YTSEJAM Digest 3184 Today's Topics: 1) gap almost filled!!! by Mauricio Martinez Villarreal 2) Re: DT in PC World!?!?!? by "Christopher R. Merlo" 3) Guitar tab request by CLARK ABEL 4) Re: gap almost filled!!! by "Christopher R. Merlo" 5) Re: Dream Theater DVD by Bert Baldwin 6) pc world thing... by Santiago Leon 7) Re: Bass Stuff (Thonk), people who can/can't read music by Anna & Heike Boedeker 8) Re: DT in PC World!?!?!? by "Kelly A. McAllister" 9) whiners & DTC by Ryanne 10) ear plugs by Pat Daugherty 11) universal languages & writing systems by Anna & Heike Boedeker 12) Ok, some DT content here for you by Rogerio Brito 13) by "Neal Brown" 14) Denver show Nov. 6! by NightCast 15) Earsplugs by email_address_removed 16) dt, detroit, another mini-review by "Partha S. Mukhopadhyay" 17) Bend over by email_address_removed ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:11:55 -0600 (CST) From: Mauricio Martinez Villarreal To: ytsejam Subject: gap almost filled!!! Message-ID: It seems that whem KM left the band, he took away his songwriting ideas and creative imput in DT s music, and Derek was hired not only to support a world tour, but to be a band member and to fill a gap left by Kev. He has almost filled that gap. He already took care of the music, he is a creative band member who adds his personality unto the songs, and he has succeded. But what about the songwriting? I havent read the FAQ recently, but i think that if he is a good songwriter and if he wrote some songs, they were left off of FII, cause of the priority of the original members s songs. What do you think about this? Mauricio ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:29:37 -0500 From: "Christopher R. Merlo" To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: DT in PC World!?!?!? Message-ID: > I was checking out PC World Online and came across the MOST obscure DT > Reference I EVER thought possible!!!!! My mouth was on the floor as I > read this article..ya gotta check this out! I can't believe no one else > caught this yet!!! > > http://www.pcworld.com/workstyles/online/articles/oct97/1510tricksb2.html Am I the only one that got "The page you requested cannot be found." from this? Carlo, care to check that URL for us please? Thanks. -d ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough email_address_removed "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates email_address_removed /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Maintainer of the Official Dream Theater Frequently Asked Questions List http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/dtfaq.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:32:20 -0400 (EDT) From: CLARK ABEL To: email_address_removed Subject: Guitar tab request Message-ID: Does anyone have or know where I can get a quality transcription of Ytsejam? Preferably with solos. On the topic of transcriptions for obscure songs, someone mentioned doing collaberative and presumably more accurate transcriptions for other DT songs like was done with ACOS. I think that's a great idea, and I'd be up for helping out, although I dont' think I'm up for tackling the whole song myself. Just a thought. -Clark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:40:43 -0500 From: "Christopher R. Merlo" To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: gap almost filled!!! Message-ID: > has succeded. But what about the songwriting? I havent read the FAQ > recently, but i think that if he is a good songwriter and if he > wrote some songs, they were left off of FII, cause of the priority of the > original members s songs. ]From what I understand, Derek has contributed just as much as the other band members (and as KevMo did) in the writing of the music. It's only in the lyrics-writing department that Derek hasn't participated. I don't know whose choice that was (his, or the band's). Lines in the Sand came from one of his ideas (esp the intro and the bridge), and Anna Lee sounds like something that was his, too. I'd venture to say he's one hell of a songwriter. (BTW, if you need further examples of his songwriting, try to find Brad Gillis' "Gilrock Ranch" album - DS is all over it, and the songs are pretty cool.) -d ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough email_address_removed "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates email_address_removed /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Maintainer of the Official Dream Theater Frequently Asked Questions List http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/dtfaq.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:47:54 +0000 (UTC) From: Bert Baldwin To: The YtseJam mailing list Subject: Re: Dream Theater DVD Message-ID: MAN! You guys shouldn't be posting this sort of stuff!!!!! I read that thing about the 7-hour DVD stuff, and the thought of it nearly made me jizz my pants!! Geez! -- Bert Baldwin email_address_removed ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:59:02 -0500 From: Santiago Leon To: DT freaks Subject: pc world thing... Message-ID: > caught this yet!!! > > http://www.pcworld.com/workstyles/online/articles/oct97/1510tricksb2.html > > check this out cuz its just too cool! FINALLY some recognition! hey... it can't find the page... are you sure it's spelled correctly?... thanks.... -- +---------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | | And I'll smile and I'll learn to pretend| | Santiago A. León | And I'll never be open again | | email_address_removed | And I'll have no more dreams to defend | | | And I'll never be open again | | | Kevin Moore, Dream Theater | +---------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:29:55 +0100 From: Anna & Heike Boedeker To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Bass Stuff (Thonk), people who can/can't read music Message-ID: The capability to sightread in my own as well in the experience of others (and I'm speaking of professional musicians here) -- exception 'acourse being geniuses (I always think of Stu Goldberg here) having received an excellent (i.e. most bass folks who have learned to sightread Brandenburgian Concertos at school nevertheless will have a hard time reading transcriptions of say the stuff that JM is playing) education starting from early childhood -- very much depends on continous practice, i.e. it tends to get better as you have a lot of jobs requiring it (resp. writing actually by *writing*) whereas as you tend to loose some of it in situations where you mostly play just from memory, and it seems to be especially worse in case of jazz bass players as what you see printed in the Real and other fake books:-) has more or less "only" (in fact knowing your options for walking bass line over bebopish changes 4 bars in advance is another art form...) the value of a lead sheet while mostly improvising. The aspect to it is that I'm very critical of the general view of writing as exclusively valuable, or at least prestigious means of transmitting, be it musical or linguistic/literary contents anyway. I also think that e.g. oral literatures should be judged in their own right. Also I've made the experience that attempts at preserving endagered languages by inventing written vernaculars only had the opposite effect as it contributed to overpowering in an already existant asymmetrical power r'ship between cultures. Kitaakitamattsinohpowaawa, <--- "see ya" in Blackfoot, which 'acourse only has been invented to meet the needs of acculturated communicative settings, as traditionally one wouldn't have liked making too much words ;-) Heike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 97 16:21:11 EST From: "Kelly A. McAllister" To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: DT in PC World!?!?!? Message-ID: OK Guys... Where is the web page? Does anyone know the actual URL? Kelly ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:19:10 -0500 From: Ryanne To: email_address_removed Subject: whiners & DTC Message-ID: ~*~Clark said:~*~ > Hmmmm.... I always find it amusing when people argue about bandwidth >and what belongs on the list, all the while wasting more precious "bandwidth". True, but then Clark, what the heck was this: > Perhaps the problem here is that these posts requesting more DT >discussion generally don't add any DT discussions themselves. Funny how one can so easily prove their own point by proceeding to do exactly what they're complaining about. On a DT related note... I was fortunate enough to, like many others on the list, to catch DT at HMV in TO a couple nights ago - however not as fortunate to catch the show, as it was 19+ and I'm just months shy. Being my first time seeing DT live (even if it was in a record store), I stood there in complete awe as the band ripped through TSM, TAMP, and HY. JP sounded magnificent, as did Derek - and I'm guessing James caught his cold that night sometime, because he sounded a-ok singing at the store, however he aparantly didn't sound so great the next night at the show in Detroit. For those who saw the band at The Warehouse, how did James sound then? After their acoustic set, tables and such were set up onstage, and DT proceeded to sign autographs. I found it rather pleasant to be able to stand there (I ended up having to wait in line for about 30 mins), and just chat up a storm with those who didn't look at me like I had two heads when I mentioned the words "Dream Theater". When I finally got to the front of the line, I was greeted by a rather charming James who seems to be quite good at shooting the shit, Derek seemed, well, tired, Mike was quite talkative - he and I discussed both this list and the #ytsejam channel as well as complained about the age limit on the show that night, JP was another charmer, and Myung... well, he was The Silent Man. All in all, I had a good night, despite the fact I missed the show. But hey, if this Cdn tour is a go, I'm there. -Ryanne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:30:04 -0500 (EST) From: Pat Daugherty To: Dream Theater Mailing List Subject: ear plugs Message-ID: Mike wrote: >Try your local musical instrument dealer. Every one I've ever been (that >wasn't a mom - and - pop operation) has had exactly what you're looking >for. I can't remember the brand name, but I've been very pleased with >mine. Now I just have to remember to TAKE them to the shows... :) Just curious, do you wear ear plugs when Division is playing? My eyes aren't that good, not like I was looking anyway... |-------------------------------------------------------------------| | Pat Daugherty email_address_removed | |===================================================================| | Washington Redskins 4-4 | | Upon the murder scene of a NY Yankee fan at Camden Yards: | | "I didn't know that was illegal in Baltimore"-Munch on Homicide | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 22:23:58 +0100 From: Anna & Heike Boedeker To: email_address_removed Subject: universal languages & writing systems Message-ID: .. "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Toni_M=E4ki?