YTSEJAM Digest 3175 Today's Topics: 1) Rush Tribute by Jeremy Kube 2) Good to be back on the Jam! by Andrew Brodie 3) Re: odd sigs by email_address_removed (Ernesto Schnack) 4) Re: odd sigs by "James Thorpe" 5) two questions by "jason braswell" 6) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3174 by "Jason Birzer" 7) Odd sigs. . by Richard Banister 8) oops. . . by Richard Banister 9) by Richard Banister 10) Live and Let Die by "Andrew Fors" 11) More DT thoughts from the Fire! by Carol Dellinger 12) by "Neal Brown" 13) YYZ by Steffen Barabasch 14) Acid Bath by Phillip 15) 7 Wndrs/Spng Yrs by Jan Ziese 16) 'watchful.eye' Rush MP3 compilation by "Ryan Whitaker" 17) odd sigs by Anna & Heike Boedeker ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 00:01:56 -0500 From: Jeremy Kube To: email_address_removed Subject: Rush Tribute Message-ID: I must say that this album is a 50/50 one for me. I saw this because I enjoyed about 50% of the work on the album. I have to just ask one question.. Who invited Mark Slaughter to work on this album? Were they smoking a lot of crack when they thought to include him? What a joke.. Slaughter is cool doing their own little thing, but doing Rush..yuck. I enjoyed Portnoy's playing on this CD quite a bit. You can really tell that Peart has had an enourmous influence on MP. Although, I kind of get the feeling that MP was trying to 'show him up' a little. Now my rambling about MP. I enjoy what he does (most of the time) He is an outstanding player, and I know that I will probably get flammed into next year with this but I think that he fills too much. I think that (sometimes) he overplays (just a tad) He doesn't overplay in the idea that he has something to prove, just plain overplays. Now, I for one will admit that he can outplay me anytime\anyplace, and I for one WILL NEVER say that MP is bad or sucks. He is one of my favorites. Peart is my favorite because out of all of the drummers that I have listened to, he really maps out exactly what he plans to do and asks for a series of opinions and asks questions like "Is this overdone?" or "should I ease up here a little" or "What do you think". He seems to just have a more flowing beat, simple yet sophisticated and overall, just makes the whole piece more flowing. He has a godfather type approach to the drums. He kind of knows it all. I think, with time that MP will play at NP's level. He will discover the secrets the NP holds. Now a big question, will MP cut his hair and switch to a traditional grip? Time will only tell.. ROCK ON.. J ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 23:18:21 -0600 From: Andrew Brodie To: email_address_removed Subject: Good to be back on the Jam! Message-ID: Greets everyone! Just wanted to drop a quick note to let everyone know I'm back on the Jam. After getting dropped with about half the user list, I finally got around to resubscribing. Cya all on the Jam and on #ytsejam (TearyEyes)! ----- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew C. Brodie | Visit GoCyclones! on the WWW: Interative Media | www.amestrib.com Assitant, Ames Tribune | Brought to you by the Ames Tribune ------------------------------------------------------------------- E-mail: email_address_removed or email_address_removed Personal WWW site: www.ames.net/andrew/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- ... The wise owl says, "T H I N K about it .... " --------------------------------------------- _^_ "Perhaps it is better to wake up after all, <*,*> even to suffer; than to remain a dupe to [( )] illusions all ones life." -"-"- ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 00:16:11 -0500 From: email_address_removed (Ernesto Schnack) To: Subject: Re: odd sigs Message-ID: > *doesn't*. It's not so much the Metro bridge type stuff that gets to me (in > this way) as it is the really subtle time changes in Peruvian, or the > perfectly-normal-feeling-until-you-count-it-out verses in Surrounded. Yeah, im actually quite impressed of that stuff as well. PS especially. It sounds so natural. But at the same time, it didn't revolutanize my approach to music or anything like that. I dont mind playing everything in 4/4:) Although an odd time does occasionally sneak in... E ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:24:54 -0800 From: "James Thorpe" To: Subject: Re: odd sigs Message-ID: <01bce4f4$27527600$LocalHost@mpeywdzn> >> are exceptions). I guess I've just never understood the obsession with odd >> sigs that so many ppl here have. I guess when I discovered what odd meters were about, it was something that was refreshing and challenging to