YTSEJAM Digest 3185 Today's Topics: 1) Re: Brain dumped, please reboot by Jon Parmet 2) *Penn State* Jammers by Dave Silva 3) RE:DT in PC world by Dave Gonzales 4) Good God... by Jon Kretschmer 5) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3159 by "Kevin Hammer" 6) Re: Brain dumped, please reboot by CLARK ABEL 7) Re: Detroit Show by Jeremy Garman 8) Chris Ptacek by Clark Abel 9) Hard Copies of Da Jam for MP and co. by Chad Allen Klunck 10) "Portnoy's an animal..." by Quazel Schmirt 11) Re: Chris Ptacek by email_address_removed (Ernesto Schnack) 12) About DT and the PC World thing . . . by "Brandon Vaughn" 13) (no subject) by Luke 14) DTC - imagine that. by Pat Sullivan 15) Tablature/DS writing/Anna Lee/BOF time/Religion+DT/otherstuff by Richard Banister ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:02:55 +0000 From: Jon Parmet To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Brain dumped, please reboot Message-ID: Clark: > Jon: >> For example, someone will make a point about there not being enough >> positive conversation centered around DT >> Can't someone ask for a little more DT content without > it specifically asked for more POSTIVE DTC. Ok, time to get anal :) If you'll notice in the above, the word positive WAS referenced earlier in the post. I guess I forgot to include it again later. I apologize profusely. Thanks for grapsing the CONTEXT of the entire post and not rushing to reply. > I don't want to read your posts that say how great DT is without > adding anythingnew to a discussion, That's abundantly clear :) > but I don't bitch about it (until now), I just skip it. Bullshit! You're as guilty as the rest of us of being human :) Don't make me (or any other of a myriad of jammers) pull out an archive or three and prove it to you :) I wasn't really bitching that much, by the way. I guess you missed the 20 or so smileys scattered throughout the document :) Certainly not to the degree to which the thread I was referencing was. > It won't kill you to do the same. The problem with me, I guess, is I don't have 25 hours a day to spend on the computer posting about DT. I almost never post anything DT related before someone else does, which is very often milliseconds after a DT related event occurs. As a result, I may not have anything new to add, but neither do many others. So apparently, it's something that's common to many of our species. I look at it this way: if it's new to THEM, that's GREAT! They must be in a good mood and excited about the topic THEY feel is new material. The list is not centered around MY posting schedule, nor is it my goal in life to take the wind out of someone else's sails. I've found I've been pretty good at skipping over a lot of what I (and many others) consider drivel over the last year or so. I certainly hadn't seen anyone complain about my attitude on the jam, until now. And as it pertains to the thread in question, my understading was that Correct me if I'm wrong, I thought this list was still something close to a Democracy (with a side dish of Anarchy :). Until I hear more people tell me to shut the fuck up, I'll just assume it's a problem you have with it. I see something I don't like, I speak up about it. Pretty simple. Have a nice weekend everyone! JP *------------*----------------------------*--------------* | Jon Parmet | email_address_removed | 617-494-2851 | *------------*----------------------------*--------------* "The Apollo Guidance Computer was primitive by any modern comparison having but 72 kilobytes of ROM and 4 kilobytes of RAM" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:32:52 -0500 (EST) From: Dave Silva To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: *Penn State* Jammers Message-ID: Hey, Are there any State College jammers who are going to the Pittsburgh show (or any other show in the area for that matter) and want to get a group together and drive down. I don't have any tickets yet and am not sure there are any left, but drop me a line if you already have tickets or are interested in getting them. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:57:02 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Gonzales To: email_address_removed Subject: RE:DT in PC world Message-ID: Was I the only one to reach the "you've been had" page or did I just ruin the prank for anyone without enough free time to look it up yet? Dave %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Dave Gonzales "Take care and tempt not the fates" 910 W. Benton #307D Iowa City, Iowa 52246 email:email_address_removed (319)-339-0754 "Cherish your life while you're still around."