YTSEJAM Digest 2580 Today's Topics: 1) henrik by Dave 2) henrik by Dave 3) Magna Carta? by "Blevins, Mike" 4) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2579 by Dave 5) ELP reply recommendation by Randall Braun 6) "Simple" Music and Rap by "Simon Mitternacht" 7) Various by "Mark Fitchett" 8) Yup, it was me... by durnik 9) Re: Various by Andrew Miller 10) Re: Rap by Adam 11) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2578 by Adam 12) Re: Yup, it was me... by "Mr. B" 13) Reviews... by email_address_removed 14) DT ON THE RADIO by email_address_removed 15) re: History of the (DT) future, part I by Pat Sullivan 16) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2578 by Adam ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 14:47:37 -0400 From: Dave To: email_address_removed Subject: henrik Message-ID: >And if the others in DT wasn't striving for a TOP-40 hit, or glory, he >would still be with them, uhhhh....yeah, RIGHT top 40? glory? how much crack do you smoke a day? buster ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 14:50:20 -0400 From: Dave To: email_address_removed Subject: henrik Message-ID: >My biggest concern about DT is that they want to become popular! For what >reason? They have here thousands of die-hard fans, what more do they want? gee, i dunno, maybe permission to record an album when all the material is ready? you know, one of those silly little priveledges a band gets when they become popular....oh yeah, and sometimes it even comes with an official tour! pass me the crack pipe.... buster ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 14:47:08 -0400 From: "Blevins, Mike" To: "'email_address_removed'" Subject: Magna Carta? Message-ID: >Ok, now that we know WHAT the problem is ( ie, DT's label is unwilling or >unable to support them ), how do we go about solving it? I would think >that they would be better served by a record company that exists to >further the cause of progressive music -- what would it take to get them >on Magna Carta? If the contract with their current record company is up >soon ( hopefully after this album ) I would suggest to anyone with any >pull with the band or their management to get them there. > Um, Yeah. If I were DT's management, I would suggest that even an unsupportive major is better than a Magna Carta, and that's no crack on MC. For example, _I_ can't find Shadow Gallery or Magellan anywhere but Tower, whereas I can walk in anywhere and get a DT disc. From a musician's standpoint, it is better to be on a major than an indie like MC. Now if we're talking about CMC, we may have a useful point. CMC has made a huge business out of knowing how many albums a band will sell (roughly), and giving them the budget they need to keep everybody happy. And they get the same distribution as the majors - hell, they really ARE a major. A band like DT that may will sell 500,000 - 750,000 every time is perfect for that label. After all, that's how Rush kept their deal in the 70's - Polygram knew the minimum they'd sell every time out, so even though they didn't sell platinum every time, they were still profitable. Magna Carta, on the other hand, is too small for a band of this level (I think they might even agree with me here). So I think you have a good idea, but probably the wrong choice of labels. Frankly, I'm surprised Atlantic didn't manage to kill them like they did all of the other cool bands they signed. Happy, but surprised. Now that Eastwest is owned by Elektra, who seem to be hellbent on putting themselves out of business, things will only be worse, I'm sure... Mike DIVISION - DC Power/Prog is alive, and is mistakenly said to be playing with Slaughter. We don't like this idea... web: http://www.crosslink.net/~division human email: email_address_removed ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 14:54:05 -0400 From: Dave To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2579 Message-ID: > >Since I didn't get any responses the first time, I'll try again. Does >anyone have the text or a pointer to the article in which Blind Melon >expressed his opinion of DT? I don't have the text for you, but I read it. They put down a couple of other greats as well, including Satriani saying it was senseless guitar wanking. buster ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:06:23 -0500 From: Randall Braun To: "'email_address_removed'" Cc: "'rel96dim@student2.lu.se'" Subject: ELP reply recommendation Message-ID: Quoth 2574...My father recently gave me "Works, Volume 2" by Emerson, Lake and Palmer. And I love it. I don't know much about these guys, could somebody recommend another record/s with them and perhaps give me some general info? Reply...ELP was first formed ~1970. Keyboardist Keith Emerson came from a group called 'The Nice', which did a lot of rock arrangements of classical music (which continued in ELP). Vocalist/Bassist/Guitarist (mostly acoustic)/Lyricist Greg Lake came from the first incarnation of 'King Crimson' (first two