learn. I'd been so used to playing in 4/4 that I felt naked out of water doing odd stuff. It's just another way to write different rthyms or solos. I don't purposely write for the sake of odd meter but it may happen to turn out in 7, 13 or whatever. Its the same way for scales. > >For me, it's not so much the fact that the meter changes. It's the >fact that here's a tool that the average band can't/won't/doesn't >know how/is afraid to use, that Rush/DT/whomever sprinkles around >like... well, sprinkles, that really ought to totally fuck up the way you >tap your foot to the song, and *doesn't*. Exactly!! hehe. I would always get a kick watching people try to headbang to DT :) peace, --james-- third heaven studio "We don't like their sound, and guitar music is on the way out." * Decca Recording Co. rejecting the Beatles, 1962. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:06:47 PST From: "jason braswell" To: email_address_removed Subject: two questions Message-ID: Two questions here: Does DT ever read this stuff when they're board and laugh at our silly attempts to analyze their shit? And a totally unrelated question, someone a while back mentioned some song with crazy ass time sig and a really fast beat (something like 400 or so) by the Mahavishnu Orch. Would you mind repeating it? I just got Innermounting Flame and Bird of Fire, just curious. Excuse the bad sentence structure. jason ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 01:03:59 -0500 From: "Jason Birzer" To: Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3174 Message-ID: >I once heard that Stairway was the most played song on radio, ever. But >I've always kind of doubted that. . . for one thing, it's eight minutes >long. I've heard it a number of times on the radio, but _nobody_ plays >eight minute songs anymore. . . I would have thought something else (I >also heard something about the Rolling Stones' 'satisfaction' being one of >the biggest songs ever, which I think is credible). Also, you hear some >pseudo-punk pop song every 15 minutes when you listen to radio. . howcum >they aren't the biggest? That was probably true through the mid to late 80s. That is a long time to get a lot of airplay from the early 70s. I don't think that it is true now because radio has changed so much since then. Radio is just one big marketing ploy to buy the crap that is out there. >Reminds me of 'Baywatch' being the most popular show in the world. . . But >I don't know anybody who watches Baywatch (or at least admits to it).. >maybe I know the wrong people. . . The key word is "world". Baywatch has a giant following all over the world. David Hasselhoff is a big star in Europe. (why an area that loves DT so much, yet thinks that David Hasselhoff is a big star is a mystery to me. Can someone else explain it? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jason Birzer "One likes to believe in the freedom of music "The Longshot" but glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity." email_address_removed Rush - The Spirit Of Radio -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 01:24:56 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Banister To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Odd sigs. . Message-ID: Ernesto: > Am I the only musician here not overly impressed by odd-time sigs? I mean, > i dunno, I've never found them that impressive, and they definitely arent a > reason why I like DT. In fact when I'm learning a part with odd time, I > dont even count it out...I just try to get the feel of it. (Of course there > are exceptions). I personally like the concept of a sig really thowing off the natural rythm. . . It seems the body has a natural rythm of 4/4 (perhaps because of the beating of the heart. . although I tried for a while to see it as 5/8), and that makes music in 4/4 danceable, etc. .. I like the concept that something in a diff sig that completely throws you off when you think about it. .. of course, I enjoy the subtle appeal of them to (as in WTF, surrouded), but things like the middle of Met (and almost all of LTL) just get me right there. It makes me want to learn how to play them.. as for counting, if you do it by feel, then in my opinion, you're doing it right. After all, the most important part of a song (IMO) is how it feels. 