YTSEJAM Digest 3213 Today's Topics: 1) da jaaaaaaamz by email_address_removed (Ernesto Schnack) 2) Re: Random rumblings from the swamp by Rick Audet 3) bits and more bits by "Partha S. Mukhopadhyay" 4) 7-string by Christian P Kremo 5) what's missing, yup by "Tedesco, Matthew" 6) it's a cloudy, cloudy issue... by "Tedesco, Matthew" 7) Marilyn Manson, Castrati, and clones - oh my! by "Blevins, Mike" 8) Prog/Growl by "Matt Mommaerts (Fox 47)" 9) Re: Majesty tattoos by "Gregory S. Habetler" 10) Promo Copies by email_address_removed (Dr. Mosh) 11) Re: promo and other stuff by email_address_removed (Dr. Mosh) 12) Re: Random rumblings from the swamp by email_address_removed (Dr. Mosh) 13) Re: Bass fingers and Echolyn by Anna & Heike Boedeker 14) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3212 by Dan 15) bass stuff, opera and shit by Anna & Heike Boedeker ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 14:06:12 -0500 From: email_address_removed (Ernesto Schnack) To: Subject: da jaaaaaaamz Message-ID: > WDADU... That's my biggest disappointment with FII. There's nothing > where the _band_ just jams. . . there's plenty of interesting solo work, > but jams/rythm sections just don't fill my needs. Look at hells kitchen. hmm, i dunno, what about the middle sections to NM,PS, LITS, and JLMB; the unison licks on HK...the band jams are still there. One thing i just noticed on FII though... I remember when I first got LiT, I was rather impressed at how the band was live. The actually jammed and did improv, and they where playing all this bluesy/jazzy stuff. After hearing I&W and Awake I wasnt expecting that at all. Once you see DT live, you realize there's so much more to DT than what you hear on the albums. And then I listen to FII, and its there now. All those characteristics of DT that we only got to see live, are on the album; all those 'improv-y-sounding' solos, the ballads, the blues/jazz influenece. It seems to me that this is the first album to truly capture EVERYTHING that OFB is about. Cool idea for a bootleg: It wouldnt be a big seller, but it'd be pretty cool to have a boot made entirely of live improv jams...im sure many musicians would be interested in that. Funny Quote of the Week: "His choice of notes often doesn't mesh with his chord progressions. He's got his own style and that's great. But to be quite frank, I very much dislike the way he arranges notes; his sound is too muddy, distorted, and humbucky. And i dont like the way he plays the tremolo bar. It's unmelodic, abrasive, and rarely enhances the song. He experiments too much. My question to him is, 'Why dont you play the note that fits with the key?' " - Yngwie on Vai "You're playing was fine but your tone sounds like an electric ham sandwich"- Zappa to Vai :) Ærnesto ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 14:25:55 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Audet To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Random rumblings from the swamp Message-ID: Neil Gallop wrote: > Hi all Hi Neil :) > What a bad boy I must be. I have three copies of 'Falling Into > Infinity, one is a promo copy that my CD dealer gave me, one that > I bought, and one that my friend cut for me (without 'Hollow Years' > and 'Anna Lee'). Will I be able sleep tonight with a clear conscience - too > right I will. Of course you will. You wrote above "...one that I bought,..." which sounds as though you purchased a legitimate copy. Bravo. (Unless I'm misunderstanding what you wrote and maybe you mean you got a free promo copy and bought another promo copy, but that's not what you wrote.) > Next thing I know, some do-gooder... Wow. I'm flattered. :) > ...will be telling me I should > give the band DM 90 for two tickets for the Offenbach show on the 2nd of > December because I'm on the guest list, and hence depriving the band of > much-needed income - bollocks. Bollocks indeed. But this is not the proper analogy. Let's fix it: You are comparing being on the guest list with a promo CD. Now, suppose some money-hungry radio DJ decides he could get away with *selling* spots on the guest list for 2/3 the price of an actual ticket, and you decide to save a few DM and buy the "virtual" ticket. Now we have the correct analogy...giving money for a promotional item that will never find its way back to the rightful party. And if you can still sleep knowing you're supporting some snake like the DJ in this example, well... sleep tight. Rick Audet ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 14:51:15 -0500 (EST) From: "Partha S. Mukhopadhyay" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: bits and more bits Message-ID: > if any of you -want- copies of the old (echolyn) material, i have