-Dream Theater %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:58:46 -0800 From: Jon Kretschmer To: email_address_removed Subject: Good God... Message-ID: >From: Anna & Heike Boedeker > >To: email_address_removed > >Subject: Re: Bass Stuff (Thonk), people who can/can't read music >The capability to sightread in my own as well in the experience of others >(and I'm speaking of professional musicians here) -- exception 'acourse >being geniuses (I always think of Stu Goldberg here) having received an >excellent (i.e. most bass folks who have learned to sightread >Brandenburgian Concertos at school nevertheless will have a hard time >reading transcriptions of say the stuff that JM is playing) education >starting from early childhood -- very much depends on continous practice, >i.e. it tends to get better as you have a lot of jobs requiring it (resp. >writing actually by *writing*) whereas as you tend to loose some of it in >situations where you mostly play just from memory, and it seems to be >especially worse in case of jazz bass players as what you see printed in >the Real and other fake books:-) has more or less "only" (in fact knowing >your options for walking bass line over bebopish changes 4 bars in advance >is another art form...) the value of a lead sheet while mostly improvising. > >The aspect to it is that I'm very critical of the general view of writing >as exclusively valuable, or at least prestigious means of transmitting, be >it musical or linguistic/literary contents anyway. I also think that e.g. >oral literatures should be judged in their own right. Also I've made the >experience that attempts at preserving endagered languages by inventing >written vernaculars only had the opposite effect as it contributed to >overpowering in an already existant asymmetrical power r'ship between >cultures. Holy hell, talk about flashbacks to reading Faulkner and Melville in High school. Pick an idea and stick with it through the end of the sentence!!!!!! sheesh...; ) All you guys talking about meeting DT is scaring me. I suppose that if I do meet them this time around, I wouldnt do anything dumber than someone has done before... : ) Back to your 4th jam of the day... Jon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:11:25 PST From: "Kevin Hammer" To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3159 Message-ID: >do with attitude and how a person was brought up. Me, I was weaned on >classic rock and classical music, so it only figures my tastes would >revolve in those areas. "Heh heh, he said wean..." Dean and Gene, baby. >Ween, that is. > Oh SHIT! Someone actually mentioned Ween on here :p I've got a video of those guys playing acoustic Led Zep covers. Cool shit, everyone should listen to these guys. kevin hammer "Are you surprised when I touch the dwarf inside?" -WEEN- ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:39:20 -0400 (EDT) From: CLARK ABEL To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Brain dumped, please reboot Message-ID: >Bullshit! You're as guilty as the rest of us of being human :) Don't >make me (or any other of a myriad of jammers) pull out an archive or >three and prove it to you :) Ok, I'll keep this short, since it's starting to get stupid (my posts, not yours). My point was not clear, but I will try to make it clear now: I don't feel like a hyprocrite posting about wasted bandwidth because I don't care if people waste bandwidth. I was trying not to be too negative, but I obviously failed. The only reason that I commented on it in the first place was ... oh god, I don't even know how I got into this one. But I really didn't think I was going to piss anyone off today. Ok, I swear this is the last time I'll post on this. -Clark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 08:39:03 -0800 From: Jeremy Garman To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Detroit Show Message-ID: Hey gang, Just thought I'd share some thoughts on the Detroit show last night: Clark wrote: > Venue: shitty. We waited forever to get in (not that that's > anything new), the sound was terrible, and the stage was the size of a >postage stamp. I about shit when we walked and took a look at the stage... I am surprised the band moved around as much as they did. There were a few times where James was on the verge of taking the tumble coming back out on stage. Clark again: > James, was sick as a dog, and so he sang alot of parts an octave low, >but he actually sounded quite clean, if not clear. No dirty screeches. >And, we got to hear some interesting vocal improvisations, since he was >constantly trying to decide which notes he could hit and which he >couldn't. I definitely think James had great control over his restricted range, I'm glad he didn't try to scream. But while some have said they had problems hearing the keys, I couldn't hear the vocals that well. :-/ Partha wrote: > I looked up to the balcony where the guys I came in with were > enjoying an unmolested view of the band......they also looked to have >no crowding problems... Well, we were in the balcony almost the whole show, and while at times you could see everything unmolested, there were other times I could barely see the stage. But I also noticed a BIG difference in the sound when I went down on the