YTSEJAM Digest 3024

Today's Topics:

  1) Re: FII... Grundge is dead...AMEN!
 by "Vincent G. LuPone" <email_address_removed>
  2) Re: kevin moore, glambitch
 by "Vincent G. LuPone" <email_address_removed>
  3) 
 by email_address_removed
  4) .002
 by "Bernd Basmer" <email_address_removed.de>
  5) FII   (duh)
 by "Paul W. Cashman" <email_address_removed>
  6) Seven Wonders; cool beginnings
 by "David Whitaker" <email_address_removed>
  7) You go boy!
 by DaveH <email_address_removed>
  8) FII
 by "Andrew Fors" <email_address_removed>
  9) Winter Rose
 by "Andrew Fors" <email_address_removed>
 10) -No Subject-
 by Hein Vandenabeele
 11) cryptic lyrics and bonus tracks (Jap rel.)
 by JB <email_address_removed>
 12) Round hairy objects
 by "Neil Gallop" <nga@software-ag.de>
 13) A quick thought or 2
 by durnik <email_address_removed>
 14) How About that SNARE?!
 by email_address_removed (Dr. Mosh)
 15) Re: Re: The worst DT album yet???
 by Marton Magocsi <email_address_removed.hu>
 16) -No Subject-
 by Hein Vandenabeele
 17) Hollow Years
 by LoneWolf <email_address_removed.ac.at>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 23:03:33 -0600
From: "Vincent G. LuPone" <email_address_removed>
To: email_address_removed
Subject: Re: FII... Grundge is dead...AMEN!
Message-ID: <message_id_removed>


At 02:29 PM 9/24/97 -0700, Someone wrote:
>
>       I think Pantera put it best when they put out THE GREAT SOUTHERN
>TRENDKILL with a line in the song saying, "The Trend is DEAD"  Grundge is
>dead.  Even if you watch MTV you can actually see that, amongst the jam
<<SNIP>>
>I have noticed (and I like it) that rock is going back
>to the talented players.  The hottest bands that are mainstream and popular
>are:
>Korn:  Very talented, we'll see them stick around.

	I dug what you said until you came to this line.  Maybe you've heard a
different Korn.


      Peace and love, and good happiness stuff,      ~Vince

           =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
           | http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palms/6933 |
           -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 23:03:38 -0600
From: "Vincent G. LuPone" <email_address_removed>
To: email_address_removed
Subject: Re: kevin moore, glambitch
Message-ID: <message_id_removed>


At 07:06 AM 9/25/97 -0700, you wrote:
>
>...........after reading that post (was that you, vinny?), i said to
>myself.......
>
>whatever. sheesh.

	Not so much his songwriting.  It was a joke statement between myself and a
few other ytsejammers.  Something about how when Kevin left, so did the
small amount of glam they had left in them.  Don't take it personally
ya'll!  Kev kicks ass :)  I do like Derek's more hard-edged approach,
though.  Fits nicely.


      Peace and love, and good happiness stuff,      ~Vince

           =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
           | http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palms/6933 |
           -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

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Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 02:24:07 -0400
From: email_address_removed
Message-ID: <message_id_removed>


X-Apparently To: email_address_removed
X-Sender: jemmons@mail-hub
Message-Id: <v01540b07b050bd5f0172@[204.210.205.63]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 02:31:23 +0100
To: email_address_removed
]From: email_address_removed (John Emmons)
Subject: FII!

hey Ytsejammers!

        Well, what  can I say! I love the album! There is such a wide
variety on this album it is absolutely fabulous! I was so surprised when I
got to Anna Lee, because although the lyrics aren't too "in depth" (nothing
wrong with that, mind you!) it was a very "new" style to Dream Theater..a
really soft ballad done almost on  piano and not a synth ( I could be
wrong!). I think even Kevin's slow songs are pretty fast (but then again I
can't play piano all that fast, so maybe Wait for sleep is slow to him!) It
does have the "Elton John" piano ballad written all over it..Perhaps all
the heavy bands are trying to move a little to the softer side.
Queensryche's Stay with me (the one with Chris's vocals on it) is pretty
"out of the norm" for the band, and the album somewhat as well. I also
thought that New Millenium with its into and vocal reminded me alot of the
new Fates Warning album's opening track (#2) where the vocals are pretty
distorted as well...[hey, by the way, are the rumors of them touring
together really authenic? How about chances they'll hook up here in Ohio?
Which reminds me, any idea when th tour dates will come out? any idea when
they'll be in the USA? Probably not, but I had to ask I am so excited about
it! It'll be so great to see them again] One of my favorite intros is Lines
in the sand...there is something pretty mystic about it...definitly a new
direction for the band, but I liked it immediately, so that's always a good
thing!

