YTSEJAM Digest 2641 Today's Topics: 1) Re: Megadeth / progressive ? by email_address_removed (Scott Cook) 2) This may be my planet, but it's Skadz' jam. by "KorgX3" 3) Ack.. Spicegirls?? (Used to be: Just caught up...) by "Oppurtunistic Fairy-Godmother" 4) Re: Rhoads, Free speech by The Digital Man 5) RE: Symphony X confusion... by "Trevor W. Hoit" 6) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2640 by Ack! 7) Re: Bride by "The Evil Midnight Bomber" 8) traders by "The Evil Midnight Bomber" 9) Vinnie defends Satch and Megadeth, take 2 ;)~ by "Vincent G. LuPone" 10) Re: Derek vs. Kevin by email_address_removed 11) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2640 by email_address_removed 12) Re: Rhoads, Free speech by email_address_removed 13) White Wolf again by Pat Griffin 14) Guitar playing thread by "The Notorious B.I.G. S.W.I.F.T.Y." 15) Re: Guitar playing thread by email_address_removed 16) Sorry, just _One_ more... by email_address_removed 17) Re: by WhiteWolf ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:42:33 -0700 From: email_address_removed (Scott Cook) To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Megadeth / progressive ? Message-ID: >| Megadeth? Progressive? You can't be serious. > >Check out "Holy Wars...Punishment Due". It is without a doubt the >best song I've ever heard. Lot of cool shit going on in that song (which is >what progressive music is...in my book). Also, the new single, Trust, has some progressive elements. I don't really want to start a debate of whether they're progressive or not, but they do have what I feel are a lot of progressive elements to their music. Megadeth to me is one of the most interesting bands around. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:25:56 +0000 From: "KorgX3" To: email_address_removed Subject: This may be my planet, but it's Skadz' jam. Message-ID: > >Twelve words for White Wolf: Shut the fuck UP already about whether > >Metallica sold out or not. > > > Spoken with true eloquece and class, Chris...really. Correct me if I'm > wrong, because I could've sworn we lived in a democracy. You know, that > little freedom of speech thingy? It's obvious no one is entitled to their own > opinion around here, because there's always someone ready to rip them a > new orfice. I thought Skadz already put his proverbial foot down on this... Let it die. KorgX3 a.k.a. Pastor of Muppets email_address_removed "Yay, yay, ormschperdinki du! Yay bork schperduggin dieder, Bork, Bork Bork!" ---Some Swede Muppet ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:29:43 PDT From: "Oppurtunistic Fairy-Godmother" To: email_address_removed Subject: Ack.. Spicegirls?? (Used to be: Just caught up...) Message-ID: >Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:21:01 -0500 (CDT) >From: Pat Griffin >To: ThE NuGgeTjAm >Subject: Just caught up... >Message-ID: email_address_removed> >Just waded through about 25 jams. That's what I get for starting a >new >job. :) >Anyway, I just got off the phone with Mike Portnoy, and he said to let >everyone know things are going well in the studio. The new CD should >be >out in the fall, followed by a dual-headline tour with DT and >Eternity-X >sharing the stage, and The Spice Girls opening. >=20 Don't get me wrong, I'm all for DT touring, and with Eternity-X, cool, great.. But Spice Girls? Baaaarf... Alison |\_/| |@ @| +--------------vvvV----Vvvv-----------------+ | V"V | | Alison Clark | email_address_removed | +------------------------------------------------+ | http://members.aol.com/bardtirla/lair.html | +------------------------------------------------+ | "All cats die. Socrates is dead. Therefore, | | Socrates is a cat." --Logician | +------------------------------------------------+ --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:31:22 -0400 (EDT) From: The Digital Man To: A Pleasant Shade of Ytse Subject: Re: Rhoads, Free speech Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jun 1997, WhiteWolf wrote: > >Twelve words for White Wolf: Shut the fuck UP already about whether > >Metallica sold out or not. > > > Spoken with true eloquece and class, Chris...really. I've been studying your technique. > Correct me if I'm wrong, because I could've sworn we lived in a democracy. Actually, we live in two different democracies, but who's counting? > You know, that > little freedom of speech thingy? It's obvious no one is entitled to their own > opinion around here, because there's always someone ready to rip them a > new orfice. Everyone is entitled to have any opinion about anything they damned well please. However, no one is entitled to voice their opinions about whether Metallica sold out or not on this list. If you don't like that, you can either yell at the list moderator, leave, or (as I said the first time) shut the fuck up about it. But don't whine to me about free speech. I don't make the rules here. > In my opinion, any musician who changes *strictly for the sake of higher > record sales*, is a sell-out. Not only to their fans, but to themselves. > You've got > to stay true to yourself and what you believe in musically. However, > there's something to be said for growing & maturing musically, as well. I hope that's not a picket fence, cause your ass is gonna hurt something fierce if you don't get off it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ Secretary & Webmaster email_address_removed "@'/ ,. \`@" UVM Comp Sci Student Assn email_address_removed /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.emba.uvm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" - Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Maintainer of the Official Dream Theater Frequently Asked Questions List http://www.emba.uvm.edu/~cmerlo/dtfaq.