YTSEJAM Digest 3181 Today's Topics: 1) pass the jelly / rush / popularity / record companies by Richard Banister 2) possible new names for the Ytsejam by Scotch 3) NDTC - trying to locate Manring's Thonk, early VH stuff by "Scott/Curt Hansen" 4) UNCLASSIFIED:-Re: Intro Music at the DT show by email_address_removed.au 5) Mahavishnu by Richard Banister 6) Perception of art, Kansas by "Ken McWatters" 7) Title meaning? by email_address_removed 8) DT Interview by "Matt Mommaerts" 9) Re: Toronto Show by Lugie 10) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3180 by Deedlit 11) Stratovarius by Paul Dyer 12) CD prices by "Trevor W. Hoit" 13) I NEED 1 TICKET FOR CHICAGO by Ryan Good 14) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3180 by A P Longley ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:34:25 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Banister To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: pass the jelly / rush / popularity / record companies Message-ID: feeling toasty. . . but that's another story. .. just some things before the jam dominates my entire life.. Pat D: > Then there's Devin Townsend's version of Natural Science. I say people > either hate it or love it. There's no in between. I personally think it > is in incredible regardless if it doesn't sound like the original... I love that version. . it inspired me. As for Townsend's vocals, I happen to like them, but many other people I know hate 'em. Strange that all those open minded prog rock fans would ask me "how could you like his vocals? They suck!" Opinions, opinions. .. Devon Townsend also did some stuff with Vai, right? I'm not as well versed in Vai as I really should be (heck I even missed G3 and they played _in my backyard!_) Chad K: > Richard Banister spewed this load (referring to Smashing Pumpkins): and there's plenty more where that came from... > Of course, we all know this isn't the case for DT...DT doesn't write > because they like the music, or feel moved by it...they write it because > it's what the jam wants to hear! Uh, yeah, that's it...now why didn't I was always under the impression that DT wrote music to make money, as prog metal certainly is "the Big Thing" right now... josh: > I think that was nada surf. that was an awesome video! heh > > Sometimes I'll get into a band just because they had a good video, which right-o. .. just remembered who it was. That song was cool as hell for me, the lyrics were so biting, so viscious for the popular crowd, and I was so "unpopular" in high school. . . video examples: Tools 'sober' really did it for me. Of course, that album ended up kicking some major ass, but still, the video was cool. Another one of those albums I put away for months then rediscovered recently.. . > Sarah Mclaughlin, she had a video for the album that came out in '95 or so. > She was trapeizing and stuff...anyway, you never hear that song at all, but > I bought the tape because of it. I love Sarah Mclaughlin... and surprisingly a lot of metal heads do too (along with Tori Amos). 'Fumbling Towards Ecstacy' is a beautiful album... (and no, it's not prog!) Rogerio: > Have you ever heard of the "Obfuscated C Contest". That *is* art. some of my programs get classified as art, as when you try to debug them, they're so messy and convoluted you can't make any sense of them... kind of like modern art these days.. "well, what does it mean?" how would I know? It doesn't even compile! Griswold: > If Store A charges $19 for FII but Store B charges $12......does the $7 > difference go directly to the profit of the store? (If this makes no sense, > I'm sorry) I guess what I'm trying to say is: if a store charges more for a > CD does an extra portion go to the band, etc... ? I would reccomend reading some books on the record industry, and learning about how dream theater and all your other favorite bands get repeatedly screwed in their record deals (apart from the obvious). The way royalties are handled and money distributed to the band *should* be a crime, but it just isn't. . . No matter how much money you pay a retailer for a CD, the band gets the same amount of money (unless you buy from the bargain bin. . then they're screwed). .. but because some record store have special pricing means that DT ultimately doesn't get as much money as they should, as the record companies give away a certain amount of free goods (little more complicated than this), which deducts from the total price of a CD (for which DT gets a percentage of). . meaning less money for them, more money for the record company. I may not be explaining this right, maybe someone who's been there can clarify. .. that's it for now. . . figuratively, Rich ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:39:54 -0500 From: Scotch To: Delirium Tremens Subject: possible new names for the Ytsejam Message-ID: Some possible new names for the Ytsejam: Fightjam Argumentjam Machojam PissingMatchjam ThisIsNotAFlamejam Images&Wordsjam Newbiejam TenTimesADayjam Pointlessjam Unsubscribejam AskAStupidQuestionAndFeelTheWrathOfTheFAQjam FuckYouAndDiejam MassiveSigjam KevinMoorejam MostIntelligentPeopleInTheWorldjam Anti-Anything-That-Isn't-Progjam PrivateEmailjam Opinionjam Metallijam Top10jam Godjam NDTCjam Yannijam What'sJamesSayingAtTheEndOfPullMeUnderjam Elitejam Obsessivejam Selloutjam WhereTheFuckIsBafujam YourMamajam Psychojam Pearljam IronyImpairedjam PageDownjam Grammarjam WhiteMalejam InsideJokejam Can'tWeAllJustGetAlongjam IWillGetTheLastWordIfIHaveToDrawThisThreadOutForWeeksjam IAmTheNumberOneMostHardcoreOriginalDTFanOnThePlanetjam IGotIntoDTBecauseOfThePullMeUnderVideoAndYetISwearIHateMTVjam IfYouDon'tLikeItThenDon'tLetTheDoorHitYouInTheAssOnTheWayOutjam TheVeteransAreLaughingQuietlyAtTheSameTopicsThey'veSeen20TimesAlreadyjam Shitjam Same old same old, Scotchjam. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 22:37:04 -0600 From: "Scott/Curt Hansen" To: Subject: NDTC - trying to locate Manring's Thonk, early VH stuff Message-ID: Hi all! Well, I wuz just kinda wondering if somebody can help me out with a couple thingz - (Graham, your response on how this is not directly about DT will be ignored!) :P First off, last time everybody was raving about Michael Manring's Thonk CD (couple months ago) I tried to order it, but no luck. Can anyone help me get a CD copy of this release??? Also, a while back, I used to have a VH bootleg called Dressed to Kill which was the last show they did at the Pasadena Civic Center. I'm aware this show also was released as the Atomic Punks. Anyway, I was wondering if anyone can help me procure a copy of this show (in the best possible soundquality) on CD or CDR. Another thing is I'd like to get ahold of the demos for the first VH album. Dressed to Kill had several bonus tracks - two of which were the original House of Pain (much better than what ended up on 1984) going into Running With the Devil. If someone can direct me as to getting the demos from those recording sessions as well, I'd appreciate. Please note I am not a huge VH fan, but I have Rush and DT stuff to offer. Thanx all. The next post will have some DT content in it Graham, I promise! :) Scott Hansen email_address_removed ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:46:28 +1000 From: email_address_removed.au To: email_address_removed Subject: UNCLASSIFIED:-Re: Intro Music at the DT show Message-ID: >Well, I don't know if this is true or not, but I know that someone >at the Cleveland show was telling me these songs were from one of James's solo projects. >I do know that Raise the Knife and Where are you now are on the Fix for '96 "tapes", but >I forget how good the quality was. I don't know if anyone out there knows the title to James's solo album (if there is even one..) but I'd love to know know more about it and >where to get it as well... I think someone was pulling your leg Maria, as from other reports from gigs, these songs appear to be the remaining songs from the 'FII' demo sessions that weren't used on the album. 'Speak To Me' is available on the initial pressings of the Japanese import, along with the demo and 'some say better than the album version' of 'Take Away My Pain'. 'Where Are You Now' and 'Raise The Knife' (without vocals) are only available on 'unofficial' albums like 'Guitar Talkin' at the moment. graham.. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:06:44 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Banister To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Mahavishnu Message-ID: Will limit this post to 100k.. . I _really_ need to go to bed. . . > I think the Mahavishnu Orchestra song where they're playing in 19/8 at > 400 bpm is the end of One Word....I think whoever posted that was > actually exaggerating, but it's fucking greased lightning, and it's the yes, I was exagerrating a little (but I did see one of their songs transcribed as around that fast (but were they counting the quarter note or the eighth note? I can't remember)).. . However, I do know for a fact that 'birds of fire' is in 18/8. But that's not that weird, if you think about it. just a buncha sixes. . doesn't make sense to count in six, though... 