YTSEJAM Digest 3037 Today's Topics: 1) Re: Just for the grammar snobs by Eckie 2) Re: I'VE FALLEN INTO INFINITY, AND I CAN'T GET UP!!!! by Rogerio Brito 3) Re: Glam?? Eighties metal?? by "ÞrØgßø¥" 4) Re: Glam?? Eighties metal?? by Eckie 5) music analysis and m(o)ore by JB 6) HEALTH A- THANKS FOR THE INPUT :) by email_address_removed (Stephen LaMonica) 7) FII talk --> Specific songs and production by Jonathan Case 8) wow,relax! by email_address_removed.il 9) ROTFLMAO... nice one uber by JB 10) ok umm tell me summin different! by Chris Daley 11) "Glam" + DTC by "Richard A. Rivera" 12) get in the ring, muthafucker- fii dissected, installment 1 by email_address_removed 13) by email_address_removed (Jeffrey Falk) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 12:09:14 -0700 From: Eckie To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Just for the grammar snobs Message-ID: > Eckie sometimes people make a mistake. Sometimes people spell a word > wrong. Sometimes people leave a word out. But that doesn't mean you have > to point out every single fookin' one. But since I know won't listen to > me, I'm going to do it to you. [the word 'sucka' can heard in the > background] > Quiet clown! I am superior to you! Do not judge my judgements! > Hmm, not one or two, or even three. But SIX times you spelled the word > 'thEIr' wrong. Uhh....I had a um....cold. Couldn't type right.... ~Eckie returns to his hole ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 16:10:17 -0300 (EST) From: Rogerio Brito To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: I'VE FALLEN INTO INFINITY, AND I CAN'T GET UP!!!! Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Sep 1997, JB wrote: > wow... I need a 50 disc changer for all the DT albums I have now... the 6 > official releases I own (WDADU, IaW, Awake, ACOS, FII, Live at the > Marquee), plus the tremendous # of boots I've gotten from the Bahr-man > (thanks man!!).... this is just awesome... I only have a 5 disc changer, > and had to decide which official release album (ACOS or LatM) NOT to put > in... that's a first.. Wouldn't it be nice if CDs could hold more than, say, 10 hours of music each?? I really wish this could be true (well, but now I'll receive some messages of people telling me that they *can* put up to 10 hours of music in a CD using MP3 files etc -- that's not what I want; I want a universal method of reading the CDs)... Just a thought, Roger... -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - email_address_removed.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html "Life is ours, we live it our way (...) / And nothing else matters" James Hetfield (Metallica), Nothing Else Matters =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 15:11:51 -0400 From: "ÞrØgßø¥" To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Glam?? Eighties metal?? Message-ID: Rogerio Brito wrote: > Hi, all. > > Could someone tell me please what are the problems with glam?? Why > do you think that the Eighties had bad metal? I don't know what you mean > when you talk about glam, besides bands that used more make up than my > mother, but I really like a lot of 80's albums (all the good Metallica's > albums were from that decade, some Megadeth etc) and don't think that the > dressing style has anything to do with the music of a particular artist. > I'm really confused with these posts to the 'jam. > > Really curious trying to see what is wrong, Roger... Thing is.. those bands you mentioned..are not considered glam at all..when i think glam i think bands like : Poison,Warrant,Trixter,Danger Danger, Ratt, etc etc..can anyone give more examples? Im just 18 now so i was kinda young at the times these guys were really popular... anyway.. for me glam is any band with cheesy lyrcis mostly about partying and sex and girls..whoa. i just remembered..early motley crue coudl be called glam..right? ...mostly meaningless lyrics and stupid onstage antics that would make JLB embarrassed! .. :) In the stream of consciousness There is a river crying Living comes much easier Once we admit , We're dying. Dream Theater: Lines in the Sand http://premium.caribe.net/~calfaro mailto:email_address_removed mailto:email_address_removed Universal Internet Number (ICQ) 1254229 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 12:27:12 -0700 From: Eckie To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Glam?? Eighties metal?? Message-ID: > Could someone tell me please what are the problems with glam?? Why > do you think that the Eighties had bad metal? "She's my cherry pie, put a smile on your face, TEN miles wide!" (okay, so that was nineties, but that's still glam dammit!)Glam sucked. Glam fell under the category of poofy hair, simple arena rock drum beats, synchronized stage-level jumping, brightly colored spandex clothes, and cool guitars with paint jobs that made you want to cry 'cuz they were so bad. (Anybody remember Stryper, LA Guns?) The worst part about this craze was the fact that this is what popular society thinks of when you say the term, "Heavy metal" to this day! It was just another stupid trend. (The trend is DEAD, The trend is DEAD!!!) They were the same damn posuers who are copin' off Nirvana and Smashing Pumpkins today. (Motley Crue) DT