        Well, as a loyal Dream Theater fan, I of course am out there
recruiting new fans by playing some of the new music on my college radio. I
think 'You not me' is a pretty good cut as a single, I am not sure if
everyone could appreaciate the longer songs, but I am going to work on it!
Though I must be making leanway, because I think I have finally convinced
my friend ( long time "classic rock" fan ) on the benefits of Dream
Theater...I think he may even actually pay to see them live!

well, enough of me rambling about how great the album is, I think everyone
already knows that fact!

Thanks for 'taking the time'

Maria



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 08:24:15 +0000
From: "Bernd Basmer" <email_address_removed.de>
To: email_address_removed
Subject: .002
Message-ID: <message_id_removed.de>


Hi.

I don't want to make a lot of words about it. My only comment
to FII is that I think that this album is the best music that came
out for years. It's got it all. Groove, vibes, emotion, kick, all
that one can want. 

All IMHO... as always. :)

Bye

Bernd *still cannot believe it*


-------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
|                            |   Bernd Basmer                            | 
|            _I_             |   Guitar - Superior                       | 
|           <*,*>            |                                           | 
|           [( )]            |   For Info about Superior have a look at: | 
|           -"-"-            |   http://gaia.owl.de/~fine/superior.html  | 
|         Punk  Owl          |                                           |
|                            |   http://www.hlti.fi/~opk/bernd/          |
|                            |   Email: email_address_removed.de          | 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 23:37:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Paul W. Cashman" <email_address_removed>
To: email_address_removed
Subject: FII   (duh)
Message-ID: <message_id_removed>


First post in a while; I've been skimming Jams when possible.  HI
THERE to the usual crowd of troublemakers from IRC and the Jammers I
know from various Ytsecons, etc.   :)

I went into FII having carefully avoided every online file, etc.  I'd
heard some material from Birch Hell but that's it.

This is an excellent album.   Three hours ago I was referring to it as
"very, very good."   We Detect A Trend.  :)

Initial favorites include  HY, H'sK->LitS->TAMP, JLMB.  

Right now I'd rate it slightly behind I&W (which, production aside, is
a true landmark and will be known as such in 50 years) and dead even
with Awake in my own personal Dream Theater pantheon.

As Paul Harvey would say, "shop talk:"   I'm being furloughed
tomorrow, which is bad in some ways but good in others -- I can travel
around for shows now.    And, money willing, travel I will.  :)



NP:  FII, alternating with "Dream" by Forest For the Trees

-- 
Paul W. Cashman    | Listening to the city   Whispering its violence
email_address_removed     |       I set out watching from above
Dream Theater -----> The 90s bring new questions  New solutions to be found
"Learning To Live" |       I fell in love to be let down

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 01:48:08 -0500
From: "David Whitaker" <email_address_removed>
To: <email_address_removed>
Subject: Seven Wonders; cool beginnings
Message-ID: <19970926064953.AAA2448@hombre>


By the way, _Seven Wonders_, the 8-DT-bootlegs-on-one-CD bootleg, is still
open for orders.  Send in a reservation now, and you might get glorious
disc #100 (98 orders reserved so far in just over 3 weeks).  =)  Go here
for information on the disc:
http://www.geocities.com/soho/2236

'Burning My Soul' and 'Just Let Me Breathe' have the coolest, groovingest
beginnings of any songs I've ever heard.  I just about piss in my
headphones they're so great.  LaBrie, you LaRock.

D. Ryan Whitaker
email_address_removed

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 02:56:36 -0400
From: DaveH <email_address_removed>
To: email_address_removed
Cc: email_address_removed, email_address_removed
Subject: You go boy!
Message-ID: <message_id_removed>




Ernesto wrote:
>On FII on the other hand, the guys are much older and more experienced.
>Most of them have families now. They've tasted some success, but then
>experienced the hard reality of the music industry itself.  They've also
>gone through personal tragedies (JP losing his Dad). And once again this
>shows through the music.  I think one of the best aspects of DT's music is
>that their way of looking at like comes through the music, and their way of
>looking at life has changed (like everybody else's usually does)
>
>Ernesto

You've hit the nail on the head Ernesto!! The same thing happened when
Queensryche had that big 4 year break between Empire and Promised Land.
The band had time to reflect on their careers, their music, their lives,
what it all meant to them,
and the music took a different direction/feel. Many people said "this 
aint Queensryche anymore" but they couldn't have been farther from the truth.

