YTSEJAM Digest 3539 Today's Topics: 1) Pat Griffin has WAAAAY TOOO much time on his hands, etc... by "Richard D. Urban Jr." 2) Re: FAQ Proposal by "Brandon Vaughn" 3) Re: Need Your Help by Robert Rivers 4) Tr-Rack and ribbons by Chris Oates 5) Re: Just the FAQ by "Brandon Vaughn" 6) WARNING: NEW VIRUS by Matt Stanich 7) Spock's Beard, Yes, CDs for sale by "Neal Brown" 8) DT euro tour? by "Partha S. Mukhopadhyay" 9) re: Gabbo and Viri by "Vincent G. LuPone" 10) Tab Books by "Woolcock" 11) Brian Cox by Richard Warren 12) Re: Just the FAQ by NuGgeTMaN 13) Re: Gabbo and Viri by Eckie 14) More stupidity by Eckie 15) Satch/Atlanta March 19th by "Paul W. Cashman" 16) Re: NOT A BAHR WAR <-- agreed. by Michael Bahr ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 22:52:59 -0600 From: "Richard D. Urban Jr." To: Subject: Pat Griffin has WAAAAY TOOO much time on his hands, etc... Message-ID: <00c201bd31f1$f06e9420$667ed7cf@default> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00BF_01BD31BF.A439AE00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cute, even went so far as making a seperate web page for his little = hoax. Just remember, some people out there aren't as savvy as you might = be, and MIGHT actually screw up their Win95 Registry trying to FIND = this. =20 (And NO, I didn't fall for it, I ALSO have too much time on my hands and = wanted to see IF he had really made a page for the link.) I'm another who would like to see equipment choices and setups of OFB on = the FAQ, as it would help me make some decisions. ------=_NextPart_000_00BF_01BD31BF.A439AE00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Cute, even went so far as making a = seperate web=20 page for his little hoax. Just remember, some people out there = aren't as=20 savvy as you might be, and MIGHT actually screw up their Win95 Registry = trying=20 to FIND this.

(And NO, I didn't fall for it, I = ALSO have too=20 much time on my hands and wanted to see IF he had really made a page for = the=20 link.)

I'm another who would like to see = equipment=20 choices and setups of OFB on the FAQ, as it would help me make some=20 decisions.

------=_NextPart_000_00BF_01BD31BF.A439AE00-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 22:53:58 -0600 From: "Brandon Vaughn" To: Subject: Re: FAQ Proposal Message-ID: <002801bd31f2$1300ad20$2b0a86d0@bvaughn> >I vote we create a FAQ council, of 100 people... and then we can make the >Unabridged, Exhaustive, Concordance of Dream Theater Bullshit. We can >keep track of what Portnoy's crap color is everyday. We will tabulate, and >create, and maintain a higly parallel Oracle database connected to the web, >with large enterprise wide web servers using highly scaleable clustering >machines with large RAID arrays and a huge optical jukebox for backup. We will *****condensed***** > >-The Doc Wow, Doc, what a great idea!!! You hit the nail on the head with that one. I only have two questions: 1) when are you getting started on it, and 2) how exactly are you going to get Portnoy's crap color? Will you ask him to journal it for you, or just examine it yourself daily? He could always FedEx it to you when they are overseas. Since no one seems to be interested in relevant musical items regarding DT, this might be the ticket. Way to go! The MadTabber ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 00:00:16 -0500 From: Robert Rivers To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Need Your Help Message-ID: > > I have a situation that some of you might have experienced and I >would like to know how any of you might deal with it. I'm not going to >give the name of the person involved because I would like to give him a >chance to let me know if there is a problem before I get hostile or >something. About two weeks before Xmas a Jammer posted that he had two >Mike Bahr bootlegs for sale. So I sent him an e-mail I hope his name wasn't Alan Estrada or your bummin. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 21:15:53 -0800 From: Chris Oates To: "Ytsejam (E-mail)" Subject: Tr-Rack and ribbons Message-ID: <01BD31B2.13FE6220@FREYA> Actually, getting the ribbon stuff down isn't that hard conceptually. The ribbon is transmitted via MIDI as a controller change info, all you have to do is get the proper CC info sent to the TR-Rack and you've got your ribbon. Problem: There's no standard Ribbon CC number. Korg uses 16 and 17 as thrir ribbon numbers, while the Roland JP-8000 uses 2 for down and aftertouch for up. Hopefully, with ribbons coming back in style we will see a standard for ribbon controllers. For now you have to use a midi converter box or something to get it to work spiffily, or do clever hacking. (Like notice that Korg uses cc 2 (originally breath controller) as their joystick down, so make the sounds on the TR-Rack respond to that instead of the Korg Ribbon