YTSEJAM Digest 3362 Today's Topics: 1) Re: The commercial music world by "Christopher R. Merlo" 2) Boston Show Stuff. by Andrew Rittner 3) Dumb labels by email_address_removed (Jeff Keifling) 4) Amorphis, TSO & Savatage by "Vincent G. LuPone" 5) Ozzy/music industry/maturity/Phish vs DT/other stuff..some DTC by "Neal Brown" 6) Re: TMNT/'deth by "Dale R. Newberry" 7) The downward spiral and APSoG by Luke 8) HydroToxin, Aryeon,Arkhe, Some DTC by "Brian Reeves" 9) DT in Boston by Isaac Sabetai 10) FII, after 3 months of nonstop hearing by Arash Ashouriha 11) Ozzy by Chris Oates 12) Re: UAGM - shufffle / change setlist? by A P Longley ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 23:52:51 -0500 From: "Christopher R. Merlo" To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: The commercial music world Message-ID: > Hopefully, one of these days there will be another way of doing things. We > need more DJs like D-Man who play what they LIKE instead of what will sell > airtime. We need more artists like Fripp who try to find different ways of > getting their music to the people who will enjoy it. The problem is, I > can't see things changing anytime soon. Neither can I, unfortunately. I happen to be in the relatively uncommon (among DJs generally) position of being a DJ for a non-commercial college station. WCWM doesn't sell airtime. Other than what the group of us DJs deem as a whole to be "heavy rotation" music (and I'm generally in the minority in these votes), there are no restrictions on what any of us can play. Furthermore, I'm lucky enough to have an approved "specialty" show, so that even those guidelines don't apply to me. I get to play what I like (and what I respect) because -- and, I fear, only because -- there is no money changing hands. I have the luxury of being a utopian DJ. I used to request DT all the time when I lived in Vermont, because I knew there was one DJ on my favorite station there (Dave Marshall, I believe was his name, on WIZN, for you Burlington jammers - er, for you, Rich) who is from LI and liked the Mets, so we had a connection. He also had heard of and liked DT, but wasn't "allowed" to play them. They weren't on the playlist. Hopefully someday there *will* be a different way of doing things, so tha the bands we love can make it. But I'm not holding my breath. See ya at the small clubs. -d ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough email_address_removed "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates email_address_removed /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Maintainer of the Official Dream Theater Frequently Asked Questions List http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/dtfaq.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 00:22:51 +0500 From: Andrew Rittner To: YtseJam Subject: Boston Show Stuff. Message-ID: Ahhh... Boston. Anyway, after fighting a while to find the Roxy, which wasn't as easy as I had originally planned (although I did get to walk through Chinatown, and visit some shops there, since I was early) I did find it. Stood in line for a remarkably short period of time, and went inside. The place was very nice, run by the Mafia, but very nice. Got me a spot up about the 5th row or so. Big Wreck: Doesn't suck. Comparitivly. To say, the strung-out heroin bands that usually seem to open for DT. I don't mind them much, the lead guy does seem to have a sense of humor, if a somewhat sarcastic, bitter one. Their sound guy is onstage with them, so of course, they're too loud, since he has no clue what they sound like in the house. But I got over it. The guitar swapping did start to get a little out of hand, of course, but that's allright. And to make things better, they did a nice short set. Dream Theater: Oh yes. Well, this is my 4th time seeing them live, and they still blow me away every time. Derek officially kicks ass now. I always suspected he did, of course, and liked him a lot from the moment I heard him play on AQ and ACoS, but tonight he really rocked ass. Funny as hell to watch him and MP banter back and forth the whole show. Someone gave him a rose, to which James responded "What am I, your messanger? Sure, I'll give him the flower. The only fucking single guy in the band, and he gets a rose!" That's paraphrased, of course, but you get the point. Along those lines, the band really seemed like they were in a good mood tonight. JM was even fooling around with MP a little bit during the rose segment, playing a little bugel call on the bass for Derek. James's voice seemed a little off tonight, but regardless, he still seemed like he was having a good time. They seemed very relaxed, and very together. It was a real tight show. John Myung. I've often held the notion that JM is a cyborg sent from the future to make all bass players (myself most of all) feel ridiculously inadequate. However, his OS and CPU were a little slow in some of the older versions, and he couldn't move while he played. At Toad's this tour, they upgraded him to version 2.0, and he moved around a little, but not too much. This show, he's up at John Myung 3.0. Not only did he move around a lot, but he looked really relaxed, and very cool doing it. He spent nearly the entire show up in this blue