floor for Metropolis... It was so much better. I guess we sacrificed the sound for not having to be scrunched together on the floor. Oh well... Some other things: It was GREAT hearing Scarred live, even though James had some trouble remembering the vocals; Seeing Myung playing the stick just totally blew me away, glad I had an unmolested view during this part of the show; Hollow Years didn't really impress me much, except for seeing Petrucci with his double-neck; hearing Portnoy scream "Keep your fuckin' head up!" in New Millenium; and hearing the lounge version of UAGM after the show made the show. And lastly, Clark once again: > Both of them > got > to witness my wild temper when we parked within a block of the venue, then > decided to look for a better parking space and ended up at least ten miles > form > from the place because I couldn't figure out how to turn around in Detroit. > But that turned out ok. Jeremy was a good sport, since we ended up just > sittingaround my house all day before the show. He never complained about > being bored > once, even though he probably was. :) I didn't complain because I WASN'T bored, and I'm GLAD we didn't stay parked where we were originally were: we would have had to stand in line that much longer, and had a lesser chance of getting the car stolen. :) -- ************************************************* Jeremy Garman mailto:email_address_removed mailto:email_address_removed "I don't need 1000 reasons when someone starts to cry; when someone says their heart needs lifting, don't ask how come, ask how high..." -DREAM THEATER ************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:29:03 -0800 From: Clark Abel To: email_address_removed Cc: email_address_removed Subject: Chris Ptacek Message-ID: >> From: CLARK ABEL >> Subject: Re: Dickdickdickdickdick :) > Bandwidth has never been a serious concern of mine, and I don't >think I leaned too heavily on that. Regardless, I won't dignify this >post with a full response, as I do not have *ANY* respect for Clark >Abel. I have no idea what specifically brought this on, but I will just say that "I'm not going to dignify that post with a response" is typical of your pseudo-intellectual bullshit, Chris. That's a cop-out, plain and simple. And you did respond, you just didn't respond well. > The simple fact is that some people (like myself) would >prefer that the list were utilized in the manner that it was designed >for. If you have a problem with that, cry. I don't care. > Have a nice day :) You are truly a hypocrite. Twice today you have attacked people in a childish manner because you disagreed with them. Oh, I know, Chris Ptacek would *never* do that. He is *so* open-minded. Only problem with the above statement is that you are defining what the list is designed for by what you want to see on it. Gee, that sounds like something the open-minded Chris Ptacek would never do, either. I would hardly call my post crying. I presented my views in a much more mature manner than you have chosen. Earlier today, Rich (the "figuratively" guy, who, BTW, has presented more real insight to this list in the month or so he's been here than I have seen from Chris Ptacek in the almost two years I've been on the list) responded in a very civil manner, with well-presented arguments, to Chris's post. He also made Chris look like an idiot. But he did it with a degree of politeness that is rare on the jam. Chris responded with an absolutely assinine and hostile argument about how he had been misrepresented by Rich. Bullshit. You got your ass kicked. Deal with it. You always pull that cop-out, "that's not what I said" crap. You never take responsibility for anything you say. And, hey, wasn't it Chris Ptacek who complained the other day about how negative and impolite everyone on this list is? How we all need to cut out the flames and be more civil? Oh, I know, Chris's two-year-old brother must be posting from his account. You've done it before. I remember an argument you and I had a few months ago, resulting from some admittedly stupid things I posted. Well, I appologized, and then when I clarified my arguments, and made a point that you had no argument for, all of a sudden you decided to drop it because "this discussion wasn't going to go anywhere". You had "agreed to disagree with me". Gee, how big of you. Too bad you were fucking WRONG. (This was that whole "definition of prog" thread, if you need a refresher.) Want another example? I asked you how FII was a progression from Awake. You gave a few weak reasons, but the thrust of your argument was that it was more "mature". That's real fucking descriptive. It's another convenient cop-out phrase on this list. You claim to respect other people's opinions when they say that they like I&W or Awake better than FII, but you can't admit yourself that it's just your OPINION that FII is better. You actually pretend to, but then you throw that "more mature" tag on