Music Boulevard - $15 off, TODAY ONLY. by "Syrinx" 15) Re: --==[ N U N O ]==-- by "Christopher R. Merlo" 16) Texas Jammers -- Help Me by Matt Stanich ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:25:51 EDT From: The iban To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: guitarists Message-ID: In a message dated 98-04-30 15:17:37 EDT, you write: << What does anybody think of Kerry King and Jeff Hanneman from Slayer? >> Kerry King Sucks shit on lead guitar, he should stick to rhythm. the other guy used to suck, but atleast when SITA came out he decided to learn a scale and play a solo in key. playing fast means ABSOLUTELY nothing when you don't have ANY idea what you are playing at all, like playing a fast run in Eb when the key is Eminor, and thats what all slayer guitar solos prior to SITA were. Rocky p.s. don't even think of flaming me for this, especially if you are a drummer. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:39:42 -0700 From: "John E. Martin" To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Take Away My Guitar Message-ID: The Doc wrote: >The thing about the demo TAMP is that the guitar texturing just kicks >ass... and they just totally got rid of it on the album version, it's a >shame!! >-The Doc I agree... The demo version of this song has so much drive and feeling in it, I lost hope in it on the studio version. The guitar was strong, the vocals were strong... And then they scratch it and go with a weaker guitar and vocals that sound so pre-rehearsed they lose the feeling... -sp00l ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:44:13 +0100 From: James Kapherr To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3821 Message-ID: GET ME OFF THIS LIST

I HAVE EMAILED YOU 3 TIMES, AND STILL I GET EMAILS. PLEASE REMOVE ME.

Thanks :)

James
------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:02:23 -0700 From: Jon Kretschmer To: email_address_removed Subject: Kirk Message-ID: >From: Chris Bowsman > >>The definitive two words: Kirk Hammet. >>BWAHAHA ; ) >>Jon > >What the fuck is up with dissing Kirk? By all of your reasonings, >because he plays tastefully, he sucks. That really doesn't make any >sense. Im sorry, I dont quite follow you. If I am dissing anything, it would probably be the thread. Just in case you missed it, the thread was on FAST players, nothing else. The players mentioned (Stump, Angelo) are really fast and REALLY clean, for the most part. Hammet plays fast (still much slower than those other guys), but he plays a sloppy fast, and covers it up with wah, whereas when players like Petrucci lay on the gas, you can hear distinctly what they are doing. But that isnt what this is about. I never said that I didnt like Hammet's playing. I love Metallica. I have all their albums (yes, even reload : ) Nowhere in my message did I say that hammet sucked. I dont know where you thought I was saying that, and I am not sure I ever will. And when graham responded, he expressed frustration that the THREAD was being continued, not that he thought I had been crapping on Kirk. >"Oh, no! Kirk Hammett doesn't play as fast as John Petrucci! His >band isn't prog! What a bunch of assholes!" Did I say that? Didnt think so. Not sure who you are quoting here, but it aint me. >I don't really get whats so funny about saying a guy who obviously doesn't play as fast as >many others sucks. Im not laughing at Kirk sucking, because he doesnt. I like what he plays (most of the time). I sarcastically said that Kirk Hammet played as fast as Angelo. That isnt true. Thus the "; )". Back in the day, Metallica was the shit. I loved them, and still do. Nuf said. I suggest you read more carefully, you are inferring way more than I was actually saying. Jon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:21:54 EDT From: Uroborosss To: email_address_removed Subject: Steve Vai & Co. Message-ID: > From: Christopher A Milne > Subject: re: petrucci > > I don't know what you're talking about. I think Petrucci's feel seperates > him from 90% of all the instrumental guitarists out there. Until I heard the improvisational soloing on "Trial of Tears," I couldn't discern any solidified "style" in Petrucci's playing. If you think "Under A Glass Moon" features a solo with serious, unique "style," we have much disagreeing to look forward to. Petrucci is fantastic, and I'm wondering when he's going to start repeating himself like so many guitarists do instead of improving and improving and improving, but I think he's just now "jelling" as a player and getting a recognizeable sound and style of play. > And as for Satriani, i've been listening to instrumental guitar music for at least > 10 years and he has been the one i've liked the least. Every few years I > try and listen to him again thinking it will be better, but no I think he > sounds like he should be playing commercials. Hahaha I have to agree, he really does go for those surfing songs... Joe Satriani is, in my opinion, a great example of an "undefinable" musician starting off his career making weird noises and playing a lot of cool techniques...and being mislabeled as a "virtuoso." Ambiguity doesn't equal virtuosity. "Innovation" would be a better