YTSEJAM Digest 3189 Today's Topics: 1) Operation: Portnoy by Chad Allen Klunck 2) Re: Technical stuff?? (Partial DTC here) by email_address_removed (Ernesto Schnack) 3) Mumblings and Jumblings by Nigel Bridgeman 4) Days of the New, Creed by "Matthew Lamoureux" 5) Re: Mumblings and Jumblings by email_address_removed (Ernesto Schnack) 6) DT and Religion by alistair young 7) I'm going to see DT by "John Smith" 8) filtering for portnoy by email_address_removed 9) metal and religion by email_address_removed 10) Re: REVIEW: Big Wreck "In Loving Memory Of" by Cappy 11) Random stuff by Richard Banister 12) Peart's Training... by Luke 13) OPETH by Luke 14) Michael Hedges, Attn, MA jammers. .. by Richard Banister 15) rhythms*(sex+religion) by Anna & Heike Boedeker ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 21:22:58 -0600 From: Chad Allen Klunck To: The Jam to End All Jams Subject: Operation: Portnoy Message-ID: > I sugg3est to whoever prints out the jams for Mr. Portnoy, > to kindas filter out the stupidity and flamewars.... > Just a suggestion so that he can look through the reviews, > commentary, jokey stuff and all that... I dunno...I thought about this one, and I'm not really sure. On the surface, it seems like an excellent idea...give him what he wants to know, instead of killing 2 trees for every 1 that happens to contain ink worthy of reading. On the other hand, why not give him/them the unmolested view of the list in its current state? I know it's not glorious nor sexy, but hey, it might give people incentive to quit their griping if they know that the band is gonna see their drivel. (Not that this is a form of ex post facto censorship or anything... :) Chad ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 22:26:25 -0500 From: email_address_removed (Ernesto Schnack) To: Subject: Re: Technical stuff?? (Partial DTC here) Message-ID: > now I want something a little harder. I have an aunt that teaches piano > and is *completely* biased against "popular music". You know that I know > nothing about music theory (I've said this a couple of times here in this > list) so I'm asking your help. > Well, you should definitely let her listen LtL...Metropolis, I'm not so sure, it definitely shows that the guys are technically proficient, but she might find it too crazy...but what the hell, what can you lose?:) Also, Carolina IV might open her ears...esp, the middle section, where they change from Brazilian music to classical..I love that:) And why not all the Angra songs that have parts from classical pieces like 'Angel's Cry'...that might open her ears. Just some thoughts Oh and about Just Let Me Breed. Distasteful? yeah. Immature? yeah Funny? Hell Yeah! :) One of the better parodies so far...which reminds me of a misheard lyric (which by the way, are called 'Mondegreens'...found that out the other day) DT Mondegreen of the day: "Now they breed my mind on the radio" Ern ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 14:52:29 +1000 From: Nigel Bridgeman To: email_address_removed Subject: Mumblings and Jumblings Message-ID: Hiyis Ryanne wrote: >Just a quick subscription letter refresher: > > Welcome to YTSEJAM, the Dream Theater mailing list! This list > is for fans of Dream Theater, and will discuss them and any > related topics. (Related topics include other progressive > metal bands like Fates Warning, King's X, Crimson Glory, > Inferno, etc.) Just a question... who the hell are Inferno? Am I that stupid an untrained musician that I'm the only one who hasn't heard of them? I've heard of Crimson Glory... wouldn't recognise them if I came across them in the street though... Which reminds me of an age-old joke I just remembered: Q: What do you do if you come across an elephant in the jungle? A: Wipe it off and say sorry. Told you it was old. --- Dan wrote: >um.. that was *gross*... and immature...IMO. > >i know it was just a parody, but funnier things could have been made up >than that... Try it then :) What is immaturity, if not maturity with 'im' in front of it? Yep, that's the most profound thing I have *ever* said... --- Toni wrote: >>Don't ever move to Holland, 'cuz new CD's cost about $21 >over here. > >You... You lucky bastard!! In Finland new cd's are from 22$ to 25$ :( Pah. Your average CD in Australia is $30. Beat *that*. Sure, that's Australian dollars, but that's irrelevant. Still $10 too much. --- Richard Banister broke the three minute mile when he wrote: >Well, D-man has spoken. I know as well from personal experience how testy >people can become about religion. . . and yet, I keep asking the >questions! Private email, anyone? It seems that people here get testy about anything. From now on, we can only talk