it. That's an insult to anyone who doesn't like FII as much as DT's old material, and you know it. Their tastes are "immature". Oh, but they're opinion is, of course, just as valid as yours. Just immature. I know some people will wonder why I'm bringing this up, but it's just another example of your "open-mindedness". There's always a catch, isn't there? Grow up, Chris. We all post stupid shit from time to time. I'm as guilty as anyone of that. It's a weakness of this e-mail medium that we can't always express exactly what we mean, and oftentimes by the time we can clarify the damage has been done. But I can admit I said something stupid, and I will apologize when I do. You will not. I will grant you one thing. You are truly a master of rhetoric. For a while I even bought your open-minded act. But when we sift through all the bullshit, you are as guilty as anyone, if not more so, of forcing your humble little opinions on others. -Clark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:31:52 -0600 From: Chad Allen Klunck To: The Jam to End All Jams Subject: Hard Copies of Da Jam for MP and co. Message-ID: I have received an offer from help from a British jammer, Dan Bonatti. He has offered to split up Operation: PortnoyJam97 with me. We will begin full speed ahead within a few days if nobody else offers to help or provides us with a Top 10 list of reasons we shouldn't. Private e-mail for the Top 10 list, of course, lest D-man FAQ you...and we all know how much that would hurt! :) Anyways, if you would like to offer assistance, mail me at email_address_removed, or post to the jam. I would love to hand-deliver my portion of them to Mike, but the mini-tour decided not to stop within 1500 miles of me...but we won't talk about that right now. Chad ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:53:33 -0500 (EST) From: Quazel Schmirt To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: "Portnoy's an animal..." Message-ID: > Portnoy's an animal.....threw one stick that nearly hit me in the > head.....i woulda got it if my arms weren't fucking down by the > crowd..... :) (not kidding, either, it came that close to popping me in > the skull)......guy was sure fun to watch, wrecking that monster kit..... This also happened to me at Birch Hell last year. Between Heather talking to me, and talking to Derek (was right in front of him), I almost got clocked big time. Good thing Mallet Man was right behind me. Guess he didn't want to carry me home! It is a nice addition to his stick collection. That guy should be more careful, we may start taking it personally! Sorry I won't be seeing everyone in NJ this year. Unless everyone wants to come to my gig in NY....as much as I love to perform, if I had a choice, we all know where I would be! Jill ----------------------- Quazel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 22:04:28 -0500 From: email_address_removed (Ernesto Schnack) To: Subject: Re: Chris Ptacek Message-ID: > >post with a full response, as I do not have *ANY* respect for Clark > >Abel. > I have no idea what specifically brought this on, but I will just say that "I'm > not going to dignify that post with a response" is typical of your pseudo-intellectual > bullshit, Chris. That's a cop-out, plain and simple. And you did respond, you just > didn't respond well. Ok this is the kinda shit that makes the jam go down the tubes every once in a while. These are the moments where everyone should follow DT's advice "Swallow pride before it swallows you" Now Chris and Clark have a disagreement, and it has come to the level of insults. Fine, now take it off the jam. Not just Chris and Clark. EVERYBODY. Evrythime something like this happens, a bunch ppl start taking sides and defend either of the two (the Bahr Wars being the best example). Hey Chris and Clark are big boys and can defend themselves. Leave it to them. Take this thing private NOW, before the shit hits the fan. thank you, Ernesto ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:55:48 -0600 From: "Brandon Vaughn" To: Subject: About DT and the PC World thing . . . Message-ID: That whole PC World thing was just a big joke on us, if you haven't gotten through. Notice the last part of the address: "trick" It is some Halloween prank at PC World that says it has just installed a virus on your system. They probably took it down, the reason why most of you can't get through. Funny, I didn't know Halloween and April Fool's were celebrated on the same day now. Hmm.... \\||// ~~..'