YTSEJAM Digest 3169 Today's Topics: 1) SFK's FII review by Jan Ziese 2) Another post by me... by Seroussi 3) Pretentious prog rockers??? by Luke 4) Re: ofb by Rogerio Brito 5) Re: People's Opinions Of Music by "Joshua B. Wingell" 6) I'm really sorry, it won't happen again... by Seroussi 7) DT in Columbus!!! by email_address_removed (Dan Temmesfeld) 8) RE: DC dates by "Blevins, Mike" 9) Opeth....Again?? by Paul Dyer 10) FII REVIEW FROM SFK !!! by richard@capitale.qc.ca (Richard James) 11) Re: tour history by "Christopher R. Merlo" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Oct 97 12:39:45 +0100 From: Jan Ziese To: email_address_removed Subject: SFK's FII review Message-ID: Hi there: Hope this hasn't been posted so far. SFK's FII review (pretty early, huh?): Kurt's picks: ------------- DREAM THEATER - FALLING INTO INFINITY (A-) EastWest, 1997 In what's already becoming the most analyzed album this year, DT's latest has it's both good and bad which mirrors all their other releases. In other words, when they're firing on all cylinders no one can touch them. But, there are times when they get carried away with themselves and let some songs go on a tad too long (though not as much as in the past). A perfect example of this is opener "New Millenium". What begins as a killer of a song becomes long and drawn out. "Peruvian Skies" gave me the same feeling, though not as much. But, with this release the songs have a more concise feel, that to me, make the all the difference. "You Not Me" is probably the most commercial song on offer (next to the ballads) and is just a great driving rocker. Same with "Burning My Soul". Their ballads are the best songs this time out though. Lyrically and musically songs like "Hollow Years" and "Take Away My Pain" just left me breathless. I'm glad I waited an extra issue to review this as the more I listened to it, the more I liked it. And you know what, it might get better still. Along with Tiles "Fence The Clear", THE prog-metal album of the year. Bye, Jan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:08:16 +0100 From: Seroussi To: email_address_removed Subject: Another post by me... Message-ID: <34572730.C5475B41@algonet.se> Am I the only one who can't access the chroma key webpage? ---- > From: Richard Banister > Subject: success/something else/what were we talking about? > > Have a popular suck-ass band cover one of their pieces, and watch > people flock to it! Oh, wait. . that would require said band to > have some base artistic ability.. nevermind. Guess it'll never > happen... Methinks it will only require motoric ability, not artistic ability... Ok, this may have nothing to do with what you're saying but anyways: I've heard that the Smashing Pumpkins' guitarist was having a small improvisational show with some jazz guitarists (Al DiMeola & some others)...each one had some 3 minutes solos etc. Now, is that true? The person that was talking about it on the metallica ng said that after listening to that he ran out and bought all the smashing pumpkins CDs... ;) You can imagine how disappointed he was...so, can some alternative guitarists actually play guitar, but they compose crap for the money? ---- > From: Richard Banister > Subject: Don't hate me because I can do everything > > I'm gonna keep it short. . you people are probaly sick of hearing from my > by now. . I get the same feeling about myself... > > > I have a friend who was a real metal-head. He listened to metallica, > > > megadeth, pantera and sepoltura. > > > > That doesn't sound like a "real metal-head"...more like a metal-poser... > > I was about to let the strain die, then this? But seriously. . the term > "real (insert type of music) fan" really bothers me. . . As I said, he didn't really persue and looked for other bands than the mainstream metal bands... > if you like the music, you're a fan. Ok, let's clear that up...I'm not a fan of anything...fan are fanatics and I don't want to be one of these... > Maybe you're not as obsessed as, say, us, but you're a fan nonetheless. > And like it or not, metallica, megadeth et. all still classify as metal New metallica is blues based hard rock, thank you very much... > Oh yeah. .. sepultura, mainstream? What? Sepultura is HUGE... Reverant is small... > but if you listen to the average metal song (alright, this means anything > from metallica to obituary. . they all have something to say). The > lyrics are often more thought provoking than your average poppy song > (average = you know what I'm trying to say). . . I refuse to put any > examples in because I would have to then prove this, and that is beyond > the scope of this post. Dare you compare Barbie girl with Ride the Lightning? My point is, none of these songs is very poetic or figurative... Barbie girl = a song with a straightforward message RtL = a song with a straightforward message Some may think that RtL is more "mature" since