albums). Drummer/Percussionist Carl Palmer came from 'Atomic Rooster'/ 'The Crazy World of Arthur Brown' (some you annually challenged Y'Jammers, such as myself, may recall the song 'Fire', which I believe was re-recorded by ELP on one of their compilation CD sets.) They also considered adding a guitarists-two prominent names brought up were Jimi Hendrix & Steve Howe-but this never happened. ELP recorded ~10 albums (studio, live & Best of) before breaking up in the early 1980's. The members did various solo projects and appeared in various short-lived bands (Emerson, Lake and (Cozy) Powell), ('3'- Emerson, Palmer & ? Barry). Greg Lake recorded the well known rock Christmas song 'Father Christmas', the original orchestral/choir mix only appeared as a single, & later on a compilation CD set, which is also on the mentioned Works Vol.2. Works Vol.1 includes a complete classical piano concerto by Emerson. ELP reformed in the early 1990's and has done at least 2 studio CD's and one live CD (recorded in London). I believe they are still touring at present (at least recently). ELP, along with Yes, are among the archetypal progressive bands, the bands that defined what progressive rock would become. Keith Emerson is still one of the best rock keyboardists. He started with the Hammond Organ & piano, and gradually introduced the synthesizer into rock. ELP was/is one of the few rock bands that hasn't ever used a lead guitarist. Emerson does the leads on keys. IMHO, the best ELP album is 'Brain Salad Surgery' (the single, which also appears on Works Vol.2, was released with, but was not included on the album with the same name). The concept piece 'Tarkus' (on the album of same name) is also highly recommeded, as are 'Trilogy' & the self-titled first album (mostly organ & piano, the synthesizer was just beginning to be used.) (The well known piece 'Lucky Man' with its famous synthesizer ending is on album one.) 'Black Moon', the first CD after the band reformed, is also quite good. If you recognize classical music, you'll notice that Emerson uses a lot of classical music in his compositions; sometimes this is noted on the albums, sometimes not. The compositions of the band 'Mastermind', which is mentioned occasionally on the JAM, is highly influenced by ELP. -Randall email: email_address_removed ***"We are Microsoft. We will assimilate you" -Star Trek TNG parody*** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 22:37:43 +0200 From: "Simon Mitternacht" To: "Ytsejam" Subject: "Simple" Music and Rap Message-ID: <9705222036.AA12001@nomina.lu.se> >Dream Theater tunes such as Space Dye Vest. Do Dream Theater have other songs similar to SPV?? Eckie wrote: >Vince and I were discussing how annoying it is to endure this shit when >it comes on the radio, how boring it sounds, how uninspiring it is, and >how boring it is to play. Take the Time, on the other hand, is one of my >all-time fave songs, and I've only taken a look at the song/tab book and >haven't learned it yet, it's not an E pentatonic that gets the job done >in this song....try playing something in C# minor for a change, and see >what I mean. It's a little different than slamming that pick through an >Em chord over and over and over...it's a hell of a change, and I find it >refreshing. I agree that all this simple grunge-music is VERY boring to play. BUT I don't find it boring to listen to, some of those songs are great even though the performers aren't very technical. Not that I think Silverchair and Bush are good, but there are a whole lot of other "alternative" bands out there that really kick ass. I loved Nirvana (they get boring at times but most if it is good); I like the older Pearl Jam stuff; Soundgarden (all of it isn't as simple as you might think) one of the best concerts I've ever been to too. Smashing Pumpkins. If you only meant that the specific bands Bush and Silverchair sucked, then ok, I agree. But a song isn't _necessarily_ bad because it's simple (I've said this before). But in the long run I'd rather listen to DT though. :) I also agree with everybody who's defending rap, although I can't stand listening to most of it I can understand why some people like it and I respect that, and hope I get the same respect in return... (which I in 9 cases of 10 don't get ;) Some of the rockinfulenced rappers like Rage Against The Machine are awesome (Although this also has some "melody" content.) (Isn't MP a fan of rap music?) Another not-nice thing about rappers... At the MTV music awards last fall Snoop and Coolio were supposed to introduce best metal-video and when Snoop got the envelope he saw metallica and said: "The winner is... Metallica with 'Until it Sleeps'" then he wasn't sure and said "While it sleeps" and then he looked further down in the envelope and said "Until it sleeps", (Even my little sister knows the name of that song.) Snoop doggy dog didn't know the name of one the most played videos of 96! (that's the case here in europe at least). Even I who dislikes rap a lot recognized the nominated rap-songs and probably could have named the songs (all 4 :). I mean, although he doesn't like Metallica he should keep track of the music business. But this of course has nothing to do with rap music in general. song of the day: "Rebel Yell" - Billy Idol (STEVE STEVENS :) Simon Mitternacht http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/1233/ May the force be with you... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 97 19:47:06 UT From: "Mark Fitchett" To: email_address_removed Subject: Various Message-ID: First of all am I the only one missing Jam no's 2567 and 2572? My ISP has a bad habit of sending Jams all over the place and its real annoying losing the thread of conversations. Anyway enough of the whinging... I noticed someone mentioned TTT being used for a Toyota ad. First of all is this true or just more sarcasm? (remember if this was a US ad there are lots of outside-US jammers) and has anyone else seen any TV ads using Rock tracks? The one that stands out for me (UK tv) is an ad for Lucozade and they had Daley Thompson in it (who was a Olympic Gold Decathlete in '84 and '88) and they used the real fast bit at the start of "Phantom of the Opera" by Maiden. I though I would also post a couple of reviews of Cds - one New and one not so new.. Bruce Dickinson - Accident at Birth. 9.5/10 I dont know if this Cd has had a worldwide release yet but its been out since the 12th May here in the Uk and out of 12 tracks 11 are quite superb (Ive docked half a mark for "The Magician" which to these ears is a slight filler). This is the best CD Iron Maiden have made since 7th Son. Describing it I would say it is definitely Beast/Piece of Mind era songs with a '90s guitar edge. It has all the qualities of classic Maiden - Bruce's singing is quite excellent and there is plenty of dual guitars (Adrian Smith/Roy Z (havent heard of him before)) and clever guitar bits. In fact only the "high in the mix" bass of Steve Harris is missing. Its a joy to hear Smith back to playing what he's a master at and the dual guitar playing harks of the classic Murray/Smith comb. and shows (IMHO) what a fatal blow losing Smith was to Maiden and turned them into the parody of themselves Maiden are fast becoming. You can see from this that Iron Maiden certainly miss Bruce and Adrian a lot more than Bruce/Adrian miss Maiden. I cant wait to see them on tour (Smith is touring) and there is promise of some Maiden tunes being played. Spocks Beard - Beware of Darkness. 10/10 Just a quickie because this has been mentioned before. I heard the last half of "The Doorway" on the radio and on the strength of that bought this CD. Holy Shit! What a superb album - everything is brilliant but the last track "Time has Come" has for me to be one of the greatest tracks ever laid down, it is quite awesome. No band has moved me so much with a CD since DT and I cant wait to get "The Light" - if anyone has any comments on this ie. whether its better/worse etc than B.O.D. please feel free to e-mail me. Thanks. Buenos Noches ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 14:01:57 -0700 (MST) From: durnik To: email_address_removed Subject: Yup, it was me... Message-ID: Yes, Pat, it was me who did the Neil Peart Solo Montage and Rush Video Montage. It was those projects that gave me the "taste" for being a merchant here on the Jam, and when I closed off production of them in October 1994, I set to work on Subconscious. Ah, memories. Would anyone here want any sort of updated Rush video montage? There's tons more to include, and that's not even counting the two videos I still have to get (Half the World and Driven). - Mike Bahr - email_address_removed - http://www.goodnet.com/~durnik ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 16:08:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Andrew Miller To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Various Message-ID: >to get "The Light" - if anyone has any comments on this ie. whether its >better/worse etc than B.O.D. please feel free to e-mail me. Thanks. i thought i'd just respond to the jam with this... beware of darkness is *definitely* an excellent disc, but i feel that the light is even better. it consists of only 4 tracks yet it's a 60 minute long album. the tracks are quite grand and diverse. (btw, we're talking about spock's beard for those of you that don't realize this...). i think the light is definitely more progressive by the classic definition i.e. more time changes, long songs, etc. if you like BoD, you should really dig the light. just my .000012938 cents. -Andrew (subtlerage) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 17:16:43 -0400 From: Adam To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Rap Message-ID: >You guys are funny...you (myself included) want the whole world to be open >minded about DT and all that they have to offer, yet some of you are too >ignorant to realize that rap is an art form and also means a lot to a lot >of people. How hypocritical. Some