about ping pong! --- Al wrote: > I sugg3est to whoever prints out the jams for Mr. Portnoy, > to kindas filter out the stupidity and flamewars.... > > Just a suggestion so that he can look through the reviews, > commentary, jokey stuff and all that... Keep the parodies. Definately keep the parodies. Without a shadow of a doubt, keep the parodies. --- D-Man wrote: >Those of you that are inclined to carry this discussion on in private e-mail, >go for it. For some people (myself included occasionally), this is an >important thing to discuss with other people. Just please don't do it on the >Jam. Thanks. It seems most of the people here undoubtedly wonder to themselves, 'private e-mail? What's that?' --- Aaron disclaimed: >*** DISCLAIMER: This is not an attempt to start a religious discussion; I am >replying to a queestion brought up in an eariler 'jam *** Yeah. >"Night awaits the Lamb's arrival..." -UaGM > >The "Lamb" refers to Christ in His second coming (if that's what you believe) Does anyone actually have a clue what Under a Glass Moon is about? It's not in the FAQ (just checked). >"There are no answers from voices above..." -TTT > >Obviously not religious, or possibly Buddhist. 'There are no answers from voices above' - higher up in the music industry? The men in suits, perhaps? I dunno.... Well, that is all from me for this edition. See y'all later! Love Spiff Nigel Bridgeman (email_address_removed.au) The Movie Pages - a movie page: http://www.powerup.com.au/~nigelb/movies ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 20:55:05 PST From: "Matthew Lamoureux" To: email_address_removed Subject: Days of the New, Creed Message-ID: Here are two new bands worth a look (non-prog). They're getting alot of airplay in the Boston area. I'm no judge of musicianship, though: DAYS OF THE NEW (Self-titled): Debut album - kicks butt! All acoustic - but heavy enough so you won't notice the absence of plug-ins. CREED - My Own Prison: Christian-influenced heavy rock. The songwriting is some of the best I've heard in a long time. Definitely a Top-5 album of '97, IMHO. I hope you like them! Let me know either way - I'm curious to see how they are critiqued by fellow musicians. - Matt E-MAIL: email_address_removed WEBSITE: http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/matt_l IRC: Swordsman QUOTE: "Angel in our pocket, Devil by our side... It's time to be immortal, 'cause heroes never die!" - adapded from Megadeth's 'Blood of Heroes' ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 00:13:05 -0500 From: email_address_removed (Ernesto Schnack) To: Subject: Re: Mumblings and Jumblings Message-ID: > Does anyone actually have a clue what Under a Glass Moon is about? It's > not in the FAQ (just checked). Well, on the first jam i ever got, Bafu reviewed one of the HftH shows (THE most hilarious post I've read in my life) and apparently asked JP. If i remember correctly, he had to write lyrics so he went into his car at night, and it was raining, so he just kinda wrote on his impression of that...but that was 2 yrs ago, i dont remember that well. Ern ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 21:39:18 -0800 From: alistair young To: email_address_removed Subject: DT and Religion Message-ID: This message is in response to one I read on ytsejam regarding DT's "christian" lyrics. I don't know what the guy's beliefs are, but I do think they have a lot of questions and a spiritual interest. More later.... Alistair. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 22:00:57 PST From: "John Smith" To: email_address_removed Subject: I'm going to see DT Message-ID: Im going to see Dream Theater at the Galaxy Theatre on Nov. 9 1997 fuck ya http://www1.iwvisp.com/mclarry is my pages new address check it out ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 01:18:04 -0500 (EST) From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: filtering for portnoy Message-ID: interesting concept, but...I think he probably knows about the flame wars and all that stuff, he's a frequent reader. He can take it. josh email_address_removed ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 01:30:59 -0500 (EST) From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: metal and religion Message-ID: to continue this religous non-religion thread, I think one might say that lots of metal in general has a sort of subtle christian overtone. Like in operation mindcrime, which is a not-so-subtle example. it's almost as though the "weight" that a metal band probably wants to achieve is related to the weight of religion, in it's power and sacredness, for those who may or may not believe, either which way, I'm not taking sides there! Iron Maiden