it deals with electrecution, etc. but Barbie girl brings out a message about real life, which is important too, to an extent... The lyrics are not that great, anyways... > However, I was right, and you were wrong. ;) Never! > But then, that's what your mom said! ... I can't decide if that's bad or good. if you be messin' wit' me mama you be going down, foo'! ---- > From: Rogerio Brito > Subject: Metallica, Dream Theater and IQ (Re: wtf?) > > On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, Seroussi wrote: It took you some time to respond to that... > Well, I really think that many people may find that post telling > the release date of "ReLoad" interesting. Well, I think I should post about the new design of bathrooms, since DT uses them! > And I don't know the limits of what should or what shouldn't be > posted on this list. Every single subject may or may not be viewed as an > appropriate thing to post here. Things that have something to do with DT: intelligence, my posts. Things that have nothing to do with DT: Metallica, music. > Let's remember that the opening letter we all receive when we > subscribe to the Ytsejam Mailing List tells us that we are allowed to talk > about bands related to Dream Theater. And if Metallica weren't related to > Dream Theater, we wouldn't have: No, the opening letter says this mailing list is dedicated to the discussion of DT and other PROG METAL bands... > * The "Damage, Inc." song officially included in their setlist on > January 31st, 1995 show at "Ronnie Scott's"; > * John Petrucci saying in a Guitar Clinic here in Brazil that one > of the groups that he likes is Metallica. It is _very_ easy to get official information about Metallica. http://www.metclub.com > BTW, Seroussi, I think that sometimes you just post for the sake > of contradicting someone. Hey, I'm not someone who posts saying "me too" or something along that lines... this is what we have aolers for... ;) > Please, understand that people have different opinions and that > you have to respect their right to state what they think, even if you > don't agree with their point. I respect that, you also have to respect my right to disagree and show my disagreement with people... > Hope you pacifically undestand my point and don't flame me, Hope you don't take me too seriously... Which reminds me: take it easy, if someone disgrees with you it doesn't mean this person hates you... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:37:26 +1000 From: Luke To: ytsejam Subject: Pretentious prog rockers??? Message-ID: Just like to throw my 2¢ worth in on the whole topic of 'average dickheads' and IQs etc... In the Nov. '96 copy of Modern Drummer there is review for 'Supernatural Fairy Tales: The Progressive Rock Era", a double CD compilation of various artists generally from the '70 to '80 era. The reviewer, who happens to be a fan of prog, writes; "...of being castigated by every three chord punk who labeled our music pretentious, anitseptic, anti-rock and hopelessly Caucasian. Oh, we tried to spread the word..." Upon reading this I dismissed these claims, (which *were* most likely the sort of slings and criticisms that prog had hurled at it) as just jealous, pathetic ramblings by those "three chord punks" simply 'cause prog musicians could out-play the shit out of them. But just now, with some of the posts of Jammers like Neal Brown, I must confess these "pretentious, antiseptic" slingings may not seem so unreal. Not so because of the attitudes of the musicians as individuals, but most probably because of 'elitist' stance taken by several fans of the prog genre. Enter; several of the previous posts on the subject of intellegence and 'average dickheads'. I can see were some of these claims are coming from...but they're attacking with the wrong weapon for this battle. The Jammers who continue to claim superior intellect just because 'they listen to DT and DT happen to be far more technically adept than a band like Green Day', IMHO, are confusing their intensely devoted passion for DT with claims of 'higher intellect'. It's easy for someone take this kind of approach...we all know how awesome DT truly are....we all feel that deep emotional stirring whenever we listen to epics like LTL;....so why do people still listen that Rap shit ?....Obviously because they're a dickhead right ?...Or maybe they've got a lower IQ ?. Well, no, they don't. It's because they have different perogatives when it comes to music. I have a friend who, when it comes to cars, perfectly fits the stereotypical image of a 'rev-head'. He loves nothing more than to work on his car, continually refining and modifying it until it resembles somewhat of a 'mechanical Utopia'. The sort of cars he likes are awesome, super-charged, finely tuned beasts with the all extras like Mag wheels, tinted windows..blah, blah, like the types of cars you see in those Street Machine