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:55:05 -0700 From: "Trevor W. Hoit" To: "'email_address_removed'" Subject: RE: Symphony X confusion... Message-ID: >Okay, I know that "Damnation Game" was released in 1995. But what I don't >know is when "Symphony X' was released. On the back of my CD case, it >says (c) 1996, and yet on the inside it says: All songs (c) 1994. >Hopefully it was merely re-released in 1996. >Just to make sure, on "Symphony X", their singer was Rod Tyler while on >Damnation Game, it's Russell Allen. I don't want to make it seem like it >was ALL Rod Tyler's fault that "Symphony X" blew, it did have some pretty >bad production too. SX must have been re-released because Russell Allen sings on DWoT. I don't think they would have gotten a new singer and then went back to the old one. Also, self-titled albums are usually the first. In any case, just buy DWoT. It's even better than DG. > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 03:05:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Ack! To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2640 Message-ID: What do I have to do to unsubscribe??? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:27:22 +0000 From: "The Evil Midnight Bomber" To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Bride Message-ID: > Didn't know they were still around. Dale's got an incredible vocal range, > comparable to michael Sweet...better actually. I personally don't think Dale Thompson's voice is comparable to Sweet's. Dale's is much more gritty and ballsy. He shows a good low range a lot, too. He seems to sing with more overt feeling than Sweet. Oddly enough, Dale was asked to replace Sweet in Stryper, and even did a couple gigs with them circa Against the Law. >Did you know that Bride is a Christian Band? just a curisity. Yeah, I know that. I've been into them WAY back when Silence is Madness was new. I've seen them numerous times, and have talked with the members some. Very friendly guys. And there is some killer music by bands with Christian members, you just have to look a little hard for it. Tourniquet, Believer, Fourth Estate, Atomic Opera, Stavesacre, Circle of Dust, Iona, and many others. I listen to bands because they're good, Christian or not. Dale R. Newberry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:31:48 +0000 From: "The Evil Midnight Bomber" To: email_address_removed Subject: traders Message-ID: Also, on the subject of bad vs. good traders, I haven't been ripped off by anyone on the jam yet. Some trades have takena while to get filled (sometimes because of me), but they've all gone through, and I've been greatly pleased with the results. To be completely honest, I haven't been screwed over by anyone on any list yet. maybe I've just been really fortunate. Dale R. Newberry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:29:51 -0600 From: "Vincent G. LuPone" To: email_address_removed Subject: Vinnie defends Satch and Megadeth, take 2 ;)~ Message-ID: At 11:10 PM 6/16/97 -0700, you wrote: > Just because something sounds cool, doesn't mean it's progressive or in >odd-meter. Yeah, I've heard that song. Even though I haven't analyzed the >time signatures, it's pretty safe to say it's in 4/4 time. No one said anything about odd-meters. "Odd meters" does not = progressive. Odd meters are an optional element. :) >>I couldn't agree more, however, Randy made more of an impact on guitarists, >>musicians, and fans in 2 short years, and 3 albums (including Tribute), >>than Satch has in six albums. Don't get me wrong, I like Satch, but he >>can't hold a candle to Randy. The man was a genius. >> Yeah, and Satch had all the exposure, ya know, touring w/ Ozzy and such. Come on dude. Satch recorded his first real album on a credit card. He is an instrumental rock player, not a lead guitarist for the most widely known heavy metal figure at that time. Joe is a legend. So was Randy. Why say one is better than the other. Vincent G. LuPone, email_address_removed |============================================| |"Shoot it through your veins, | |masking all your pains" - Obscure | |--------------------------------------------| |"I've seen the man use the needle. | |I've seen the needle use the man." -Megadeth| |--------------------------------------------| |"Obey