YTSEJAM Digest 3198 Today's Topics: 1) Re: misheard by "Vincent G. LuPone" 2) pop culture detox by john jens 3) Death Vocals! by Paul Dyer 4) My Usenet provider sucks! Help! by "The Notorious B.I.G. S.W.I.F.T.Y." 5) My Majesty Tattoo and the (apparently) Infamous Necklace by Chad Allen Klunck 6) Portnoy Printouts. by "Matt Mommaerts" 7) P.S. T-shirts by "Matt Mommaerts" 8) Re: Death Vocals! by Jan Ziese 9) Re: they have none to blame but themselves...... by Jan Ziese 10) Transformations: Classical to Death Metal by Richard Banister 11) No Name / vocals / MP & the jam / Apocalyptica by Seroussi 12) Ytsejam Shirts by email_address_removed 13) M*tallica, classical. by "Blevins, Mike" 14) RE: Wacker Blvd. in Chicago by "Blevins, Mike" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 00:15:21 -0700 From: "Vincent G. LuPone" To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: misheard Message-ID: At 05:38 PM 11/3/97 -0800, Eckie wrote: >"Won't let them feel me with >their elastic rubber nads!" >:) Finally, someone ELSE hears this!! ~Vinnie thought he was alone :) Peace and love, and good happiness stuff, ~Vince =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= | http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palms/6933 | -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 01:53:15 -0600 (CST) From: john jens To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: pop culture detox Message-ID: lo folx, slightly DT related: Pop Culture Detox- a new e-zine on the web, which features thought-provoking life and moral questions/essays, music reviews, movie reviews, live show reviews, interviews with bands, and a few random surprises. The first issue, November 1997, features interviews with Reprise Records' Kara's Flowers and K Records' The Crabs; music reviews of the latest albums by Dream Theater, Tanya Donelly, Super Deluxe, Letters To Cleo, The Wannadies, and more; reviews of 7"s and singles by Orange Cake Mix, Tokidoki, Oasis, and more; live reviews of shows by The Makers, Blur, Paul Weller, Helmet, and #Poundsign#; a feature article questioning redemption; as well as some extra fun stuff like hair care tips and cocktail recipes. Pop Culture Detox can be found at- http://detox.bluetonic.org or http://www.hoby.net/detox. so how's it DT related? i reviewed FII in it (and will be writing other stuff in very near future). it's really not prog based, more indie based. but we're aiming for something different...prog fits, eh? :) anyway, have a look. flame me privately if it sux. or if you suk. and how well you suk...or i suk. john j j e n s @ s h e l l . w e b z o n e . n e t s h e l l . w e b z o n e . n e t / ~ j j e n s / ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 18:10:08 +0900 From: Paul Dyer To: email_address_removed Subject: Death Vocals! Message-ID: Richie wrote: >>I guess that makes me >>shallow and pathetic. Oh well. It's not the first time and it won't be the >>last. Neal wrote: >>Let me get this straight...I don't consider growling and grunting--in >>other words, generic death metal vocals--to be singing, so I'm a >>mainstreamer who listens to dance music? Um...yeah. For one thing, I'm n >>ot going to be in your way when you listen to some guy going "UH!!!" thr >>ough a fuzz box. Get real. Secondly, it sounds really cheesy, IMHO. I m >>ean you can be menacing and scary and dark without acting like Marilyn >>Manson....fact, you can do it without any vocals at all. (I refer you >>to King Crimson and Univers Zero...some of that is creepy shit.) Next t >>ime, please remember to think *before* posting...and I also think that a >>real singer wouldn't hurt Carcass. No, he doesn't have to sound like >>Billy Joel, but he could at least have a human-sounding voice... Luke wrote: >>When I posted my opinion about OPETH originally, this was exactly the >>point I was trying to get across. I did listen to them a few more times, >>mainly because of the interesting moods and atmospheres created by the >>instrumental side of the band, but the lead singer's death vocals, >>prevent me from fully appreciating this band. I just can't help it, for >>me this sort of singing (should I call it singing??) will *never* appeal >>to me. Some think that death vocals are clever or are a good tool for >>conveying the mood of the music or whatever, but I *hate* them. Wow. Could someone please hand me that fire extinguisher?? Hmmm. It appears I struck a few chords with that shallow/pathetic line. A little harsh perhaps.... However I still stand firm. I am sick of playing a disc for my friends, they say "Hey this isn't bad!!" and then as soon as the death vocals start they go like "This is shit!!" People put too much emphasis on the vocals in my opinion