YTSEJAM Digest 3465 Today's Topics: 1) To Mike Bahr re 1st time, NEW DATES??? by "Richard D. Urban Jr." 2) Regarding Met II and BMS... by Matt Johnston 3) LTL by Jon Kretschmer 4) Playstation, etc by email_address_removed 5) Last Chance: Extra Ticket for Tokyo Show tonite by Eric Persson 6) Birthdays by Andrew Embler 7) Magellan/FG/NKOTB/bafu tag by "Trevor W. Hoit" 8) Re: DT Easter CD by "Vincent G. LuPone" 9) ELP / Yes / DT by Parffit Jim Balsanelli da Silva 10) Re: posts about DT CDs and Prism and stuff. by Michael Bahr 11) re: subtractions by Pat Sullivan 12) Echolyn -Reply by Stefan Rau 13) yes / really wondering... by "Tedesco, Matthew" 14) DTIFC mail and I&W CD by HseJackBlt ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 01:29:54 -0600 From: "Richard D. Urban Jr." To: email_address_removed Subject: To Mike Bahr re 1st time, NEW DATES??? Message-ID: in digest 3433, you said when your first time was. Well I am happy to be one of the ones to play a part in that happening. My first time was in California on Oct. 31st, 92, after a costume party at the Santa Maria Airport. A friend of mine had heard them on a station out of L.A. and had IAW. I was blown away, after two listenings in a row. (to make a long story short, I won't go into why I only remember hearing the first few seconds of Dark Side of The Moon playing, B/C this isn't one of THOSE chats) When I got back to Phoenix, I bugged Dave (as in the mayor) Pratt into playing it when I gave him and Jeff (J. David Holmes) copies of IAW. (My youngest son was once THE Youngest Sex Machine Red Card Holder at 12 seconds out of the chute {I still don't know how anybody beat that time, as we had gotten his card 7 month's before my ex-wife even got pregnant, but if Helmut says so?} any jammers from Phoenix will understand) I also put the word out hot and heavy with KSLX and KDKB, and think they got some air there too. Anyway, just wanted to say "your'e welcome" as sorts. Now to the important stuff since all the late CD's/smoking/KM vs. DS/ crap seems to be over. When can we expect word about new US Tour Dates? I'm now living in PODUNK, Arkansas (don't bother with the maps kids) and am lucky to even HEAR a ROCK station out of Little Rock (without it being drowned out by Waylon or Garth locally), but am going to be in the Chicago area for the next few month's. Has ANYBODY heard about the dates yet??????? MP, are you listening? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:39:36 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Johnston To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Regarding Met II and BMS... Message-ID: Okay, a couple of questions and observations... Question: Since MP said that Met II would be on the next studio album, how soon would you say we should get it? Speculation welcome! ^_^ Observation: Burning my soul. The Burning heart on the back of I&W... connection? ^_^ Question: How old are some of those MP lyrics, if there *is* a connection? I wonder... Here's to Mike's improving poetry (I think that at least some of MP's lyrics on FII were from pre I&W/I&W session days, mainly because I thought ACOS was better lyrically than his other stuff (and The Mirror, too...)... Maybe he was pressed for time...? Improv: I'd looooove to see a 30 minute rendition of Met Part I ^_^ Enough out of me. --Matt --------------------------------------------------------------------- "..." --James LaBrie, "Hell's Kitchen" --------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:48:18 -0800 From: Jon Kretschmer To: email_address_removed Subject: LTL Message-ID: >Look at LTL - one of the coolest songs on I&W - thank god that there were >no 'subtractions' from this. I think you meant to say "Look at LTL - the best DT song ever written." Its all right, I forgive you. Jon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 02:06:27 +0000 From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Playstation, etc Message-ID: Well... this is as off topic as it gets... But from what I was told, the processor alone in the N64 cost more than the unit was being sold for (the processor is probably much cheaper for them now) which is why N64 was predicted to fail... they were already on a major loss with very few games out there. I would assume the playstation system costs less to make, since it works like a cd rom, but I'd bet it's not a significant profit. These companies are making their dough on the games. Enough outta me on that "Apathy is the "suckbird" on cynicism's bloated carcass." - Dennis Miller Chris Ptacek email_address_removed http://www.prognosis.com/madsman Go Home and Practice! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:16:10 +0900 (JST) From: Eric Persson To: email_address_removed Subject: Last Chance: Extra Ticket for Tokyo Show tonite Message-ID: Hello Jammers, Sorry to clog up your bandwidth. I still have one extra ticket for the DT show tonight(1/16) at the Kousei-nenkin-kaikan. I will sell it to YOU real cheap. Please contact me at (010)766-0152 Eric Persson (The folling is Japanese, not jibberish) ----------------------------------------------------- 今夜のドリームシアターのコンサートのチケットはマダ1枚余っているんです。 