An artists life is their environment to draw influence from (the canvas on
which they paint so to speak), and the end result in this case is their 
music, which in itself is a piece of artwork representing the mixed feelings
and experiences of each member. 

Along the same lines of what you've said Ernesto, this is the beauty of our
current CD in question. The band has taken me (us) to yet another place in
their minds, lives, and music. If people would Take The Time to look/listen
beneath the surface, they might realize that maybe it was not the bands 
intention to rocket listeners out of their seats with this recording, but
rather to use their music as a way to let The Voice Inside speak out.

If I sat down and wrote a song today, then I wrote a song 3 years from now,
and they both had the same feel and style, I would say it's time to lay the
guitar down. I wouldn't be writing music from my soul at that point in life,
I would be writing music just for the sake of playing another song. I think
bands like Dream Theater go a bit deeper than that. Thank God.

buster
http://users1.ee.net/buster - Dream Theater
http://www.dhpc.com/ryche/ - Queensryche


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 02:06:51 -0600
From: "Andrew Fors" <email_address_removed>
To: email_address_removed
Subject: FII
Message-ID: <message_id_removed>


  I have noticed several people saying that they don'rt care for a 
lot of FII, but I must say my piece.

  I love it, personally, I like it even better thn Awake, witht he 
exception of Space-Dyed Vest, I LOVE that song. So it may not sound 
like Awake or CoS for that matter. Dream Theater is edxpanding. Also 
remember that Kevin Moore wrote a lot of stuff. He's gone now so his 
style goes with him. Therefore Dream Theater must change. For the 
better, IMHO.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 02:06:51 -0600
From: "Andrew Fors" <email_address_removed>
To: email_address_removed
Subject: Winter Rose
Message-ID: <message_id_removed>


  Is there any place to get WInter Rose albums? I know it's glam, but 
I am open to it, and am curious to see what Labrie sounded like back 
then.

------------------------------

Date: 26 Sep 97  9:04:41 EDT
From: Hein Vandenabeele
To: ytsejam <email_address_removed>
Subject: -No Subject-
Message-ID: <message_id_removed>


<1) I think everybody that says the production on FII sucks should get a time
<machine and get back to the 80s. The production on this CD is great and it
<serves what it was meant to sound like. All the sounds are warm and nice and
<clear. Every song has different sounds from all the instruments. It sounds
<great. I take it personally when people bash the production on this CD. A
<big Fuck You to all of you.<<

<2) I think the songs are great. Everybody that wants Images and Words again
<should get a time machine and get back in time a few years, to be able to
<re-live the release of I&W. But don't clutter the jam with stupid comments
<like "it's not prog enough" (have you heard the CD?), "it's grungy" (HAVE
<YOU HEARD THE CD?????), etc.
<I think this is DT's finest effort ever.


Sooooooooo narrow minded .... Go Screw Yourself...


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 03:31:32 -0400
From: JB <email_address_removed>
To: email_address_removed
Subject: cryptic lyrics and bonus tracks (Jap rel.)
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970926033132.007d49d0@192.168.255.1>


It seems to me that DT is getting more cryptic... their lyrics have just as
much meaning, but it's more sheltered.  At first glance, some may say,
These lyrics suck... but with more observation/study, the same amount of
meaning can be derived from many of these songs.  (of course there are the
straightforward ones, that seems more for the public who has no idea what
lyrics are if a parental advisory sticker isn't on the cover). Keeping with
this, the suttleties tie over from the lyrics to the cover... our beloved
logo is more cryptic/hidden, the amazing solos/technical playing is still
there, but a little harder to hear at first glance....  All in all, I love
it... it gives the public a dose of good music (and if they can't
distinguish all the technical wizardry of these instrumentalists, then
they'll probably like it all the better), while giving DT fans what they've
come to love and expect from the band.

>If you'd like to know what songs on the bonus single CD with Japanese
>FII CD, visit my www site and download the jpg of the disc. Location is;

for crying out loud... stop trying to get "hits" to your web counter, and
just post the fricking information!!!  It's only posting 2 songs... it
doesn't take that much time to do, plus it saves all of us people who can't
read a lick of Japanese quite a bit of time.

After some searching and after getting out my magnifying glass, the extras
are "Take away my pain" (some other version, too small on the picture to
see), and "Speak to Me".