and I think it sucks. Don't palm me off as someone who thinks that clean vocals aren't good, either!! Would I be on this mailing list if DT weren't my fave band and I didn't enjoy JL vocals?? I don't like all death vocals and I don't like all clean vocals. it's a matter of taste, sure!! But I think Opeths vocals are excellent. My fave singer of all time is Rob Halford. he can wail. But can he sing like John Tardy of "Obituary". I think not. I'm sorry but I just expected the people on this list to be a little more open minded. It doesn't hurt you know! Also I'm sick of reading the word "generic" crazy glued to the phrase "Death Metal". DM bands are as diverse and talented as Prog bands, its just distributed differently. "Take the Time" to listen. You may learn something - you may not! Cheers Paul D. P.S. If I see anyone mention Marylin Manson as a similarity to Death Metal again I will vomit! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 03:04:31 -0600 From: "The Notorious B.I.G. S.W.I.F.T.Y." To: email_address_removed Subject: My Usenet provider sucks! Help! Message-ID: To elaborate on my subject line, my Usenet host sucks ass. I posted a reply to an article in alt.music.dream-theater this morning, but I only get a select few of the posts to any newsgroup. If someone who reads the newsgroup sees a post from me, could you please send me an email telling me that my post got through? It's sort of important, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered. Thanks in advance, Mark Peters email_address_removed ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 03:08:00 -0600 From: Chad Allen Klunck To: email_address_removed Subject: My Majesty Tattoo and the (apparently) Infamous Necklace Message-ID: > The DT "symbol" > I read in the FAQ that the symbol is really a calligraphic M. I remember > when I first saw it (when I got I and W my first DT CD) I thought it was 2 > Ds (one facing left and one right), a T an I and a W all enmeshed > together. Any comments? Yeah, I have the Majesty symbol tattooed upon myself. I think it as kind of a special thing, as it's the only tattoo I have, and probably the only thing I love enough to have permanently ensconced upon my tissues. Anyways, if you look at MP, and see where he's got his (left shoulder, on the outside)...you have pretty much seen mine too. I can't wait to show him. Anyways, whenever people come up to me and try to figure out what it is, that's what they always see...I get lots of Os, Ms, Ws, Is, Vs, & Ds...I even had a friend joke that it looked a good bit like the logo for Virginia Military Institute (which is rather ironic in my life, for reasons not relevant to the discussion). When I tell 'em "it's just a goddamned M", they're like "Oh, that's awfully complicated...why didn't you just have an M stenciled on your arm?" I guess some people were never meant to understand. > First of all, a quick thanx to Chris Ptacek for his advice. For > future shows, I will either hand out pamphlets or wear a shirt outlining > everything anyone needs to know about my Majesty necklace, as I didn't > anticipate every person at the venue to keep asking about it. Now I don't know the story behind this one, but I think it would be a perfect complementary item to my aforementioned Majesty tattoo. Gimme gimme gimme! :) Chad ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 03:20:16 -0600 From: "Matt Mommaerts" To: Subject: Portnoy Printouts. Message-ID: <01bce902$dcd53d20$message_id_removed> I just got back from the Milwaukee show.... KICK ASS. huh huh I got the band turned on to South Park... saw more jammers...saw "Take Away My Pain" live... but they "took away" UAGM :-( oh well... it's DT... they can do whatever they want and it'd rule, right? I GAVE MIKE P. Ytsejam Digests 3179 - 3195 tonight. (and the last 3 South Park vids) He got them in raw unedited form. Like, I can't believe anyone's even discussing editing them out. If you are going to edit stuff out for him, I want the crap edited out of mine too... GEEEZUS. When he gets it at home, no one edits it! :-) just my opinion! I also told him I'd print out all of the Digests and get them to him for the November 18th show in Madison. If someone else gives him any between now and then, PLEASE LET ME KNOW... so I don't go giving him stuff that he already has.! Thank you! ****Spoilers of some sort... ******* They changed the set around a bit... like I said... TAMP got added, and UAGM was taken off...LITS was the opener with Derek soloing in the beginning for a bit. Great show... I'm sure someone else will do better reviews than I ever could... so I won't bother... It was cool meetin' people again... specially Scott. huh huh.... See y'all on the 18th! Matt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 03:39:49 -0600 From: "Matt Mommaerts" To: Subject: P.S. T-shirts Message-ID: <01bce905$97caf460$message_id_removed> When I first got to the show 2nite... at the end of sound check... I caught up with MP at the t-shirt stand (before the doors opened) and he was asking when the "other shirts were going to be there" and the t-shirt guy said they were being shipped to Denver. I asked Mike what they were like, and he said they were lighter colored. I should asked him why they don't make XXL's for fat people like me! Anyways... thought some people that get to see future shows would like to see that info. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 97 12:11:24 +0100 From: Jan Ziese To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Death Vocals! Message-ID: Paul D. wrote: >Wow. Could someone please hand me that fire extinguisher?? Hmmm. It >appears I struck a few chords with that shallow/pathetic line. A little >harsh perhaps.... However I still stand firm. I am sick of playing a disc >for my friends, they say "Hey this isn't bad!!" and then as soon as the >death vocals start they go like "This is shit!!" People put too much >emphasis on the vocals in my opinion and I think it sucks. IMO vocals are about the most important part of a song, especially if you don't pay too much attention to the technical aspects of how a song is played, but listen to the overall feeling and atmosphere. Chances are that the vocal part in conjunction with the lyrics is what makes you like the song. Or what makes you hate it. I don't like death vocals, so I don't like those songs. It sometimes makes me sad, because there are songs with 'grunting' vocals that attract me a lot musically. However, I won't say something like 'They should have done it with clear vocals so I could enjoy it too'. They are great in their own right. Unfortunately there's always going to be a number of songs that I cannot relate to for that reason. Bad luck for me. It's not some contest 'Princess Clear Voice' vs. 'Grunting Monster'. It's just a variety you can choose from. If you only like one side, that won't hurt anybody. If you like both sides that's absolutely great because you can choose from a greater field of music. This has nothing to do with being open minded or not. It's all about personal taste. It's like somebody who doesn't like wine, for example. You can force feed him/her, trying red wine, white wine, Beaujolais, Chardonnay or Sauvignon, he/she still won't like it. But the reason is not a closed mind, it's just his/her taste. Don't think of those people who dislike death vocals, wine, dogs or whatsoever as close minded. If you do so, the one who's really close minded is nobody but yourself. > Also I'm sick of reading the word "generic" crazy glued to the phrase >"Death Metal". DM bands are as diverse and talented as Prog bands, its just >distributed differently. "Take the Time" to listen. You may learn >something - you may not! Agree. ------------------------------------------------------------------ - Jan Ziese - +49 (0) 7738 / 99 858 - jzi@star-ag.ch - ------------------------------------------------------------------ - Join the army! Meet lots of people! And kill them. - ------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 97 12:33:07 +0100 From: Jan Ziese To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: they have none to blame but themselves...... Message-ID: At 09:19 03.11.97 -0800, you wrote: > >you know how DT and we go minor ballistic when we see the band's name >spelled Dream TheatRE? How can you blame other people when the band >themselves can't get it right? > >i'm talking about the liner notes in WDADU......the first time the band >name appears inside > A Fortune In Lies > music by Dream Theatre > >if you have an original copy, check it out..... > You're right. It's been misspelled there. But you really cannot blame the band for that mistake. Those liner notes are often compiled by people who are not really related closely to the respective band. As you can see in many liners, they often are of little accuracy and full of typos. Anyway, I'm always wondering why the Americans would make that mistake (like in those liner notes, or like in the official DT home page). They should get it right without thinking. However, you can't really blame the English, for they are just a bunch of morons. Mpf. OK, that was only a joke. Calm down, I was just kidding... How could I possibly wriggle out of that? Maybe a disclaimer can do the trick: **** DISCLAIMER: **** I feel deep *love* for all people from all over the world no matter if they are American, Russian, Chinese, French, Canadian, Brazil, English etc. Yes, I especially