footlight, just playing away, looking very cool. He was unbelievable as always, but I was closer tonight than ever before. The only downside was that right as he was about to start the Ytsejam solo, some girl levitated out of the crowd, and floated in front of him for the duration of said solo, thus blocking my only line of site. (The other was blocked by Thor the Leather-Clad Death-Maker, who moved in front of me earlier in the show) But MP threw a stick into the crowd, almost as if he knew, and in the ensuing battle, the girl kind of floated off the side, out of my way. Apparently I am not yet worthy to witness the Ytsejam solo, since every time I try, someone seems to float out in front of me. I think God is just protecting my eyes from bursting. I'm not going to do a setlist, since I'm sure one has already been posted. However, I can't help but mention the fact that, just as my ass had begun to heal from the savage whomping it was getting all night, the band burst out into YYZ during the middle of Metropolis. I didn't expect that, and was nearly knocked off my feet. Well, that might have been Thor backpedaling, but who knows. Bought a signed CD afterwords too. I was going to get a shirt, but my mouth said "One CD please" before I could stop it. Not that I'm complaining. I'll get a shirt in Hartford. My home turf. Walking distance from the Webster. Oh yes. Oh yes. In any case, sorry for the length, I'm verbose. Just had to share. See y'all in Hartford, and beyond! Andy Andrew Rittner email_address_removed http://www.connix.com/~rittner ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 02:14:19 -0500 From: email_address_removed (Jeff Keifling) To: email_address_removed Subject: Dumb labels Message-ID: I wonder why record companies complain that bands like DT don't sell well. Just an observation, but I have YET to see FII advertised as a new release anywhere. Maybe I'm overlooking something, but could it be their own damn fault? Without any label promotion, of course it aint gonna sell. Btw, how are the sales doing? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 00:10:52 -0700 From: "Vincent G. LuPone" To: email_address_removed Subject: Amorphis, TSO & Savatage Message-ID: (NDTC....Dream Theater doesn't hit Arizona this winter) Hey, I was in the Wherehouse earlier tonight, and I just happened to see a Finnish band's CD in the A section :) Anyway, people have told me that these guys are VERY heavy and magazines have said things about them being proggy, so I figgered I'd check them out. The CD is a 5 song EP called "My Kantele". It's pretty cool, but this CD is MUCH more prog than I was expecting, and much LESS heavy than I was expecting. I'm into the bands that do both (with a strong emphasis on the HEAVY :). This band is very good, and the music is excellent, but it sounds like a band doing Fates Warning-ish music, only heavier, and with very atmospheric keyboards. The song "And I Hear You Call" is nice 'n heavy with kickin' double bass, but the cookie monster vocals are a bit of a turnoff. I'm interested in checking out more material by this band, so if someone could, please post to the 'jam or write me in private and let me know your recommendations and/or reviews of their albums. Thanks! Oh yeah, I picked up the new import of "Edge of Thorns" by Savatage tonight. Man, hearing "Believe" with Zak on vocals is INCREDIBLE. Now I just wish that Jon and Zak would sing together on something (preferably live, here in Phoenix :). Other than that, yeah, it's EOT, and it's of course VERY cool :) Also bought TSO tonight, finally. This rocks. It's TOTALLY Savatage :) Now I just can't wait for "The Wake of Magellan" next month :) Laterz, Peace and love, and good happiness stuff, ~Vince =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= | http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palms/6933 | -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 23:38:58 PST From: "Neal Brown" To: email_address_removed Subject: Ozzy/music industry/maturity/Phish vs DT/other stuff..some DTC Message-ID: >There are unfortunately a ton of folk out there to whom Ozzy Osbourne >and Ratt are "good music". It takes simpler stuff to penetrate the >skulls of these troglodytes. How many of us found DT after hearing >PMU on the radio? Heh heh....I did. Then again, I was a troglodyte back then.... ;D I mean, I had Vanilla Ice...Skid Row...christ, I even had the C&C Music Factory album for a while (I think at some point I just threw these all away!!) >Do you ytsejammers think that todays commercial world can be changed. >Or will it continually spiral downward so that my 5 year old nephew >banging on a pot and a pan will make millions. Nah. 1) MTV is losing influence among my generation (I'm 19) because more and more people are sick of going "baa". 2) At some point, it's certainly possible that the US/world economy will go under and the bloated music industry will plummet. Companies won't be able to afford spending billions, even trillions annually on advertising. (That would almost make a world-wide depression worth it. Almost.) 