is a good example too. Hallowed be thy name...Rime of the Ancient Mariner...in fact, the name "Iron Maiden" refers to a device used by medieval toughies...To me, medieval is synonymous w/catholic. If you look and DT's logo, the older one, it looks pretty spiritual to me, like it's from the heavens or something. then there's the names, like Ministry, Metal Church...album covers, i.e.Master of Puppets and IM's Live after Death(both graveyards w/plenty of crosses). anyone? josh email_address_removed ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 00:47:25 -0600 From: Cappy To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: REVIEW: Big Wreck "In Loving Memory Of" Message-ID: On Sat, Nov 01, 1997 at 06:20:57PM -0800, Christopher R. Merlo wrote: > There are two types of bands in this world: those who ought to share a stage > with Dream Theater, and those who would make an odd combination. This is not > a measure of how "good" a band is (whatever that means), just how similar to > DT they are. There are a couple of bands that would fit right in at a DT > concert (Altura and Marillion come to mind) that just don't do it for me. > Similarly, there are plenty of bands that probably wouldn't fit at a DT show > that are great bands nevertheless. Big Wreck is one of the latter. Having just come from the Chicago DT show, I can attest to this. BW was NOT a good DT opening band. And it showed by the amount of harassment they were getting from the crowd. The sound when BW was playing was crap, too, so it was hard to even hear what they were playing. Anyway, DT, as always, was kickass! Very tight and very good. The special song they played was awesome, too! (other Chicagoans know what I mean, and I'll let someone doing a complete analysis give that one out :). Lookin' forward to these guys coming back in '98! -- Mike Jones, email_address_removed __________ Cappy _________ email_address_removed Progressive Genius ( http://www.progmetal.org ) Progressive Metal Web Ring ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 02:52:25 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Banister To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Random stuff Message-ID: just thought I'd throw in my two bits. . . Clark and Chris P: I think what we're witnessing here is young love. Somehow, their affection has been transformed into some hideous negative emotion, and is really a mask for how they really feel about each other. I think they should just meet somewhere, kiss, make up, breed, whatever, and celebrate their obvious passion for one another. . . Just kidding. . . but Clark, thanks for sticking up for me (although I do think my response was a little less than polite). Rogerio: Well, I should just say that I would _hate_ to be taught piano by someone like that (no offense to your Aunt, dude). Reminds me of a discussion a while ago, about what kind of music is better, and why prog fans are so much "better" than others because their music is complex. Best not to bring that up again, but seriously. .. Who's to say what kind of music is better? We all have our tastes, and anything we don't like, we don't like. It doesn't mean it doesn't have merits. Can't we all just accept other peoples music? Can't we all just get along?!?!?! And good luck with her. .. I wish I could recommend something, but normally when someone is so set in their position, one thing isn't going to make the difference. Although, maybe if that one thing is "Learning to Live" . . . Mike Bahr and Breeding: I loved it. . what can I say. But then, sick humor like that is what I live for... Not everyone can handle it, but those who can wouldn't have it any other way.. . ;) Geddy Lee, Anthem: I think Anthems problem (especially on the Tribute) is the sparseness of it.. . look at the third chorus (I think). They leave Slaughter way out in the open, with bass, drums, and guitar just doing their own (separate) thing. . . That song is missing something, and it leaves it totally empty. Slaughters voice just can not fill up that space (and neither probably can Lee's) SDV, CRT squeal: I refrained from comment on this the first time arround, but isn't the answer much simpler? If they recorded from a TV set with a good Mic, wouldn't they also pick up the noise from the TV? I mean, all this talk about what it means. . .couldn't it just mean that DT fucked up when mixing, and didn't kill that frequency? I don't know about most dynamic ranges of microphones, so I don't know if it's possible; but if you record something that's supposed to sound like it's coming from a TV (as per SDV), it would make the most sense to capture that sound live, as opposed to direct lines out of the