love those English people for their great achivements, e.g. Monty Python, the Discworld, the BBC, Civilization II, Threshold, London, the Tube, the Queen, Carol Decker and Dave, a UK Jammer. ------------------------------------------------------------------ - Jan Ziese - +49 (0) 7738 / 99 858 - jzi@star-ag.ch - ------------------------------------------------------------------ - Lottery: A tax on people who are bad at math. - ------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ------------------------------------------------------------- --- -- Jan Ziese - jzi@star-ag.ch -- -- - -- STAR AG - Wiesholz 35 - CH-8262 Ramsen - Switzerland -- - -- -- Tel.: +41 (0) 52 - 742 92 51 - Fax: 742 92 92 -- ---- ------------------------------------------------------------ ----- ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 08:06:46 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Banister To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Transformations: Classical to Death Metal Message-ID: DEATH METAL: There's something to be said for death metal, and the vocals in it. For example, the feeling you get from blasting Obituary's "Don't Care" after blatantly failing an exam. . . nothing beats it. The only words I can distiguish in that song are "don't" and "care" (and they never print their lyrics!), but that's really all they need to say. . . also, someone commented on death metal, proggers, and fun... I think we all take ourselves much too seriously here. I mean, we all listen to DT and try to analyze what they mean in their brooding lyrics, and get all uppity when someone doesn't like what we listen too.. We're all so far gone into it. There's something to be said for _fun_, for music that doesn't necessarily make you think, but that you can just get into. I mean, what's more fun than just Cannibal Corpse? They have these fast as shit guitars, the drummer(who's probably got thighs like a speed skater) can barely keep up, and some crazy vocalist who can keep a straight face while screaming "ruuuuuaaaaarrgh" into the mic... You just put the album on, read the lyrics while you listen, and you have a night (well, about 30 minutes) of good, stress-free listening. CLASSICAL: I don't know. . . anybody who knocks power in classical-type music should go out and see 'Carmina Burana' (yes, it's a ballet. Go see it, ya pansy). They put 15 Men on one side of the theater, and 15 Women on the other. Nothing I've ever heard can compare with the power you feel when they all start singing. No other medium has conveyed that to me yet. .. I mean, you can set up a monster rig in a stadium, plug in and hit an E5 power chord, but these people will blow you away with their _voices_, sans amp, sans sound system. It's amazing. . . TRANSFORMERS: Without a doubt, the best movie I have ever seen. It deals with surprisingly mature emotional themes (heh. . they even bring in a female transformer. . . like smurfet or something. She's gotta love her job..), e.g. death, unity, spiritualism, etc. Not a kids movie by far.. in fact, I think they even banned it in a lot of video stores, as it wasn't appropriate for children. Sucks. . .I've been trying to actually get a good copy for a while... I used to have the soundtrack on tape, but I have no idea where it went... wish I could find it, though. .. that's it for now. . figuratively, Rich ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 14:08:13 +0100 From: Seroussi To: email_address_removed Subject: No Name / vocals / MP & the jam / Apocalyptica Message-ID: <345F1E3D.C806604D@algonet.se> Is the band "No Name" any good? I saw a CD from them and it seemed like it's prog... I assume it is not some crappy CD because it's in the metal section in a shop that actually knows what metal is, i.e., they don't put marylin manson and nirvana there... ---- > From: "Tedesco, Matthew" > > But in truth, vocals are on the whole the most... unavoidable aspect of > most of the music industry. Ok, anyone knows Pan-Thy-Monium? I think the production on Khaooos and Kon-Fus-Ion is the perfect production for a death metal album, with the vocals sitting in the back of the mix. ---- > From: Albert Balkiewicz > > The last thing I would want is Mike reading through the first 4 > pages of the Jam and saying "What the fuck is this?" and giving up. He read the jam before so I doubt he'd be surprised... ---- > From: "Christopher R. Merlo" > > Blecch. MIDI's a wonderful thing, but it's a tool. Just as you can't live in > a hammer, you can't (or, at least, I can't) listen to MIDI files as a > replacement for music. There are too many variables - that are meant to be > variables - in live performance. (Hence why I dislike this techno movement. > "All this machinery