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Jason Brindel
Computer Engineering '97
Virginia Tech 
email_address_removed
http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/beamup
(540)961-7262
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 10:30:43 +0200
From: "Neil Gallop" <nga@software-ag.de>
To: "The Ytsejam Crowd" <email_address_removed>
Subject: Round hairy objects
Message-ID: <message_id_removed.de>


Hi all

quite a few people talking about Kevin Moore's balls lately. I thought
he had them chopped off when they went cancerous...

stay safe and happy listening
Neil Gallop
(nga@software-ag.de)
Currently playing: Bob Marley and the Wailers - Exodus

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 01:37:39 -0700 (MST)
From: durnik <email_address_removed>
To: email_address_removed
Subject: A quick thought or 2
Message-ID: <message_id_removed>


	"Concise" is the argument about FII, and whether it's right to be
concise if it's classic literature or film. The answer generally, is Yes.
In fact most literature and film has had considerable fat trimmed. Hell,
the Bible itself has apocrypha, books that those compiling the Bible felt
were not integral to the message and structure, and thus discarded. The
movie Dune had over 20 hours of footage filmed for it, cutting out
outtakes and errors it clocked in at 9 hours. But even the 3.5-hour TV
version is a chore to watch, even if you're a Dune fan, and the 2.5-hour
theatrical cut is slightly lengthy but "just about right", because the
story may wander a bit less, but the scope is implied just the same.
Songwriters that can take a 20 minute song and express the same thing in 5
minutes are getting a lot more out of every note, a lot more out of every
word, basically it makes the music itself qualitatively better. So yes,
it's fair to say that, for example, Take Away My Pain, is a better written
song than, for example, Light Fuse and Get Away. Both are complex, both
are lyrically noteworthy, but LFAGA has an extra minute and still doesn't
manage to cover even half the musical ground that TAMP does. TAMP
expresses more, does more, emotes more, implies more, defines more, and
basically IS more, as a song, and yet it's the shorter tune, and we've
already established that neither tune is a stinker. So where does that
leave us? Apparently between 1987 and 1996, DT learned a little bit about
how to be concise without "lossy compression". :)

	Anyway all your commentary on FII, copious though it is, has been
actually fairly pleasant to wade through compared to the fecal landslide
that erupted when Awake came out. As different as you may feel that FII is
to the DT catalog, consider that IAW was most peoples' first DT album,
WDADU was often thought of as subsidiary because KJ LaBrie wasn't on it,
and when Awake came out, our entire concept of DT that pigeonholed them as
the Images And Words Band was shattered. Even those who dislike FII aren't
giving it nearly the amount of shit that Awake received here and elsewhere
when it was released. And now look back... most DT fans consider Awake to
be nearly the equal of IAW, and consider it as canon as any DT has been. I
have a feeling when DT's next album, "Crystal Illusion", is released in
the year 2000, that the arguments will crop up all over again. ;)

	Southwestern Arizona got slammed pretty hard by Hurricane Nora
today. In the metro Phoenix area, we got off light, with rain by the
bucketload but no mass destruction. I'd have stopped CD production and
shut down the system to avoid lightning damage, but a) there was little
lightning, and b) I ran out of CDRs 2 hours after I woke up. :) Not to
worry folks, I'll just buy more tomorrow as usual. It was kinda cool to
actually see clouds in the furnace we call "Sky".

	If any of you are desperate to unload old Nintendo Virtual Boy,
Sega CD, and Sega 32X games, let me know. I can't say as how I'll give you
much for them, given that the games for all 3 systems are on clearance
everywhere for between 50 cents and 3 bucks, but it beats having a garage
sale. :) I could also use a Sega CD II unit itself, the one with the flip
top and not the CD drawer. Mine is really buggy and worn out (got it for
$15 off the open box table at Best Buy). Also, I can't afford another
Playstation (sold mine to Chung Ng some months back) but I want one
anyway, and if anyone's itching for some CDs, we can work a trade. Deficit
spending; it's the American way. :) It doesn't matter how new or old the
PSX is because I can modify it regardless.

	More DT content: T-Shirts for sale!! All in excellent condition
(worn 2-3 times or less) unless noted, and washed clean. All are size
Large, not Extra Large, and dammit those don't fit me because I'm a really
fat guy. :) Otherwise I'd be wearing them.

DT A Change of Seasons -Japan 95 version- longsleeve white w/cover - $40
DT A Change of Seasons -Japan 95 ver- shtsleeve black w/band photo - $35
Rush Counterparts Tour - Black, gold nutnbolt b/w triangle w/dates - $20
	The low price is because my little sister wore it a couple times
AC/DC - 1995 tour - Forest green w/white print - NEVER worn. - $20
Pink Floyd - Bell tour "Animals" theme shirt - black w/embroidery - $25
Magic The Gathering Mana Symbols (Pro Tour Qualifier prize '96) - $25
	The above shirt looks REALLY fuckin' cool. Trust me on that. I am
	half tempted to rip the sleeves and collar out and keep it, as a
	"around the house" shirt, cuz then it would sorta fit.

