YTSEJAM Digest 3190 Today's Topics: 1) printouts of the jam by Daniel Bonatti 2) Apocalyptica = corporate whores by Seroussi 3) Homer and the Classical Greek Poems by George Tryfonas 4) bathing your soul in silver tears by Anna & Heike Boedeker 5) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3188 by "Todd O. Klindt" 6) some prog CDs at Newbury Comics by Michael Burstin 7) This mailing list is very funny... by Rogerio Brito 8) random answers by ALI ABBAS 9) hollow years video... & more stuff... by Santiago Leon 10) Re: Technical stuff?? (Partial DTC here) by Shai Yallin 11) replies, *CONCERT SPOILER* (sorta) by Madelaine ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 03:40:09 -0800 (PST) From: Daniel Bonatti To: email_address_removed Subject: printouts of the jam Message-ID: Albert, Thanks for the suggestion, I think you're fully right ! I'm planing to do them with Chad and we're about to start. Daniel Bonatti _____________________________________________________________________ Sent by Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 13:29:01 +0100 From: Seroussi To: email_address_removed Subject: Apocalyptica = corporate whores Message-ID: <345C720D.305160AA@algonet.se> > From: "Christopher R. Merlo" > Subject: Re: Technical stuff?? (Partial DTC here) > > > She is very antipatic and one time, when I was listening to some > > Metallica, she told me "So, is this non-technical noise that you call > > This one's an easy one. Pick up "Apocalyptica", that album by the four > cellists playing Metallica songs. She'll be able to listen with a (more) open > mind, probably, because of the instrumentation. Don't tell her what it is, > and see what she gets out of it. Then, if she likes it, play the Metallica > versions, and see where you get. Please enlighten us all and tell us how playing something on different instruments make it more technical and complex. Also, DON'T SUPPORT APOCALYPTICA! Apocalyptica is a band made of people with no compositional skills. Do you want to hear metallica played on cellos? Make a midi file and change the instruments, putting cellos instead of the guitars, drums and vocals. >From what I've heard, Apocalyptica is going to put out another album solely made of cover versions of other's people work. They won't put out their own material, because they know it won't sell as much. There are lots of artists and composers out there that deserve support, Apocalyptica is not one of them, as they won't compose their own stuff and lean on the success of others. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 13:42:51 +0000 (GMT) From: George Tryfonas To: email_address_removed Subject: Homer and the Classical Greek Poems Message-ID: Just thought that I'd correct some of the stuff said on the list, since Homer and I come from the same country :) The stories of the Iliad and the Odyssey are not exactly fairy-tales. The war of Troy actually DID happen, and all the people mentioned in the Iliad (except for the Greek Gods, obviously) have actually existed. The war of Troy happened about 400 years before Homer decided to compose a poem concerning it. His version of the war was quite spiced up. In the same manner, Ulysses actually existed, but... geez! He never came across any sirens or any witches on his way back home. Granted, he had a bad journey, but not THAT bad. BTW, there is some dispute going on during the recent years. The Iliad and the Odyssey are quite different in style -- the Iliad is very descriptive in its battle scenes... very violent. The Odyssey is not so "crude". So people think that maybe they were written by two different people, one of them being Homer, who took credit for both. Finally, Homer couldn't write because he was blind, not illiterate. That's all, folks! ********************************************************************** | George Tryfonas | God give me the power to take breath | | CSE 1st Year | from a breeze, and call life from a cold | | Univeristy of Kent | metal frame | | Canterbury, UK | - Kevin Moore, Dream Theater | ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 15:40:36 +0100 From: Anna & Heike Boedeker To: email_address_removed Subject: bathing your soul in silver tears Message-ID: .. Ern ... >DT Mondegreen of the day: "Now they breed my mind on the radio" Sad but true... IROTFLMAO :-) .. Nigel Bridgeman ... >Just a question... who the hell are Inferno? Am I that stupid an untrained >musician that I'm the only one who hasn't heard of them? I've heard of >Crimson Glory... wouldn't recognise them if I came across them in the >street though... I think I've come across the names before, but don't remember the music... what about compiling a list of recommended listenings? To make a start my recommendations except for the indespensable DT, FW & Rush would be Threshold, Madsword, Mayadome, Sadist, Psyco Drama, Watchtower, Manitou, Sadist, Annon