people on this list should really grow >up and have respect. Jesus Christ... I started the rap thread and now really regret that I did. Tho' I believe in everything I said, I was just messin' around and didn't mean to start a whine-fest. Openmindedness doesn't mean liking everything out there. It means at least giving all available genres a fair chance. I've heard rap for years now, pretty much every day of those many years. I've given it more than a fair chance, and I really despise it. The people I call closedminded are those who won't give different types of music (or anything for that matter) a chance. My roommates, for example, won't listen to anything other than rap (so I STILL have to listen to it everyday) and alternative. Won't even try anything else. I've given rap a chance for a long time and have decided that it's pretty much a pointless, talentless genre. If you can dispute my impressions that rap has a severe lack of talent, pathetic (if any) musicianship, doesn't have repetitive bass beats that many people like to blast out of their cars, and that most rappers don't use their real names, then I'd love to hear what you have to say. So, in my not-so-humble-opinion, I'm about as far from hypocritical as can be. If you can show me otherwise, feel free. Take care... Adam http://www.mindspring.com/~alpineone ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 17:23:55 -0400 From: Adam To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2578 Message-ID: Buck said... >Adam wrote: >Subject: Labels...Rap... > >Ah... you made a reasonable error, i was talking about labeling MUSIC. >As many of us know, rap is not music... :) Good post though, sorry about >your Zippo. I just liked it too much not to take it... Hehehe. Finally, someone with a sense of humor about my rap post. The other responses I got ranged from calling me a hypocrite to a piece of shit that should burn in hell. I didn't dignify the burning in hell response, but I had to disagree with the guy calling me a hypocrite. Sheesh. :) And hey, you sorry bastard, gimme back the Zippo! (You're a piece of shit that should burn in hell). Hehe.. Take care... Adam ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 17:46:46 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mr. B" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Yup, it was me... Message-ID: On Thu, 22 May 1997, durnik wrote: > Would anyone here want any sort of updated Rush video montage? > There's tons more to include, and that's not even counting the two videos > I still have to get (Half the World and Driven). Mike...what do you think? Hells yeah!!!!!!!!! Brandon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 1986 17:21:52 -0700 From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Reviews... Message-ID: Hey all, I've been lurking for a couple of months because I really didn't have time to post anything useful. But now I do , so, you figure out what I'm doing :) The bad traders list is now dead! Just don't ask, but I will put up the reliable CD dealers people sent me. Rip and Chris both gone...hmm, in a word, SHIT!! I mean Rip was cool even without mooing and cow-related stuff. He used to bring up some awesome bands...And Chris used to give reviews that were more than rokz nadz or that sux...Hmm and now that I think of it some other regulars have stopped posting as much Digital Man(I know medical problems), Skadz, and others...anyway I've got some CD reviews to tell everyone so maybe everyone can get back into the swing of things, so here goes... Strapping Young Lad(City)- Okay, this much better than HAARHT. I really like Devin's vocals(yes, even on the Rush Tribute), he has range & power, and I love that!! Someone was asking about Gene Hoglan, well, I don't know anything about him BUT I air drum to this CD all the time(I don't know if that's good or not ;)! One song is a cover of a Dog Eat Dog song called Room 429, its pretty good. I like every song on this CD, except the first track Velvet Kevorkian(I used to like it, but since its the 1st track I heard it the most so I got sick of it). Get this CD if you can stand Dev's voice, ya wuss! SYL rokz my hai...naa, you've just got hear that part yourself! :) Weather Report(Heavy Weather)-I got this CD because it was on the Bass Player's top 30 bass albums(or something close to that). I've heard Jaco before,...but this still surprised me. I don't think if you're into metal you'll like this but if you into jazz...why the hell don't you have this CD! Birdland alone is worth the 9 bucks I paid for this. Nevermore(The Politics of Ecstasy)-I have In Memory and liked the first 3 songs(the last 2 just didn't catch me). OK, this is alright...Yeah right, Warrel Dane has a strange howl type singing style. Well, that's not a really right, its not a howl, its more of a I-can't-explain-type-of-things vocal style :) Really he has range & power (Re: Devin). Whoa, is that the bass I hear, yep it is! Jim Sheppard does some cool things with drummer Van Williams(but no solos from either). The guitarists, Jeff Loomis & Pat O'Brien, do some wicked shit(especially on Next In Line, the intro & that middle part are awesome with headphones)! Megadeth(Peace Sells...But Who's Buying)-Hmm, I'll tell you up front I don't like this CD. I didn't like Mustaine's voice, nor did I like Poland's guitar work...The song Peace Sells...But Who's Buying is the best song on here and its not that great...I don't know maybe this will grow on me but don't hold your breathe... Machine Head(The More Things Change...)