YTSEJAM Digest 3166 Today's Topics: 1) DT TRIP OF A LIFETIME!! (part 2) by alistair young 2) Scarred, ToT, think by john jens 3) Cleveland SPOILER re-post by "George Sumschidt" 4) UNCLASSIFIED:-Re: Promark drumsticks and Mike Portnoy by email_address_removed.au 5) Don't hate me because I can do everything by Richard Banister 6) OZRIC TENICALES? by VAIMAN 7) No DT/NATIONS BANK? by VAIMAN 8) DT In Chicago by email_address_removed 9) I had a dream. . by Richard Banister 10) The intelligence bit. by Chad Mitchell 11) Metallica, Dream Theater and IQ (Re: wtf?) by Rogerio Brito 12) Re: Opeth by Rogerio Brito 13) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3165 by "Richard A. Rivera" 14) Math, Languages, the Ytsejam, Art etc by Rogerio Brito ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:38:08 -0800 From: alistair young To: email_address_removed Subject: DT TRIP OF A LIFETIME!! (part 2) Message-ID: >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 11:47:14 -0800 >To: email_address_removed >From: alistair young >Subject: DT TRIP OF A LIFETIME!! (part 2) >In-Reply-To: > >Hey there, YTSEJAMMERS!! > >After flying from VANCOUVER to NY CITY this past weekend, the girl I'm dating (who gave me the trip as a present) and I got to see DREAM THEATER play a sold out show at Toad's Place in NEW HAVEN. > >It was awesome! The band sounded incredible and I got to meet all of them (they were really nice)... > >"Mike, John, James, John and Derek. --- Thank you for not being too cool to hang out with us fans! It makes all the difference to us and is just another reason why you're the best band in the world!" > >I got a photo with Mike Portnoy (but my camera died-- C'est la vie) so I'll have to ask him for another photo at the SEATTLE show on Novermber 15. > >We also got a photo with John Petrucci and talked to James (who had heard about the trip from my last e-mail, I guess.) Anyway, the whole thing ruled and I'd like to say Thank you to Kristina. You're awesome, babe! > >Keep on JAMMIN' ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 19:46:34 -0600 (CST) From: john jens To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Scarred, ToT, think Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Oct 1997, YtseJim wrote: | | >> detailed reviews. 1. Scarred !!!!!!![2nd time ever] | | > i believe it's at least the 3rd time they've played it. first 2 times | were | > during the Fix for 96 shows, | | OK! let's clear this up a little, shall we :) ok, so im losing my memory... | Scarred has been played a total of 4 times live: [..snip..] Loren suggested replacing Scarred with ToT: no way. adding? yes, replacing? no. something to ponder: choosing a setlist is much like forming a literary canon. alter, john j j e n s @ s h e l l . w e b z o n e . n e t s h e l l . w e b z o n e . n e t / ~ j j e n s / ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 20:47:54 -0500 From: "George Sumschidt" To: "Ytsejam" Subject: Cleveland SPOILER re-post Message-ID: THIS IS A SPOILER re-print. Hopefully without that annoying MIME encoding. Cross your fingers. Greetings fellow jammers. Cold weather sux when you have to stand in it waiting in anticipation for a night to remember. On the lighter side, I get to the parking lot and hear the soundcheck, THRU THE WALLS!!! So cool. TAMP sure sounded great. Onto the opening act. Big Wreck. They are from Boston. They have a good sound. Emilio Estevez on rhythm guitar. That was cool. The guy playing lead and singing could have been a Chris Cornell clone. The bass player was talented. He was playing an 8 stringed thing. I couldn't quite make out the name, but it looked like it said Hammer to me.... Bass players, help me out here. I was able to recruit some fans into jammers. thankyouverymuch. One of the songs that Big Wreck did had a real Cure sound to it. I don't really listen to the Cure, but the guitar sound was there. Another song they did was called The Oath. I heard alot of Aerosmith influence in it. The dual guitar sound of the Gibson/Les Paul and a Fender really had the trademark sound. ***ONTO THE SPOILER*** end of part 1 ***any flames, comments (good OR bad) can be directed to ME at email_address_removed . Till next time, G. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:50:35 +1000 From: email_address_removed.au To: email_address_removed Subject: UNCLASSIFIED:-Re: Promark drumsticks and Mike Portnoy Message-ID: > I have only broken 1 pair of Vic Firth drumsticks. This is the only disappointment >that I have directed towards the products that MP endorses. >Tama, Sabian and LP are great. So what is your point here a. MP shouldn't be endorsing sticks that IYO are crap ? b. You know better than MP ? c. That MP should be using the same sticks as you ? If they break as quickly as you say they do then, MP will be using 100's of the fuckers everynight. Bottom line is MP is one of the most respected drummers in music today, your not, I bet he know's what he is doing and wouldn't endorse a below standard product. graham.. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 21:03:48 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Banister To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Don't hate me because I can do everything Message-ID: I'm gonna keep it short. . you people are probaly sick of hearing from my by now. . > From: Seroussi > To: email_address_removed You knew I would do it, didn't you! > > I have a friend who was a real metal-head. He listened to metallica, > > megadeth, pantera and sepoltura. > > That doesn't sound like a "real metal-head"...more like a metal-poser... I was about to let the strain die, then this? But seriously. . the term "real (insert type of music) fan" really bothers me. . . if you like the music, you're a fan. Maybe you're not as obsessed as, say, us, but you're a fan nonetheless. And like it or not, metallica, megadeth et. all still classify as metal (metal is too broad a catagory to classify and then stereotype with. Other genres, it's fine. But not metal. . . ;). Heh heh. . . but nice to see that metal-posers are coming back (nice in a sick sort of way). . . Oh yeah. .. sepultura, mainstream? What? > > I find metallica and megadeth lyrics much more meaningful than > > mainstream lyrics. Most of metal & progressive songs are written > > in a higher language than mainstream. > > hmm...the metal bands you mentioned ARE mainstream... but if you listen to the average metal song (alright, this means anything from metallica to obituary. . they all have something to say). The lyrics are often more thought provoking than your average poppy song (average = you know what I'm trying to say). . . I refuse to put any examples in because I would have to then prove this, and that is beyond the scope of this post. > > (quote from me) > > I happen to think that on this stance you are absolutely and completely > > wrong. Are you saying that nobody who chooses math as their field of > > study has any artistic ability? > > No no no...oh fuck that, I don't know what I'm saying... I'm kinda sick of arguing this (no wait, the fun is just beginning). . . and truth be told, I don't remember what my original point was. However, I was right, and you were wrong. ;) > Well, here's the way I see it: computer programming is pretty much a > form of art... programming = creating a program...you need to be > creative to create something... > > (hmm, I know someone is gonna come up and twist it against me, but no > matter...) Ask and you shall receive! Comp Sci requires creativity, but more prominent are the aspects of the math and analysis (at least, for the science part of it). . . would say more, but what's the point? > I don't see any sports in your interests...you don't have it all... ;P heh. . .actually, I'm a pole vaulter, and former sprinter. Would've made the olympics if it weren't for the knee injury. . . :[ well, maybe not the olympics . .. > In: A Mind Beside Itself (minus TSM), ToT, Scarred and WFS/LtL > > Out: HY, PMU, The Mirror/Lie Out: All DT songs. In: Anything by Green Day. Play something with artistic merit! well, this isn't as short as I expected. But then, that's what your mom said! ... I can't decide if that's bad or good. figuratively, Rich ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 21:11:39 -0500 From: VAIMAN To: email_address_removed Subject: OZRIC TENICALES? Message-ID: What is the name of the new Ozric CD? thx. todd s email_address_removed www.dreamt.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 21:20:23 -0500 From: VAIMAN To: email_address_removed Subject: No DT/NATIONS BANK? Message-ID: Question #1. Do you have a NATIONS BANK in your area? Question #2. Do you use Nations Bank? If so...are you satisfied with them? No...I do not work for Nations Bank. BUT I believe they suck. They are NOW charging fee's to customers for a blank deposit slip. $1.00 each. Can you believe this? They also charge $28.00 for a bounced check. just some thoughts... see ya todd s email_address_removed ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 21:30:33 -0500 (EST) From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: DT In Chicago Message-ID: <971028213032_-1392918690@mrin39> I've scanned the recent Issues of this here 'Jam, and found no mention of any Chicago area fans getting together before the show. I would like to suggest someplace like Ed Debevic's, where unruly is the rule, and since it's a restaurant rather than a bar, the under-21's can participate. It wouldn't be anything structured or organized, just show up if you've got nothing better to do before the doors open (6:30!). I'm psyched! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 22:01:18 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Banister To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: I had a dream. . Message-ID: Alright, so I wasn't done. I had this really insane idea today. . . maybe it's because I only got three hours of sleep, and was psychologically fucked from listening to an hour of equation lecture; but on the way back from class I thought, would it not be insane to have a worldwide YtseJam? Stop me if this has been thought of before, but it seems to me that a good portion of people in this newsgroup are musically talented. . . would it be possible to colaborate on a musical piece over the web? As I said, I was a little crazy, but the thought of a collaboration with a number of people (how many in the list now. . . 800?) was enticing, provocative, and mind-boggling. It would be a BITCH to coordinate, but could it not kick ass? Anyone can shoot me down. . . I might enjoy the end to the pain. . sigh. . more responses. . will keep short, I promise. Phil, I believe: > Is there any solid reason? A lot of people think that because they are > clean-cut, good-looking, religious/spiritual, and very much into being > gentle and pleasant toward other people, they must automatically suck. That's what it is! Masculine male types see a powerful male-figure who is not stereo-typically male (i.e. masculine) and are threatened by him! And, women love him, so he makes men feel inadequate, and therefore they have to insult him to make themselves feel better! Either that, or he plays sissy music. :) Will not post more on that, as this is not the music-psychoanalysis mailing list.. . but suffice to say, I can't pass judegement on him until I hear him. Also, DT ties: I did (time to admit to my darkest secret) actually see part of his acropolis concert, and one of his songs was not only pretty powerful, but as I remember was in either 5/8 or 7/4 (can't remember now. . think it was 5), and had an extended violin solo, which built to a beautiful climax. . . then I had to get some tissues. No wait. . .that's going too far. . but I was def. surprised to hear an odd time sig in there. . . Cashman, on Mod. Drum. interview: > Now this is > probably old news around here, but he talks about Neil Part slagging on > the Rush tribute effort by saying that "a bunch of bar bands are trying > to make a buck off of our name." whoa. . . I can't believe that. I used to like Neal Peart. . . If I was in a band (mmm. . to be in a band again), I would be _honored_ to have a tribute in my name. . especially by such talented people. Maybe he was pissed because all those songs KICKED THE FUCK OUT OF RUSH'S ASS multiple times.. . but seriously, I want to know the whole story. If anybody has that article transcribed, I would love to see it (private email, unless you really wanna post it.. .). If not, I guess I'll have to go buy the mag. . . ;) Also, I'll add to all the literary review by posting my favorite, Neal Stevenson. Everybody who is or will be CS should read 'Snow Crash' post haste. . . the best first two chapters I've ever read. Anyone interested in religion (or decidedly _uninterested_ in religion) should check out "Good Omens" by Neal Gaiman and Tracy Pratchett. . . And of course we all read Robert Jordan, right? These are all novel, fiction related books, mind you... (anyone interested in AI is welcome to pick up "the emperors new mind" by Penrose. . . ;). Will not further risk getting unsubbed by predominance of non-DT content. . . later. figuratively, Rich "Fuck I can't write short posts" -Me "Is it pretentious to quote oneself in a .sig?" -Me again ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 21:10:49 -0600 (CST) From: Chad Mitchell To: email_address_removed Subject: The intelligence bit. Message-ID: Brian Hayden wrote: <<2: People who are focused on music. ... can divide this group into two sub-groups; those who are more interested in the raw emotion, and those who are more interested in the most eloquent expression of that emotion.>> You know, I started out to disagree with this reasoning, but after reading more of it, I find myself in tacit agreement. I do think, however, there are many who are attracted to certain types of prog on technical merit alone. Yes is a good example - their music is wondrous, scintillating, but in most cases almost devoid of emotion. (braces for possible flaming at this point) As for the line about not liking what you've never heard, this is the absolute gospel truth. After marrying a lovely woman who likes country music (Gad, what *was* I smoking?) I've gone from utter revulsion to only mild distaste where Garth and his buddies are concerned. ;) Enough from me, talk amongst yourselves. Chad Mitchell Owner/GM - Oklahoma Outlaws "Doctors get to bury their mistakes, Architects can only advise their client to plant vines." -Frank Lloyd Wright ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 01:20:46 -0200 (EDT) From: Rogerio Brito To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Metallica, Dream Theater and IQ (Re: wtf?) Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, Seroussi wrote: > > From: Rogerio Brito > > Subject: New Metallica album (NDTC) > > Now that's something that doesn't belong on the jam...metallica has its > own newsgroup and countless webpages, thus I'm sure anyone here that > cares will look for the information, there's no need to post it here... Well, I really think that many people may find that post telling the release date of "ReLoad" interesting. And I don't know the limits of what should or what shouldn't be posted on this list. Every single subject may or may not be viewed as an appropriate thing to post here. Let's remember that the opening letter we all receive when we subscribe to the Ytsejam Mailing List tells us that we are allowed to talk about bands related to Dream Theater. And if Metallica weren't related to Dream Theater, we wouldn't have: * The "Damage, Inc." song officially included in their setlist on January 31st, 1995 show at "Ronnie Scott's"; * John Petrucci saying in a Guitar Clinic here in Brazil that one of the groups that he likes is Metallica. BTW, Seroussi, I think that sometimes you just post for the sake of contradicting someone. The only time I ever saw a post of yours to the list when you didn't criticize someone was when you were asking if you'd like Opeth's "Orchid" if you liked "Morningrise". Please, understand that people have different opinions and that you have to respect their right to state what they think, even if you don't agree with their point. We don't measure people's intelligence based only on a single number called IQ. We also measure it based on people's ability of living together with people with different ideals. Hope you pacifically undestand my point and don't flame me, Roger... -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - email_address_removed.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html "Life is ours, we live it our way (...) / And nothing else matters" James Hetfield (Metallica), Nothing Else Matters =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 01:30:32 -0200 (EDT) From: Rogerio Brito To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Opeth Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, Paul Dyer wrote: > >>>>I've only got Morningrise, is Orchid worth spending my money on? > > Most definitely. i think it's better than Morningrise! Morningrise is very While I don't think it is better than "Morningrise", "Orchid" is definitely a very good/excellent album. > structured. You know electric/acoustic/electric/acoustic etc but Orchid is > more random. Still the same "always" harmonised guitars just less After listening to Opeth for almost two months now, I don't know if "Morningrise" is very much predictable, but one thing that I noticed the first or second time I hear "Orchid" is that the melodies last for much less than they last in "Morningrise". Maybe this is a reason for "Orchid" being an album harder to get into. > organised. Also the lead guitar, while not shredding is more interesting on > Orchid. I got Orchid first and bought Morningrise when it first came out. > They are almost the perfect mix of Prog and Black metal and it comes out > sounding like - you said it - Forest Metal!! I don't understand quite well the label "Forest", but these albums give a very climatic/atmospheric feel. I'm not sure about the forest, but definitely, the feel that I have is that sometimes the songs are "cold", like the weather from Norway (funny that here in Brazil it is almost always hot :-) -- I've never seen snow). BTW, I'd like to see Dream Theater covering some of Opeth's songs... :-) > Cheers > > Paul D See ya, Roger... -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - email_address_removed.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html "Life is ours, we live it our way (...) / And nothing else matters" James Hetfield (Metallica), Nothing Else Matters =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 22:38:27 -0500 (EST) From: "Richard A. Rivera" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3165 Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Oct 1997 email_address_removed wrote: > This was written by someone who's name I forgot. I am actually quite > disappointed by Mike's endorsement of the Promark company. I bet they > approached him and he didn't approach them. The Promark drumsticks are > shit. They don't last. I used to use them until I discovered Vic Firth. > Much better. My Vic Firth sticks are the same pair that I have had for > over a year and a half (honestly) I play quite a bit too. When I used to > use Promark I was going through drumsticks every other or third time I > would play. It seems that the drumsticks are made with grade d wood or > something. I have only broken 1 pair of Vic Firth drumsticks. This is the > only disappointment that I have directed towards the products that MP > endorses. Tama, Sabian and LP are great. Really? I used to play Vic Firth, mostly because that's what my drum teacher played with. Then I discovered Pro-Mark and I never looked back. My Vic Firths used to break on me CONSTANTLY. Not to say that I don't break Pro-Marks. But I've found that the break less often then Vic Firths. In case it matters, I play with