Vin, Mindfeed, King Crimson... anyone else? >Does anyone actually have a clue what Under a Glass Moon is about? It's >not in the FAQ (just checked). I think it's just a description of a particular emotional experience, which is very colorful IMHO... it has something of a romantic scene to it, well not just romance but real love, but also some pain & bitterness mingled under. It doesn't like transcend itself into something bigger but captures this sepecific emotion quite intensely... almost a raga like (in fact they also write short poems and do paintings to express these particular emotions) quality :-) It may be overinterpreted, but on the other hand, why shouldn't a genius like JP be able to write this in his car driving through a rainy night? :-) .. Josh ... >to continue this religous non-religion thread, I think one might say that >lots of metal in general has a sort of subtle christian overtone. Like >in operation mindcrime, which is a not-so-subtle example. it's almost as >though the "weight" that a metal band probably wants to achieve is related >to the weight of religion, in it's power and sacredness, for those who may >or may not believe, either which way, I'm not taking sides there! Hmmm... at times I have this impression, too... >Iron Maiden is a good example too. Hallowed be thy name...Rime of the Ancient >Mariner...in fact, the name "Iron Maiden" refers to a device used by >medieval toughies...To me, medieval is synonymous w/catholic. Yeah, or w/paganism... but it's a form of paganism that had to defend itself against esp. Catholicism, so there are also references ex negative to it... It then obviously culminated into this Satanistic, Blackmetal etc. stuff... >then there's the names, like Ministry, Metal Church...album covers, i.e.Master Testament, Disbelief... :-) Yep, they're legions... >of Puppets and IM's Live after Death(both graveyards w/plenty of crosses). Yet it's not necessarily religious in the narrower sense as it's also a symbol for death, or also violent experiences, existential threats... I mean some of us have been put through a lot of shit and really have reason to express extremely aggressive emotions against parents, society, the political class etc. etc. ... .. Rich ... >> If you heard something like ragas, what were mentioned before in this >> discussion, >> I bet you couldn't tell what emotion the performers were thinking of. > >Aw, man! I write the most beautiful paragraph in my life and someone >contradicts it? That sucks. Here's my rebuttal: That is why one needs >to study all types of music, so that one can learn what emotion the ragas >are expressing. As I remember it, the person who posted about ragas >stated that understanding them required years of study. . .I think that >was my point. I wonder if the people who do ragas (insert term for said >people, which I have forgotten, and probably hopelessly offended someone >by doing) can write or read music in any way. . . Yep... as I said they mostly use notation for theoretical and composing purposes, though, less for the actual performance which is largely improvised, though there are very strict rules how to approach it. The notation is based on the abbreviations of the names of the notes (Sa Ri Ga Ma Pa Dha Ni), likewise w/the syllables encoding specific drum strokes (let's spare ourselves getting into details here). The traditional Indian approach is that sons of musicians (the same applies to sons of priest or whatever) get into the business, or at least training very early... so at the time they're young adults they already have considerable experience. But that doesn't imply that one as an adult could pick up all this stuff considerably faster. Basically I think if you really want to learn from it you should pick up a real sitar (not one of those guitars w/modified bridge and some sympathetic strings added as they're totally unsuited to play microintervals; if you have a violin at home you can give it a shot w/it, though, but tune it in forths!!) and enjoy the enriching experience of learning "something else". You can teach a lot of it to yourself by using Manfred Junius vademecum ("The Sitar: the instrument and its technique"). You'll later still have enough time to make your own synthesis of both worlds (e.g. I have developed a maqaam-derived "register" approach to improvisation, I've also used quarter and third tones on fretless [and this w/out ever having come across Mick Karn until last year], but these days I mostly play a fretted six string [as more appropriate for a JM fan :-)]). >Oh yeah. . I was gonna let this one slip by, but I have to say something >because I feel Homer is being unjustly credited with stuff... Yes, major >NDTC, but my sister was a classics major, and I could see her rolling >around in her grave (she's not really dead, but if she was, that's what >she would do). As I remember (from high school english class), Homer did >not actually write the Oddessy. . the stories of the oddessy, and the >illiad (and most other major greek stories out there) have been carried >down through the generations by verbal tellings. Since before Homer, >people have been telling the Oddessy. Homer was simply the one to compile >all the stories (I guess literature isn't so far away from comp sci) into That's what my gf always states... she's a database developer while I'm a natural language hacker :-) >one massive collection, which we know as the oddessy. Where it goes from >there (like, what kind of sicko would remember the whole Illiad and keep >on telling it until someone decided to write it down) is beyond me.. . You're absolutely right... But indeed this is what many oral literatures are like, e.g. up to the day also Indian religious literature in the view of Brahmins (priests) primarily is transmitted orally (I can reassure you that my teacher Aithal really knew this stuff by heart), writing it down is only considered a means to assist this. But then not all of oral literature is like this, e.g. *performances* of American Native literatures are largely improvised, like they had just some imaginary leadsheet :-) Best, Heike ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 08:58:01 -0600 From: "Todd O. Klindt" To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3188 Message-ID: > I spent a couple of week in Amsterdam last month and most of the CDs I > bought were 39.95 guilders. Cut that in half and that's the price in > dollars. It was worth it though, I was able to pick up a few copies > of 'Wake of Magellan' for a couple of friends of mine. It's really a > pity that an Iowa boy has to go to Holland to buy a CD from a Florida > band. A friend of mine works at Musicland here in Ames (His name's > Jared, look him up). He was one of the folks I got the Savatage CD > for. He immediately called the Atlantic rep to see when it would be > coming out in the states. She said January or February if at all. > Bummer. Gotta go. I have to drive to Minneapolis to see OFB. > Yippee!! todd On Sat, 1 Nov 1997, Toni Maki wrote: > Mark: > > >Don't ever move to Holland, 'cuz new CD's cost about $21 >over > here. > > > > You... You lucky bastard!! In Finland new cd's are from 22$ to 25$ > :( > > Not much different from here in Brazil: the CDs from national > artists can be bought for as little as $10 (Gerasamba, E' o Tchan, > Claudinho & Buchecha), but the other CDs cost as high as $22 - $25. > > Oh, and Angra CDs are expensive here too. :-( > > > Toni > > []s, Roger... > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 10:51:15 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Burstin To: email_address_removed (Ytsejam Mailing List) Subject: some prog CDs at Newbury Comics Message-ID: Just wanted to let some people up in the Boston area know (for those not on the Boston list as well) that Newbury Comics has a nice little sale going on, w/ $3 off almost all CDs $12.99 and up, and when I went in to the one in Burlington, found some stuff like Shadow Gallery's Carved In Stone (listening to it now for the first time, sounds pretty good), Savatage's Dead Winter Dead, and they even had the Rudess Morgenstein Project... (was looking for it in the R sections, couldn't find it, said semi-loud to my friends across the store that we would have to stop at Tower Records next door... a worker took offense to that, and was determined to find it... and did, somewhere in the middle of misc. M sections...) That CD is amazing... definatly seems to be a distinct difference between what Rudess writes and what Morgenstein writes... Also, Newbury's had a whole lot of the Rush remastered CDs for $7.99. Should have similar selection at all Newbury's... -- +------------------------------------------+-----------------------+ | A daily dose of eMpTyV | Dream Theater | | will flush you mind right down the drain | Falling Into Infinity | | --- taken from: Just Let Me Breathe --- | In Stores NOW!! | +------------------------------------------+-----------------------+ Michael Burstin: email_address_removed Oh my God, they've killed Kenny!! http://www.cs.brandeis.edu/~mikeb/ Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email: http://www.cauce.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 14:10:57 -0200 (EDT) From: Rogerio Brito To: email_address_removed Subject: This mailing list is very funny... Message-ID: Well, I just got a lot of e-mails from this list after I woke this morning and the first of them was D-man telling us "Let's not discuss religion". Then a 50% of the posts are just about religion. Don't you guys think it is funny? :-) Man, I'll never unsubscribe from this list. It is hilarious. :-) []s, Roger... -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - email_address_removed.