YTSEJAM Digest 3195 Today's Topics: 1) Chicago show; upcoming Atlanta show? by Phil Carter 2) role of vocals, DT mix, etc. by "Tedesco, Matthew" 3) Could someone please send me the last 2 jams? by The Phoenix 4) DT screen saver??? by "II Stephane Fortin" 5) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3194 by email_address_removed.ca (Rick Barkhouse) 6) re: Transformers!! by "Chung Ng" 7) Re: Transformers by Stephen Dedalus 8) Big Wreak, Sevendust, CD prices, Computer Prices.... etc... by Jeremy Kube 9) Re: DT in PC World!?!?!? by Damon Fibraio 10) Re: printouts of the jam by Albert Balkiewicz 11) 'watchful.eye' is open for orders! by "Ryan Whitaker" 12) Re: Apocaplyptica / Opeth by "Christopher R. Merlo" 13) misheard by Dave 14) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3194 by Lars Hellsten 15) by Jon Parmet 16) Chicago trip/show Part II by "Paul W. Cashman" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 14:27:28 -0500 (EST) From: Phil Carter To: Keeper of the Seven Ytses Subject: Chicago show; upcoming Atlanta show? Message-ID: Greetings ye 'jamanoids... Brian K remarked: > Hopefully, some dates in Atlanta and NC will be added for '98! Any DT-heads > from GA, NC, SC area, e-mail me privately. (Would love to hear from some SE > fans). I'll second this one. Wes Foll and Chris Ptacek's reviews of the Chicago show are making me kick myself for deciding not to trek up there. I should have gone. Damn the account balance, full speed ahead. On the plus side, I did get a pretty good head start on "Riven" this weekend. Ytses, go and get this game. It kicks. Pellaz, Wes, Big Swifty, Brian K -- anybody else wanna meet in Atlanta if and when DT comes through here? I'm keen to meet a few other 'jamanoids besides Paul, whom I see every year at Dragon*Con (and at Rush concerts too). Cheers, Phil ===================================================================== Phil Carter -- email_address_removed (work), email_address_removed (personal) Tech Support, NorthEast Georgia Internet Access, 546-5787 "Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life." -- Berthold Auerbach Currently playing: Dream Theater -- "Images and Words" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 14:26:00 -0500 From: "Tedesco, Matthew" To: email_address_removed Subject: role of vocals, DT mix, etc. Message-ID: Hello all, Paul D.: >Now this pisses me off. To not like a band because of the vocals, when you >like the music, is shallow and pathetic. I must ask you to give them >another listen - it may grow on you!! Well, that might be a bit harsh; it seems more a matter of taste. In some sense, yes, vocals are just another instrument. Or as a friend of mine from college put it, "all vocals besides Geoff Tate's suck anyway, so I pretty much disregard 'em all." OK, that's *really* harsh. But in truth, vocals are on the whole the most... unavoidable aspect of most of the music industry. Less so in prog and metal than popcrap, but still they sit prominently in the mix, and when we unfold most cases, we don't get sheet music, we get lyrics. Truly bad vocals--I will always use Bruford's Gradually Going Tornado as an example, but there are plenty more, depending on your tastes, can sometimes simply cannot be avoided, and so goes the overall enjoyment of the music.... Here's another way to look at it. For instrument people out there---I'll take guitarists as an example--I would imagine that a truly godawful guitarist, lacking feel ability, songwriting skill, (I'm describing all too many guitarists out there,) whatever one judges by--could ruin a band for a lot of people. I play bass, and this sometimes is true for me. But, once more, it comes down to personal taste. And concerning matters of taste, a judgment along the lines of "shallow and pathetic" seems excessive. ]From Luke: >If you were to send a single 90 minute tape to someone you had never met >(but corresponded with frequently via email), in order to convert them >to into a DT fan, what songs would you put on this tape considering that One 90-minute tape... you have just described what I have found to be the single most difficult task to accomplish in the history of humankind. OK, OK, I exaggerate, but still, I could barely make a DT mix that felt complete before FII--now I'm lost & frustrated. Of the songs you mentioned, I don't think I'd include both TTT and UaGM from the I&W portion--I'd remove one for Surrounded. It's got broad appeal, yet still very progressive--possibly the most subtle progressive song I can think of. And, SDV might be a poor choice--great stuff, but it really is something of an aberration when lined up with DT's other work (for obvious reasons). Plus, those obvious reasons make it clear that SDV has nothing to do with the direction of DT in the future. Nothing against the song, but it stood alone with KM in the band, and we'll never see anything remotely like that again (from DT, at least). And concerning the FII block, I think you'd be remiss in omitting NM and ToT. Both those songs to me encapsulate best so much of what DT is now, and where they are headed. Last thing--someone had mentioned a while back about a band called Days of the New and their self-titled album. I found it unimpressive. Very similar to Alice in Chains' Jar of Flies, but with none of the character, song-writing, musicianship, and, to bring this post full-circle, great distinct vocals of AiC. And now... I am finally caught up from the weekends 'jams. (Whew!) MATt (yet another...