rules, btw. ~Eckie, the persecuted grammar nazi ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 15:38:43 -0400 From: JB To: email_address_removed Subject: music analysis and m(o)ore Message-ID: >Please don't analyze the music - enjoy it! huh? I'm sorry, but for me (as a musician), when I analyze the music, I get a whole helluva lot more out of it than if I just play it in the background... some of the best posts IMO have been the people outlining the music by time and pointing out cool nuances found in certain songs (BTW whoever posted that frame by frame analysis of New Millenium a while back... I listened to some of the things you were referencing, and It helped me appreciate the song ALL THE MORE!!!) When you think about a song, you are able to uncover suttleties that might have othewise gone unnoticed. And as a musician, analyzing it helps me apply certain parts of it (that I especially enjoy) to myself. >Well, I was reading the lyrics to BMS, and I have found a new >interpretation to it: dude, these were my first interpretations on the song... what was your original interpretation? >You know, Moore looks really miserable in all the Awake photos. Except the >wide-lens band shot, in which you'll notice that he has the leftmost fold >all to himself. Awww. That would be the "alienation" aspect of "divest," >eh? he does? on the other picture he's on (the 5 band members on the inner cover), he looks perfectly fine to me. I agree with some of your thoughts (though not sure about the divest thing). Later, Jason -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Jason Brindel Computer Engineering '97 Virginia Tech email_address_removed http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/beamup (540)961-7262 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 15:40:33 -0400 (EDT) From: email_address_removed (Stephen LaMonica) To: email_address_removed Subject: HEALTH A- THANKS FOR THE INPUT :) Message-ID: This is for Health A, I wasn't directing my anger towards anyone on this list (I think you thought I was) but more towards people I have talked to over Netscape. Anyway, thanks for your opinions. I play sax and bass, so I always listen to the little parts. I love Falling Into Infinity, not because it is better or not better than any other DT release, but because it is Dream Theater.I am always open to change, and I feel this is a great disc, and well worth the looooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggg wait for it. I can't wait to see them on tour. THIS IS FOR ANYONE WITH A SIMILAR PROBLEM...... Has anyone tried to see DT on the Awake tour when they were in Long Island, only to be banned from the clubs or bars they played in????? I was 16 at the time, so I couldn't see them. Then when they did the new music thing last year, I was in school at Saint Joseph's (PHILADELPHIA-GO HAWKS!!!) taking my final exams. Let me know if you had similar problems, being too young to get into the clubs. Also-Does anyone listen to ENCHANT, ALTURA, or SHADOWGALLERY? Very good prog bands. One last thing! Everyone, check out Clockwork if you haven't heard of them. They are an original prog band in Philadelphia(the guitarist lived on my floor last year). For info on this great band, and demos, contact them at CLOCKWORK 219 Canford Drive Broomall, PA 19008 or you can call them at (610)356-8621 or you can email at email_address_removed Oh, here is there web page. Check it out. http://www.netti.fi/~japi/ Stephen La Monica ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 15:06:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Case To: email_address_removed Subject: FII talk --> Specific songs and production Message-ID: Hi. Just thought I'd make a few more comments about some songs. 1) YOU NOT ME. I hear a Steve Morse riff on the guitar solos between 3:00 and 3:10. Very cool Stuff! 2) BURNING MY SOUL. What the fuck is going on between 0:54 and 1:01??!! The China type cymbal gets totally muffled and sounds like shit!! That's my main complaint about this album at this time. The sound quality id variable from song to song, and even within the same song, as in BMS. The cymbals get muffled too often, as well as the snare. Some songs, the snare sounds great, like LITS. But then, the heavier ones, where there is a deeper guitar and bass sound, the drum sounds get downed out big time. 3) Again in BMS: I hear a sound reminscent of Caught in a Web from 3:50 to 4:30 or so, especially before the vocals come in. 4) VIBRATTO talk. I'm pretty sure I know what this vibratto stuff is supposed to sound like (I'm a drummer, so don't know all the jargon). Anyway, I think that everyone who says James doesn't do any vibratto on FII are FULL OF SHIT!! I do notice that James avoids the vibratto in the majority, as compared to IAW and such However, I DISTINICTLY hear his vocals fluctuate in the same manner at the tail end of notes at the end of phrases. It's not as noticeable, but I hear it in Hallow Years some, Take away my Pain awong others. I'll have to listen more carefully, but I definitely hear the vibratto touches occasionally in the slow songs. 