your master!!" - Metallica | |============================================| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:59:34 -0700 (MST) From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Derek vs. Kevin Message-ID: It's not a question of "who's better" when comparin' a couple like Sherinian and Moore. They're both SO well talented and equipped and kick so much ass, it's a question of style and tastes. I personally like the way Derek is putting more balls into the group with the heavier shit, ya know...the stuff crunching around ACoS really starts my fire! Vince, me, and a friend of ours, who I have to just thank about a 1000 times for buying the CD for me 'cuz I'm so fuckin' broke, went out and bought our copies of Cryptic Writings today at Midnight.... ..unFUCKINGbelievable! Mustaine is a fuckin' genius.... Oh, and to you MR. BAHR!!! I WOULD _LOVE_ TO GET MY HANDS ON THAT CD OF THE FRI. 13TH MESA AMPITHEATER SHOW!!!! :) You fuckin' rule man! 'Kay, anyways....I really like the way DT is goin' heavier with the new stuff...a little bit of crunchiness doesn't hurt anybody, 'cept for Bush fans. ~Eckie On Mon, 16 Jun 1997, Jeremy P. Kube wrote: > Hey all, > I have wondered for the last few months what consensus of fellow > jammers was on the subject of who was better, Kevin or Derek? Or, is > everyone just waiting for the new album to come out before forming an > opinion? I don't know, just something bugging me. Lata, J > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 04:05:22 -0400 (EDT) From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2640 Message-ID: In a message dated 97-06-17 02:46:35 EDT, you write: << I have wondered for the last few months what consensus of fellow jammers was on the subject of who was better, Kevin or Derek? Or, is everyone just waiting for the new album to come out before forming an opinion? I don't know, just something bugging me. Lata, J >> Oh shit. Richie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 01:10:47 -0700 (MST) From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Rhoads, Free speech Message-ID: I believe he was um...trying to prevent ANOTHER thread (*Oh shit! I'm contributing to it!*) that this list does NOT deserve to go through again! There are a lot of Metallica fans, me being one, who've heard the same shit whining and want to defend the band on a DREAM THEATER list. So, don't take this as an assault on your freedom of speech, 'cuz it's NOT! This is a _DT_ list that's already had enuff of the "Metallica sold out..." shit! Man, I think this kinda public note is a first for me. :P I think you ALSO need to go back and check out Holy Wars...the Punishment Due again. It's a bit more complex than a "simple 4/4 thrash song". I would LOVE to see Megadeth tour with Dream Theater...wasn't there some sorta company politics that prevented such a show from happening? Speakin' of killer shows...Ozzfest's gonna be hittin' the valley of the sun reallllllly soon.... Man, I wish there was another DT release to talk about. :P ~Eckie's overdosing on "Cryptic Writings" > Spoken with true eloquece and class, Chris...really. Correct me if I'm > wrong, because I could've sworn we lived in a democracy. You know, that > little freedom of speech thingy? It's obvious no one is entitled to their own > opinion around here, because there's always someone ready to rip them a > new orfice. > In my opinion, any musician who changes *strictly for the sake of higher > record sales*, is a sell-out. Not only to their fans, but to themselves. > You've got > to stay true to yourself and what you believe in musically. However, > there's something to be said for growing & maturing musically, as well. > > > =================================== > Open your eyes...and your mind will follow. > =================================== > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 03:32:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Pat Griffin To: ThE NuGgeTjAm Subject: White Wolf again Message-ID: That fucknut wrote: > Spoken with true eloquece and class, Chris...really. Correct me if >I'm wrong, because I could've sworn we lived in a democracy. You know, >that little freedom of speech thingy? It's obvious no one is entitled to >their own opinion around here, because there's always someone ready to >rip them a new orfice. Yeah, really. I mean, you would think that in a democracy people would be entitled to any opinions they might have. Like music for instance. Wouldn't you agree, White Wolf, that in a democracy people are free to choose the music they want to listen to? Like Dream Theater? Or Alanis Morissette? I mean, in a democracy a person should even be able to listen to *both* of them, even though they are vastly different music styles, right? I mean, we *do* have freedom and all, right White Wolf? What? What do you mean a Ytsejammer can't listen to Alanis? Even in a democracy? Oh, ok. Well, in that case, don't cry to us about your precious freedom of speech. Which amendment