=" ... >Phil: >>Music is the universal language, IMHO. > >Not quite. Music is like language, true, but like language >it is connected to your culture and to place where you live. >Try to find some Thai-music and see if you speak >that language :) Basically you're right though there seem to be some real universals like the maluma- takete thing of Koehler who drew 2 figures, one round, the other w/lotsa edges, and then he told probands that one was called "maluma" and the other one "takete", and they should tell which one was called how... and throughout all kinds of different cultures there seems to be some *sound symbolism* operating so that the round one is maluma and the edgy one takete... In music much, of course, is very refined and elaborated, like the emotional values associated w/Indian ragas only can be really appreciated after having received appropriate education (mind you I'm talking about listeners here, not just musicians). Then there's real common misunderstandings like most Europeans and Americans tend to interpret maqamaat (the regular plural of maqaam) quite uniformously as kinda sad, somehow exotic, etc. etc. which wasn't the listening impression even to uneducated Arabs. The analogy also is interesting b/c we have different writing (notational systems) and again their purpose is different (e.g. ragas, dastgahs and maqaamat are largely improvised, but still you need a writing system for dealing w/theory, and also writing again). And also for scientific purposes, just as IPA (int'l phonetic alphabet) is a heavily modified Latin alphabet, musicologists use a heavily modified (for untemepered scales etc.) standard notation system. I better stop here as all this probably was more relevant to a McLaughlin (anyone happening to know, BTW, whether he after more than 25 years still is into this Sri Chinmoy religious stuff which led him to call himself Mahavishnu?) mailing list ;-) Heike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:27:03 -0200 (EDT) From: Rogerio Brito To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Ok, some DT content here for you Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, Mauricio Martinez Villarreal wrote: [talking about Derek's input on the band] > but i think that if he is a good songwriter and if he > wrote some songs, they were left off of FII, cause of the priority of the > original members s songs. Hummm... When I talked to Derek here in Brazil together with Cassiano, we asked him what were his preferred tracks from the new record (and FII wasn't even released at that time). He said, smiling a lot: "Lines in the Sand". We asked him why and he told us: "Because I wrote most of it". If memory serves, "Anna Lee" is also mainly his composition (of course the lyrics are by James LaBicha :-) ). > What do you think about this? > Mauricio BTW, another 'jammer (I think it was Clark Abel) asked about James hair being dark. He already had that dark hair when they showed up here in Brazil. []s, Roger... -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - email_address_removed.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html "Life is ours, we live it our way (...) / And nothing else matters" James Hetfield (Metallica), Nothing Else Matters =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:08:51 PST From: "Neal Brown" To: email_address_removed Message-ID: >However, I do know for a fact that 'birds of fire' is in 18/8. Yeah, it is, but that's a really sill sig to count in....whenever I see or hear anything like that, I count it in groups of 6 or something. After a while, you'll start to count syllables (sev-en-teen) as beats....pain in the ass. > Kansas' first 3 or 4 albums are very DT-like, especially Masque, >their 3rd. Yeah...DT definitely looks to Masque the most. Masque is the most aggressive and raw of Kansas' discog....I'd also venture Masque is the most like modern heavy metal, too. (Mysteries & Mayhem) Isn't that guitar tone awesome? Almsot zero sustain, very edgy. Makes it sound Frippian, almost. >Actually, I always thought that DT kinda borrowed a chord progression >from Kansas.. listen to the end/outro of Death of Mother Nature Suite >off the first Kansas album and compare it to the outro of Take the >Time (the part where it fades to just Kevin's piano, then Mike's >drums, Myung and a solo by Petrucci come in, then the chorus is >reprised in relatively slow 4/4). Oh my goodness, you're right. I went back and listened to this. The DOMNS progression actually repeats the last two chords, or something like that. The end of the progression is different, but yeah, it's striking. Anybody have either one of those transcribed? I'd love to hear what they are, and I'm horrible at figuring out progressions by ear. >Actually, Mark Zonder plays with the traditional grip, and Peart was >using it on the TFE songs on the last tour. Strange - I'm a >guitarist,but I tend to notice drummers... Ai yi yi. I dunno why MZ or Neil would do that....must be more natural for them, or something. Eeek. Traditional grip just sucks for rock....the only time you really ever use traditional is in marching bands. YtseDrummers, wouldn't you agree? I can't imagine seeing MP rip off his solo in Ytse Jam with his left wrist all cockeyed, like that. >We're all DT fans on this list, obviously. So the positive aspects >of the band are pretty much given. We all know why we like them. >This is probably why a lot of the content on the list strikes some >people as negative. To them, I would say again, if you don't want to >read it, SKIP IT. I don't want to read your posts that say how great >DT is without adding anythingnew to a discussion, Bravo. This should be a forum for DT news, DT debate (not flaming!), and miscellaneous stuff of interest to DT fans (prog metal, prog, the music industry, etc), not a forum for posts like "dt r00lz" (I've seen spell rules like that before, and not in jest, as Seroussi did....). My opinion of FII is that it's excellent; however, HY and TAMP are songs I still skip. Just because I don't like em doesn't mean I'm negative. Also, just because HY doesn't feature any psychotic time sigs or anything doesn' mean I can't like it. (I like Led Zeppelin, for Christ's sake.) I like balladry, when it's done well (Another Day, anything by Dave Matthews). But HY and TAMP, and AL aren't really good ballads, IMHO. The band underplays on them. James sings really well but the music just isn't strong enough. >Thanks, > >Aaron You're welcome. ROTFLMAO! I was the one responsible for giving him the address. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:02:42 -0700 From: NightCast To: "'email_address_removed'" Subject: Denver show Nov. 6! Message-ID: <01BCE60E.59643000@tron> If there are *ANY* jammers going to the Denver DT show at Ogden Theater, please e-mail me! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:11:02 EST From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Earsplugs Message-ID: --- Received from HQ02MEMO.TC6NSMM MCCURDY, SHAWN 10-31-97 17:09 Jim, About the earplugs: I found a cheap($3.99)brand of earplugs that work excellent. They're called HEROES and they are nothing more than a type of rubber earplug(they're orange in color) with a black center rod that looks kind of like the end of a shoelace. I use them for drumming with my band and they don't distort the actual music, only "turn it down." The only catch is I'm not positive that they still manufacture them. The last time I checked for them, I found the same packing and little clear case that they come in, but the plugs were a greyish in color without the center sound filter. I haven't tried these ones and I don't know if they're simple another type or a replacement. Most music and CD stores sell them, especially if the store also sales concert tickets. I know that this isn't alot of help but if you can find the original HEROES that I'm talking about then I think you'll be satisfied (plus they're cheap). BTW, I just picked up my DT tickets! 19 day, 2 hours, and 23 minutes to go! See-ya Shawn ---- 10-31-97 17:09 ---- Sent to ------------------------------------ -> IBMMAIL.INTERNET Advantis IBM Mail Exchange ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:50:15 -0500 (EST) From: "Partha S. Mukhopadhyay" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: dt, detroit, another mini-review Message-ID: first time i've ever seen the band......impressed with them, but the concert experience sorta blew..... i made a mistake real early....went inside the venue, and it has balconies on both sides of the floor area.....great view.....saw a couple of jammers (hey Jeff and Andrew) on the floor, went down and stayed there the whole show.....i saw Big Wreck pretty good (my impression was a cool 'soundgarden with a twang' type of band, which I'll probably pick up if I ever see it in a music store) Their lead singer had a problem with his microphone, he kept getting electrically shocked, and he was joking around, going into fake convulsions, saying, "wouldn't it be cool if i died".....a pretty good opener, I'd say, better than what I'd expected from the advance buzz on here...... anyway, in the (almost) hour between BW and DT, the space before me filled up with all these 6'4" guys who sprung up out of nowhere.....every once in a while, I looked up to the balcony where the guys I came in with were enjoying an unmolested view of the band......they also looked to have no crowding problems.....me, I was pinballed for a lot of the night, and my back and knees still hurt....... about the band itself, as Clark Abel already said, > few things. This was my first DT show, and, not to rain on anyone's > parade, but it was one of the least enjoyable concerts I have ever been > to. I won't say that it was a BAD concert, because it wasn't, but my > personal enjoyment of the show was ruined by the absolutely RIDICULOUS > volume. I had earplugs :) so it wasn't that bad for me....... Derek's playing sorta faded in and out of noticible range all night.....sorta like as if the sound guys just decided to plug him into the mix when he had a solo and no time else..... james was sick, he made a comment like, "hope you're feeling a lot better than me" (or words to that effect)....his performance wasn't bad, no horrible breakdowns....that's because he wasn't even trying to go after his high notes.....it was an interesting experience, me trying to sing (scream?) stuff the way it is on record, and Labrie's voice dropping out of the high range to hit notes and octave or more lower.....made for some odd sounding phrases, totally different from what you're used to hearing....... John Myung was just too freakin' cool.....the chapman stick is an imposing looking instrument....the six-string bass has a neck that looked twice the size of my wrist.... Portnoy's an animal.....threw one stick that nearly hit me in the head.....i woulda got it if my arms weren't fucking down by the crowd..... :) (not kidding, either, it came that close to popping me in the skull)......guy was sure fun to watch, wrecking that monster kit..... anyway.....as soon as I can walk straight again, I'll probably remember this concert with some degree of fondness....after all, it was an incredible performance....but for now, I just gotta be content with saying "I've seen DT!!" (and that's plenty good enuff for me) partha ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:45:58 +0000 From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Bend over Message-ID: > From: CLARK ABEL > Subject: Re: Dickdickdickdickdick :) Bandwidth has never been a serious concern of mine, and I don't think I leaned too heavily on that. Regardless, I won't dignify this post with a full response, as I do not have *ANY* respect for Clark Abel. The simple fact is that some people (like myself) would prefer that the list were utilized in the manner that it was designed for. If you have a problem with that, cry. I don't care. Have a nice day : ) Lovingly Yours, - Chris ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 3184 **************************