5) KEYBOARD talk (referring to lack thereof). The keys show up VERY nicely in most of the tunes. Derek has some great solos and doubles with Petrucci very nicely, like in New Millenium and H's K. Well, that's my $2 worth for now. (Inflation, ya know!) Later, Jon ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -Jonathan Case, graduate student Mailing Address: -School of Meteorology: (405)-325-6561 942 Deonne Circle -University of Oklahoma at Norman Norman, OK 73071 -Dept. Fax #: (405)-325-7689 (405)-364-7075 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Office: 1518 in Sarkey's Energy center; Norman, OK -73069- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Email: email_address_removed || URL: http://rossby.ou.edu/~jcase ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 97 11:49:27 PDT From: email_address_removed.il To: email_address_removed Subject: wow,relax! Message-ID: hey guys!! go easy on me! i'm just human! not even that-i'm israeli! so maybe i've gone overboard with this kevin moore bullshit(maybe not) but i don't wanna talk about that now, i don't wanna talk about stupied boring facts like-who write what,who influens who and bullshit like that. i just want you all to LISTEN to the damn album. listen to it,and try to understand what the band is going for in that album. the conclusions that i think you all should get from it that the band,on the comlex of the song,they steped a step BACK,a big step back! and the bigest step back in this album is the orginality! every single song in this album can be idenify as another artist they rip it of from! it's just not that! if i wanna hear pink floyd i'll hear pink floyd! if i wanna hear metallica i'll hear metallica and not burning my soul! what the band got a few step forward,is the new direction they achived hear,they prooved in this album that they are very big musicians that can write from stuff like anna lee,alton john music like,and to stuff like hell's kitchen,the rush/yes music characteristics. but the thing i tried to explain to you guys in my last letters by blaming poor & innocent kevin moore, is that dream theater are losing the special dream theater characteristic that we had on all of the late albums! the special characteristic that involved the light rock,heavy metal and even the touch of the son of jazz:fusion! i know that alot of you guys say things like: the more you hear it,the more you like it, or that you only have to get use to it- but i don't wanna "get use" to it! i don't wanna go backwards in my music style!! my phases in my music like that(i'm now 17 years old):when i was 12 i liked whatever sounded good,like beatles,alton john(i actually liked funural for a friend/love lies bleeding! the shock i got when i heard ACOS....),and all the light rock. and than at 14 i started to like heavy metal-metallica,megadeth. 15 years old i heard DT and i consider it as the next phase,along with rush. BUT that's not only me! every friend i have had similar phases and consider FII as a big step back! nobody here like it at all! that's why i don't understand you guys! i thought that the fact that you guys like DT showed a big musical understanding,that can idenify a step back when they see one. i think that the musicians among you should think about the fact that if guys love DT as all time favorite you won't get any far with that. that's why i think my self as a good guitar player-every one of my phases had helped me build myself as a good guitar player-from chords to notes to technique to feel,and now i have the combination of all of them! but the musicians that stuck on this part of music are stuck on the technique part,which is nothing without the feel-the ability to know the guitar like you know yourself,to be able to tell a story with your fingers,and to know when to shut up in the right time,and not try to squeeze as many notes as you can in less time!! that's another complain about JP playing,allthough he has a GREAT control of the keys in the most AMAZING way,you can't skip that,but he is so busy showing of his technique that it's frustrating! for example the solo of trail of tears-the 3rd chord of the progress is making a big change in the notes on the key,i think that i'd had to work on the progress for like few hours so i'll have to get use to it,but john starts his 5 finger strech hammer on! i was very dissapointed from that.... i think that i made my point alot clearer now,i think... sorry about the kevin moore shit,guys... p.s. you guys realy hate me,don't you? "peace and love where ever you go and what ever you do"-me,now... omer-ISRAEL ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 15:47:19 -0400 From: JB To: email_address_removed Subject: ROTFLMAO... nice one uber Message-ID: >> thier guns, thier idea, >> thier point of view, in thier light, >> in thier shade, in thier colors. > >Hmm, not one or two, or even three. But SIX times you spelled the word >'thEIr' wrong. > >=DCber Cabe your preschool teacher email_address_removed Nice catch... kinda caught him in the act there... :) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 17:01:37 -0400 From: Chris Daley To: email_address_removed Subject: ok umm tell me summin different! Message-ID: Enough with the reviews already haha... Falling Into Infinity is out and in the stores...DT wanted to make it more appealing to the public....well...so...how is it selling?!!? Is DT getting what they want? Are the producers or whatever gettin' them video opportunities? Is there gonna be another video like the Live in Tokyo? Thanks for your help folks. Chris. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 17:05:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Richard A. Rivera" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: "Glam" + DTC Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Sep 1997 email_address_removed wrote: > > Could someone tell me please what are the problems with glam?? Why > do you think that the Eighties had bad metal? I don't know what you mean > when you talk about glam, besides bands that used more make up than my > mother, but I really like a lot of 80's albums (all the good Metallica's > albums were from that decade, some Megadeth etc) and don't think that the > dressing style has anything to do with the music of a particular artist. > I'm really confused with these posts to the 'jam. > AMEN, MY BROTHER!!! One thing I've always maintained is that glam is not a style of music...it's an image, predicated on the creation of a larger-than life persona. Often this involves wearing make-up and non-street clothes, so as to distinguish the rock star from the audience. If you look at it, Bowie, The Stones, Poison and Marilyn Manson have all worn make-up, yet the musical similarities between these groups are few and far between. Dissing a group because of how they look is ridiculous. A common argument against what I have termed "melodic hard rock" is that these bands care more about they way they look than the content of their music. In some cases (especially in the early 90s), I agree. But I fail to see how a song about getting laid in the backseat of a car is any less valid than one about, say, religious persecution or something of the like. All that matters is whether or not the song strikes a chord within you. Another problem is the common mistake that melodic hard rock is just a watered down version of "real" metal. I maintain that the two are seperate genres and while originally the movement did derive itself from metal, during the course of the 80s it evolved into its own style. This mistake in labeling has occured in the minds of the press, the record-buying public, and, in the most unfortunate cases, the bands themselves. In any case, as I've also maintained (FII bashers take note)): If you don't like it, listen to something else. End of story. Anyone who wants to discuss the relative merits/demerits of "glam" are free to e-mail me privately. We're getting enough jams as it is. DTC: So I went out with this girl last night and we met this guy from one of her classes. He sees me and goes "Hey, I know you." Yeah, right. "No, really...I met you last year." Really? "Yeah, we ran into each other after you had just come back from a concert." Really, which one? "God, I wish I could remember...who is that band...you know, the one that sings, 'Pull Me Under, Pull Me Under." Amazing. Also, I made a DT mix from a friend of mine who is also into the same type of music that I am (melodic hard rock). Here's the track listing: Distant Echoes (thanks Mike Bahr) 6:00 TTT Surrounded CiAW IF TAMP BMS HY WFS --------- PMU YNM AD Lie LSOAD AL JLMB TLF (live) (WDATU) TSM ***as you can tell, it's the most accessible stuff. Also, my ex-girlfriend is now living in Germany and I made her a similar mix (obviously w/o the FII stuff) when we first starting going out. On the basis of that, she bought I&W and Awake, went to one Fix show with me and D-Man (what a fuckin' night!), and is hopefully going to have bought FII by the end of the weekened. Richie now playing: Lines In The Sand....good God!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 17:06:27 -0400 (EDT) From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: get in the ring, muthafucker- fii dissected, installment 1 Message-ID: hey there. i can't help but do this now....new material, lots of stuff to talk about. the following is an analysis of what's been heard so far in this new body of work entitled "falling into infinity." comments always welcome. read on. so three years after "awake", on john coltrane's birthday, our appetites were finally satisfied by the release of this new album. if you listen to this, and then to their previous lp, you notice right away a difference. the sound is so much clearer on fii. no tons of reverb that you have to get through in "awake". i like to think that the sounds on fii are representations of what one would hear in reality. i wasn't sure if that could be done with the "awake" album. nm- .....but one thing they DID keep as a "tradition" is this concept of one instrument being the predominant one at the very beginning. in "i/w" and "acos", it was jp with his guitar thing. porntoy of course, called us all to attention in "awake", and while you can hear jp at the beginning of "millenium", you know that derek's the main man here. i guess all we need now is for myung and labrie to do intro solos on the next 2 albums, and voila! we'll be talking about how conceptual they are until we die. another element that i've noticed from them before is this "variation on a theme" routine. you get this one theme or melody, and just DO STUFF to it. in "ltl", it was playing the same melody (kev's intro) over the rest of the band's changes. in "acos", it was "find as many ways to pervert the rhythm of the theme as you can". here it's "let derek scare the listener by playing basically the same theme with 34579345 sounds." it work VERY NICELY, though. and mr. petrucci...sheesh- you and your phase (we'll get to you later, though). and god, you even dared to get funky (approx. 