5, 6, and 7 (and all the others) have a definite different feel than regular 4.. The power of them are really in how you use them, though. This is why I'm hoping that Met pt II isn't completely "insane," and has some coherence. BTW, one of my favorite tricks in songwriting is to throw an extra beat in at the beginning or end of a measure (sort of like the solo section of Ytsejam). .. if done right, it makes the song heavy as fuck. . . figuratively, Rich ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 01:28:04 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Banister To: The Ytsejam Subject: oops. . . Message-ID: The song WTF mentioned in my last post _should_ have been WFS...(although WTF is what I said the first time I tried to learn LTL. ..) Hmm.. . shows what's on my mind, I guess. . . figuratively, Rich ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 01:45:45 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Banister To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Message-ID: Okay, _brief_ response to Seroussi. . . > I've heard that the Smashing Pumpkins' guitarist was having a small improvisational > show with some jazz guitarists (Al DiMeola & some others)...each one had some 3 > minutes solos etc. Well, I know that SPs old drummer was well trained in Jazz, and was actually a very good drummer (so is, in my opinion, the drummer from Dave Matthews band). I think Billy Corgan used to be a metal player (if that makes him a "good" player we will leave to debate another day), but I don't really care about him because he's an asshole. . . and Helmets guitarist/singer is very well versed in Jazz guitar. There are more examples, but the point is, they choose their style of music because that's what they most enjoy writing, and that's the method by which they convey their emotion the best (all arguments about whether that music sucks or not aside). Now, I don't know if this is the case or if they do it to make money, but I would assume the former.. > Ok, let's clear that up...I'm not a fan of anything...fan are fanatics and > I don't want to be one of these... well, I meant fan as in someone who likes something, not realizing that you were to take it as fanatic.. .but whatever. . doesn't really matter.. > New metallica is blues based hard rock, thank you very much... No, new metallica just sucks. . . ;) > Sepultura is HUGE... I've never heard them on the radio. . . but again, whatever... > Dare you compare Barbie girl with Ride the Lightning? Everyone keeps talking about Barbie Girl. . but I've never even heard it.. someone told me the lyrics, but I don't remember them. What's the deal with this song? Oh yeah. . .and Ride the Lightning moved me _very_ deeply. . . (well, not quite that deeply. It did make me think a little, though... and if you think that's weird, it's because I have a weird outlook on life) > but Barbie girl brings out a message about real life, which is important too, to > an extent... Anyone remember that song a while ago by ..some band.. called "popular?" Teenage guide to being popular. . that song was very straightforward, but I loved the message behind it. . I think that's a whole new subject: lyrical subtlety vs. blatancy, and which work better (in our _opinions_, obvously).. > if you be messin' wit' me mama you be going down, foo'! I went down on your momma, if that's what you mean. . . :P figuratively, Rich ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 00:54:23 -0600 From: "Andrew Fors" To: email_address_removed Subject: Live and Let Die Message-ID: On 29 Oct 97 at 15:09, email_address_removed wrote: > > >> Live and let live! <-- Gee, that's such a SIMPLE sentence :) > > > > >> actually, jon, it's "live and let die". (it's a Beatles song... you > >> should remember them, you're old.) ;) > > > Actually it was just McCartney for the Bond movie of the same > >title.... > > Actually it was Wings (Paul McCartney's band)... Was it? I thought the Bond CD just credited McCartney. Oh well. Andrew Fors email_address_removed http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/2119 ----------------------------------- Sometimes a view from sinless eyes Centers our perspective And pacifies our cries Sometimes the anguish we survive And the mysteries we nurture Are the fabrics of our lives "Lines in the Sand" Dream Theater - Falling into Infinity ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 23:20:51 -0800 From: Carol Dellinger To: "email_address_removed" Subject: More DT thoughts from the Fire! Message-ID: Let me preface by saying that it's been a while between serious posts from me, but after reading (lurking) for a while, I just have to get this off my chest! Piss moan, bitch groan, rant rave, on and on! Lately it seems as if there is too much grumbling and and not enough good stuff about DT! Come on people! This the Ytsejam! Not the Ytsewhine! This is a list for people who are fans of DT, who support their music and who