info) ~Chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 23:14:56 -0600 From: "Brandon Vaughn" To: Subject: Re: Just the FAQ Message-ID: <005501bd31f5$016cd4a0$2b0a86d0@bvaughn> >The post was not intended as an attack on your ideas. Frankly, if you're >that attached to those particular items, I say great. I was just trying to >advise caution toward those who would take the ground you want to tread and >push it further. Pat, sorry if I came across as brittle. I was probably more upset with the fact that no musicians on the Jam seemed to think it was a good idea. If I'm the only one, then I agree...who cares what I think. Why waste the energy and resources putting something that detailed into the FAQ. I thought there would be more of an interest in this, but I guess I was wrong. You know about 3 years ago, I feel like there would have been great interest in this. Back then, it seemed like 1/4 to 1/2 the Jam dealt with stuff like this. Guess most of those people aren't on anymore, don't care, or just have other interests now. Same thing with the TAB. I remember posting several times back 6 months ago about the interest in a super web site with guitar, bass, and drum tabs with improved MIDI (for keyboard and practicing) of all DT songs...and I got...oh, all of 4 responses. Guess people aren't that interested in that stuff anymore. That's why I've held off inputting and posting all my WDADU guitar TABs. Why waste the energy? I'll probably create a general prog TAB site, that will contain various TABs from Spock's Beard, to Enchant. So just forget the idea. Nobody's interested in it anyway. I'll just keep collecting that information for my own purposes (I'm really only interested in Petrucci anyway). Thanks, The MadTabber ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 00:27:12 -0500 From: Matt Stanich To: ytsejam Subject: WARNING: NEW VIRUS Message-ID: Hello all- If you happen to recieve a email with the subject "YTSEYAM digest 3539" do !!!NOT!!! open it, if you do, it will exicute a program that will send you straight to HELL. This is NOT a joke, I'm just trying give everyone a warning of this fatal email virus. Josh Brand / Matt Stanich ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 21:38:51 PST From: "Neal Brown" To: email_address_removed Subject: Spock's Beard, Yes, CDs for sale Message-ID: >Recently the Ytsejam has fulfilled Rule #1 regarding all Prog >Discussion Areas: "It may take months or years, but you WILL end up >discussing Yes and their lineup changes." :) *LMAO!* How true. Now, I can probably expect a zillion responses to this but here goes nuthin....I have KTA, but not KTA 2. My take on KTA is thus: the guys still can play, but just not very fast. =) Although the melodies are still as strong as they've ever been, the whole album kinda drags (except for the end of Starship Trooper!). My problem with Yes right now is that they're just playing the old hits...I had a chance to go see em a few months ago in St. Louis, but the tix were 40 bucks...no way, I can just listen to the records. The studio stuff from KTA was more interesting (especially the crossrhythm stuff from That That Is--that is distinctly difficult stuff to do) than the live stuff....now my question for the YesJammers ;) out there...should I bother with KTA2? The general buzz I've heard is that the studio stuff is better, but the live stuff is subpar. Re Spock's Beard....I have Kindness ordered from Laser's Edge right now...I can hardly wait, what with all the praise that's been heaped on it (how can it be the best album of 98 when it's only February?!?) Also, some Jammers voiced their displeasure with the production...I thought the production was pretty good, myself....very clear and crisp.... Btw, I still have couple CDs up for sale... Echolyn--As The World Zappa--Strictly Commercial Voivod--Negatron Genesis--Calling All Stations Stratovarius--Episode I'd sell these to stores, but I'd rather just sell em to Jammers...that way the Man gets no money (I get it all ;) ). Seriously though, particularly with the Echolyn and Strato albums, I'd rather it go to somebody who can actually appreciate the damn things. Email me and we can haggle. Since everybdoy else is doing the "gratuitous CDs" type thing, might as well list some of my faves this week... 1) King Crimson--Great Deceiver ("last one! one to go! here we go!") 2) Miles--In A Silent Way 3) Philharmonie--Nord 4) Weather Report--I Sing The Body Electic 5) Stravinsky's Le Sacre du Printemps (great way to get rid of unwanted guests!) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 00:59:26 -0500 (EST) From: "Partha S. Mukhopadhyay" To: email_address_removed Subject: DT euro tour? Message-ID: was under the impression the band were hitting the states for a 98 tour before doing the europe thing? oh well, i'll be there when they come back, guess i can wait......patience is a virtue and all that good stuff..... luck's been my lady this week, what with a bunch of cds arriving in the mail......and me grabbing a few outta the paper's 'to-be-reviewed' box (all of which i keep, no matter what i end up writing about em........) so far, the early fave is the dregs of the internet disc, which came out late 96 with 12 indie prog bands.....a couple of icky songs here, as on every comp disc, but they're the kind that you can listen to in the flow of the rest of the cd, overall, a very very cool project...... chris buhalis: kenai dreams country/southern rock, guest vocals from the late townes van zandt, is he any relation to the lynyrd skynyrd crew? anyway, a nice kick back and relax kind of disc.....i got a spot in my heart for country, sue me.....but this ain't no garth brooks and dunn country pop, more old school, solo acoustic guitar and vocal style southern rock sounding.... thought industry: songs for insects......man, i'm glad i put it back in for that second spin,because after first listen, I was ready to toss it.....weird shit, but some things caught my attention the second time around.....might grow on me.....but if it doesn't, you'll know about it....i mean, after koba plugged the band yesterday, someone has to be interested, right?? purplefly: s/t .... local (detroit) rock, 1st song reminded me too much of george michael's Faith to enjoy, but after that, they get into some good FUN toe-tappin rock'n'roll......it ain't prog, rather straight rock, some nasty funk/disco (which is really cool, really!) and a coupla song which are good metal cuts...... honeyrods: s/t new band on capricorn records, sweet alterna-pop, there's hope for them, but here, there's just not enough to hold the interest......the singer never quite establishes himself, sounding one one song like the chick from 4 non blondes, later sounding like a weak perry farrell.....on the best cuts, he and his bandmates are doing cool vocal harmonies, like extreme (RIP) used to do...... that's about it.....might bet that no one on here will ever hear of maybe 3/5 of those bands/CDs, but you never know, right? partha fact: the book agent partially responsible for clinton's mess once represented famed OJ Simpson detective Mark Fuhrman.....make of that what you will (hope this topic ain't been banned, i ain't quite up to speed on my jam read lately.....) "see? we did no exit for you....happy?" ray alder ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 22:46:55 -0700 From: "Vincent G. LuPone" To: Ytseham at axe dot com Subject: re: Gabbo and Viri Message-ID: 76RCTA873WI873RBTXKEWG-I-GRFDAWOIRTU098432QV987G6B4 7BYP9Q348VYB;4T9[Q348-HOPE-VB]5T0943UVBQ[349UT0984U YTO8WAYT98Y4WKJBRWQOI-FOR-UV98YH48H8O4W5GHREGH8435H 8W45YUGHAREP9HGOW;TNH-YOUR-TWKIHVP98FDZUGY45WNG98EY 3HG98734WQYTO843HTGO3-SAKE-WQIHG94GYEARIUGQ3IUYT9Q8 DKFJOIGAOIUEBAEREAOIN-THAT-GEARHGERGKJGRUIWRUGB4FYQ IEWUNV86Y0[2984QYU6OI-YOU-REAHTMJ98432QIHKHFTVB98EW 98YTALHE48DF9874WEYR-REALIZE-NC9874EW5DG87BIRCTNFGE 6RCTA873WI873RBTXKEWG-THAT-GRFDAWOIRTU098432QV987G6 87BYP9Q34VYB;4T9[Q348-PAT-VB]5T0943UVBQ[349UT0984UN VYTO8WAYT8Y4WKJBRWQOI-HAS-UV98YH48H8O4W5GHREGH8435H 8W45YUGHAREP9HGOW;TNH-NO-TWKIHVP98FDZUGY45WNG98EY5K 6NBU3HG98734WQ843JHTG-LIFE-O3WQIHG94GYEARIUGQ3IUYT9 JGROI48FOEFWOJF09FEJJ-:)-OR094JGLKJGER812O1209FDJ93 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 16:20:34 +1030 From: "Woolcock" To: "YtseJam Mailing List" Subject: Tab Books Message-ID: Hi 'Jammers, Just got my I&W tab book after waiting at least a month :) Does anyone know if the tab book for FII will be out soon? Keep jammin' ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shane Woolcock - email_address_removed.au WWW - http://rampage.ml.org/sector1/~samah/ "Lifting shadows off a Dream once broken She can turn a drop of water into an ocean" - DT ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 23:53:06 -0600 From: Richard Warren To: email_address_removed Subject: Brian Cox Message-ID: Sorry to waste space on the jam. Brian Cox, if you are reading this please e-mail me concerning my DATs. Thanks, Richard Warren email_address_removed ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 01:02:00 -0500 (EST) From: NuGgeTMaN To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Just the FAQ Message-ID: I actually thought Brandon had some killer ideas for the FAQ especially being a multi-instrument musician...I'd love to have some basic stuff like bands that have toured, and equipment...most of that stuff is easy info to get and includes virtually no band involvment. I do agree with Pat S. about abusing "Power" that Ytsejammers think they have with DT...but there's no reason why we couldn't do a bit of research, and have the info put on the FAQ. Just my $.02 _*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* ^ According to the circle of fifths, and the