3) Your 5 y/o nephew could probably make that much if you recorded it and sold it to a classical music company claiming it was some lost recording made by John Cage. 4) The music scene undergoes drastic changes every so often. I get the feeling there's going to be a radical shift in music soon. Don't ask me what it is. It might be that talent and hard work is actually rewarded for once. >Of course it can't be changed. For as long as art, any art, is >prostituted for money, that which sells will be the art which is >supported. We are talking about a music INDUSTRY. So don't get your >hopes up at all, cause the most common denominator is in charge. I sort of disagree. Yeah, it can't be changed by anybody going out and doing it. But it will change, simply because of the social (and economic!!) forces behind it (but most likely not because of any artistic forces). >OK, it seems that everyone equates shorter tunes with "going >commercial" ..with good reason. There's a tendency for shorter songs to be more commercial. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know there's not a direct correlation but more often than not a 3 minute song isn't as interesting as a 10 minute song. Kind of like papers....a 3 page paper can be pure bullshit. Didn't read the text? It's okay, you can get away with it. But a 10 pager?? Heh heh. You can bullshit part of it but not the whole thing...if you do it tends to be obvious. Like I said, not direct correlations but certainly lots of tendencies. >As you become proficient, you start to increase the length and >complexity of your compositions. Call it an "adolescent" phase of >creativity. You write long, flowery, compositions, simply because >you can. As you really begin to master the process, however, you >become more concise, more able to express the creative thought in >shorter statements. This is the mark of those who have mastered the >creative art. I disagree. Consciseness doesn't necessarily indicate mastery. I personally prefer longer, non-conscise songs because they *tend* to have more to hold my interest. Five minute songs tend to have verse-chorus format which is always a distinct turnoff for me (FII has waaaay too much verse-chorus stuff on it, IMHO). It's difficult to have a ten minute verse-chours song, so you need to come up with some other sort of structural form. (Or you could just be Miles Davis and jam on one riff for twenty minutes, a la Bitches Brew ;D ) >1998/3=666 Heh heh. Guess I should stock up on crucifixes, bibles, and various angelic paraphernalia. Billy Graham, I'm coming!! Re setlists....Phish can mix up their setlist from night to night because the structures in their compositions are so much looser than DT's....Compare, say, Tweezer and Free to Learning To Live and Light Fuse. DT's compositions are so intricate it's difficult for them to play a song only once every couple of weeks. If anybody could pull that off with the kind of material DT plays, it's DT though. >The history of the music industry is a history of exploitation and >theft. Amen, amen, amen, allelujia, preach it brother, et cetera. Fripp got so sick of selling off his copyrights he took matters into his own hands and founded a label. We can only pray that they'll go out and find new bands to support, and not just Crimso/Fripp-related projects. >BTW, for people concerned with keyboards, Ozzy has(had?) Wakeman >playing with him... Say WHAT?!? Man, I about shit when I heard that....what stuff is he on? (Something tells me it's Diary of a Madman or something) On a lighter note, a mind-blowing article appeared in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch editorial pages. Essentially, it was some professor at Penn State with his head up his ass claiming that the Rolling Stones are the best rock band ever to exist. (Funny how the Stones played St. Louis the next day.) He also claimed King Crimson was the worst. He claimed to do this mathematically. He just graphed "artistic ambition" (read: talent) vs. "artistic success" (read: gold records). I think it was supposed to be tongue in cheek, but it was so typical of mainstream philosophy I just wanted to cry. I think I'm going to send a nasty letter to the paper about it. One more resounding chorus of "finals suck!!" please, before I sign off. =P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 01:42:36 +0000 From: "Dale R. Newberry" To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: TMNT/'deth Message-ID: > > >Hmmm... How old are you again? I mean, I'm 20, and the TMNT aren't that > > >old... > > The comic hit about 10 years ago. Man, it is amazing how time flies... > > And they were aroudn as a role playing game (a la D&D) a few years before > that, as I recall... Yeah, I remember doing some stuff with the role playing game back in Jr. High (I'm 23 now). Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Other Strangeness was the title on the main book, if I'm not mistaken/ BTW, any jammers planning on seeing Megadeth in Columbia, MO on Jan. 6 at The Blue Note? I'll definitely be there :). Now, let's see if DT comes to anywhere near here in the coming year... Dale R. Newberry "Evil Villains, stand down from the funk." - Space Ghost "The collective archetype is gettin' down." -Jim Morrison ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 17:59:44 +1000 From: Luke To: ytsejam Subject: The downward spiral and APSoG Message-ID: > Second point, a downward spiral. Of course not. Pop music today is > as bad as pop music ever was. You think the Spice Girls are bad? > What about Nirvana, disco, the Fat Boys, Three Dog Night, the > Carpenters, Peter Paul and Mary? It is not on a downward spiral, and > your 5 year old nephew will almost, but probably not quite, be able to > follow his producer's instructions well enough to make a hit record. > No, everything stays the same. I disagree with this. I believe that commercial music nowadays is taking a dramatic downward spiral. I agree that the bands you've listed are good examples of the standard shit that plagues or has plagued the commercial music scene, but at least these bands (underneath the wafer-thin crap they were repsonsible for), retained some level of authenticity (Nirvana for example), and I do say SOME level authenticity, not a HIGH level. Also, there was far more variety in the styles of music you'd see in the TOp 40. Today.... not so. Most R&B-House-Dance-Shit (RBHDS) groups going around today seem like they're just being churned out in some huge musical printing press out the back of Godknowswhere. I agree with you about "follow his producer's instructions well enough to make a hit record", that's something that hasn't changed, but the lack of intregrity, authenticity or uniquness across the RBHDS (and any other commercially viable) bands today is worse now than ever before. Remember, as always, that's IMHO. > If Apsog is great and complex simply beacuse it brings about a > certain mood and correspnding emotion. Is Sepultura's "Roots" great > because it makes you feel angry throughout every song? Is Korn's > self-titled great beacuse you get so !@#$%^ frustrated at life, the > universe, and "the man" after you hear it. Is Lorenna Mckennet great > because every song evokes infinate sadness and mystery? Good point, but I think it's more of situation of : Sepultura = Aggression Korn = Frustration McKennitt = Mystery APSoG = ???? HTF do you describe it ? There's nothing to refer it to 'cause there's nothing else like it. Ecstacy and sadness and happiness and mystery all rolled into one, and that's only just scratching the surface. Maybe APSoG = (((Sepultura) + (Korn) + (McKennitt)) x 100) + (Complexity/3)....perhaps ? The appeal for me with APSoG is something I can't just type up in a few lines of text. It's really quite hard to describe and if someone insists that they, "just can't get into APSoG" cause there's not enough complexity there to keep 'em satisfied, then there's no real point in debating whether APSoG is good or not. If someone doesn't feel those 'emotions' that others do when listening to APSoG (and it's something, IMHO, that's far beyond the intensity of whatever Korn or Sepultura could manage to acheive) then it's a case of 'just let it go'. Different people react differently to peices of music, so each to their own. It's like asking someone why they like, say.... chocolate. And they reply, "because I like sweet foods..." (or whatever) and then you ask them why they like this and they say, "cause I like the sweet, gooey taste...", and then you ask them why again and they say, "cause I just DO..", and then you ask them to give another reason why and they can't because you've gotten to a point when someone's preferences cannot be justified any further other than the fact that they "just like it." That's the weird way I look at it anyway. > As you really begin to master the process, however, you become more > concise, more able to express the creative thought in shorter > statements. Well put, excellent insight to creative process. Amen. -- Until the eleventh hour calls.... Luke email_address_removed.au ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 01:32:48 +0000 From: "Brian Reeves" To: email_address_removed Subject: HydroToxin, Aryeon,Arkhe, Some DTC Message-ID: Any fans Of HydroToxin, Aryeon, Arkhe or TreasureLand out in Ytseland? How about some reviews or suggestions on these bands. I've been hearin a lot about them, especially Hydrotoxin and Arkhe. Seems like we could use some new music threads as I for one am tired of arguing about Fates and Metallica and sellin out and stuff. BTW My Japenese copy of FII is on the way along with the Hollow Years Import single. They ain't exactly easy to get ahold of, are they? Fates in less than 2 weeks at the Mason Jar here in Phoenix again....Anybody goin???? 'nuff said Brian R. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 04:07:38 -0500 From: Isaac Sabetai To: Ytsejam Subject: DT in Boston Message-ID: Well the statement that summed up DT in Boston was: DT ass kickin' awesome-- Roxy sucks! DT was ON last night! This was my third time seeing them on this tour, and it was their tightest most cohesive show. But the Roxy had to ruin the night. The Roxy is an elegant looking nightclub in the theater district. After they pushed the starting time back an hour to clear out us prog thugs, the Roxy decided to cut the concert short, so they could double their cash with the dance partiers. :( DT was supposed to play all the usual songs, but the Roxy made them cut the set short. Even Big Wreck played a short set. DT did not play any part on ACoS, Scarred or Nightmare Cinema. I know