recognize their incredibly brilliant talent! A list for reasonable intellegent discussion. But lately.....? Some people are never happy. It took HOW long to get FII out and when it's out all some people could do was tear it to pieces. Dream Theater could play a concert in their backyard and they still wouldn't be happy and would find something to complain about! Someone once told me.....We fear what we do not understand. We critisize what we ourselves cannot do. If you people can do what DT does so well, any better...then get up there and do it! As for FII! I finally got it (Thanks Pineapple King!) and at first listen 1 or 2 tunes leapt up and grabbed me. But after listening to it continually since last Friday I LOVE THE WHOLE CD! It's amazing! It's still DT and It STILL moves me like nothing else! And it still makes me feel like I'm floating when I listen to it in the dark! It's completely different from I&W and Awake but yet.....IT'S STILL DREAM THEATER! So let's stop for a moment and remember that we are here because a love for the music from these guys. And let's also take a moment to thank Skadz for maintaining both the list and the channel and D-Man for the FAQ! These guys don't do this for money or recognition! They do this out of love...repsect for the talent and music and vision that is Dream Theater! There's too much grumbling and not enough thanking! THANKS GUYS! I appreciate what you do! Okay......now I know I'm gonna catch hell from this....but I felt it had to be said. Just a few words from me....... Coldfire "The flame at the heart of a pawnbroker's diamond." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 23:27:42 PST From: "Neal Brown" To: email_address_removed Message-ID: >When shit like that sounds like it's supposed to be there... that's magic. Couldn't agree more. Writing in something stoopid like 37/64 might be a great intellectual exercise (the understatement of the year?) but if it sounds like crap, or you stick a few measures of it into a song "just because," I think that's kind of pompous....we're going to do this because we can. But when you write a melody that just so happens to be weird rhythmically but would sound awkard if you fourced it into a conventional sig (Brubeck--Take Five, or better yet, Far More Blue/Far More Drums--perfect examples...Take Five is so fluid, but it's the first important jazz tune in 5/4, as I understand).....yeah =) >reason why I like DT. In fact when I'm learning a part with odd >time, I dont even count it out...I just try to get the feel of it. Me too. I hardly ever count anything, actually. Even in straight 4/4 (well, *especially* in straight 4/4). My teacher is always yelling at me about that (count it dammit! hehehe) but when I count things, I tend to get all screwed up. (Don't hate me because I've got rhythm...) (About Neil Peart's lyrical talent) >is that most of what he writes doesn't make a lot of sense, but when >he hits it, he _really_ hits it... Yeah, actually, now that I think about it NP has done some pretty good lyrics. I was actually thinking about "Time And Motion" while I was posting--"the might ocean dances with the moon, the silent forest echoes with the loon." WTF? I do recall that some of the stuff on Moving Pictures was good...sorry, I'm not a Rush freak, so I don't have the shit committed to memory like I do with DT =) "Witch Hunt" was pretty cool lyrically...I've always liked "Freewill" too... P.S. Fibonnaci's sequence? I hadn't even thought of it. EEEEK. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:43:40 +0100 From: Steffen Barabasch To: email_address_removed Subject: YYZ Message-ID: Hi! Just saw this: >impressed by Dean Castronovo (also of Steve Vai fame). . I've heard a lot >of opinions on him (for example, someone I met at Birch Hill in 96 hated >the way he sped up YYZ. . .), but I personally think he's great.. . Well, this guy should listen to DT's version of YYZ (I think it was on InstruMENTAL 2). It's so sped up, it's not funny anymore. I love it. Steffen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 03:49:48 +0000 From: Phillip To: email_address_removed Subject: Acid Bath Message-ID: Someone commented on Acid Bath. Well, they are from down here (in Louisiana) and they seem to have a fairly big following for some odd reason. The music is mostly death metal with the vocals supposedly being the big deal. People make a big deal about their singer and how "versatile" he is with a death/"clean"/shriek style sounds cooler typing it than it actually is. From what I've heard of them, they really didn't do much for me. And no, it's not because it's too heavy