order of sharps and flats: ^ ^ If the alphabet continued as notes progressed (Using Major Key Sigs) ^ ^ (i.e. A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, etc.) eventually the key of Z Major ^ ^ would have 4 sharps. ^ ^ "Just Lighten up and listen to the Music" -Kevin Moore (inside joke) ^ ^ Eric Moegling: Manager for "Lifting Shadows Off A Ring" ^ ^ and "Progressive Genius" ^ ^ The Dream theater and Progressive Metal WebRings ^ ^ HOMEPAGE - http://www.wezl.org/NuGgeTMaN or http://www.wezl.org/lift ^ ^_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 22:59:14 -0700 From: Eckie To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Gabbo and Viri Message-ID: HAHAHAHA rock on! ~Eckie Again ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 23:20:34 -0700 From: Eckie To: email_address_removed Subject: More stupidity Message-ID: Okay, add my name to the stupid ytsejammer list! Aye...should I even bother saying it? Ah hell, i need to get it out of my system. Bottoms up to yall playin' the drinking game! That was supposed to be private email. Sorry. I pressed the wrong key and sent this virus: > > HAHAHAHA > rock on! > > ~Eckie Again ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 23:00:23 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W. Cashman" To: email_address_removed Subject: Satch/Atlanta March 19th Message-ID: Any other Jammers interested in going? This show will be announced to the general public this coming Friday (I assume tix go on sale Sat. morning), and it'll be at the Roxy Theater. I'm strongly considering going if tickets don't cost the Moon. :) If there's enough interest and I do go, we could gather in a "small, evil Ytse-Bunch" (@ 1997, Chris Ptacek) eithe pre- or post-show. :) Of additional note to Atlanta-area folks is the upcoming record show (presumed to be occurring during mid-Feb). I've missed the last two and am itchin' to get to the next one. Sometimes they've even heard of prog there. :) -- Paul W. Cashman ICQ #4151223 | Better the pride that resides email_address_removed | In a Citizen of the World www.crl.com/~vanyel | Than the pride that divides lyrics by Neil Peart ----------> When a colorful rag is unfurled ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 01:36:54 -0700 From: Michael Bahr To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: NOT A BAHR WAR <-- agreed. Message-ID: email_address_removed wrote: > I do hope you can find the time to read this carefully and respond > to it... that's why I didn't put it on the jam. Since I know you're > reading the jam, though, I will repost this there if I don't get a Can do. I wasn't gonna cc my reply to the Jam, but it's so chock full of info, I guess I might as well. :) > It's cool that you offer him the warnings of potential problems, but > his situation may be unique, and since he's not doing huge volumes, it > seems only logical to let him see how it pans out. For the sort of > client-base he's talking, it seems like this should work out ideally. > Still I appreciate the fact that you would offer the warnings, and I'm I'd just hate to see another VH Merrie Melodies/Marcel Carpe Diem situation come up where someone jumped into something they really didn't have all the prep for. The dudes on the Van Halen list had some people offering a FOUR disc boot for around $30, and it took well over a year and a half for deliveries to even become consistent. They took an absolute bath on production, AND had constant problems with a copyright situation that I never saw a full explanation for. And when Marcel originally offered Carpe, he had system troubles from day one that kept him down and discouraged, and he finally gave up (little did I know at the time that he'd return eventually). I know Eric has been on the Jam for a good while now, after all, you can't help but remember the names, so I really didn't want to see him jump into a fire. :) > This is what I question. I recall this issue coming up before, > Mike, and I remember you saying something to the effect of "If > someone else wants to copy my boots, more power to them." Quotes > there are inappropriate, since those weren't the exact words, but you > get my meaning. I can find the actual post, if you require. Right, more on this below... > Furthermore, weren't you selling copies of boots that you didn't > make? Or do you still? Actually, I stopped doing that (the only one I was doing was Marcel's Carpe Diem, and though I think I forgot to nuke it from my web page, I'm not doing that one for as long as he remains active.) And I won't cross-copy anything by Ryan Whitaker, John DiBello, Neil Elliott, or Russ Sundquist (even though Russ DOES cross-sell me and Ryan). It's not a hard and fast rule or anything, just helpin the other guy so he'll help you a little in return. I don't think we ever truly agreed on it in words, but we've always