めっちゃ安く（！！）買って下さる方はいらっしゃるんでしょうか？ 御連絡は（０１０）７６６ー０１５２です。 宜しくお願いします。 エリック ピアソン ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 00:58:52 -0800 From: Andrew Embler To: "A daily dose of Ytsejam..." Subject: Birthdays Message-ID: *** Shared Birthday References Cut *** Great. !@#! great. My birthday's on July 11th. 7/11. All these jammers with birthdays shared by band members, celebrities, golfers, geniuses...and here I share a birthday with the name of a convenient store. My life finally has purpose. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 01:08:26 -0800 From: "Trevor W. Hoit" To: "'email_address_removed'" Subject: Magellan/FG/NKOTB/bafu tag Message-ID: >Magellan's "Test of Wills" rules. Trombone and metal -- who'da thunk it? > Thank for the witness as to how much ass Test of Wills kicks. It's much better than thier first two. Check it out now. Finneus Guage-This is a great cd, but you really have to be in right mood for it. Great, first Spice Girls on the Freaks list, now New Kids on the Jam! What is this world coming to? :) >p.s. afraid of us, hey yo dis ain'no game ta us, you strange ta us, das why >we >gittin dangerous, c'mon. and what the hell is THAT from? >Trevor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:38:02 -0700 From: "Vincent G. LuPone" To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: DT Easter CD Message-ID: At 06:40 PM 1/15/98 -0800, you wrote: >anyone out there know when I will be getting my DT Easter CD? >Oh wait, that was supposed to be the Christmas CD! > Never look a gift horse in the mouth. |---------------------------------------------------------------------| |"Wouldn't it have been cool to have Vincent LuPone | |a Fraggle Rock/Highlander crossover episode email_address_removed | |where Duncan discovers an email_address_removed | |immortal fraggle . . ." ICQ#: 3867291 | | - on the Student/Guitarist | | #ytsejam IRC Channel Phoenix, AZ | |= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =| | =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= | | | "The Secret Place I like to go..." | | | | http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palms/6933 | | | | "Welcome to My Hideaway" | | | -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- | |---------------------------------------------------------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:18:54 -0200 From: Parffit Jim Balsanelli da Silva To: "'email_address_removed'" Subject: ELP / Yes / DT Message-ID: Rogerio wrote in YTSEJAM digest 3463: "I just rented their "The Best of Emerson, Lake & Palmer"." "My favorites are "Tarkus", "From the Beginning" and "Karn Evil = 9"." I don't know if this CD has the song named "Knife Edge". This is one of the greatest songs from ELP. Another "must have" from ELP is "Welcome Back My Friends to the Show that Never Ends...". It's a triple LP (I don't know how it is in CDs) and has a live set from their tour in the 70s. The first record from ELP is pretty good too. Rogerio wrote in YTSEJAM digest 3464: "They even played a long Yes song (I think it has almost 20 minutes) called "Gates of Dellirium" (is this correct???) and the DJ said it was from an album called "Relayer"." It is correct and just to measure its time, all the A-side of Relayer = LP has "The Gates of Delirium". That's why the song isn't bigger, problems from LP era... In this album, Patrick Moraz was the keyboardist and made a great job. This is a Yes "must have". Rogerio, did this program ("Conex=E3o Progressiva") play any DT song??? = If it didn't, let's go brazilian DT friends, let's cry for it!!!! Parffit Jim Balsanelli ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 04:29:03 -0700 From: Michael Bahr To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: posts about DT CDs and Prism and stuff. Message-ID: email_address_removed wrote: Hi all. OK, I guess we've dragged this one to death, so I'm hoping this may be all that's said on the subject... the Cow God was right on target when he said that in all the time I've been doing this, only four print runs (2 DT, 2 Rush) have become backlogged, and that will soon be solved. This brings me to a very valid point that KAI raises below. And please, folks, can we stop throwing around that "10 months" figure as though it were fact? Like I said before, aside from a few strays, the oldest orders remaining shouldn't be nearly that old at this point. > but I might make the suggestion that keeping up with current orders while > simultaneously catching up on back orders is a disastrous business > practice, and absolutely unfair to back-ordered customers. I'd think OK, you make a valid point, and I considered this too, but think about this: if I divert all my attention from, say, the new DT Welcome to the Wasteland disc to fulfilling