term, but just because something is "unrecognizeable" doesn't make it applicable to several different styles of expression and "virtuosic." Satch has buckets of ideas, but they don't cover many musical styles outside of, well, outside of Silver Surfer guitar. ;) "Surfing With The Alien" was the album that sparked my interest in the guitar and heavily influenced my playing, but yeah...Satch is very blues-pentatonic, you have to be heavily into music (and GUITAR) for any of his melodic sense (pitch-axis!) to appeal to your ears (at list IMHAO). The weird noises were what caught my ear, and after all these years that stuff is still the bulk of what appeals to me about Satch. Musically I still can't get into his chord progressions... > Vai's a hell of a player, but I never got into his solo albums much either. Understandable. > The coolest thing Vai ever did was his solo from Crossroads. The Jerky Boys said it best when they said "Open ya fuckin' ears, jackass!" Define "cool." And try not to make your definition sound like the words "neo" and "classical." > And as far as Masters go...before people get to hung up on how great people like > Vai and Satriani are don't forget there are people like DiMeola, Lucia, Remero, and > countless classical players that could play circles around these guys. So classical players can play circles around these guys? In what sense? By alternate picking really fast? With sweep arpeggios? With the fact that their music sounds like, I don't know, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart? Here's what your assertion looked like to my eyes: "The Green Bay Packers, Dallas Cowboys, and Chicago Bears could play circles around those Phoenix Suns and Boston Celtics." They're all sports teams, just like all those guys you mentioned are all guitarists. But if you want to slam Steve Vai because he can't do Al DiMeola as well as Al DiMeola can, you'd better be prepared to argue like hell. For that matter, anyone who uses words like "Masters" while talking about things like music (or anything that isn't "of the Universe") is treading on thin fuckin' ice. Bests? Ha. Favorites. Bafu Vai ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:30:07 EDT From: The iban To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Kurt Hamlet Message-ID: personally, i used to love kirk's playing, he made me want to play guitar, (steve vai made me want to learn though), kirk's new "style" if you can actually call it his style, while it does seem to have feeling, it's just a bunch of bluesy solos. they sound pretty good, but he is no longer putting his soul into the solos.. before when he used to play his own guitar solos, like "Fade to Black" and some of the songs off "Master of Puppets" they weren't really that bluesy at all, but hell, they WERE kirk hammett. now he is just playing guitar solos that have been recycled over the past 50+ years. I am not going to say he "sucks" because i know some ppl will say that, but i really can't stand that term. i must admit i have used it before, but i try not to.. when someone says that someone sucks, then other ppl say it, and pretty soon the band cant play their own music anymore, they have to play what ppl will say "doesnt suck" or "rules", this is why some of us, probably most of us play music in bands thats not progressive, or atleast not the style we want to play. because some people say it sucks, and all i have to say is, hell, if you don't like the music i play, don't fuckin listen to it, but don't go judgeing my music. i mean, who the hell am i to judge someone else's creativity. this is the main reason i believe metallica sucks now =) Rocky ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:21:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Mats "Rydstr?m" To: email_address_removed Subject: New Swedish Radio Show! Message-ID: Hi there DT-fans, this saturday, May 2nd, 11 AM we're proud to present the first airing of the new progressive music radio show for Stockholm, Sweden. We play the music that you can't hear anywhere else on the air: progressive, symphonic, psychedelic rock, metal, fusion and jazz. Monkey business! This saturday we're featuring a Dream Theater-special and interview together with some nice, obscure music. .............................................................. Mats Rydström - email_address_removed.se - email_address_removed the LORD ROSSE Home Page... http://www.nada.kth.se/~d94-mry .............................................................. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:48:28 -0400 From: "Christopher R. Merlo" To: email_address_removed Subject: Enough guitar. What about bass? Message-ID: I've seen the guitar player thread before. No offense to the guitarists among us - I appreciate how important it is for you to analyze and understand what you like and why. Personally, though, I ain't gettin' anything out of it. So, I'm interested in the opinions of everybody (bassists, other musicians, non-musicians) on what makes a bass player good, and how, if at all, they may be compared. Most of the guitar players I knew growing up really liked Michael Anthony, because they wanted to be the heroes of the band, garnering all the attention and acclaim for themselves, while the other guys played some simple support stuff that no one noticed. That was one of the things that led me to discover other ways of approaching the instrument, and it's one of the reasons I appreciated Rush right away. Ged was out there, doin' it, flying in the face of the "You're just a bassist" tradition. He was (and still is - I say "was" because I'm describing how I felt when I discovered him) musical and melodic. He broke the rules, challenging people to listen. But, most importantly, I realized that I did not have to sit back and play quarter notes when the guitarist in my band wanted to wank. As a result, I realized why a guitar solo can sound so thin if the bass isn't supporting it, and, more importantly, how to fill in the gaps. I'll stop here, because I realize that this post is a classic finals-week avoidance technique (I think I'm going to go home and clean the bathroom :). But I really am interested in what you find good, bad, intriguing, boring, tasteful, wanky, etc about bassists. Discuss. :) Finals suck! -d ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough email_address_removed "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates email_address_removed /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The Spirit of Radio" Saturday 2:00pm-4:00pm 90.7 WCWM-FM http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/tsor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:58:51 EDT From: MTeiper To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: You Not Me vs. You Or Me Message-ID: Hey Jammerz - Steve Zebrowski wrote: > I can't believe how many people actually prefer You or Me to You Not Me. Yup. And I'm one of them. :-) > I will admit that there are some parts of You or Me that I would have > kept, such as: > the synth bass intro Definitely. Much better than the guitar in the regular version. Sets more of a mood here, I guess. (Please bear with me, I am not a musician, so forgive me if my analysis is not very technical sounding.) > the interlude Is the part you're referring to the one near the end with KJLB doing a little moaning over the top of the piano part? If so, I totally agree as well. I can't believe that part got cut from the album version. > I am personally glad they: > changed the words and key of the chorus, and put the break in there Yikes! I think the chord progression of the demo's chorus is MUCH better, although my wife would disagree with me. I love it. Lyrically, I suppose I like the album version better, but neither version's lyrics do a whole lot for me. > shortned the "jam" section cool if you're live, but in the studio it tends to drag Yeah, I suppose. I think I like the album version jam length better too. Seems more concise and less meandering. > eliminated the silly "I need som pencils..." sample at the beginning Actually, I really like that intro. It gives the song additional character. I really dig the way the radio bit blends into the synth. Then Mikey P. rips shit up. I just like the buildup better in the demo than the album. Also, I like the ending radio bit. Very cool. One other part I really dig about the demo is the final chorus with the overdub of "That's alright, I'm okay...." (What's that called.... counterpoint?). I think it builds up the ending of the song into a cool climax. YNM just doesn't have the emotional peaks and valleys that YoM has.... to me, YNM just sounds watered down and boring. I totally respect your opinion, and hey, ANY DT song sure beats most of the shit on the radio nowadays, but I really wish they had kept the original arrangement for the most part (maybe with some minor tweakings) and went with that. I'm curious to hear anyone else's analysis of the 2 trax. BTW, just saw on the Savatage homepage: June 4, Tuxedo Junction, Danbury, CT! Woo-Hoo! I smell ROAD-TRIP!!! :-) Laterz..... Matt T. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:04:33 -0400 From: James Bako To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Steve Vai & Co. Message-ID: Uroborosss wrote: > Until I heard the improvisational soloing on "Trial of Tears," I couldn't I'm sure someone else has mentioned this since FII came out, but when I hear that solo the first thing that comes to mind is Allan Holdsworth's solo during 'In The Dead Of Night'. To me it's eerie how much these two solos resemble each other. James Bako "I'd rather be insulted by you home: email_address_removed Than someone I respect" work: email_address_removed - P. Hamilton (helmet) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 98 17:12:32 -0500 From: "Brian Hayden" To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Kurt Hamlet Message-ID: Responding to the message of from email_address_removed: > soul into the solos.. before when he used to play his own guitar solos, like > "Fade to Black" and some of the songs off "Master of Puppets" they weren't > really that bluesy at all, but hell, they WERE kirk hammett. Somebody can correct if I'm wrong, but what I've gathered over the years from various interviews is that those solos were basically handed to him whole from Burton or Hetfield. -Brian "Some things