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 13:30:12 -0600 (CST) From: The Phoenix To: email_address_removed Subject: Could someone please send me the last 2 jams? Message-ID: Could someone please send me the last 2 jams? -~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_- | Robert Taylor Take me back so I can see | | email_address_removed The Way It Used To Be | | The Phoenix -Dream Theater | -~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 14:58:05 -0500 From: "II Stephane Fortin" To: Ytsejam Subject: DT screen saver??? Message-ID: <345E2CCD.17E69F0C@rmc.ca> Hi Jammers! I wanted to know if anyone knows where I could find a Dream Theater screen saver (if it exists). It would be just perfect to add to my Falling Into Infinity theme I made. If someone knows where to get a DT screen saver, please e-mail me!!! Stef Le Dragon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:58:59 -0400 (AST) From: email_address_removed.ca (Rick Barkhouse) To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3194 Message-ID: Paul Dyer wrote: > I just watched "Transformers - The Movie" for the first time in like 10 > years. It's so fuckin cool. The soundtrack is like Prog Rock with a band > called Lion doing the theme song and a band called Sceptres' something(???) > doing some other songs. Also Wierd Al Yankovic doing "Dare to be Stupid" Yes!!! The Transformers: The Movie is a soundtrack you guys should definitely check out. While the songs by Lion and Kick Axe :) are pretty cool, the most prog-ish stuff if the actual score by Vince DiCola (some of you may remember me mentioning him before - I love his stuff!!) I just recieved the special collectors edition of the score, which contains all 74 minutes of background music from the movie. It's very similar in vein to the Rudess/Morgenstein Project, lots of keyboards. Vince is also in a band with Doane Perry (drummer for Jethro Tull) and the singer from Tower of Power, called Thread. For more info on the collector's edition score, go to: http://www.noblecan.org/~jhartman/ And look under BotCon '97 -> merchandise. It's $40 though, so some of you may not be willing to go out on a limb :) It's a 2 CD set, the first one being music from Stan Bush (who also does some songs in TF:TM, "Dare" and "The Touch"), but if you like RMP, you'll love Vince's Music. He also did the score for Rocky IV. > Also famous voices - Orson Welles, Judd Nelson, Leonard Nimoy, Eric Idle. > > Is there a second movie? My childhood memory fails me there. No, alas there was no sequel to TF:TM, which may be a good thing -- sequels seem to always ruin the originals for me :) GO BUY VINCE DICOLA!! :) Your resident Vince DiCola expert, // ============================================== // Rick Barkhouse | // -- 706 Crowell Tower -- (902) 585-2700 -- | // Homepage: http://dragon.acadiau.ca/~015691b/ | // ============================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Nov 97 14:57:45 EST From: "Chung Ng" To: Subject: re: Transformers!! Message-ID: >From: Paul Dyer >To: email_address_removed >Subject: Transformers!! > >The soundtrack is like Prog Rock with a band called > Lion doing the theme song and a band called > Sceptres' something(???) Is this the same band that had an album out called "Dangerous Maneuvers"??? They were pretty cool... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 12:37:06 -0800 (PST) From: Stephen Dedalus To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Transformers Message-ID: Dude, I don't think that's prog on the movie. I think it's real hard-chore glam. Isn't there like, heh heh, Warant and sthtuff? IMO, of course. Oh, and the movie does kick ass. I remember seeing it in the theaters. Megatron should have been resirected if Prime was. God damn it! The new Desepticons justa didn't hold candles to the old jets. My collection of over 150 is still in a long-closed toy chest somewhere. Rock on first series!!! Be well. Matt B "No man is an island? Pok. Rubbish! Every one of us is an island. If it were not so, we should go mad at once. Between these islands are ships; airplanes; telephones; wireless; what you will, but they remain islands. Islands that can sink or disappear forever." (John Fowles, The Magus) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 16:03:48 -0500 From: Jeremy Kube To: email_address_removed Subject: Big Wreak, Sevendust, CD prices, Computer Prices.... etc... Message-ID: Hey all, I wanted to reply to some stuff that I read in the last few days.. First, Big Wreak and their "attitude" at shows... I read about people saying that they were rude to the crowd. I have go with the band on this one. They were given a lot of shit (but more razzing) at the Toad's Show in New Haven, i.e., someone yelled to them, "Play something talented" and the guy did, thus proving that he was. He also said "Wow, is this a tough crowd, I forgot