making modern music...") I reckon MIDI would get better with the years, thus taking such variables into consideration...of course it won't be able to replace live performance & improvisation, but the music may sound more "live"... > I would disagree. I think that Apocalyptica is perhaps the most original > interpretation I've heard of Metallica's music. Wasn't there a band that did techno versions of metallica songs? I think having metallica's stuff orchestrated will be more interesting than what apocalyptica did... > Whether it's "not very complex" is a debate I'd probably rather not see. :) > But I think you'll agree that compositionally, it *is* rather complex. I > don't know if you've ever tried to get a rock band to play something like > "Puppets" or "To Live Is To Die/Dyer's Eve" all the way through, but it's > tough. well, structre-wise, many metallica songs are alike (intro, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, solo, verse, chorus) and in some songs they stick a mellow part with the solo... ---- > From: Lars Hellsten > > How on earth does that make them inferior musicians? You just implied > that you haven't heard any original compositions by them, yet you claim > they're inferior composers... They are inferior because they don't put their own compositions on their albums. > > Also, Apocalyptica didn't add anything to the songs besides changing the > > instruments. > > Perhaps using different instruments is all they WANTED to add to the > songs? Perhaps using different instruments is not all I want to hear? > > I'd have more respect to people who compose their own music. > > So you respect the musicianship of the members of Green Day more than you > respect the musicianship of the members of a symphony orchestra? I have more respect for Green Day as composers than I have for the members of a symphony orchestra that not compose any music at all. I have more respect for the members of a symphony orchestra as musicians than the respect I don't have for Green Day as musicians. To clarify this furthermore: musician = a person who plays a musical instrument. composer = a person who composes music to be played on musical instruments. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 08:07:33 EST From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Ytsejam Shirts Message-ID: --- Received from HQ02MEMO.TC6NSMM MCCURDY, SHAWN 11-04-97 08:06 Could someone please let me know if it is possible to get a Ytsejam T-shirt? Is there any actual "official" shirt for Ytsejam members? If so, where can I get one, or if someone could let me know what it looks like then I can have one made. Any help would be much appreciated!!! Only 15 days, 11 hours and 26 minutes 'til showtime!!! Shawn email_address_removed ---- 11-04-97 08:06 ---- Sent to ------------------------------------ -> IBMMAIL.INTERNET Advantis IBM Mail Exchange ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:15:42 -0500 From: "Blevins, Mike" To: "'email_address_removed'" Subject: M*tallica, classical. Message-ID: >i think it's a great idea. One thing about classical is that it has a >sheer power to it (Wagner's Ring, Beethovens 9th with the choral >movement) that isn't found in most forms of music except for metal. I >think the two complement each other well. I think I would love to see more >metal bands incorporate classical symphonic music in their songs. (Are >there any that do?) One word: ANGRA. Check them out. Jason, will you back me up on this one? :) Actually, I've been saying for years that music like "Master Of Puppets" has more to do with classical than any other genre heading - even rock. For anyone that says Metallica's music (up until the Black album) isn't complex, try playing something like "...And Justice For All" in a band some time. The playing may not be "complex", but the arrangement certainly is... > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:18:26 -0500 From: "Blevins, Mike" To: "'email_address_removed'" Subject: RE: Wacker Blvd. in Chicago Message-ID: >> don't any more. :) On the way to House of Blues we encounter >> That Street It's Fun to Make Fun Of, namely Wacker Boulevard. >> Leaving out our cruder jokes, I became, briefly, a Walker on Wacker. >> (Those who know me well will recognize a double entendre there. heh) > >We also had an encounter with Wacker Boulevard and couldn't resist >cracking several jokes about it. Anyone else experience this >phenomenon? Actually, my experience was to suggest re - naming it to "Pac - Man Boulevard." This shows two things: 1. I'm old enough to remember Pac - Man clearly. 2. I'm not nearly as perverted as you lot. :) Mike > ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 3198 **************************