covered 'the freedom of posting just to see yourself talk'? I forget... There is a common thread on this list: we like music. Not just Dream Theater, music. Not just prog, music. Not just The White Wolf Top 20, music. We don't care if Metallica sold out; we stopped caring about that 3 months ago when the topic was beaten into the ground the first time. We are all different people, and we have the freedom to not give a shit what you think. I'm tired of seeing your name in the Ytsejam index, because 90% of your posts are hypocritical and self-serving. D-man feels the same way, and from the look of the last jam, so does Skadz. This *is* democracy, and you have the right to not give a shit what Chris and I think, but in *this* country, Skadz is the president, and if you don't listen to what he says, you will be exiled. You can go ahead and try to turn this post around on me. You can try to make me look bad or seem like an asshole, and maybe I am, but I'm an asshole who's telling it like it is and laying the cards out on the table for you. The fact is, I don't see people seriously complaining about my humor, or the content of my posts, or getting offended by what I say, and since you poked your head out of whatever hole you were hiding in, every post that talks about you has complained. Go ahead and pick a card, I'll bet you it's not the Ace. Well, excersizing my freedom of choice and speech, I choose to break out another Tool .sig because it seems so appropriate. Happy Jamming. Tool - Eulogy T No way... to recall T What it was that you had said to me O Like I care at all O O So loud. O You sure could yell. L You took a stand on every little thing L And so loud. T You had alot to say. T You had alot of nothing to say. O O Come down. O Get off your fuckin cross. O We need the fuckin space to nail the next fool martyr. L L Tool - Eulogy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 03:35:27 -0500 From: "The Notorious B.I.G. S.W.I.F.T.Y." To: email_address_removed Subject: Guitar playing thread Message-ID: > >I couldn't agree more, however, Randy made more of an impact on guitarists, > >musicians, and fans in 2 short years, and 3 albums (including Tribute), > >than Satch has in six albums. Don't get me wrong, I like Satch, but he > >can't hold a candle to Randy. The man was a genius. > > > Indeed. Randy achieved in two short years what most guitarists take a > lifetime to accomplish...the status of "Guitar Legend". There will never be > another Randy...he was the best ever. Dead or alive, it doesn't matter. > He'd have to be followed a very close second by Criss Oliva. This is a very sticky issue. RR died 7 years before I even picked up a guitar. He was one of the first players that I feebly attempted to imitate while I was first learning to play. But I've got much more experience under my belt now, as well as a more mature and educated perspective. The standards of rock guitar playing have been upped exponentially since the days when RR ruled the roost. Can anyone else imagine a world where Jimmy Page is considered to be the be all, end all, as far as guitar playing is concerned? I cannot, since I am but a tyke of 23 years. But that was the case (I think) just before Rhoads hit the scene big-time. In the 15 years since his death, the average guitar player has improved drastically. I can physically play everything that RR played. Does that make me a great player, or does it make him any less great for coming up with the things he did? Of course not. But it does make me think about the respect that he deserves as a player from a bygone era. I have found, to my unending dismay, that young players nowadays do not appreciate the subtle inflections on one's playing that years of experience will incorporate. There is nothing more inspiring than watching a person of 40 years play guitar. It's not because they've been working on their technique all that time. Rather, they have had 10 or 20 more years than I have had to perfect their approach to the guitar, and any little thing I can absorb from their playing will be held my me in very high regard. It's an Army thing, I guess: Be all you can be. I know that I'm not the only one who has fantasized about being magically placed on a stage 25 years ago and dazzling the world with my abilities. Although they are substandard now, back then I would have set the musical world (jazz excluded) on its ear. I believe that RR should be given a permanent place in the history of rock music. Satriani deserves a niche of his own, though, and it should be just as prominent. In my opinion, one of the great injustices in music is the fact that Rhoads was killed when he was just beginning to feel comfortable with his highly unorthodox style of playing. There can be no question that Satriani became a more techinally accomplished player than Rhoads, if for no other reason than RR's unrealized potential. But JS broke as much ground as Rhoads did as far as guitar playing is concerned, if for no other reason than the fact that he