Pro-Mark Naturals (5B) and if Pro-Mark were to ever offer me an endorsement I would probably shit myself. Regardless of how you feel about Pro-Mark, you've got to admit that NOTHING is worse than the Hot Sticks he used to play with. Man, you might as well hit your cymbals with a Crayon. Richie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 01:40:18 -0200 (EDT) From: Rogerio Brito To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Math, Languages, the Ytsejam, Art etc Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, Kevin Madden wrote: > Rich asked: > >Are math and languages > >really so far apart? They always seem like opposite ends of the spectrum, > >but is that really the case? > > Well, from personal experience (I have studied a few foreign languages > extensively for the last 7 years) the native ability (in adults, that is) > for the two subjects are not too related. I never did well in math. Sure, > regular addition, subtraction, multiplication and division (hi, mike) are > easy, but that advanced math shit blew me away. I may be the only person Well, it is very interesting to hear this. In fact, when I was in high school, I didn't understand, say 50% of what they told me I was supposed to know of Math. Mainly because teachers were very imprecise. Therefore, Math never caught my attention. That was, *UNTIL* I first studied Linear Algebra and Abstract Algebra. Man, I must confess that since my first year here in the University I was amazed to know things that I could do if I knew the necessary Math. Maybe I was motivated to know Linear Algebra because I was told that if I wanted to deal with Computer Graphics I should learn a lot by linear transformations etc. My life changed from that point on. And I discovered that "real" Math is way more interesting than that "fake" math you learn in high school and earlier grades (I mean, fake in the sense that most of the time you're only blindly trying to memorize algorithms to multiply two numbers, without really understanding the process behind those steps you're performing). Proving theorems is one of the most beautiful things in life and it is what gives our world the structure we perceive. And I also realized that Math has always been connected with Music and Languages. In fact, the old greeks described music as "numbers in movement" (they were the first to study the relations between the frequencies of sounds, even though I don't know if they had the notion of what frequencies are/were). And while Math helps to understand some things in music, music helps us understand general paradygms that the man has/had and how they evolved with time, not only in music, but also in literature. Just observe the relation between the styles in music, paintings, architecture and literature. Also, we are constantly doing Math, even uncounsciously. When we are trying to abstract things to define these styles, we are just using Math. When we see that the Baroque era music (I'm thinking of Vivaldi and Telemann, here) had rich contrapontual elements, when baroque sculptures had many intricacies, details (in some sense, almost in excess), we are using both our senses and our reason, that is, Art and Math. I think that they are unseparable. And when we are expressing ourselves in any language, we're also doing Math. Just think if I were throwing words here in this message, without any coherent sequence (well, I don't claim that what I'm writing here has much reason, but at least it is not purely randomic :-) ). Perhaps you wouldn't understand what was written in this message. Let's see: a1-4\62345&@%^ sdl;s;a&#$%^D vb'z'@^J()+^#C NJJCGH(a;fo58mn^&(%#U& MTR!~EY*(. Ok. Every single language has its grammar. The grammar of each language establishes relatively rigid rules to form phrases. These rules are called syntax. Of course, there rules allow us some degree of flexibility, but it also forbids many constructions. If you think that I'm just having some illusions here, keep in mind that there's a field of Math that is called Natural Language Modelling that is focused in understanding many of the relations between the words/letters in a language. And there's another field called Formal Languages that deals with specification of grammars/languages. Quite interesting stuff. And when artists are trying to express themselves, they have to pick some elements on which they will be putting all their emotions (be it a painting, a song etc -- everything has its theme). These elements constitute an abstraction that the artist does of his/hers emotion. Well, enough uninteresting things being posted to the 'jam, Roger... P.S.: I hope I don't get flamed for this... :-) -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - email_address_removed.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html "Life is ours, we live it our way (...) / And nothing else matters" James Hetfield (Metallica), Nothing Else Matters =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 3166 **************************