5:59 in). anyone else here think of lynch mob's "river of love" when they sing "i've got this feeling, the tide is turning now, baby." ? it's a great tune. ynm- ok, i imagine someone here will disagree, which will be nice. this song really disappoints me. it starts off soooooooo good. we got a will calhoun drum lick in the beginning, and and very slick and evil verse. the "pre-chorus" may be one of the better-written parts of dt music ever......all this, to lead into the most pointless chorus EVER. the chorus itself is well-written, but itDOESN'T FIT what came before it. a theory rule i learned is that you don't leave something unresolved and go into something different, much like in this song. it's for this that i love and hate this song. on a side note, someone mentioned to me that desmond child is known for "writing rhythms that women love." lady jammers (seeger, stop hiding underneath my panty collection!) and merlos? your thoughts. peruvian- if it weren't for these elements: -the obscure reference to whitesnake's "crying in the rain" before the guitar solo -the not-so-obscure reference to "black album" metallica directly afterwards (funny, i HATE the new metallica stuff, but listening to this song made me feel like such a badass). -the last chorus -derek's cute implementation of a fender rhodes at about 2:26 of the tune... i'd have fallen asleep and choked on my own puke. old-school metal makes nice music history talk, but there's a reason it went by the wayside. this was a little too much "old-school" for my tastes. lastly, for now.....hy- sting, anyone? hows about "shape of my heart"? you know it, you love it, you can't live without. gordon sumner had to have been slated to do a guest spot on this song. maybe vinnie colaiuta's nut sac fell off, so sting "couldn't come tonight". regardless of such crass remarks, this is a great tune, which features mr. myung and tasteful bass playing. but again, mr. myung will be saved for last- i've got a lot to say about him. to be continued.... ytsegoon ****************************************************************************** david y. kobayashi the new york law school email_address_removed email_address_removed "what shall we use to fill the empty spaces where we used to talk...?" -r. waters ****************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 17:15:05 -0400 From: email_address_removed (Jeffrey Falk) To: email_address_removed Message-ID: >Also, In that JP interview just posted he talked about the Phish crowd >and them camping out and whatnot, and I would love to see DT become more >of a wicked live band. I'd love to see them with completely different >setlists every night and do a LOT more improv stuff (REAL improv. Not >pre-rehearsed improv.) It makes the tour stay fresh and exciting >throughout (IMO). They sort of touched upon that during the "Home For >The Holidays" shows in '95 and I would love to see them take it a step >further. Here, here (or is it "hear, hear?"). I've mentioned things like this before on at least two mailing lists (including this one), and I've usually been ignored. I've always believed that bands should not think in terms of one set list for a tour. Unless it's a special case like Genesis's The Lamb tour, it's more interesting when there is at least some variety. If you think you have the perfect set and don't want to change it drastically, fine, but at least alternate a song or two and be spontaneous. Sometimes you can even change it when your on stage. The only thing I don't like about Rush (if disliking is the appropriate term) is that they play the same damn set list every night. On the last few albums, there were great songs that never got played live. As enjoyable as their concerts are, they would have been even better if they would have played "Totem" and "Carve Away the Stone" one night instead of "Limbo" or even "Virtuality." It would sell more tickets, too, since people would know to expect something different every performance. The older songs could be varied too. DT did this well on the Home for the Holidays "tour;" unfourtunately, it looks like they're going in the other direction. I'll still love them and go to see them regardless, but it would be wonderful if they didn't fall into a rut like that. As far as improvisation goes, that's great as well, as long as they don't go overboard. There should be a balance between planning/design and spontaneity (sp?). I'd post a few different possible set lists that I would like to see if I thought there was enough interest (and to see what other people think), but I know the interest isn't there. Jeff Falk email_address_removed "If I knew what the next song was, I'd tell you . . ." James LaBrie, looking down at set list, early December 30, 1995 ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 3037 **************************