magazines. To me however, all this 'hotted-up' car shit, just seems like a huge pile of crap. How could someone get that fanatical about a f**ken car ? I tell my friend what I think of his passion for automobiles...I ask him stuff like, "why do you bother with all this shit ? Why don't you just get a standard car that does the job of transporting you around adequately and leave it at that ?", and then he replies with something like, "I just like to have a car that is more than just something that is stock-standard. I want a car that feels awesome to drive and has far superior mechanical organisation to that of a standard car. I want to work on my car, I want to understand how it operates, I want my car to be special." I then reply, "I don't really give shit about that, I just want a car that takes me from point A to point B without using up much petrol", then he says, "yeah, well that's OK." OTOH, when the topic comes to music, the whole attitude scenario quickly reverses itself. Here I am, with all my DT and FW albums and there he is with his radio-friendly-crap albums. While listening to my CDs, he asks me, "why do you listen to this sort of stuff ? It sounds so obscure and f**ked up". Drawing my deepest breath, I then release with a huge onslaught of reasons why I "listen to this sort of stuff." I throw aspects of time sig changes and polyrythmic dynamics at him, I throw exmaples of thoughtful, cryptic lyrics at him, I show him songs like LTL and Scarred and say, "how can this not move you ?!, why do *you* listen to the crap *you* listen to ?". At this stage he's got the same sort of look on his face as I do when he starts raving on about his car. He simply says, "I just want something that's easy to listen to, just some tunes or a groove in the background." Still I can't accept that sort of reasoning. To me, that means he's just an 'average dickhead' or he must have a lower IQ than me simply because he doesn't share the passion I have for music of DT's calibre. This is where the point of my post comes to clarity. Who really is the dickhead ? Is it my friend because he doesn't listen to music the same way I do, or is it me, because I can't accept his musical perogatives in the same way he *can* accept my disinterest in cars ? I think it's pretty obvious who is the dickhead here...(self-flammage) Don't get me wrong, I *do* believe that someone who chooses not to listen to DT *is* missing out. The awe and rapture that one experiences from listening to DT is nothing that could ever be recreated by the shit radio dishes up to us. But if someone chooses to listen to radio then that's their choice. Just be content with knowing that they *are* missing out, but you're *not*. Also, please don't confuse my point with saying that DT are no better and no worse than a band like Green Day. > beats the living bejeezus out of, say, Green Day. Stick those poor > bastards in the middle of Metropolis, ACOS, or Light Fuse and they are > *fucked*. They'll have no idea how to play that stuff, whereas OFB > could play any Green Day song they damn well pleased and may actually > do a better job of it. ;) Couldn't agree more with this. But the technical stuff is only a part of the entire DT package we all know and love. Just because DT happens to be quite technically proficient is not some kind of springboard for *anyone* who listens to DT to go out declaring 'superior intellect'. You're *not* some kind of genius because you can appreciate DT's music, rather you're preference in your music allows to you access this unique and truly epic collaboration of music. Thank you for listening. Luke. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 10:59:21 -0200 (EDT) From: Rogerio Brito To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: ofb Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Trevor W. Hoit wrote: > Brain fart, what's OFB? Humm... It means Our Favorite Band, if I'm not mistaken. []s, Roger... -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - email_address_removed.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html "Life is ours, we live it our way (...) / And nothing else matters" James Hetfield (Metallica), Nothing Else Matters =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 97 07:54:09 EST From: "Joshua B. Wingell" To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: People's Opinions Of Music Message-ID: >Witnessing (and scanning quickly through) the debate about why people like >different kinds of music reminds me of something. In college many years ago >(over 10), I did a psych project that assessed people's thoughts about >different types of music, what they thought about it, why they felt that >way, and so on. Part of it was filling out a short survey, and I will never >forget the comment from one high school student: "I only like songs I >know." This, to me, sums up why much of the public goes for Top 