are expensive because people are passionate about them. Look at guitars. People will pay thousands of dollars for them. But then look at Jolly Ranchers. Nobody is passionate about Jolly Ranchers. Sure, they're good, but nobody's gonna slam a $100 bill down on the counter for 'em. " Coleridge on IRC Web: http://www.tc.umn.edu/~hayd0029 ------------------------------ Date: 30 Apr 98 12:44:19 -0700 From: "Neil Evans" To: email_address_removed Subject: More Guitar, Zappa Message-ID: Nathan, with another EOJ wrote: >I'm not saying that JP ever totally worshipped Zappa or anything, but I think he was definately aware of Zappa's style of playing. Who knows, maybe its just the Vai influence in JP That is probably more likely.. JP sounds a hell of a lot like Vai in the legato-phrasing licks in "Trial of Tears". My guess is that JP is pretty strongly influenced by Vai. Speaking of Vai, the beginning of "I Would Love To" is a WOMAN speaking! Why would Vai write a song which hints at sexual intercourse and have a little BOY say "No I'm very very shy?".. um, don't answer that.. "You know, it's when they look you in the eyes.. and they say.. " JP actually reminds me very much of Vai, since I sort of mentally think of them both as super-disciplined guitarists who have put many hours into practicing a variety of rock guitar techniques. JP describes this in detail in his video (his file cabinet method and different areas of technique), and most are aware of Vai's 10-hour daily guitar routine from an old issue of one of the guitar mags. I think it's very noticeable in their playing that they can do many things REALLY well. I'll contrast this with another master, Satriani. I love Joe's work, but he is clearly not in Vai or Petrucci's league as far as straight picking goes. Most of Satriani's impossible licks are based on legato phrasings. Just an interesting thing I've noticed.. >As a matter of fact, I would definately recommend any somewhat serious guitarist to pick up Shut Up..., its probably got Zappa's best guitar work Cool, I may just do that. I've been thinking about trying out some Zappa, and I'd like to start with the most guitar-centric stuff.. -Neil. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:46:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Pat Griffin To: ThE NuGgeTjAm Subject: --==[ N U N O ]==-- Message-ID: I'm probably late on this one, but I'm going to reply anyway because I don't remember seeing anyone post a correction... > From: Nathan Rood > I still don't understand why Nuno is not usually ranked up there with > these guys. This is spoken with special regards to the intro solo to > 'He-man Woman Hater'. Wrong. :) Read your liner notes, folks. Nuno doesn't even play that intro. I don't have them in front of me, but it says in the liners that the intro was played by one of the Zappas (Deezil?). h t t p : / / w w w . p r o g n o s i s . c o m / g a b b o / | Pat Griffin email_address_removed Reality Squared Design | h t t p : / / w w w . p r o g n o s i s . c o m / g a b b o / ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:07:02 -0400 From: "Syrinx" To: "A Ytse Besides Itself" Subject: Music Boulevard - $15 off, TODAY ONLY. Message-ID: I just found about this, so.. .if you to go http://www.musicblvd.com/gift , you can get ANY CD you want for $15 off, but it expires TODAY. NO MINIMUM ORDER NEEDED. Hell, I got the new Fripp disc for $3.50. :) - mike. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= email_address_removed / email_address_removed erotomania! - http://www.erotomania.org =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:25:48 -0400 From: "Christopher R. Merlo" To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: --==[ N U N O ]==-- Message-ID: Pat Griffin graced my inbox with: > Read your liner notes, folks. Nuno doesn't even play that intro. I > don't have them in front of me, but it says in the liners that the intro > was played by one of the Zappas (Deezil?). Sorry, Pat. The liners say: Flight of the Wounded Bumble Bee -Nuno He-Man Woman Hater Intro/Outro Solos: Dweezil Zappa The liners for that album are just too damn thick. Mine are all sorts of beat up from trying to squeeze under those little booklet-holder-clippy-things. There was a puzzle on Wheel of Fortune today whose solution was "Frequently Asked Questions." Yes, Pat, that is a sign from a higher power. D-Man out. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough email_address_removed "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates email_address_removed /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The Spirit of Radio" Saturday 2:00pm-4:00pm 90.7 WCWM-FM http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/tsor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:46:18 -0400 From: Matt Stanich To: email_address_removed Subject: Texas Jammers -- Help Me Message-ID: Hello all in texas- I need someone in the Dallas area to copy a TV program from PBS for me on May 3. I'll trade you some boots for the effort. I've got a limited DT selection, but LOTS of Rush. Let me know if your interested. Thanks- Matt ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 3822 **************************