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html "Life is ours, we live it our way (...) / And nothing else matters" James Hetfield (Metallica), Nothing Else Matters =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 16:12:10 +0000 (GMT) From: ALI ABBAS To: email_address_removed Subject: random answers Message-ID: just some comments on richard b.'s post: 1) you're absolutely right about Homer being a compiler of folk-tales rather than a writer. i did some ancient lit. in college and it isn't really an established fact that he even existed. it's quite probable that he is a legend himself. 2) i've done a year of training in ragas and can't read music one bit. however, (wrt the music reading thread) i must say that it is a disadvantage at times. BTW, and this should really interest you jammers, i'm in touch with some of the greatest classical indian musicians and (with just one exception) all of them love DT when they hear it. they don't know the band (surprise,surprise!) but are really knocked out by the obvious talent they see. particular favourites are TtT, surrounded, 6 o'clock, light fuse... & the silent man. gotta go but i'll be Bach. -'raga'muffin/'raga'dude abbas p.s.- U.K. jammers going for the london gig, where are you?! private mail. i'll be waiting. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 11:26:55 -0500 From: Santiago Leon To: DT freaks Subject: hollow years video... & more stuff... Message-ID: how is going ytsejammers?... just wanted to let you know that i asked john petrucci about the video for hollow years and he said that they had some trouble with the tape (film, whatever) so they were not able to finish it.. he said that they will try to finish it when they go o canada again for th mini-tour... Gorge wrote: > > I think that what happened is not due to the fact that the second > person could read music and the first couldn't, but because the first > person could not PLAY music. Without being able to play an instrument, > one cannot easily understand how complex and plainly difficult a song > may be, nor see a band's great talent. It has happened to me lots of > times, knowing people who could play an instrument and say "Wow, these > people are cool! So complex and difficult..." where others who don't > play music had no special comment to make... just that "it's ok". yeah, that's what i meant... i didn't mean to say that because she could READ music, she understood DT better... what i mant to say was exactly what you are saying... that someone that plays an instrument is much more likely to appreciate the inmense talent of OFB... of course, the exceptions confirm the rule... on another topic... i think the guy that's going to print out the jam should filter some stuff... tell me something.. what would you rather read 1000 pages or 500???... the guys are on tour... they have shit load of stuff to do... we will be lucky if MP has 15 minutes a day to read the 'jam... later... -- +---------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | | And I'll smile and I'll learn to pretend| | Santiago A. León | And I'll never be open again | | email_address_removed | And I'll have no more dreams to defend | | | And I'll never be open again | | | Kevin Moore, Dream Theater | +---------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 18:17:24 +0200 From: Shai Yallin To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Technical stuff?? (Partial DTC here) Message-ID: Rogerio Brito wrote: > > Hi, people... > > Well, since that acoustic tape I asked recommendations for, I > actually converted some people into progressive rock and heavy metal. And > here comes me again looking for more recommendations from the list. But > now I want something a little harder. I have an aunt that teaches piano > and is *completely* biased against "popular music". You know that I know > nothing about music theory (I've said this a couple of times here in this > list) so I'm asking your help. > > She is very antipatic and one time, when I was listening to some > Metallica, she told me "So, is this non-technical noise that you call > music? Popular music is simply this. You can't even compare this to > Beethoven's 'Emperor' or Mozart's 'Jupiter', which are much more subtle > and also require a lot of technical training to be able to fully > appreciate these masterpieces." > > Of course, she is indeed right to an extent, but I'd like to make > her swallow her own words, showing her some popular but highly technical > stuff. Could you, musicians of Ytsejam, please tell me what are the most > hard-to-play popular music that you know (I've heard that Zappa has some > songs that are almost impossible to play, but I don't know any of his > works)? I don't know, should I show her Metropolis part I or is it too > easy for a piano teacher? > > Thank you very much for your recommendations, Roger... Here's what I can think about: >From WDADU: - YTSEJAM (My piano teacher freaked out when he heard the key solo) - OAMOT (Same as above) >From IAW: - TTT - Metropolis I - WFS into LTL (After my teacher heard Metropolis he bought the CD...) Make sure that she understands where Moore plays the solo... most ppl think it's a guitar... >From FII: - LITS - TOT esp. the key solo Other stuff: - Shadow Gallery's "Ghost Ship", esp. the piano track (18 I think) - ELP (find some crazy Emmerson solo - I'm nod that familiar with 'em) - Zappa has some crazy shit indeed... - Steve Vai's Fire Garden Suite (including Bangkok or however you write this word) Only problem is, this ain't popular music. It's what you listen to, so she assumes it's popular. The same happened with my parents... Hope this helps... -- Shai Yallin - Kurush on #YTSEJAM "I'm American, honey. Our names don't mean shit." - Bruce Willis on Pulp Fiction "How can you keep your head and not go insane when the only light at the end of the tunnel is another train" - Mike Portnoy Visit my home page at http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palladium/3247 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 10:58:27 -0600 From: Madelaine To: email_address_removed Subject: replies, *CONCERT SPOILER* (sorta) Message-ID: >Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 19:58:31 -0500 (EST) >From: Albert Balkiewicz >Subject: printpouts of the jam > > I sugg3est to whoever prints out the jams for Mr. Portnoy, > to kindas filter out the stupidity and flamewars.... Why?? If Portnoy reads this stuff on his own computer while at home, he shouldn't be shocked by what goes on here! :) Yes, I agree, it would be annoying to read thru 200+ pages of nothing but flames, but that's what all of us do... >From: Bert Baldwin >Subject: Ummm... > >Clark and Chris... please take your argument to private mail. Either that >or shut the fuck up. > > -- Bert Baldwin > > email_address_removed Thank you, Doctor Denis Leary. Seriously, you're just contributing to bandwith overload. It might have been nice to include some vague DT/band/happy story content, rather than a one (or one & 1/2) liner... Now, on to the... __________________________*****CONCERT SPOILER*****__________________________ Went to the Chicago show last night. I'll let the rest of the *many* jammers who were there put the actual setlist, etc. I'm going to talk about the show from the point of view of a 5 foot tall female, which I just happen to be. BIG WRECK: If you haven't seen DT yet, and you're planning to, provide some justice for us Chicago show people. These people were complete jerks to the crowd. For example, during their set, the guitarist changed his guitar *for every fookin' song*!! And _someone_ in the audience yelled a comment on that... The singer replied with "Well, when you play *mumble mumble* have to retune *mumble mumble*" Or something like that. Maybe five minutes later, they guy cracked open a beer while they were about to start another song, and some guy in the crowd yelled "BUDWEISER!" And this was the singer's response: "Hey, *mumble mumble* so that's why we're up here and YOU'RE NOT!!" Jerk. I hope when DT comes thru again on tour, they ditch this bunch of freaks and find someone who complements their style. And respects the fans. The show was at House of Blues Chicago, which I had never been to. Nice place, semi-nice employees. More on that later... The stage (which I was right in front of) was about 4'10" high (leading to bad neck pains for me) but was hollow for maybe the bottom two feet and covered with canvas or something. Before the show I was puzzled...but I soon learned why that was there. It was for people to duck and hide every time James LaBrie came to the front of the stage and tried to take out some 'jammers with the base of his mic stand. I believe he hit Gabbo once... Fair warning, then, to everyone who plans on being in the front row: along with earplugs, wear protective head and face gear! The fashion sense was amazing. :) James LaBrie and John Myung in tight leather pants. :) There was a little too much *ahem* makeup on stage, though... :) Derek wore some kind of yellow-lensed blue-blocker sunglasses on his head and metallic purple velvet pants. Petrucci and Portnoy decided to dress comfortably. Oh, we got John Myung to speak!! He said "Excuse me" to Chris!! Thought that might shock the community... The show was top-notch, tight, spectacular, with a "post-Halloween" surprise at the end. :) Let's just say that if you missed Chicago, you missed a lot. Well, that's about it for my end of the "spoiler"... A special "Howdy" goes out to Irene, Gabbo/Pat, Debbie, Bruce, Steve, and all the other jammers out there whose names I can't quite remember now. (hey, I got like 4 hours of sleep!) You guys rock!! -Maddy ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 3190 **************************