this as a fact because I saw the setlist, and during Rooster I saw people crossing out songs on the setlist. On with the show. It seemed DT was happy to be back in the States. MP was an animal. He was headbanging every second and spitting like a fountain. JL did not miss a note. JP was more aloof to the crowd than usual. He came up to the monitors many times, but he seemed to play with a Stevie Ray Vaughan expression instead of his normal headbanging expressions. DS was great. He was doing his strange jigs and funky jives. JM was silent and focused, like he always is. Highlights of the show were: JL slapping me five at the beginning of Burning My Soul. Some girl brought flowers for DS. JL gave them to DS, and he came down from his keys and gave her a kiss. DT doing the solo section of Ytsejam MUCH faster. And pretty much every other second of this awesome but short concert. Isaac T-minus- 5 days until Ft. Lauderdale -- "It sounds diminished ... but it's not"- John Petrucci ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 12:27:44 -0800 From: Arash Ashouriha To: email_address_removed Subject: FII, after 3 months of nonstop hearing Message-ID: Hi Here is my opinion about Falling Into Infinity after 3 mounts of nonstop hearing : I like this album very much. Sure it's different but also Awake was different compare to Images And Words. Ever DT album is different I'm sure the next one will suprise all of us again. They are 2 negative pionts about FII : 1) The Keys are too low in the mix. Derek is a really good player and you can hear his incredible sytle if you listen to FII with headphones. THE KEYS MUST BE LOWDER. I just hope that Metropolise II will have a better mix. I mean, you can hear the Bass, Guitar and Drums very clean but the Keyboards are not very clean at all. It's really a shame. Look at Awake, Images And Words and even When Dream And Day have a better mix with lowder Keyboards. 2) You Not Me. I like this song but I think it's one of the worst DT songs ever. Without this song, FII would be a better album. I like Anna Lee, Hollow Years and Take Away My Pain a lot. DT need these ballads to get airplay, which is ok. But You Not Me is nothing special. It's not progressive. They could put You Not Me as B-side. The Demo version without Desmond Child is 100 x better then the album version. Feel free to mail your suggestions about this mail. Btw, TERRY BROWN IS THE PERFECT PRODUCER FOR METROPOLIS II !!! Arash -------------------------------------------------------------------------- | PROG OR DIE - The Progressive Music Page | | | | DREAM THEATER - FATES WARNING - ROYAL HUNT - SHADOW GALLERY | | | | http://lionel.kr.fh-niederrhein.de/~ashouria/index.htm | | OR | | http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/1748/ | | | | by Arash Ashouriha | | | | email_address_removed.de | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 03:48:35 -0800 From: Chris Oates To: email_address_removed Subject: Ozzy Message-ID: I liked "Ozzmosis" more than "No More Tears", but both are good, IMO. They're the only Ozzy I own, though, so what do I know? ;) __ /\ __ Chris Oates: email_address_removed __\/__\/__ +---- \_||_/ | "Still awake, I continue to move along, cultivating my | /__||__\ | own nonsense" -Dream Theater, "Trial of Tears" | // \ | \\ ----+ \| http://www2.ucsc.edu/people/aspect/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 13:39:07 +0000 From: A P Longley To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: UAGM - shufffle / change setlist? Message-ID: Regarding changing songs / setlists someone wrote: > > I know DT has this in them. They do put on an excellent show. They are > > the masters at changing little sections of their songs (UAGM has a few > > bars in it now with a shuffle feel) and linking the songs together. Glad someone else remembers this, this is the 1st time I've heard it mentioned here. It's one of the coolest little things I remember from the London gig. What they did was, during the section that links the 1st chorus to the 2nd verse, they did the last 2 bars in a shuffle ( 2 eighth-notes became the 1st 2 notes of an eighth-note triplet, with the 2nd held over the 3rd part of the triplet.) try and imagine this if you haven't seen the show (or they didn't play UAGM when you did) As far as DT playing a different set each night, this is all very well if they play so often and so widely that we all get to go to three/four or more shows. But last Tuesday was the 1st time for three yrs that they have come to the UK, and I think I can speak for most of the people there when I say that we wanted to hear the set they've been playing on this tour. Sure everyone has their own favourites, but if they'd dropped Voices or Lines in the Sand or JLMB or Met or PMU or the end of ACOS or Scarred, I would have just felt cheated. Perhaps if they become more popular, we will see more freedom in the setlist, but for now, I think it's very thoughtful of them to pick what they think we will enjoy the most, and keep playing the same set for each new audience, even if they would rather change things around each night. This shows a lot of consideration IMO. Thanks, Adrian. ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 3362 **************************