for me. I like Samael, Carcass, Cradle of Filth, Strapping Young Lad and other fun bands of the sort. For a more progressive, heavier, and better vocal style, check out Cea Serin at: http://members.aol.com/CeaSerin/CeaSerin.html yes, i'm biased but if the music's good, so what? Later Phillip Cool CD of the day: Conception "Flow" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 97 11:06:33 +0100 From: Jan Ziese To: email_address_removed Subject: 7 Wndrs/Spng Yrs Message-ID: Hi all of you: (I know, this has been said before, but I can't resist) Yesterday I got the 'Seven Wonders' and 'Spinning Years' CDs from Ryan Whitaker. I really didn't know what to expect since I had never listened to mp3 before. I must admit, I had some doubts. First impression: Those CDs KICK ASS on a huge scale. The sound quality seems to be limited almost solely by the source material that's been used, which is up to the task in most cases, especially on 'Spinning Years'. So, getting 20+ hrs. of rare DT music for a mere 50- bucks including postage is a deal of a lifetime, IMO :). I dare everybody on this list to get those CDs ASAP (Visit http://www.geocities.com/soho/2236). However, remember that you have to have a pretty decent PC system (Pentium) to listen to the stuff at a high sample rate and thus get most out of its potential... Thanks Ryan, great job! And special thanks for the FAST turnaround time. Jan - jzi@star-ag.ch ------------------------------------------------------------------ - It's lawless. It changes people. It's called music with rocks - - in it. It's got a beat and you can dance to it, but... - - It's alive. And it won't fade away. - - ('Soul Music' by Terry Pratchett. Uh, it's a book, not a song) - ------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ------------------------------------------------------------- --- -- Jan Ziese - jzi@star-ag.ch -- -- - -- STAR AG - Wiesholz 35 - CH-8262 Ramsen - Switzerland -- - -- -- Tel.: +41 (0) 52 - 742 92 51 - Fax: 742 92 92 -- ---- ------------------------------------------------------------ ----- ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 04:10:57 -0600 From: "Ryan Whitaker" To: Subject: 'watchful.eye' Rush MP3 compilation Message-ID: <19971030101245.AAA16657@hombre> My first Rush MP3 bootleg, "watchful.eye", is coming along nicely.. verrrry nicely in fact. I still haven't decided what boots will make the final cut, but rest assured that there will be at least 11 hours of the best Rush bootlegs available on it. I finished the cover tonight, and I put a picture of it up on the web page (URL below). It looks really awesome. =) I still have around 40 "Seven Wonders" discs left, and about 210 "Spinning Years" discs left (both are Dream Theater). Feel free to browse around my ever-growing catalog of limited edition MP3 compilation discs, the inexpensive way to hear all the boots you've missed. Also still available in unlimited quantities are replicas of the best Dream Theater pre-FII tour boot, "Caught in Amsterdam '97". Take care, Ryan Whitaker http://www.geocities.com/soho/2236 email_address_removed ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 13:05:34 +0100 From: Anna & Heike Boedeker To: email_address_removed Cc: email_address_removed (Ernesto Schnack) Subject: odd sigs Message-ID: +------ | OK, this 'intellect vs. stupidity' thread got me thinking about something. | Am I the only musician here not overly impressed by odd-time sigs? I | mean, i dunno, I've never found them that impressive, and they | definitely arent a reason why I like DT. In fact when I'm learning a | part with odd time, I dont even count it out...I just try to get the | feel of it. (Of course there are exceptions). I guess I've just never | understood the obsession with odd sigs that so many ppl here have. +------ I'm not too *impressed* by odd sig, polyrhythmic etc. stuff though I'm using it pretty often as I like the *expressive* quality of it as I for one can react to it *emotionally* pretty directly (obviously I'm not too straightforward a personality :-)), i.e. I neither count instead of listening to DT, FW, Rush, McLaughlin, Embryo, Pierre Moerlen's Gong, Arabic or Classical Indian music, or whatever, nor instead of playing... also this does not mean that I couldn't have fun w/ 4/4, too... 'acourse in order to get there I worked quite obsessively as I started out some 20 years ago, like sitting down going "I'm now gonna write some stuff in 17+4/4" whereas now I first get ideas and then start counting or also let it simply be... Best, Heike ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 3175 **************************