I nope nobody was offended by that content, since I think it's relevant.
Take care everyone.

-Mike email_address_removed://www.goodnet.com/~durnik/


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 02:17:12 -0700
From: email_address_removed (Dr. Mosh)
To: email_address_removed
Subject: How About that SNARE?!
Message-ID: <message_id_removed>



Is Portnoy playing one of those Pringles tubes again?

I thought it was a Tama snare... ?   I could be wrong... :)

-The Doc

-- 
#$%*#$*@                 E-MAIL: email_address_removed                     #$%#$#$%
_+_+_+_+           Unix, Internet, Intranet Engineering                _+_+_+_+
[][][][]               Dr. Mosh's Progressive Feast                    [][][][]
#$@#$#@#               http://progmetal.gmsnet.com                     @#$@##@$

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 12:58:39 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Marton Magocsi <email_address_removed.hu>
To: email_address_removed
Subject: Re: Re: The worst DT album yet???
Message-ID: <message_id_removed.hu>



  Eckie and Dan Temmesfeld, thanks for your thoughts. I _was_ a bit too
drastic. First of all, I should have used the title "The DT album I like
least" instead of "The worst DT album yet???". That's because I just
don't like this album as much as I like previous DT albums. It's
all right for me to do that, isn't it? Secondly, I shouldn't have tried to
support my feelings with all those reasons, because it got me into talking
about stuff I don't know that much about. [design, music
producing and writing, etc.] However, I do not think I'm close minded, or
lack the _brain power_. I grew to like Dream Theater because of the
impressions their music made in me, and the depth of the lyrics and music
that made making impressions possible. I don't care if the musicians are
lousy as long as the music touches me, and makes me think, etc. Somehow,
lyrics matter more than the music to me. Maybe that's one of the reasons
(there I go again) I do not like this album as much as the previous
albums. I meant the post to be about my personal impressions, not the
(non existent) REALITY.

 I guess I wasn't too successful, sorry I'm alive: Marton Magocsi
						 email_address_removed.hu
					
                                   


------------------------------

Date: 26 Sep 97 13:04:08 EDT
From: Hein Vandenabeele
To: ytsejam <email_address_removed>
Subject: -No Subject-
Message-ID: <message_id_removed>


< No. This is why I don't like the production. Others may have other
<reasons.
< To me, the most basic definition of what constitutes good production is
<this: A full, big sound that surrounds you, but, most importantly, one in which
<you can clearly distinguish every part and hear everything that every 
<instrument plays. Obviously, there are other factors, but if a producer doesn't
<at least get this right, then it makes the music very difficult for me to 
listento. Awake had excellent production for this reason. <And although some 
would
<disagree, I love the sound on I&W as well, for the same reason. On FII, the 
<guitar and keys are often really indistinguishable from one another. It's not 
<that they're mixed too low, there's just too much noise. A lot of it has to do
<with the guitar tones used. Who's responsible for this decision, I have no 
<idea.
<>Or maybe it's because this isn't I&W, or Awake, or ACoS, and you're all
<>bent out of shape because you were expecting one of those. I'm sorry,
<
< God damn it I'm sick of this shit. Am I the only person on this list 
<who thinks that this is the most idiotic argument they've ever heard? What the
<fuck is wrong with liking I&W, which I do, and being dissapointed that the 
<band has gone in a completely different direction? It's not like people are 

Totally agreed... I definitely do NOT have the same overwhelming feeling as I 
had with IaW. Period.

 However I respect that this is somebody elses opinion.


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 14:38:19 +0000
From: LoneWolf <email_address_removed.ac.at>
To: email_address_removed
Subject: Hollow Years
Message-ID: <message_id_removed.ac.at>



One of the most beautiful songs ever, but ...
OUCH  :"(


            _                                                     
          / \      _-'                                           
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   __-' { |          \   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  
        /             \   .                ,.   ,   ,.   .  ,_   
       /       "o.  |o }  |    ,-. ,-. ,-. `|  /|  / ,-. |  |_   
       |            \ ;   |    | | | | |-'  | / | /  | | |  |    
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          \_         __\          email_address_removed
            ''-_    \.//         Enter my spaceship at           
              / '-____'   http://stud1.tuwien.ac.at/~e8825527/
             /           ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  
           _'          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
         _-'                                                     

              " Some people been holdin' back their love so long
                        I think they're 'bout to burst "
                                - Spock's Beard



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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3024
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