the backlog on DT Precious Things, then Joe Customer who bought both suffers *twice*... once for the PT backlog that we already have, and once for the WTTW backlog that would develop because I was spending all my time on the old orders. It would be robbing Peter to pay Paul; using my Mastercard to pay off my VISA, as it were. Instead, I am going to keep WTTW's backlog low (which will be a chore in itself since it's so popular already) while simultaneously catching up the old order queues, so that while perhaps Joe Customer's total waiting time for PT is longer, at least PT is the only delay he'll have to suffer through. Make sense? I know there's no perfect solution to this, and fortunately, a PT disc is just finishing to my left as I type this, so the problem is literally disappearing slowly and steadily every single day. > orders have been filled. Granted this upsets the flow of revenue, but you > should be well in the black from 10 months ago when you cashed all the > checks for these "old" orders. This stack (LIFO) routine is a horrid way > to fill these orders, when it's obvious that a queue (FIFO) should be the> implemented structure. Just food for thought, and again, I have Well, actually, FIFO is a lot closer to what I do. Whenever I get a new batch of blanks, the first thing I do is run all the backlogged titles for a while, and then I work on some of the other fulfillments until I run out of blanks, and then repeat. It's not a perfect solution, but I can cover a lot of bases that way. As for being in the black, actually, this doesn't happen (well, it does, but to a smaller extent than you might think). There's a reason for this. Ever wonder why Neil Elliott sells a triple Rush CD for $85, while I sell one for $60? I actually price my CDs in anticipation of what it will cost to make them when the heaviest part of the print run is underway. People who order early are actually paying too little, and people who order last-minute are actually paying too much (though by that time, they're happy just to GET one before it's sold out), and there's a reason for this. I base my pricing and price cuts on anticipated price drops in unit manufacturing cost. I don't think Neil does this, and as a result his prices make perfect sense to ME because I know that's what it's going to cost him to vend his CDs the moment they are opened for ordering. As the end of Neil's supply draws near, it would therefore start getting cheaper for him, though costs in the UK are probably higher as well. Ryan Whitaker is probably experiencing this right now; his first few Seven Wonders discs were probably fairly costly, and he's probably cranking them out right now like pancakes and using the dividends to upgrade his CD manufacturing computer(s), and rightfully so. And when Neil/Ryan starts a new project, the cycle will start over again. A perfect example: Welcome to the Wasteland. Why did I choose to cut the price for it? Why didn't I just take a sure-fire boot like that and milk it for the $40? Well, I knew it would sell regardless, so I decided to risk the lower price hoping I would make up for it in volume, and knowing I had 3 aces in the hole: I knew I could make the discs for a little less because in early March, Verbatim is dropping the price of their silver media, and in early February, I move to Mesa which is on a different power company (SRP) which is FAR FAR cheaper than Gilbert's APS power, and it will literally cost less to run the machines that make the discs. Furthermore, my auto insurance cost will drop April 30th by 20% because of 8 years of driving with a perfect record, which means less personal cost, which means system upgrades, which means a lower percentage of the per-CD cost going to pay for the system. In anticipation of these drops in cost, I cut the price from $40 to $34, a 15% discount, knowing full well that the first few WTTW's out the door in February would not be profitable (in fact, will be a slight loss!) but that the bulk of the print run throughout the spring would be profitable at the normal $4-$5 per disc (approximately) and that makes up for it, and everyone gets to pay less which makes everyone happy. So everybody wins. I hope this was interesting reading for all my customers. Yes, I literally cut prices before I can afford to every time, knowing that by the time I'm making most of the discs, the decision *should* prove sound. It's probably not a very smart way to do business, but you all vote with your wallets, and the vote has been quite positive this month. > I > think the point is that Mike is cashing customers checks and then waiting 8 to 10 > months (or more) to get them their CD's. That is just insane, and unprofessional. I gotta clarify the above. I don't just "wait". I don't sit on my butt and watch the walls and see how long I can stretch things before I deliver. :) The causes of manufacturing slowdown and shipping slowdown both, are well chronicled on my web page, and