set. . . > here's a trick: look at a TV screen the next time you burp. It's wild,man! > Computer screens work too. look at a digital clock when you chew. . . Music appreciation/ study: > Don't get me wrong here. I'm not trying to put music studying down or > anything. > All I say is that there are exeptions to the rule. Well, my point was aimed at ideal musicians . .however, by my definition of the ideal musician, there can never be one, as the scope of music out there is unlimited. Of course their are exceptions to the rule, but the rule (and thus the exceptions) can never be proved, because there can never be an ideal musician. I guess this is all meant to lead up to: I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm kinda sick and delirious. .. I'll think about it and try to post something meaningful when I can think coherently again. . . > If you heard something like ragas, what were mentioned before in this > discussion, > I bet you couldn't tell what emotion the performers were thinking of. Aw, man! I write the most beautiful paragraph in my life and someone contradicts it? That sucks. Here's my rebuttal: That is why one needs to study all types of music, so that one can learn what emotion the ragas are expressing. As I remember it, the person who posted about ragas stated that understanding them required years of study. . .I think that was my point. I wonder if the people who do ragas (insert term for said people, which I have forgotten, and probably hopelessly offended someone by doing) can write or read music in any way. . . Oh yeah. . I was gonna let this one slip by, but I have to say something because I feel Homer is being unjustly credited with stuff... Yes, major NDTC, but my sister was a classics major, and I could see her rolling around in her grave (she's not really dead, but if she was, that's what she would do). As I remember (from high school english class), Homer did not actually write the Oddessy. . the stories of the oddessy, and the illiad (and most other major greek stories out there) have been carried down through the generations by verbal tellings. Since before Homer, people have been telling the Oddessy. Homer was simply the one to compile all the stories (I guess literature isn't so far away from comp sci) into one massive collection, which we know as the oddessy. Where it goes from there (like, what kind of sicko would remember the whole Illiad and keep on telling it until someone decided to write it down) is beyond me.. . D-man oppresses again: > I didn't mean for this to be perceived as "D-Man has spoken, so therefore this > is bad." I meant for it to be perceived as "Those of us that were on this Well, if you wanna keep suppressing conversation on the group, fine. ;) No, I took your point, and understand completely. .. I spend half my life debating religion with other people, and on a list that's supposedly devoted to DT (look at me bitch about myself), it's probably completely innappropriate and bandwidth wasting. . . No problem, man, it's all good. and with that, my spew is over. Boy, do I need tissues. . . figuratively, Rich ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 18:05:34 +1000 From: Luke To: ytsejam Subject: Peart's Training... Message-ID: >I don't really agree. . . Jazz is also a big traditional grip field. . >and there are some jazz drummers with monster chops! I guess it >depends on how you train. . . Also, I heard Peart was training between >albums with amaster of swing, to try and improve his emotional work on >drums. . .maybe this caused the switch? Anyone know? Neil Peart had been training with groove master Freddy Gruber. He was kind of refining Neil's style a bit, making him look at percussion as a more 'circular motion' of flowing grace, instead of a linear approach. "..music shouldn't be thought of as dots on a line, but rather point on a circle." - to quote the interview with Neil in one of my drum mags. Yes, he has taken up trad grip. Luke. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 18:05:40 +1000 From: Luke To: ytsejam Subject: OPETH Message-ID: I noticed there was some talk about the band Opeth on the Jam recently. ]From what was said about them, they sounded pretty good, so when I found some full-length songs in Mp3 on a website I stumbled across, I decided to download 'em and see what they were like. Initially, I was very impressed by the instrumental side of the music. They kind of remind me of FW, yet a bit simpler and much darker/heavier. The guitarist is great, the dark, moody atmosphere he creates really appeals to me and he seems to be the driving force behind band's style. As far double-bassing is concerened, the drummer's probably got the