had time to mature before our very ears. Neither RR nor JS is the perfect guitar player. Satriani built upon the fantasic and wealth-filled foundation that Rhoads built. Our very own John Petrucci has absorbed elements from both of their playing styles and effectively raised the bar once again with his advances, technically, melodically, harmonically, and intellectually. Is this to say that any one of the aforementioned players is or was better than another? Not at all. They should all be listened to and appreciated as what they are: complements to one another. Take away the contibutions of any one of them and we all suffer a great musical loss. Historical perspective is important. So is personal preference. Don't rely on one player to provide everything there is to be offered musically. Instead, listen and pay attention to everything you can get your hands on. After all, we've gone from Scotty Moore to John Petrucci in less than 40 years. Imagine what the next 40 years have to offer. Anyway, they've all got a lot of catching up to do if they are to keep up with Igor Stravinsky :) And if you're a tape trader: Pick me, I'm clean! :) Long live Frank Zappa, Mark Peters email_address_removed ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 01:56:45 -0700 (MST) From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Guitar playing thread Message-ID: Damn straight! ~Eckie backs up that one with a one-liner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:16:13 -0700 (MST) From: email_address_removed To: Ytsejam Mailing List Subject: Sorry, just _One_ more... Message-ID: Best CD of the year: Megadeth: Cryptic Writings. Let's see if DT can produce one this year to beat it out.... >;) Yeah, we were in Zia records out here at midnight pickin' up our copies of CW, and this big guy in the back with a wicked cool beard just started goin' "Attention Zia customers, this is my last day here, and I have worked here for over a year now, and have grown to love each and every one of you...much like Santa Claus. But I swear, if anybody tries to pull any shit tonight, I'm gonna flip. So anybody not buying the Megadeth CD's can bring their merchandise to the desk and leave the store, and those of you buying your new Megadeth CD's can go towards the tapes and novelties section and grow to love one another, and discuss the concert on Friday, and how you hated how they didn't play Wake Up Dead live because they suck because they don't play thier stuff from the 80's, and then form a line....blah blah blah blah, (insert more rant)" What a fuckin' goofball. I was moved. ~Eckie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 04:23:24 -0600 From: WhiteWolf To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970617042324.00689418@autobahn.mb.ca> >WW wrote: >>Besides DT and Savatage & Ozzy, I'm into: >>Tesla, Phil Collins, Bride, Michael Sweet, Nitro...and my >>collection is filled with smatterings of White Lion, Winger, >>Richie Sambora, Def Leppard, Bad 4 Good, Firehouse, etc. > >[Butthead mode on] > >Shut up Stuart! ;-) > >[Butthead mode off] > Hey, bud...who's Stuart? > You ever heard "Holy Wars, The Punishment Due", or "Wake Up Dead"?! They >may not be going into 154/347 time signature, but they're fuckin' progressive. > Yeah, I have. And if you think they're prog...fine, I'm not wasting space arguing with you. >>Metallica: ...And Justice for All!!! Sorry, I'm playin' Quake with that >>disk tonight...it kicks ass. After I finish the first episode I'm goin' >>back to Megadeth though.... >> > One word for Metallica: sell-outs. > > Um, it's two words, bunky :) > Check the hyphen...one word. > Also, if you think AJFA is a sell-out album, you seriously need to pull >your head out from, well, you know where. > I never said that...AJFA is a good disc. >>=================================== >>There's no such thing as a gangster rapper. >>=================================== > > I think it was best on the American Music Awards when TuPac won for "Best >Rapper". Just goes to show you, the best rapper is a dead one. > The two don't go together. The first code of being a gangster is silence...if you're a rapper, you talk too god damn much and give the business away in the song. Then, you get your name-dropping ass killed. > >To me this doesn't make any sense. Since Megadeth hasn't toured with DT >they aren't progressive? If you ask some prog fans they'll tell you the >same thing about DT; they're Metal, not progressive. > Sorry, let me rephrase this. Usually, the criteria for an opening act is that they're at least the same genre as the headliner. Like, you'll never see Slayer or Venom open for DT. >in 1967 Jimi Hendrix opened for the Monkees, does this mean he doesn't >know how to play the guitar or that if you're over 12 you can't enjoy his >music? > No, it does not. =================================== Open your eyes...and your mind will follow. =================================== ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 2641 **************************