that I was playing in front of a shitload of musicians..." The Chicago tour (I think) is like the 5th or 6th show that DT has done with Big Wreak opening, by this show they must be sick and tired of people yelling at them to play something talented or getting shit constantly. Maybe? Just my opinion... Second, SEVENDUST. I finally got the album last Tuesday. KICKS FUCKING ASS! I love this CD, it reminds me an incredible amount like Faith No More with a little more techno-industrial style to it. It grooves, it's heavy and I would recommend it to any heavy metal lover. One downpoint, by song 9 it seems like all the songs are the same, but mind you, the songs are good. Third, CD PRICES. Goddamn! I can't believe how expensive these are getting! I paid $16.99 for Sevendust and $17.99 for DT when I bought it on release day. Damn! A year ago I could have nearly 4 CD's for that cost. Fourth, I HAVE GOOD NEWS... Since we are in a computer oriented age, with constant competition... I heard on Good Morning America about a week and a half ago that Computer Prices will be dropping like a stone, sometime around Christmas/New Years this is supposed to happen. The computer companies will be looking to liquidate a lot of the overstocked items as well as just to push products. Also, Windows 98 is scheduled for release sometime between March 98 and June 98, it might possibly be renamed as well (considering it is now coming out later than expected) This is taking so long because according to Micromonopoly, I mean Microsoft, Windows 98 had a lot of bugs that had to worked out before production begins. WORD TO THE WISE, don't buy it. Many magazines have reviewed Windows 98 and say that nothing signifigant has changed since the release of Windows 95, the only big change will be an easier multimedia (since MMX came out a little while ago) Windows 98 will also work better with higher speed processors i.e. 300 mhz+ processors.. That's about it... Talk to you later, J ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:19:39 -0500 (EST) From: Damon Fibraio To: "Carlo D'Angelo" Subject: Re: DT in PC World!?!?!? Message-ID: For some of us who are in the process of learning Windows 95 and can't really get their web browser running, or translated, are just too lazy to check, can you send me the gyst of this reference to PC World? Reach Damon Fibraio at email_address_removed keyboardist, vocalist, radio personality Deviant of Reality All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer by the stars All of us do time in the gutter, dreamers turn to look at the cars. Neil Peart of Rush ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:37:06 -0500 (EST) From: Albert Balkiewicz To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: printouts of the jam Message-ID: > > > Albert, > Thanks for the suggestion, I think you're fully right ! > I'm planing to do them with Chad and we're about to start. > > Daniel Bonatti > > > Ok, before the rest of the'Jam gets on my ass for suggesting it. Here's my thoughts on why I said what I did. Mike's on tour now, so I don't know wexactly how much free time he has. I gather it's really not that much. Anyway, I'm just saying to filter out the arguments between people and BS like that. Talk and opinions about shows, CD reviews, opinions/recommendations of other bands, parodies, jokes, anything like that is fine. Just taking out the petty arguments between individuals is what I meant.... The last thing I would want is Mike reading through the first 4 pages of the Jam and saying "What the fuck is this?" and giving up. -Al ^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^ email: email_address_removed email_address_removed HOMEPAGE:http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/9280/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:34:32 -0600 From: "Ryan Whitaker" To: Subject: 'watchful.eye' is open for orders! Message-ID: <19971103213644.AAA6625@hombre> 'watchful.eye', my Rush MP3 compilation album, is open for ordering! This awesome disc contains 'Mirrors', 'Animated', 'Critical Mass', 'La Villa Strangiato', 'Mystic Dreams', and 'A Right to Passage', all considered greats in the Rush bootleg field. The liner is completely done now and has been taken to the printer. I have pictures of the front and back covers up on the page, so please check them out. They look awesome. =) Also still available are 'Seven Wonders' and 'Spinning Years', the two Dream Theater compilation discs. 'Caught in Amsterdam '97' is and will always be available for replication. For information on all these discs, please visit: http://www.geocities.com/soho/2236 Take care! Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 16:05:10 -0500 From: "Christopher R. Merlo" To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Apocaplyptica / Opeth Message-ID: > Well, Rogerio quoted his aunt saying 'are you listening to this non-technical popular > music again?' or something along that lines... > > She wasn't saying that it was too loud or such things that some other may say...her > comment was regarding the technicality and complexity of the song (what song was it, > btw?) which is lower than classical compositions' complexity and technicality. Agreed. But I'd be willing to bet (if she's anything like my father) that she heard electric guitars and made an assumption about the music without really giving it a chance. I would even go so far as to say that (again, if she's like Dad) the very sound of an electric guitar (especially with those scooped-out mids :) gives her a headache. However, the sweet sounds of a cello are soothing and familiar. I ought to try Apocalyptica on Dad, now that I think of it. It's strange, but the very simple difference in instrumentation would be enough for him to at least give it a fair listen. Once that happens, Dad (and Rogerio's aunt) might discover something about the compositions. And, like I said, that's the perfect time to hit them with the original and say "I told you so!" > Ok, I take that back...I meant to say that they don't show their compositional > skills, thus making musicians who compose music and have the guts to put it > out, instead of taking the safe path of playing other people's composition, are > superior to them. I think it's safe to assume that the goal of the entire project - perhaps even the reason these four cellists came together - was to play Metallica songs. I doubt that they consciously decided "Hey, we suck as writers, let's do someone else's songs." Rather, I think it was probably a matter of "Damn, I love this Puppets album. Hmm, I bet I could do this riff on the cello... Hey, I wonder how this would sound if... [pick up phone]" > > I suppose you feel that DT should never do cover songs, because it doesn't > > exploit their compositional skills. > > I will not buy a DT album solely made up of cover songs. Can I have your Christmas CD then? > > > Do you want to hear metallica played on cellos? > > > > Yeah, maybe I do. > > As I said, that's what MIDI files are for... Blecch. MIDI's a wonderful thing, but it's a tool. Just as you can't live in a hammer, you can't (or, at least, I can't) listen to MIDI files as a replacement for music. There are too many variables - that are meant to be variables - in live performance. (Hence why I dislike this techno movement. "All this machinery making modern music...") > Also, classical musicians who play other people's music may make their own > interpretation of it and in fact change it. This is not the case with > Apocalyptica. I would disagree. I think that Apocalyptica is perhaps the most original interpretation I've heard of Metallica's music. Far more so than the kids in the garage down the block. (OK, they had a different interpretation, but not on purpose. They just sucked. :) > Also, as metallica's stuff is not very complex, it would not be hard to figure > out how to play it on different instruments. Whether it's "not very complex" is a debate I'd probably rather not see. :) But I think you'll agree that compositionally, it *is* rather complex. I don't know if you've ever tried to get a rock band to play something like "Puppets" or "To Live Is To Die/Dyer's Eve" all the way through, but it's tough. There's a time change around every corner. I've always had a drummer (of variable quality) to at least keep time through that mess. Try it without one, and without a singer to keep track of which verse you're on, etc... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough email_address_removed "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates email_address_removed /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Maintainer of the Official Dream Theater Frequently Asked Questions List http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/dtfaq.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 16:53:04 -0500 From: Dave To: email_address_removed Subject: misheard Message-ID: > Can't let them rape me again > Your venom's not venomy here > won't let them fill me with > feather-lipstick rubber maids... ROFL!!! I always hear "Wont let them fill me with fodder less than robin eggs..." hehehe buster http://users1.ee.net/buster/ http://www.dhpc.com/ryche/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 17:03:18 -0500 (EST) From: Lars Hellsten To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3194 Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Nov 1997 email_address_removed wrote: > Ok, I take that back...I meant to say that they don't show their compositional > skills, thus making musicians who compose music and have the guts to put it > out, instead of taking the safe path of playing other people's composition, are > superior to them. How on earth does that make them inferior musicians? You just implied that you haven't heard any original compositions by them, yet you claim they're inferior composers... > Also, Apocalyptica didn't add anything to the songs besides changing the > instruments. Perhaps using different instruments is all they WANTED to add to the songs? Certainly they had to do a fair bit of work on the arrangements. > > > Do you want to hear metallica played on cellos? > > Yeah, maybe I do. > As I said, that's what MIDI files are for... Oh yeah, that's a really good idea. BTW, on a typical person's sound card (or even a really good sound card) with a typical sequencing of the music, a MIDI file wouldn't sound nearly the same. > I'd have more respect to people who compose their own music. So you respect the musicianship of the members of Green Day more than you respect the musicianship of the members of a symphony orchestra? > Also, classical musicians who play other people's music may make their own > interpretation of it and in fact change it. This is not the case with > Apocalyptica. Wow, that's an incredibly strong argument. I'm totally on your side now. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 21:07:25 +0000 From: Jon Parmet To: email_address_removed Message-ID: > I will not buy a DT album solely made up of cover songs. Good thing ACOS had ACOS on it, then, or else you would have missed out on hearing some great covers :) -- *------------*----------------------------*--------------* | Jon Parmet | email_address_removed | 617-494-2851 | *------------*----------------------------*--------------* "The Apollo Guidance Computer was primitive by any modern comparison having but 72 kilobytes of ROM and 4 kilobytes of RAM" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 13:01:14 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W. Cashman" To: email_address_removed Subject: Chicago trip/show Part II Message-ID: Part II: DT were, simply stated, stupendous. I didn't notice many major flaws; James' voice seemed back on track (difficult to judge for sure, since we were almost too close to hear him). Audience was VERY enthusiastic but well-behaved, no crowd surfing (what joy!) and little if any moshing (hard to tell, maybe some during "PMU" judging from a bit of crowd surge). This was one of the best features of the show. Unlike Birch Hell, I wasn't fearing for my life. :) Myung on the Stick, wow. Petrucci on one knee right in front of us, close as life. Wow. Derek making love to his keyboards. Wow. ("Was it as good for him as it was for us?":)) Nice lava lamps, optical fiber "planters" and TV space-helmet, too. We're so close to the stage (no barricade, indeed no stage security at all) that James could be stepping on our fingers if we're not paying attention. Wow. (Caution; his mike stand can be a deadly weapon, as Wes almost found out!) Wes proudly displayed his borrowed Trey Allen-issue YtseCon shirt with "ytsejam" on the front and Portnoy gives him a grin and a thumbs-up. Hand Punishment I: My right hand is still aching from tapping madly along with every song on the front of the stage. :) James' megaphone appeared to work, hooray. Everyone seemed to be having a great time on stage, too! 'Twas great, too, to hear the, err, "Spastik Children version" of Deep Purple's "Perfect Strangers," even if James forgot the words. They were having so much FUN. :) After their set finally ended we were all swingin' along to the Lounge Version of "UaGM." Pat/Gabbo and his friend had passes and got backstage, but no-one else could; after a while they eventually kicked everyone else out, even Irene (the rat-bastards!). This was the only real disappointment of the trip. Madsman's after-show gathering was planned for a restaurant near Wrigley Field, but we skipped out with REAL regret as it was late, we were all walking wounded at this point (ears ringing, feet and ankles protesting, hand aching, throats dry from singing along, and desperately seeking an open restroom), and my flight was leaving at 9:10am Sunday. Damn...... After grabbing two hours' sleep (turned out Wes, a "non-rev" standby passenger, had to take an even earlier flight than me), we made our long way back to O'Hare for our flights home. The older guy seated next to me on the 727, completely by chance, turns out to be Samuel R. Delaney, one of the world's legendary SF writers (whereas I've only been published once), so the biggest surprise of the trip was saved for last! We "talked shop" for about half the journey back, which was really cool. Foot Punishment III: back in Atlanta I changed into my Rennaissance costume at the airport and drove down to the Renn. Faire here, since it was the very last day of the Fall Faire and I wanted to see many friends there before they journeyed off to their "winter quarters" in various parts of the country (I've worked there many a season selling swords; see www.starfireswords.com). Great, more walking! Hand Punishment II: Afterwards, I went to the traditional post-Faire gathering and drum-jam, which was hella fun. Due to the chill of November it was held inside at the restaurant instead of the outside deck, so we didn't get to echo the call of the drums around the supermarket parking lot like usual. :) We had about twenty drums in the circle including my doumbek, which was cool, but ouch! My hands hurt now even more! Alas and damnit, I had to leave early at 1 a.m. for work at 7:30 on Monday. What a long, strange trip it'd been, but damn, we had a great time! :) -- +-- ...once the cloud that's raining ---+- Paul W. Cashman ---+ | over your head / disappears | email_address_removed | | the noise that you hear | www.crl.com/~vanyel | +--is the crashing down of Hollow Years.... --+---- ICQ #4151223 -----+ ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 3195 **************************