'One word' is beyond me right now.. it separates jazz from fusion. Whereas a lot of jazz tends to stay in one place progression wise, this is all over the place; structured very 'prog-like' . .. very nice. The outtro is pretty insane. . but the part of that song I like the most is right before the drum solo. This is where DT sits down and shuts up. Guitar plays 4 bars of solo, Keyboard plays four bars, Violin plays four bars. Then they gradually lessen the length of the solos.. . three bars, then two, then 1, then half a measure, a quarter note. . until finally they reach a stunning climax, whereupon everyone goes crazy. .. Beautiful lead in to the drum solo. The buildup is incredible. . . but the most amazing part of that section is that as they go along, they play on each others musical ideas. . it sounds like it's JUST ONE PERSON PLAYING! I love it! need . . . food.. . . figuratively, Rich ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:36:16 PST From: "Ken McWatters" To: email_address_removed Subject: Perception of art, Kansas Message-ID: A Chris Ptacek response: >> you say that art is completely subjective, then you equate Bach with a >> two-year old who beats on the floor with a rock and coos capriciously. > > Any time of any day of any week. Any artist without the inflated >ego would agree. Art is absolutely subjective. If it's not, then >explain what makes one piece of art better than another. Just try >it. You will fail. Oh yeah? Well, um, you see, oh.. well, I give. :) I can say that art may be subjective, but peoples' perceptions of art can be to an extent explained, and thus the music classified in a way to express how most people react to it. Thus the "rock" and "classical" and "rap" sections in a music store. This is why I told my story of the woman leaving a classical music concert crying. I wanted to express how people perceive musical power in more complex music. If they are moved by other forms of art, it's probably in a different way for most people (like a ballad making someone feel powerfully romantic... but not awe-inspired). Take the example about the baby above. If a woman walks away crying from the baby, chances are that it's because she couldn't get him to shut up, instead of anything to do with perceiving his music as awe-inspiring. So again, I'm not talking about whether or not a piece of music is valid but rather how people feel and react when they hear music. My opinion was that awe-inspiring power in certain music made it appealing to me (more appealing than any other feeling I get from music, personally), I gave evidence that I saw someone else who felt the same way, and I submitted that probably most of you reading this feel that way too. Just one of the good things in life we have in common. Let's just call our music powerful rock instead of progressive, eh? Nah, too misleading. And as for the elitism thread, I guess my opinion is that people who don't appreciate DT and other complex music are just "missing out," but that doesn't make them a better or worse person. Neal Brown wrote: >Somebody said Kansas was probably a really huge influence on OFB. I'd >have to agree. Personally, seems to me that Take The Time is very-Kansas >like, particularly the very beginning--the swirly sound in the keys with >the strange tattoo over it (what time sig is that, anybody know? Just >curious.) Innocence Faded also sounds a bit like Kansas to me. In TTT when the bass comes in playing that rhythm alone over the keyboard drone, the music is in 4/4. When the guitar and drums enter, it goes into 5/4 for 3 measures and, well, I'll leave the rest as an exercise for the reader (in other words I didn't feel like trying to mess with the transition into 6/8). Anyway, I haven't seen this mentioned recently, but it does say in the FAQ that Kansas is an influence listed by one or two band members (Portnoy and Petrucci?). And of course they covered Carry On Wayward Son at the Ronnie Scotts gig, which was a tribute to their influences. I do strongly agree with the thread.. Kansas' first 3 or 4 albums are very DT-like, especially Masque, their 3rd. Actually, I always thought that DT kinda borrowed a chord progression from Kansas.. listen to the end/outro of Death of Mother Nature Suite off the first Kansas album and compare it to the outro of Take the Time (the part where it fades to just Kevin's piano, then Mike's drums, Myung and a solo by Petrucci come in, then the chorus is reprised in relatively slow 4/4). So IMO the new album is not the first time I've heard songs by DT that sounded like something I've heard before. I feel it's the inevitable result of your influences showing in your own music. Ken McWatters email_address_removed ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:59:10 -0500 (EST) From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Title meaning? Message-ID: Sorry if this has been asked before, but what is Falling Into Infinity anyway? All of the other titles from their albums were either Titles from songs or lyrics, so where is this from, unless I'm totally an idiot, FII is not a lyric. Thanks for the answer in advance. Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 01:30:43 -0600 From: "Matt Mommaerts" To: Subject: DT Interview Message-ID: <01bce5ce$e582a7a0$message_id_removed> Well... I'm looking forward to the Chicago show this weekend.... and I found out that I get to interview the band before the show... If anyone would like to help me out and e-mail me some questions I could ask... please do so. email_address_removed I'll be a big dood wearing a South Park T-shirt and an NFL on FOX jacket. Matt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 02:32:36 -0500 From: Lugie To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Toronto Show Message-ID: Did anyone notice how much James is trying to be a frontman? He kept cracking jokes the whole time (many of them local: "How are the Leafs doing this year?" crowd responds negatively, James: "Boy, that's somthing new") I was on the right side of the stage about five feet from Petrucci. Were any of the other jammers around there? I kept telling people little tidbits about the pre-show music. Everyone was amazed at what I'd heard on the 'jam ; I think we'll be expanding the listmembers. I really enjoyed Mike's little dance after joking that he'd needed a chiropractor the last time he was in T.O. And what's the deal with all that spitting... I KNOW John P. was spit on more than once! James and Derek are both sexy, sexy men on stage. No wonder they feel animosity towards each other: they're in stage-move competition! :) They should give John M. some lessons on prancing and posing; he's holding on to too much dignity. Did they play RATT as intro music to other shows or is that strictly a Toronto thing? Very odd... ("Round 'n' Round"!?) Does anyone know who the roadies are? Are they younger relatives of the bandmembers? I'm talking about John P.'s guitar tech (he looked about 16yrs old or something) and the guy with the curly hair and NASA shirt? Looks like some kind of child labour thing! :) Seriously, these guys were young.... Great show (no moshing!). Later, Lugie. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mariano Stalker |"Every time I sing in the studio I black out and the email_address_removed.ca | doctor says I'm giving myself these little strokes. | It's like a bad thing..." | -- Devin Townsend (of Strapping Young Lad) Visit me on the Web! Point yer Netscape at: http://qlink.queensu.ca/~4ms28 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 02:47:38 -0500 From: Deedlit To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3180 Message-ID: >Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:02:49 -0800 >From: Carol Dellinger >Subject: The Fire speaks. >TO all those who got what I was saying, Amen! There are voices of >reason on the jam. >who just read but are >afraid to post because they fear that they too will have their posts >torn to shreds all for the sake of analyzation. Hehehe...unfortunately almost ALL mailing lists I've seen are like this. Tsk. We humans are a bitchy little species, huh? Water fowl don't pull this kind of stuff on THEIR mailing lists! ;) >I was not suggesting blind allegiance to DT, but rather reasonable >discussion of reasonable subjects regarding the band. Nor do you see me >post such wonderful lingo as: >"DT rulzzzzzzz! they're like da b0mb, d00d!" >"Did you see James at Toad's? his ass is soooooooo cUte! and JP is >sooooooooo h0t! Okay, I died laughing at this. YOU GO, SISTA! ;) We definitely need more female jammers to drive the guys nuts with this stuff if they're going to drive us nuts with their testosterone...but maybe they'll stop that some time...hahahahaha. :) >I'm just pointing out that there has not been a healthy balance of both >negative and positive posts to the Jam. I hope with the new tour that >there will be alot more positive things to read on the jam. It's a >waste if all you end up doing is having to use that PageDown button. Well, as I said, most mailing lists get bogged down in negativity and nit-picking. If we all make an effort to post neutral information, like "the new BANDX CD is out" instead of "the newest BANDX CD sucked soooo much ass," then we might get somewhere. :) Only 19 and a mailing list veteran.... Erica Bonomi ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Deedlit or Deedo on IRC email_address_removed email_address_removed ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.skidmore.edu/~ebonomi/ JACS PAGES: www.skidmore.edu/~ebonomi/jacs/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:50:01 +0900 From: Paul Dyer To: email_address_removed Subject: Stratovarius Message-ID: Is it just me or do you guys think that the lead singer from Stratovarius looks like Fox Mulder from "X Files"??? However I recommend the 4th Dimension as an album to get! Cheers Paul D. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:56:38 -0800 From: "Trevor W. Hoit" To: "'email_address_removed'" Subject: CD prices Message-ID: I guess what I'm trying to say is: if a store charges more for a >CD does an extra portion go to the band, etc... ? In a word: NO AFAIK, all stores pay around $10-11 for a cd and the rest is purely profit for the store. Recently this base price has been increased by greedy record labels. Stores want to increase or at least maintain thier current profit margin so that is why a lot of new cds are selling at $17.99!! Stores put cds on sale for $11.99 to get you into the store in the hopes that you will by some more expensive product while you're in there. It is also a well documented fact that it costs less to make a cd these days than a cassette, so theoretically cds should be cheaper than cassettes and not the other way around. That'll be the day. -brought to you by Trevor > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:22:36 -0600 From: Ryan Good To: email_address_removed Subject: I NEED 1 TICKET FOR CHICAGO Message-ID: Hey all- I just found out that my non Ytsefriend Tim is going to be able to go to the show in Chicago at the House of Blues. SOMEONE please e-mail me with extra ticket information if you have any. PLEASE PLEASE. *****I NEED 1 TICKET FOR CHICAGO******* _____________________________________________________ "So you tell me you trust me, I can trust you as far as I can throw you." -Dream Theater _____________________________________________________ Ryan Good - Music Stapher from WSUM - Madison's idea of College Radio! - The Unofficial-Official Madison Progressive Rock Monster Home - 608-285-8695 Radio - 608-262-1206 "Madison Student Radio: It's coming!" WSUM/MSR Homepage: http://msr.wisc.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:05:17 +0000 From: A P Longley To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3180 Message-ID: > From: Steve Zebrowski > > Steve Z remarked: > > >Yanni can't read music. It pisses me off that the ignorant masses tout > > >him as a great musician and composer when he doesn't speak the language. > > > > "Speak the language"? Don't be ridiculous. The only language he needs to > > speak is the language of music itself. I don't give a shit if he can't > > write or read music, he composes in his own private shorthand. > > Reading and writing music IS the language of music. If you talked to a > man who seemed very intelligent and well-spoken and then found out that he > could not read or write that still makes him just as illiterate. But that doesn't make whatever he's got to say any less worthwhile! " reading and writing IS the language of music" ? BullSHIT! Melody and harmony is the language of music and they are things that you feel and hear inside your head, that make you shiver, that make you laugh that make you cry. Music can be written down for practical reasons, but the joy of music, for me, is to recreate emotion. Doesn't anyone else feel this way? A man who cannot read or write is illiterate - DUH... that's what the word means! But he can still fall in love, get a broken heart, make friendships, lose friendships, " feel elated, feel depressed " etc... HE IS STILL ALIVE ! And so he feels just as strongly as we feel. And therefore if he can play any note he hears in his head on his instrument, he is as much a " musician " as any of us. > I also happen to think that the music sounds like he doesn't know what > he's doing. My opinion. I'm not saying it sounds like random garbage, > but that it sounds like if I asked him what he did harmonically at a > certain point he would say, "i don't know." I think you'll find he would say " I did this..." and play it for you again , " there.." he would say, " don't you understand? " But perhaps you wouldn't, because it sounds like it is you who doesn't understand the language of music, the language of emotion, of expression. > Dimebag Darrell doesn't read music. I think he is a HELL of a player, but > my respect for him must be knocked down a few notches because of not being > a well-rounded musician. I think our respect for you has just suffered the same fate. > I must quote John Petrucci here: "...a piece of manuscript paper--that's > the best home studio." Hey, if we're quoting Dream Theater, how about, " Just close your eyes, you can find all you need in your mind. " Wow, big rant...back me up here guys... See you UK folks on 9th Dec, Adrian. L ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 3181 **************************