~ ( \ ) Brandon Vaughn \ c/ __\/__ "The Mad Tabber" / \ < . _ \ email_address_removed \ `\ \ -' / \ \ ,,,_ email_address_removed >|""O[|||||nn[:::< /_,--- ._\ '''''~ ~ | | | | | ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 14:05:26 +1000 From: Luke To: ytsejam Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: Neal Brown wrote: >Ai yi yi. I dunno why MZ or Neil would do that....must be more natural >for them, or something. Eeek. Traditional grip just sucks for >rock....the only time you really ever use traditional is in marching >bands. YtseDrummers, wouldn't you agree? I can't imagine seeing MP rip >off his solo in Ytse Jam with his left wrist all cockeyed, like that. Check out Steve Smith of "Journey" fame. He uses trad grip and he f**ken goes off in Rock and Jazz drumming...totally awesome. He could easily pull of MP's solo in YtseJam with his technique. But you're right, it does seem near impossible to pull of really dynamic shit using trad grip, but it's been done. Luke. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:16:35 -0500 From: Pat Sullivan To: email_address_removed Subject: DTC - imagine that. Message-ID: >> I just got back from my honeymoon, and first priority is to plow >> through the 30+ jams that came in my absence. Please bear with me. :) > >Congratulations, man!!!!! May you and the Mrs. bring many happy and >healthy little jammers/jammerettes into the world :) Thank you much. And, as a note, nobody's called me "Sully" since high school. I was starting to miss it. Thanks for bringing that back too. :) Oh...I knew there was something else - I actually got a partial DT-fan conversion _at my wedding_! (That's me - always put OFB first!). Here was the deal: For my traditional dance with my mom, I picked "Eve". I had to bring in the TSM single for the DJ, and after the song, he came over and was asking all sorts of questions about the band, what they sound like, etc. And let me just say, having DT played at my wedding RULED. :) ----- _____Pat Sullivan_____________________________________ E-Mail: email_address_removed WWW: http://www.ici.net/cust_pages/psull/psull.html IRC: DDictator ICQ: 2049374 ______________________________________________________ There cannot be a crisis today; my schedule is already full. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:52:03 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Banister To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Tablature/DS writing/Anna Lee/BOF time/Religion+DT/otherstuff Message-ID: > Does anyone have or know where I can get a quality transcription of > Ytsejam? Preferably with solos. You can check out the OLGA. . I don't know if they're still accepting any submissions, but I remember them having a pretty good (if slightly flawed) version of the ytsejam.. . it can be found here: http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/tab.html they have a number of DT tabs.. . however, it hasn't grown, and so: > doing collaberative and presumably more accurate transcriptions for other DT > songs like was done with ACOS. I think that's a great idea, and I'd be up That sounds cool, and I'd like to help as well, if someone is actually coordinating it. .. I'd love to not only transcribe some DT stuff, but also Kansas, Rush and the like (already figured out most every rush song I've listened to be ear. . .). . anyone else? DS WRITING: Well, I don't know how anybody else could've written most of Anna Lee. .. unless one of the other band members picked up the keyboard and showed DS how it's done! That would be. . unfortunate. BTW, I notice a lot of negative feelings towards Anna Lee. . why is this? I happen to think that the song is cool (I don't care if it's a soupy ballad!). Here are some points on it: LaBries vocals: sounds like REO speedwagon! I could take some serious flak for that, but observe: prechorus, when he sings "The tears wash clean" listen to the stereo sound of his vocals in the mix. . it's not that his voice sounds like it, but it's got the same feel. The song also minds me of Elton John in some ways (possible DS influence? Whose choice do you suppose "funeral for a friend" was on ACOS?). . . I love the guitar line (esp. right before the aforementioned vocal)... mmm... > thing about the 7-hour DVD stuff, and the thought of it nearly made me > jizz my pants!! Geez! ^^^^ sheesh. . you complain about my KY comment? SIGHTREADING / UNIVERSAL LANGUAGE: Well, I'll throw my two bits (programming currency, I guess) in... My ideal player (and indeed, the one that I aspire to be) is one that can play anything that he wants, regardless of the music that his/her band plays. This means a lover of all types of music, who can just as easily rip out Master of Puppets as play a piece of classical music. In order to study all types of music, one needs to be able to read said music. This is debateable, of course, but I believe that being able to read music will increase your musical vocabulary, such that you can make a choice as to what to play, as opposed to being limited by your ignorance of it. Of course, everyone is able to express themselves, but if you can only use certain tools to express your feelings, then aren't you limited? The universal language, in my opinion, is emotion. In contemplating this post, I was considering love, and I was considering music. But it's so much more general.. Humans have an enormous