them > all on disc, so just ask. remember that chris buzby's new band, finneus > gauge (who, in my mind, put out the album of the year), is selling their > debut cd at http://www.ghostland.com/finneus/order.html so go check it > out! 1) get echolyn! i concur w/ seth, syr, etc, etc.....for the record, syrinx (mr. ostrich) is real cool on getting that stuff back to you..... funny thing, I agree whole-heartedly with his comment that Finneus Gauge has put out a great contender for album of the year in MORE ONCE MORE.....but right now, that disc is tied in my head with another that Mike thought considerably less about.....Fates' APSOG...... partha p.s. Mark Hannah and Jon Lenaway......i went to michigan for four years.....where the hell were you guys these last few years??????? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 14:43:24 -0500 (EST) From: Christian P Kremo To: YtseJam Subject: 7-string Message-ID: Well, at the Detroit show, JP's guitar rack was just sitting there on the right side of the stage, with nobody watching where anyone could have messed with them. Out of respect, I didn't dare screw with the man's guitars, but I did get a good look at them. I think he had 5, but I only remember 4. He had two identical B&W Picasso 6-strings with black headstocks. He had one B&W Picasso 7-string with a white headstock. And then there was the doubleneck for HY. He did use the 6-string for LITS, but he used the 7-string for NM, which surprised me, because he only has to go as low as a C# for that song. I thought it might have been a detuned 6-string, but he hasn't done that yet, so why start now? The audience seemed to really like Big Wreck that night. I thought they were really impressive, but a little out of place. But on the hand, good music is good music. They didn't have any hecklers as far as I can remember, but he did have the electrocution problem. I have had this problem before as well, and it is usually bad power from the club. The only way to avoid this in extreme situations is to put down your guitar, but he did most of the cool guitar stuff, so that wasn't going to happen. It must cycle from the guitar amp, to the guitar, through your body, and then through the mike. Really rough stuff. -C# ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 14:49:00 -0500 From: "Tedesco, Matthew" To: email_address_removed Subject: what's missing, yup Message-ID: Hey all-- >LTL? Am I being nitpicky? Maybe I just miss the instrumentals of IAW and >WDADU... That's my biggest disappointment with FII. There's nothing >where the _band_ just jams. . . there's plenty of interesting solo work, >but jams/rythm sections just don't fill my needs. Bravo to the folks making this observation. Finally identifies what I find lacking about FII (as much as the I do still enjoy the album). Maybe this is a legacy of Kevin's? Not sure. Truth is, though, that characteristc is what first grabbed me about DT, and though they may change, that one aspect will always be either loved or missed, depending on whether or not they employ it again. MATt (yet another...) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 15:14:00 -0500 From: "Tedesco, Matthew" To: ytsejam Subject: it's a cloudy, cloudy issue... Message-ID: Hi all, I just wanted to weigh in a few thoughts concerning the poor guy that got butchered for buying the promo CD. Some reactions mentioned feeding Dt's kids, Dt going out of existence, and mostly everyone had castration thoughts about poor Brian. I have the official copy of the CD--actually turned down the chance to buy the promo CD, but really only because I'm really anal about CDs and I didn't want that stamp on the cover, not unless it's free like it's meant to be. So nobody castrate me. I have, however, bought many of my CDs used, so for that, you may all want to sharpen the blades (raise the knife?). There is some validity to the point that DT will suffer to some fractional degree because someone buys the promo disk rather than the real thing. However, I have always been personally disgusted with the price fixing that has gone on with CDs. Someone brought up how it costs more to make a cassette, and they're right. Personally, every time I buy I CD used, I feel a little less victimized by the gross overpricing in the record industry today. Lots of other people get their hands on a portion of the money you pay to buy a CD outside of the artists themselves--so for every cent you're taking away from the artist, you're also taking that many more cents out of an industry that is so damn profitable precisely because it's got a stranglehold on the price point. Does that mean that some worthwhile band somewhere is a potential casualty of war? I suppose so. But some of the other potential casualties just might make it a battle worth fighting. And I don't mean to say that I am right, that my way is the highway or anything. My point is only that, from your pocket to DT's, the money makes a lot of stops. I'd prefer it to not make some of those stops. How each of us feels about this turns each of our actions. Judge not, lest ye be judged? Maybe, just look at the situation, and realize that Joseph Heller is somewhere laughing at it. MATt (yet another...) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 15:18:54 -0500 From: "Blevins, Mike" To: "'email_address_removed'" Subject: Marilyn Manson, Castrati, and clones - oh my! Message-ID: Kevin "Go Wings" Madden wrote... >more copies of the record. Man, these people are idiotic. People are so >unwilling to look in the mirror and accept blame these days. Sure, maybe >I kicked junior's ass, and fucked him up the rump nightly, but it's THE MUSIC >that drove him to suicide. Geez. Don't hold back, Kevin - tell us how you really feel. You know, knowing how the Marilyn Manson publicity machine works, I wouldn't be too surprised to find out that the guy was ENCOURAGED to sue. Either that, or it's because Metal Blade elected to settle on their suit, and his scum - sucking - uh, sorry, lawyer - is trying for the same thing out of an organization with larger resources. As for the social problems caused by not accepting responsibility for your own actions, well, I believe I went off about that last year. "Society encourages it, so why not?" I don't agree with that attitude, but I can see why people would think that way. People keep blaming kids killing each other in DC on the fact that they're oppressed, when the real reason is that their parents don't give a shit what they do until it's too late - or didn't you notice that your 16 year old was wearing four pounds of gold and driving a German sedan? "I mourn for those who have been so deceived..." Sorry, lost it there for a minute. :) > Brian wrote... >Well, if I had known that I was going to get my ass reamed, I wouldn't have >mentioned it. Actually, I didn't mean my post as a reaming - I was just answering Rick's question. I think maybe too many of us answered on the promo - and all of us left out the important thing. The RECORD COMPANY didn't make any money on it, either. :) After all, if I'd been reaming you, you would have known it... >I'm a college student with debts up the ass, I almost always buy CDs used, so >I >never contribute to a band's profit except at concerts. Does this trouble me? >No. Should it? I don't think so. Am I an evil person? I don't think so, but >you're free to think what you will. Actually, the problem I have with it is the person that sold it in the first place. If it's there, buy it - I own promos of things, too - but I've seen an ALARMING amount of them for sale over the last few years. I think the labels are giving out too many... > >I think any of you who have ever bought a used CD, whether from a store or >another person, need to take a look in the mirror before you jump on me. Actually, used is another story - that UNIT already generated it's income for the artist. From the artist's point of view - well at least mine - I'd rather have my music in the hands of someone who WANTS it, rather than just another sale. That way, they'll buy the next one... :) > >> Looks like you pretty much nailed everything I've been taught >> about the origins of Opera singing... now could you just tell me why the >> chicks were so into the dudes who had their balls cut off? (With so >> much factual history, I felt the need for some vulgarity). > >No chance of getting pregnant? :) > >Actually, castrati did not always have their balls cut off. There was >also a procedure in which no external organs were removed; only an >internal incision was made. To answer the vulgar question, though, a lot of women are attracted to men that are effeminate. After all, Poison got laid a lot, didn't they? Oooh, that should get some responses... :) > >> I've heard plenty, but most of them just sound like poor Geoff Tate >> impersonators. > >LOL, I have a friend who thinks the same - that everyone is trying to >impersonate either Geoff Tate or JLB. But who better to strive to become >;-) Yeah, but it's like all the Malmsteen and Satriani clones that never develop an individual style - okay, you're good, but why not listen to the original? :) Mike > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Nov 1997 14:21:22 -0600 From: "Matt Mommaerts (Fox 47)" To: email_address_removed Subject: Prog/Growl Message-ID: >For those of you who, like me, prefer grunting death vocals to most >prog vocalists, try some of the following bands, which all combine >crystal clear female vocals with death screams and grunts: > >Theatre Of Tragedy >Orphanage >Elend How about Amorphis too? :-) email_address_removed Personal: http://www.inxpress.net/~mattymo Mosh Pit: http://www.inxpress.net/~mattymo/moshpit ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 12:56:35 -0800 (PST) From: "Gregory S. Habetler" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Majesty tattoos Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Chad L. Cook wrote: > > How many other people out there have DT permanently emblazoned on > themselves? or is it just the Chads on the list? I can't believe that I've been lurking for almost three YEARS and now I'm posting about tattoos. I just got a Majesty tattoo yesterday on my left upper-arm. It's solid black with a cool blue drop-shadow. I'll be showing it off at the Portland show on the 14th. So what about the rest of you with ytse-toos? -Greg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 12:59:19 -0800 From: email_address_removed (Dr. Mosh) To: email_address_removed Subject: Promo Copies Message-ID: Gimme a break, You guys are all harping on Brian for getting a promo copy, it's not a fucking big deal... go back and eat your Fruit Loops... -The Doc -- #$%*#$*@ E-MAIL: email_address_removed #$%#$#$% _+_+_+_+ Unix, Internet, Intranet Engineering _+_+_+_+ [][][][] Dr. Mosh's Progressive Feast [][][][] #$@#$#@# http://progmetal.gmsnet.com @#$@##@$ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 13:03:29 -0800 From: email_address_removed (Dr. Mosh) To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: promo and other stuff Message-ID: On the Eve of Destruction, Mohamed Gaffoor said: > >Guys, >Don't y'all think you're being too hardon this guy that bought the promo. >Someone made the comment that DT has kids, etc, etc. I'm sure they're >making plenty of money on the tour and the legit record sales that our Well, I wouldn't count on that... production costs, distribution costs, I don't think they're making "plenty" of money per se... but hey, that's not the point, they're playing "progressive metal", so they got into this mess themselves... I'm sure if they wanted to make "plenty" of money, or even "a whole pissload" of money, they would be playing some other type of mutant alternative music, which would be a Load of crap which I would throw Ryche down the toilet. -The Doc -- #$%*#$*@ E-MAIL: email_address_removed #$%#$#$% _+_+_+_+ Unix, Internet, Intranet Engineering _+_+_+_+ [][][][] Dr. Mosh's Progressive Feast [][][][] #$@#$#@# http://progmetal.gmsnet.com @#$@##@$ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 13:07:21 -0800 From: email_address_removed (Dr. Mosh) To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Random rumblings from the swamp Message-ID: On the Eve of Destruction, "Neil Gallop" said: > >Hi all > >What a bad boy I must be. I have three copies of 'Falling Into >Infinity, one is a promo copy that my CD dealer gave me, one that >I bought, and one that my friend cut for me (without 'Hollow Years' >and 'Anna Lee'). Will I be able sleep tonight with a clear conscience - too >right I will. Next thing I know, some do-gooder will be telling me I should No way, you're a goody two shoes, I went to the CD pressing plant, stole the glass master, which actually cost Elektra a whole $100 maybe... actually, with mass production, maybe $50 to press it, and since they have another backup or two... it shouldn't be a big loss, then I went over to Avatar and stole all the ADATs they have of FII... How do you think I got those unreleased demos on my web page? :) -The Doc -- #$%*#$*@ E-MAIL: email_address_removed #$%#$#$% _+_+_+_+ Unix, Internet, Intranet Engineering _+_+_+_+ [][][][] Dr. Mosh's Progressive Feast [][][][] #$@#$#@# http://progmetal.gmsnet.com @#$@##@$ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Nov 1997 21:55:08 +0100 From: Anna & Heike Boedeker To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Bass fingers and Echolyn Message-ID: > WTF!!! Why is everyone talking about using three left hand fingers. >That's crazy. You've got a fourth finger and a thumb. USE THEM!!!! The >pinkey is the second most important fingert for bass playing (the middle >finger is the second). It's what makes bass lines more interesting than >just 1-3, 1-3, 1-3 pentatonic runs and makes lines smooth. I have a six >string and regularly use all four fingers (can't use my thumb yet because >I'm not that good ;-) to do chords on the bass and it works great. Doesn't >hurt at all. I know that those stupid Mel Bay Bites On Bass books say to >use three fingers and play the electric like it's a freakin' upright, but >the guy's an idiot. That style of bass playing is 50 years old at least. >It's ok for medium-tempo big band walking bass lines, but my fingers would >fall off if I tried to play Metropolis with out my pinkey (they fall off >anyway). Anyway, using all four fingers, one finger per fret and 2-3 for >the pinkey seems to be the best way to go without incuring injury or carpal >tunnel problems (as long as your fingers aren't stiff). 