-I've listened to this only twice and I like it. I can't give you anything more specific than it "rokz nadz" because I don't really remember it that well... Yes(Fragile)-Pretty darn good! Roundabout and Long Distance Runaround are the standouts for me here. The only song I didn't like was We Have Heaven...Musicanship-wise all I have to say is Jon Anderson - vocals; Bill Bruford - drums; Steve Howe - guitar; Chris Squire - bass; Rick Wakeman - keyboard-ish type things; Fates Warning(A Pleasant Shade of Gray)-Well I like this overall. I think everyone on this list has this CD so I don't think everybody needs MHO. John McCabe email_address_removed ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 19:10:22 -0400 (EDT) From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: DT ON THE RADIO Message-ID: HI EVERYONE... ANY OF YOU ANYWHERE IS LUCKY TO HEAR ANY SONG OF DT ON THE RADIO...HERE IN LA, CALIFORNIA THEY DONT EVEN MENTION DT ON THE RADIO...LA RADIO SUCKS....I WOULD HAVE A HEART ATTACK IF I HEARD DT EVEN MENTIONED ON THE RADIO.... JAM ON FELLOW JAMMERS ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 19:47:45 -0400 From: Pat Sullivan To: email_address_removed Subject: re: History of the (DT) future, part I Message-ID: [incredibly funny DTC snipped, for fear of laughing myself into a stupor. Again.] >Months later, a genuine spacecraft from another world will show up. The >aliens' first words on arrival: "Who is this Dream Theater we hear so much >about?" This post RIGHT here is a perfect example of why you put up with all the flames and NDTC posts and all the other crap. Bravo. This should be put in the archives right alongside Ytse and Jam. On a related note, I'd like to say something to the newly-departed Mr. Ptacek, and anyone who is considering following him: Don't. (Or in Chris' case, Undo:)) I read Chris' unsub post and it dawned on me that in his case, he's cutting himself off from the best source of DT info around, flames or no flames. No one has to unsubscribe if the heat gets to hot, you just have to STOP POSTING. Don't make the same mistake. Lurk if you have to, but if you leave, you're only hurting yourself. The list will go on screwing itself up just fine without you. :) There have been times when I've wanted to leave too (I've been here since about #750), but in the end, I always end up staying - usually because a post like the one I responded to above ends up convincing me to stay. I'll second (or third) the person who said this list is like a family. Frankly, I have fights with my sister that make the flame wars on here look like Disney movies, but I love her just the same. It's the same with the list. I love you guys - now give me the goddamn Bud Light. Oh...and just to skew the obscenity counters: FUCKFUCK! ________Pat Sullivan__________________________________ E-mail: email_address_removed WWW: http://www.ici.net/cust_pages/psull/psull.html IRC: DDictator NP: Deliverance - "If You Will" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 21:16:28 -0400 From: Adam To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2578 Message-ID: Matt wrote: >how much rap have you actually listened to?!?! i mean, i'm not a big fan >of rap, but at least i give it a serious, open listen if i *do* hear it. >if you are willing to categorize all rap as mindless, low IQ music, then >you are just ignorant. See my previous post on the subject of my hypocracy and ignorance. I'm sick of people taking what I thought would be amusing to everyone as some sort of thesis on the relative value (or lack thereof) of rap. >if you aren't willing to take the time to learn something about a particular >form of music, just keep your fucking mouth shut about it and don't pretend >like you know the first thing about what you're talking about, because you >literally have no clue. if it all sounds the same to you, then it's a sure >sign you haven't taken the time to *seriously* learn about it. I wasn't the person who stated that it all sounds the same, but please, what's this "keep your fucking mouth shut" and "aren't willing to take the time to learn something..." I assume you know this guy personally and know for a fact he "doesn't have a clue" about rap. Otherwise, you're overstepping your bounds in quite a big way. Until you know for a fact about the people you're whining about, please refrain from flaming them. Jesus... Adam ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 2580 **************************