potential for love and hate, for rage and serenity. We all can express these emotions, be it through words or our music, and that is what makes us so human. A song can make you feel angry, as many metal songs will do, and others can bring you to tears. When I hear someones passion expressed through his music, I am captivated by it. It is wonderful to see. I use music as a tool; I use it to express how I feel. And through it, I hope to be able to display any emotion I can conceive. I want my songs to tell a story, to involve the listener in my situation. I would paint my musical canvas with the contents of my soul, if I had the ability. But at the moment, I don't. But that's why I study music, that's why I'm learning to read music, that's why I read books. Everything I learn about a language helps me express myself in it better, every step I take brings me a little closer. And someday I hope to have my ability in music mirror my ability to feel. OTHER STUFF: > > Perhaps the problem here is that these posts requesting more DT > >discussion generally don't add any DT discussions themselves. How many flames complain about a waste of bandwidth, when that flame generates a thread of NDTC that occupies an entire jam? Whoops. . didn't mean to contirbute to that.. . the irony. .. > I better stop here as all this probably was more relevant to a McLaughlin > (anyone happening to know, BTW, whether he after more than 25 years still > is into this Sri Chinmoy religious stuff which led him to call himself > Mahavishnu?) mailing list ;-) McLaughlin is a pretty emotional guy. . . he feels very powerfully (you can tell in his solos. ..). I would tend to doubt that he would drop that (although I haven't seen that mentioned in his recent albums). Any one else notice a tie between spirituality and music? Steve Vai, McLaughlin, and many others all seem to have a very powerfull faith (EVH too. . which pisses me off: "Let's not forget that the one person who's responsible for my ability is the man upstairs." What a moron. Oh shit. . .I just called EVH a moron! That's _bad_).. . I was wondering what the religious beliefs of DT were, and how tied-in to the music they are (the old verse3 from TAMP, and some parts of voices make me wonder)? I'm a very strong atheist, so I don't tolerate people attributing their talent to God (yes, I know, IMO!)... perhaps I should be more open minded, but someone works for years improving their ability in an instrument and then attributes it to God. . . doesn't make sense to me. Sorry to anybody I offended with that.. I know you feel as strongly about your beliefs as I do... BIRDS OF FIRE TIME SIG: > Yeah, it is, but that's a really sill sig to count in....whenever I see > or hear anything like that, I count it in groups of 6 or something. > After a while, you'll start to count syllables (sev-en-teen) as > beats....pain in the ass. Never count it.. . it's the feel that matters! I think I just contradicted my former paragrpahs, but WTFever. This is very true, though. In my pole-vaulting days, we were supposed to count our steps on a run up (interestingly enough, I never counted. . just went for the feel of it!). Once we got to seven, though, the second sylable screws up your rythm, and you end up being a pancake on the runway. So we were told to use "set" instead. Much better. . . same with counting in music. > Ai yi yi. I dunno why MZ or Neil would do that....must be more natural > for them, or something. Eeek. Traditional grip just sucks for > rock....the only time you really ever use traditional is in marching > bands. YtseDrummers, wouldn't you agree? I can't imagine seeing MP rip > off his solo in Ytse Jam with his left wrist all cockeyed, like that. I don't really agree. . . Jazz is also a big traditional grip field. . and there are some jazz drummers with monster chops! I guess it depends on how you train. . . Also, I heard Peart was training between albums with a master of swing, to try and improve his emotional work on drums. . . maybe this caused the switch? Anyone know? > rules like that before, and not in jest, as Seroussi did....). My > opinion of FII is that it's excellent; however, HY and TAMP are songs I I think it sucks. DT sold out. . . ;) > think I leaned too heavily on that. Regardless, I won't dignify this > post with a full response, as I do not have *ANY* respect for Clark > Abel. well, I'm not gonna throw myself out into the open again, but I do think that's a little asinine. . . I mean, everyone's got an opinion, right? If you don't have any respect for, say, Newt Gangrich, will you still not debate with him? We're all humans, we all have the same right to be here (although, in Newts case, I'll make an exception). . . > for. If you have a problem with that, cry. I don't care. Well, I'm gonna go try an work out my feelings now. .. enjoy! figuratively, Rich ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 3185 **************************