'acourse you're right and the only thing that really amazes me is that cans of worms have remained the same since I first picked up a bass some 20 years ago, like how can so many people overlook that there's a slight ;-) difference between a 34" and 42" scale... and even w/double bass it's not a secret any longer that many use a 1-finger-per-imaginary-fret-fingering at least in higher positions, since otherwise playing heptatonic scales is just too awkward. Yet I still hear the tenosynovitis argument, while actually I've made the opposite experience that it's easier on my hands and arms using as much fingers as possible (resp. makes sense) w/both, probably b/c the strain is more even then (-?). For avoiding to get locked in position playing (esp. on a six string seemingly a problem to many) I recommend using one's brain instead of the fingers :-) Heike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 16:29:43 -0500 (EST) From: Dan To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3212 Message-ID: If anyone has personally been to the Tradewinds Club, please email me in private and tell me what it is like....thanks. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Nov 1997 22:29:04 +0100 From: Anna & Heike Boedeker To: email_address_removed Subject: bass stuff, opera and shit Message-ID: .. Nicholas Giannotti ... > >Bass Playing: I'd be lost if I didn't use all four fingers on my left >hand. Honestly, I can't see how people can play by only using two >fingers (unless you're in U2, or Fluffy, the WORST band I have ever >seen). What about right hand technique? I'm still a two-finger player >there.... I found that for some stuff (like Jacoesque doubling) I liked using 3 fingers really better as the strain on my tendons was more even then, though it didn't give very much more speed (if this is one's goal I recommend using a pick like Helmut Hattler and getting immune to being reproached w/being a frustrated guitar player:-)). You can start by playing "4 on the floor" alternating like ring - middle - index - ring... until it feels natural and you no longer feel tempted to play triplets rather. Other interesting techniques comprise using one's thumb and the index finger... I saw this w/the guy who's name I alas forgot but I saw him w/the John McLaughlin Trio, he replaced Kai Eckhardt-Karpeh... anyway, since you then use not the tip but the fleshy sides of both fingers this yields a fat tone... 'acourse you can also just go fingerpicking (or flatpicking for that case) like on guitar w/playing chords... Or, umm... try using up- and downward strokes of your thumb in slapping (I know it's mega-out but as I'm nevertheless often required to do it... )... though the sound is unevitably different from conventional slapping, IMNSHO it somehow evens more out w/popping, which I don't really find desirable in all cases. Or... uh, what about playing false flageoletts classical guitar-style w/your index finger instead of your thumb (often a bit more precise) and plucking w/your pinky... Will that be enough to try out to to save the next boring 10 minutes? Perhaps we could next time rant a bit on speed and "true" two-hand tapping... . Steve Z ... >> Looks like you pretty much nailed everything I've been taught >> about the origins of Opera singing... now could you just tell me why the >> chicks were so into the dudes who had their balls cut off? (With so >> much factual history, I felt the need for some vulgarity). > >No chance of getting pregnant? :) This would be my guess, too... or, uh, you know girls sometimes like androgynous or somewhat feminine guys for being cute :-) >Actually, castrati did not always have their balls cut off. There was >also a procedure in which no external organs were removed; only an >internal incision was made. There was a method practisced in Italian barbershops where they were bathed in hot water (which as know damages testicular tissue) and then they rubbed their testicles until they kinda dissolved... Many parents did this to their kids b/c they wanted them to become stars (whereas boys can't really practice during the time their voice breaks they could), but only few really made it :-\ I think this really is shit as kids had no say in the matter, and I very little care of "art" here... Heike ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 3213 **************************