most of you remember reading about it when it happened. And now that things are running properly again, I'm doing *better* than normal duty, running current discs with minimal waits while at the same time catching up the old print runs. And when they're caught up, I'll have additional manufacturing capacity that can be put to good use stockpiling discs in ADVANCE of opening orders. Good, yes? I mean, wouldn't it be awesome for me to have an entire print run available for overnight shipping? :) > Things CD! IMO, there is only one acceptable solution for Mike: To STOP making > ANY new projects or accepting ANY new orders until ALL the backlog is caught up, Well, the numbers ARE proportional. I can't simply halt new projects; that stymies the business. What I *am* doing is favoring the backlogged CDs in the rotations, by a total margin of around 2 to 1. Of every 50 blanks I get, fully 28 to 35 of them go to PT/DW/VS/E2E (between 4 and 5 of each title). > and then to only make as many CD projects at one time as he can keep up with. For the record; I'm caught up on current stuff. So if I hadn't screwed up last year, there would be *near-zero backlog*. Oh, sure, it'd be a week or two, but big whoop. > Now for an unsolicited plug: Everyone should strive to be more like Ryan Whitaker > (Scarred Records) in this area. His shipment time is always around I'm striving as we speak. Ryan has been doing this correctly from day one, and I for one am happy that he has not run into the same disasters I ran into. He watched where I messed up and made sure he didn't do the same things. Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. And now it is me who looks to him as a model of efficiency and execution. > A similar Mike Bahr/Prism Records debate was underway a while ago, and the > end result seemed to be that Mike Bahr would keep posts about Prism > Records, his personal trials and tribulations, and details about how much > things cost and how much he makes, off the jam as much as possible. Give it a rest, Brian. You and Ptacek are the only ones who (vocally) harangue me like this. Chris and I are at a truce; why not join in the fun. I'm sure one or two more stragglers will pop up now that I've said that, but my point is proven by the support mails. My postings are unobtrusive because my address is easy to spot, and the subject is noted, so you can skip it if you need to. > I, for one, do not want to read about this shit. The ytsejam is a forum > in which to discuss topics relating to Dream Theater. I think most of Go back and read your intro-to-the-jam letter. Permitted topics DO include the DT/Rush/FW/etc bootleg market and such. Plus this is unmoderated and basically anything remotely connected is explicitly permitted in the mailing list rules. You want tight control, read Voices. I hear it's rockin' these days. > So let's just not talk about it. Prism Records' CEO can use web and email > marketing strategies without holding public quarterly meetings on the > ytsejam, I'm sure. "CEO"? Where did you get that from? I have only one title: "Mr." And people aren't even encouraged to use that. "Mike" will do. If there's one thing I'm not, it's egocentric, and I really strive to maintain that image because it reflects on who I am. Is that so wrong? > Mike's replied to my open letter on the Jam, but still hasn't replied to me > personally and so I still don't know when/how/if I'm going to get my $75 > bucks or the CDs that he owes my brother (VS and TDOW). I didn't want Workin' on that still, Adam. Yes, you're gonna get everything. I have a lot of backed-up e-mail still to go, but I ignore the Jam at my own peril. My fault entirely. -- - Mike Bahr / Prism Records - durnik @ goodnet . com - http://www.goodnet.com/~durnik/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:41:03 -0500 From: Pat Sullivan To: email_address_removed Subject: re: subtractions Message-ID: >> say is, I'm glad Kevin Shirley wasn't around to make a few "subtractions" >> while they were recording I&W. > >I agree 100% here, I think that the more notes and key changes and time >signatures that DT can cram into their songs and still sound great, the >better. >Look at LTL - one of the coolest songs on I&W - thank god that there were >no 'subtractions' from this. What I'd be curious to know is this: we've heard some/most of the demo versions of the songs on FII, I'd like to hear the "Shirley edit" versions - the ones he came back with. I'm wondering if he didn't cut *all* the songs down to "reasonable" lengths, and then the band put certain parts back in. (i.e. maybe NM is as long as it is because the band decided to keep the cool Stick stuff in the middle. I dunno). _____Pat Sullivan_____________________________________________ E-mail: (psull)-(at)-(ici)-(dot)-(net) IRC: DDictator WWW: http://www.ici.net/cust_pages/psull/psull.html NP: Dream Theater - "Falling Into Infinity" ______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:38:19 -0500 From: Stefan Rau To: email_address_removed Subject: Echolyn -Reply Message-ID: Hey Jammers! I've just recently resubscribed after an absence of about a year and a half, and man has this place changed....Mike Bahr has apparently gone from demigod to villain, Ben Laussade has changed from a cute wide-eyed little kid into some kind of sex pervert weirdo, and I don't think I've seen the name "Steve Borzilleri" yet.....but it's comforting to know that Messrs. Daugherty and Balkiewicz are still going at it. Gives the 'Jam a sense of continuity. :-) But anyways, since echolyn is being discussed, I thought I'd jump in: >>My question is this: would anybody who has the cabability be >>willing to make a CD-R of the Pre-As the World Echolyn disks? > >There was a place that was selling copies of "Suffocating the Bloom", >which is where I got my copy. I think they were called "CD Treasures". >Can someone on the Jam help me out here? As for the others, Syrinx >might be able to help. He was very close to the band. One of my favorite online music stores, M&M Music, has both "Suffocating the Bloom" and "When Sweet Turns to Sour" in stock, I think for about $15 each. I've ordered from them in the past, and I can vouch that their service is excellent--they take online orders, and I've always had my CDS within 3-4 days. The URL is . I still haven't seen an actual copy of the earlier CDS (the self-titled one and "...And Every Blossom"), and since my dubbed cassette versions are wearing out, I'd also like to throw my name into the ring as someone who'd like to get a CD-R of these, if possible. That is all. Now back to lurking for me. :-) Stefan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:45:00 -0500 From: "Tedesco, Matthew" To: email_address_removed Subject: yes / really wondering... Message-ID: from Roger: >music. They even played a long Yes song (I think it has almost 20 minutes) >called "Gates of Dellirium" (is this correct???) and the DJ said it was >from an album called "Relayer". Well, they also played a song called yes, roger, the album is "relayer," the song is "gates of delirium," and you should go out and buy it promptly. (this goes for everyone, especially the prog-oriented folks.) while your at it, pick up "close to the edge," "fragile," and "the yes album." i will guarantee, if you liked gates of delirium, you will like every one of those albums. ok, gear shift. i play in a band (like lots of folks on this list), and this is the second serious band that i've been in over the last five years. well, serious in that we write our own stuff, are putting together a demo, and are actively pursuing gigs. anyways, i was wondering, what are some of the best ways of getting music out? i mean, i know all about gigging, but i also gotta believe that there are agents, or receptive companies, or receptive radio stations, or something, i dunno, to increase exposure and maybe take a swing at doing this for more than just kicks. i know that the odds of being gunned down by derek's playgirl lover while holding james' joint in one hand and kevin's cancerous testicles in the other are far, far better than ever "making it" in music, but what the hell. i don't want to go through life saying, i shoulda tried harder. while i'm doing this now, might as well try to do it right. also, if anyone knows any good web sites, lists, people to contact, whatever, anything that'll tell me more about making my band bigger than my drummer's garage and a few crummy clubs, please oh please, let me know. thanks, MATt email_address_removed ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:16:12 EST From: HseJackBlt To: email_address_removed Subject: DTIFC mail and I&W CD Message-ID: Thought some people would like to know: I mailed out my DTIFC renewal last Friday to the New York address, and it came back yesterday "Returned to Sender, Box Closed" If anyone knows whether North American members should mail directly to the UK, please inform the 'Jam. I decided to get a friend of mine I&W for graduation, because after years of converting he recently picked up FII. It turns out that the CD was actually AC/DC's Back In Black album. The actual physical CD was black and said Images and Words and listed the songs (I bought it new). So, he took it to a local record store to exchange it. The store said no problem. To be safe, he wanted to play it before he left, and once again, Back In Black. He opened the other brand-new I&W, and same thing, Back In Black. The store said they would order another one for him, so he picked up Awake in the meantime. What makes this story more uncanny is that the store I bought the first I&W and the the store with other 2 I&W's are over 100 miles apart. Oh well, he should get it soon. If only the Bonfire box accidentally had the Metropolis box with other goodies... I share the same birthday with Muzz Skillings, Jack ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 3465 **************************