done it in practice. > You say "And you may or may not wish to copy my CDs for people... > even if I asked you not to, you still could (they're bootlegs after > all)" > Would you ask someone NOT to cd dub a past (long since out of > print) boot of yours? I would have to question why, if that's the > case, because he's not copying liner art and all that... he's doing I wouldn't ask them to stop. Not for something out of print anyway. I might be a bit peeved if they started offering Mosaic or Welcome to the Wasteland so early in their availability cycle, but then again nobody is attempting to do that. But for stuff like Subcon, Cygnus, AD, etc... Eric can pretty much do whatever he wants. After all, I'd do it if I were him. I have to always remember that anything that's technologically possible will likely be done, and that a certain moral flexibility (the same that allows me to do this in the first place) is necessary in order not to stress over this stuff. See, a person like Dante Hicks from the movie Clerks has a way of personalizing events and objects, and in this line of work I look at it from the opposite perspective, that my name is entirely inconsequential to the boot CDs themselves. > he's making things available. I can't imagine why you would want to > put a stop to that, unless you're claiming some sort of "right" to the > cd audio that you originally manufactured (since that's the only part > he'd be copying), or are issuing the request for your own monetary > reasons (both of which I hope are not the case). Oh, none of the above, of course. Ideally, the more widespread my stuff becomes, the more "official" it is viewed as in light of the entire DT bootleg pantheon. I mean, spoken of in the same breath as such masterpieces as Lost in the Sky or Kick Into a Dream. I really don't think any of my stuff is as good as those boots, so it's sort of a long-term lofty goal for me. And until they're getting the kind of circulation those boots are getting, it ain't gonna happen. So as long as everyone knows they can still get it right from the source, and that it's gonna be reasonably close to the original, they're welcome to seek out basic dubs elsewhere if they'd rather keep their budget trim. And just the logistics of trying to collect a royalty... no way. It could never happen. I would neither expect it nor would I be thick-headed enough to ask for it, and besides, I'm not entitled to it by any stretch of logic. I'd almost rather just take the good publicity that their work gives to my creations, and call it even. As for the "professional courtesy" thing, I don't know if you understood it the way I meant it, so here's another take on that. Those of us doing this sort of work know that it is by necessity sort of "shaky" financially... that we have to be really slow, methodical, careful, and count every cent in order to build a production engine, a business model if you will, that is self-sufficient and not in danger of either collapsing under its own weight, or on the other extreme, running out of gas. My work came very close to the former, toward the end of 1997. Striking this balance is really rather difficult even in good times. As a way of "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours", we agree not to cross-pollinate our material, because in yielding the ability to copy their stuff, they have given me more freedom to vend my own stuff without worrying about a price war. We each gain far more than we give up by doing this. It should be made clear just how precarious our positions are even in good earnings cycles, so that you don't get the impression that we're like the gas stations, all gouging an equal amount. :) To be honest, I don't think a single one of us could *afford* to wage a price war. Whoever tried might well go under because of the expense incurred in the attempt. As a result, I think all of us in this chosen field might have skipped a heartbeat when we saw Eric's low price announcement, and it sent me to scrambling mentally to figure out some way, ANY way, to at least come close to that figure, and it wasn't happening. Only when he explained what he was really up to did I realize that it was both unrealistic and unnecessary for me to try and match his price point. > I'm keeping this private, > because I think you understand that it's not an attack, but I don't > think that a certain few of the jammers will see it that way (any time > I mention your name, your disciples start glowing with an eerie > light) It's cool. I have to post to the Jam about a page update anyway, so I might as well cc this. And to my immortal armies of the undead: it's OK, this time there's no cause for alarm. :) -- - Mike Bahr / Prism Records - durnik @ goodnet . com - http://www.goodnet.com/~durnik/ ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 3539 **************************