fastest set of feet I've heard in a long time (although he overuses it way too much). Yet aside from these aspects of the band, does anyone else think the leader singer's evil, slealthy, death-metal growl ruins the music ? I reckon he totally f**ks the music. I've never liked really evil, growling singers so I'm probably biased, but honestly, for the few briefs seconds he does sing normally (ie. without growling), his voice shows awesome potential and it's where the band, IMHO, really shines. FYI, the songs I heard were; Forrests Of October, In The Mist She Stands Waiting, The Twilight Is My Robe, The Apostle In Triumph, Under A Weeping Moon. It's a shame they use this style of singing which, for me at least, turns me off them totally. Initially (after hearing some of the instrumental aspects) I was thinking these guys could be my next fav band. With a more 'digestable' lead vocal style, I reckon Opeth could win several more fans here in the prog/power metal community. Any other opinions...? Luke. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 03:53:35 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Banister To: The Ytsejam Subject: Michael Hedges, Attn, MA jammers. .. Message-ID: Hey everyone in Mass. . . I go to Tufts University, and I was walking arround in Davis square today and noticed that Michael Hedges is playing the somerville theater on Nov. 12. I've heard him mentioned on the jam any number of times, and would like anybody's input on what his music's like, stuff like that. I've never heard his stuff, but from what people say, it sure sounds cool... Also, anyone in the Boston area interested in going? Could be cool. . . figuratively, Rich P.S. Marillion apparently played there earlier this year. .. and I missed them because I'd never heard of them then (before I'd gotten on the ytsejam)! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 12:36:24 +0100 From: Anna & Heike Boedeker To: email_address_removed Subject: rhythms*(sex+religion) Message-ID: Goddess!!! Michael Bahr must have too much energy to waste to bother writing stuff like "Just Let Me Breed"... I only fervently hope he and his band will never appear on any DT tribute :-) .. Rogerio Brito ... > Of course, she is indeed right to an extent, but I'd like to make >her swallow her own words, showing her some popular but highly technical >stuff. Could you, musicians of Ytsejam, please tell me what are the most >hard-to-play popular music that you know (I've heard that Zappa has some >songs that are almost impossible to play, but I don't know any of his >works)? I don't know, should I show her Metropolis part I or is it too >easy for a piano teacher? I think Ytsejam (our all-time favorite :-)) will do... BTW, most classically trained musicians have a hard time w/typical rock & jazz rhythms anyway (also w/sightreading...), at least those who are into Mozart & Brahms rather than Stravinskiy & Bart=F3k... You're right about Zappa 'acourse (just don't choose to play stuff like "No not now" to your auntie, as she probably won't like the -- IMHO sexist -- lyrics :-))... What I'd also recommend is Attitude and Answers by Steve Vai as they're embarrasingly simple, both conceptually and technically, but rhythmically she probably won't succeed at her first attempt either (well, it's not nice to do that to her, but if she really deserves this lesson :-)) The most awful stuff to play for me personally is Komet 41 by Embryo (from CD "Ibn Battuta"), it's a 41/8 meter, counted (7*5/8)+6/8 then shifting to (3*12/8)+5/8 :-) .. Rich .. >Well, D-man has spoken. I know as well from personal experience how testy >people can become about religion. . . and yet, I keep asking the >questions! Private email, anyone? =20 Since D-Man usually deems my posts meaningless I consequently can't do any serious harm anyway :-), and also it's not about religion *instead* of DT when I write that I can see more reflection on existential issues say in ACOS or Learning To Live, though it doesn't contain any explicit reference to Christianism, Buddhism or whatever than say in Bob Dylan almost 20 years ago singing placative stuff like "you gotta serve somebody" (and usually IMHO he writes very much better lyrics, too!!). Still worse in the case of Steve Vai who has such a strong religious (obviously Roman Catholic) background that it seems impossible to understand & appreciate his work if one simply ignored this dimension. Umm... still about Sri Chinmoy -- the interesting thing is that as many follwers he used to have in the "west" of the Indians we talked to back then hardly anyone knew him... :-| Best, Heike ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 3189 **************************