40 music. >It doesn't challenge them. It's lowest common denominator entertainment, >like much of TV and bestselling books (for those that still bother to read >books, anyway). Just some of my thoughts. I wrote this usenet posting in alt.music.dream-theater a few weeks ago asking why people love Dream Theater music. Take a look. Its a bit mushy in places, but I think it gets my point across :) --included message-- Subj: FII, taking the time, and waking up I have been listening to Dream Theater ever since a friend of mine turned me on to IAW. One thing has remained persistant through every new DT album I have ever purchased. It takes time and many listenings for me to love the music. This is not to say that I disliked the music the first time I heard it. But music is a funny thing. Its quite easy to memorize a song (but why can't I memorize history? ;) Dream Theater is different, though. I usually have to listen to one of their albums at least seven or eight times before I memorize the music. But once I do, you would have to pry the CD from my hands. Yet, music from other groups doesn't affect me in this way. I can generally make a judgement on a song the first time I hear it (love it, hate it). And even then, even if I do like the music, it never stays with me as long as DT's music has. Why is this? I believe that it is because Dream Theater's music is extremely complex. Changing tempos, complex rythms, etc are all difficult to memorize. I think that maybe I enjoy the music more when I know in my head what notes are coming next. And once I have taken the time to learn the music, it is so deep within me that I just couldn't possibly let it go. FII was this way for me, as were the rest of my DT CDs. If you don't like FII, "Take The Time" to let yourself learn to love it. Music so complex can take a while to embed itself deep within your soul :-) One exception to this trend in complex music was I Mother Earth's "Scenery and Fish". I loved that music from the get-go. Powerful stuff. I am not sure why it hit me so hard. But like I said, music is a funny thing. I look forward to their next realease. Josh --end of message-- >Dave Thomas - Pixel Planet Hey, don't you have a line of resturants? :) I bet you never get that from anyone! :)) New Haven rocked...you guys who have not seen this tour yet, prepare to be amazed! Josh ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:13:09 +0100 From: Seroussi To: email_address_removed Subject: I'm really sorry, it won't happen again... Message-ID: <34573665.38A4AE87@algonet.se> > From: "Vincent G. LuPone" > Subject: Seriously now...DT, Metallica, FW, MD bitchings and praises :) > > Let's start with Megadeth. I know I'm being picky (being as the new album > fookin' ROCKS!), but I hate the guitar tone on CW. If it was the same as > on CtE or Youthanasia, there would be no problems for me. The rest of the > music on the CD is all top notch, everything but the guitar tone. Am I the only one who thinks the drumming (the lines themselves, not the production) on this album is really really really boring? > Man, for the first time ever, I'm pissed at this band. Hetfield basically > says fuck you to all the fans that have been with the band the longest. > Something like "Metallica is all about not giving a fuck". It's called "being an artist"...you know, when you do what you what you want, regardless of what others think of it... (ignoring the fact that they are making crap...) ---- > From: "Trevor W. Hoit" > Subject: ofb > > Brain fart, what's OFB? Our Favorite Band. (FAQ him, D-Man) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 08:23:26 -0500 (EST) From: email_address_removed (Dan Temmesfeld) To: email_address_removed Subject: DT in Columbus!!! Message-ID: whoa!!! all i can say is..."WOW!" the best concert i've EVER been to, hands down. so tight, so unbelievably amazing...2 hours of straight DT phenomenal per- formance. i have the LiT and the Awake PPV videos, but actually *being there* is so much more intense. i can't even describe it ..geez. breathless, Dan ---+ +--- Dan Temmesfeld - dantemm (at) erinet (dot) com Galactic Cowboys on the Web...muh!? http://www.cedarville.edu/student/s1133627/gcowboys.htm ---+ +--- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 08:37:55 -0500 From: "Blevins, Mike" To: "'email_address_removed'" Subject: RE: DC dates Message-ID: Pat Wrote.. >Does anyone know the offical confirmed date(s) for the DC area???? > > Sunday, Nov. 22nd at the Ballroom - they seem to have lost the Capitol off of it... Friday, December 26th at Jaxx. According to the owner of Jaxx, the Ballroom show is confirmed. No, we won't be playing on either of them - OFB's not allowing locals on this tour, thus depriving us of that opportunity. :( Mike > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 23:26:12 +0900 From: Paul Dyer To: email_address_removed Subject: Opeth....Again?? Message-ID: I don't know if this worked on the last digest so here it is again. Roger, Points taken. I guess it's just a matter of taste but I don't listen to either album more than the other in the long run! >>but one thing that I noticed >>the first or second time I hear "Orchid" is that the melodies last for >>much less than they last in "Morningrise". Maybe this is a reason for >>"Orchid" being an album harder to get into. Hmmm could be.... I don't know... I tend to like heaps of changes in my music ie my fave Death metal album is Carcass - "Necrotocism - Descanting the Insalubrious" which is a riff-o-rama of an album! I don't know... The albums are different at the same time as being alike! They're great either way!!! >>I don't understand quite well the label "Forest", but these albums >>give a very climatic/atmospheric feel. I'm not sure about the forest, but >>definitely, the feel that I have is that sometimes the songs are "cold", >>like the weather from Norway (funny that here in Brazil it is almost >>always hot :-) -- I've never seen snow). I live in Northern Australia. It is also hot here and I have never seen snow either. I recently travelled to Scandinavia and it compounded my feelings even more. To think of Norway is to think of Forests. Music is the soundtrack to your imagination and I think of forests when I hear Opeth! I guess Scandinavian Forests are a little different from Brazilian ones! If you want cold music listen to anything by "Immortal" or Ulver's "Nattens Madrigal". It sounds like they play the guitars with icicles and they record in the snow covered windy mountains of Norway!! Not your average DT fans style though. >>BTW, I'd like to see Dream Theater covering some of Opeth's >>songs... :-) This would be interesting! Or Vice Versa!! Hmmm.... Cheers Paul D. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 10:04:48 +0500 From: richard@capitale.qc.ca (Richard James) To: email_address_removed Subject: FII REVIEW FROM SFK !!! Message-ID: <9710291504.AA00450@jason.qc.ca> Kurt's picks: ------------- DREAM THEATER - FALLING INTO INFINITY (A-) EastWest, 1997 In what's already becoming the most analyzed album this year, DT's latest has it's both good and bad which mirrors all their other releases. In other words, when they're firing on all cylinders no one can touch them. But, there are times when they get carried away with themselves and let some songs go on a tad too long (though not as much as in the past). A perfect example of this is opener "New Millenium". What begins as a killer of a song becomes long and drawn out. "Peruvian Skies" gave me the same feeling, though not as much. But, with this release the songs have a more concise feel, that to me, make the all the difference. "You Not Me" is probably the most commercial song on offer (next to the ballads) and is just a great driving rocker. Same with "Burning My Soul". Their ballads are the best songs this time out though. Lyrically and musically songs like "Hollow Years" and "Take Away My Pain" just left me breathless. I'm glad I waited an extra issue to review this as the more I listened to it, the more I liked it. And you know what, it might get better still. Along with Tiles "Fence The Clear", THE prog-metal album of the year. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 10:23:18 -0500 From: "Christopher R. Merlo" To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: tour history Message-ID: > I was wondering what web site had a complete tour history for DT. I > haven't been able to find one. This may seem like a wierd question amidst > the current tour but I was curious about something. There will be one... eventually. Scott Hansen and I are currently in the process of not doing anything to the list. I know that Scott has a complete list (possibly excluding this past week. Scott?) of dates AND set lists. I decided a few months back that I'd help convert it to HTML, without realizing just how huge a task that would be. Then, after moving and trying to make a good impression in my first semester at a new school, I have barely had time to maintain the FAQ (Damn! I meant to get to that yesterday) let alone play with this tour dates list. I'm hoping that I'll have enough time between exams and Christmas to at least get the dates up on the web, and then slowly add set lists to it. I ought to have somewhere a text file with every date OFB has played. If you're that curious, I can dig it up and mail/post it. -Chris ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough email_address_removed "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates email_address_removed /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Maintainer of the Official Dream Theater Frequently Asked Questions List http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/dtfaq.html ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 3169 **************************