YTSEJAM Digest 2426 Today's Topics: 1) Re: Fates and Conception tour? by Anton Max 2) Re: MORE fractions!!! by "NEVANS.US.ORACLE.COM" 3) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2425 by "James Garrett" 4) Specific Reasons for 4/4 then 5/4 by "NEVANS.US.ORACLE.COM" 5) Rush tribute Album by Federico Carbonell 6) Canadian & DSS jammers by Jackie Puppet 7) the derek factor by email_address_removed 8) DS factor :) by "Rip, Cow Virtuoso" 9) Re: the derek factor by Anton Max 10) Re: Isn't controvery fun??? especially when there's NDTC??? by email_address_removed (Scott Cook) 11) QR on Hardradio by Ivan Galesic 12) JP and DS clinic by Aaron Happe 13) Re: fractions and stuff by "KorgX3" 14) Re: fractions and stuff by Rick Audet 15) What the World Has Come To (No DT Content) by Soul Madness 16) Re: fractions and stuff by "KorgX3" 17) time sigs? by "Rip, Cow Virtuoso" 18) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2425 Neil's Comments by email_address_removed 19) Derek's opinions by "Dale R. Newberry" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 18:47:43 -0500 (EST) From: Anton Max To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Fates and Conception tour? Message-ID: So who's playing second guitar and keys on the tour? -maximilian Anton Max MadMax+@cmu.edu http://thunderdome.pc.cs.cmu.edu/aepithex.html ------------------------------ Date: 04 Apr 97 15:53:12 -0800 From: "NEVANS.US.ORACLE.COM" To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: MORE fractions!!! Message-ID: >>If you're talking about the intro to Voices, then what you stated here is incorrect. NO, I am talking about the verse to "Surrounded." I was the original person who mentioned the song, and I mentioned that I loved the 5/4 aspect of it. That's what started this ridiculous debate. You can count a song however you like, so long as the math works out. Let's all remember that written notation is an *approximation* of the music, an *attempt* to formalize it and render it in a permanent form that many others can comprehend. I totally agree with your assessment of "Voices," although it should be added that you *could* (although it would be strange) group every two measures of 9/8 together and write it as 4/4 then 5/4. My comments concerning Portnoy's phrasing should be applied to the verse of "Surrounded." cheers, -Neil. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 16:08:08 -0700 From: "James Garrett" To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2425 Message-ID: email_address_removed on 04/04/97 03:21:17 PM Please respond to email_address_removed To: email_address_removed cc: (bcc: James Garrett/TEKELEC) Subject: RE: Rush tour >I think James G wrote: >>Also, the radio promo said that they >>are actually going to play all of 2112! I'd pay nine bucks just to here >that. >ARe you refering to the whole song or the whole album? If it is the whole song then it >is nothing new since they did 2112 on the first leg. I didn't get a chance to see the first leg, but the last time I saw them, they only did "Overture" and "Temples of Syrinx." AND >I thought they were playing irvine Meadows? >-The Doc Sorry, I'm not familiar with the venues down here yet. It's the one in Irvine. BTW, is there anything to listen to besides KLOS down here? James G. ------------------------------ Date: 04 Apr 97 16:11:47 -0800 From: "NEVANS.US.ORACLE.COM" To: email_address_removed Subject: Specific Reasons for 4/4 then 5/4 Message-ID: >>Voices, and Surrounded flow much more counted in 9's rather than 5's and 4's. I strongly disagree (concerning "Surrounded"). I just listened again. Count it in 9/8 and notice the strange upbeat that starts every 2nd "measure." There is no sense of beginning a new measure at that point in either the rhythm or the melody. It really does feel, rhythmically, like a measure of 4/4 followed by an extended measure, one of 5/4. OK, here goes - I will get ultra-specific to make this point. All who still claim "Surrounded" flows better in 9/8 please try this out. Bear in mind that I care nothing for how it looks written on paper - yes, it is annoying to see a new time signature at the beginning of every measure. Assuming that the drums are the best determinant of the rhythm and meter, listen to the verse beginning at exactly 2:02 ("Dreams are shaking"). Listen to the first four beats there (drums!), what I hear as a measure of 4/4 time. Then hear the drums change during the next 5 beats, what I hear as a measure of 5/4 time. Now notice that at 2:15 the meter switches to straight 4/4 time (I think we can all agree on this). Listen to the drums. Every measure is played EXACTLY like the first four beats at 2:02, leading to the conclusion that Mike is treating the first four beats at 2:02 precisely like the measures of 4/4 time at 2:15. I think this is a *strong* argument. If you STILL don't believe me, listen to the guitar at 2:02! The first 8 eighth notes sound like one "phrase". This completes a 4/4 feel. The 9th eighth note is *accented*. This feels like a *downbeat*, hence the start of a new measure of 5/4. You wouldn't normally *accent* the 9th beat in a measure of 9/8. Folks, count it however you want but please don't tell me I'm wrong by saying I hear a 4/4 then 5/4 rhythm here. cheers, -Neil. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 19:28:17 -0500 From: Federico Carbonell To: email_address_removed Subject: Rush tribute Album Message-ID: Anyone knows where I can get the Rush Tribute Album? Federico Carbonell email_address_removed email_address_removed ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 16:35:01 -0800 (PST) From: Jackie Puppet To: email_address_removed Subject: Canadian & DSS jammers Message-ID: This weekend on Much is all 80's videos. I don't know if that means all new wave, but I'm sure a few of your favorite Cheese Metal Hair bands will be there. Scott *************************************************************************** Kill Kill Kill..... the White Man; Kill him until he is dead. Kill Kill Kill the White Man. Thank you. Howard Stern as Mamalookaboobooday Detroit's first black traffic reporter *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 19:35:16 -0500 (EST) From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: the derek factor Message-ID: I suppose everyone has done this before but I hate holding my tongue when it gets to Kevin: "and to anyone who's ever said he cant hold a candle to KevMo, blah! he's quite possibly the best asset to the band and the new album, lines in the sand is currently my fave new song and he's the one who partook much of its writing. good show! =) ~Rip" I have always wondered why the blind devotion to a guy who has done some good work with DT, but come on no albums, no long term fixture, not much of anything. The guy is really though, a great asset from that standpoint, but the he just doesn't click like Kevin. Where is my opinion coming from? Not really the works from I&W or Awake but the jams they did live, the fooling around at soundchecks. The four original members click better then this four. Kevin's sound fits better with JP and MP, he seperates better, his piano is far better, and the lyrics... well look at everyone sig. on this mailing list. Just my opinion of course from one of the few Kev backers left in the crowd. Take the time. -Eric ps for those desiring to attack me with the "get over it and move on" sentiment, find another intelligent response ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 18:57:14 -0600 From: "Rip, Cow Virtuoso" To: Heavy Metal Computer Nerds Subject: DS factor :) Message-ID: > >I have always wondered why the blind devotion to a guy who has done some good >work with DT, but come on no albums, no long term fixture, not much of >anything. The guy is really though, a great asset from that standpoint, but >the he just doesn't click like Kevin. Where is my opinion coming from? Not >really the works from I&W or Awake but the jams they did live, the fooling >around at soundchecks. The four original members click better then this >four. Kevin's sound fits better with JP and MP, he seperates better, his >piano is far better, and the lyrics... well look at everyone sig. on this >mailing list. Just my opinion of course from one of the few Kev backers left >in the crowd. Take the time. > >ps for those desiring to attack me with the "get over it and move on" >sentiment, find another intelligent response > not a problem. here's one to start with: kevin had played with the band ten years, derek has played with them around two. Kevin had the chance to grow with the rest of the band, progressing along from pre-maj demos to Awake, derek has just jumped in with them now. Of course he doesnt click and compliment with other guys as much yet, its like friends: you can walk up to your friend you've known since kindergarden, and the whole chain of conversation will be a lot different than someone you've recently met. but as you get to know that person the conversational capacity will broaden, click in, become more "tight" in a friendship sort of way :) so i'm saying, give him a chance to click in. and as for the lyrical aspect, kevin was a great lyricist, but you havent even had a taste of DS's, and if you have, post em! i think the keys on I&W click well, but by the time of awake kevin just didnt have too much drive for the band any more. to conclude, i never attacked kevin, i never said derek was better, nor worse. i simply stated that he definately does not fall behind him in any way whatsoever and the new direction he's helping the band take is incredible. if you jump on the line to attack every time someone simply compliments derek and mention the word "kevin" in the same sentence, you're going to be doing a lot of blind defending. =) I back kevin fully, i'm anxiously awaiting the new fates warning and chromakey, but why is it assumed if one appreciates DS he must detest kevin, and vice versa? ~Rip ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 20:06:49 -0500 (EST) From: Anton Max To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: the derek factor Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Apr 1997 email_address_removed wrote: > I suppose everyone has done this before but I hate holding my tongue when it > gets to Kevin: > > "and to anyone who's ever > said he cant hold a candle to KevMo, blah! he's quite possibly the best > asset to the band and the new album, lines in the sand is currently my fave > new song and he's the one who partook much of its writing. good show! =) > ~Rip" > > I have always wondered why the blind devotion to a guy who has done some good > work with DT, but come on no albums, no long term fixture, not much of > anything. The guy is really though, a great asset from that standpoint, but > the he just doesn't click like Kevin. Where is my opinion coming from? Not > really the works from I&W or Awake but the jams they did live, the fooling > around at soundchecks. The four original members click better then this > four. Kevin's sound fits better with JP and MP, he seperates better, his > piano is far better, and the lyrics... well look at everyone sig. on this > mailing list. Just my opinion of course from one of the few Kev backers left > in the crowd. Take the time. > Speaking as a fanatical Kevin fan, I see your point, especially about separating better. Derek tends to supplement the guitars with his organ, whereas Kevin used to complement them. But I think this is a change in the style of the band, not necessarily due to Derek...it was already underway on Awake. Derek has really impressed me at some points, though. His solo towards the end of ACOS really rips, and I quite enjoyed his piano and organ solo on the japanese PPV concert. I also thought he did pretty well at the Providence show. But there's a certain magic to Images and Words that I really missed. Until I heard the new Fates, that is. All in all, though, I'm glad Kevin left DT. Derek is more than adequate, and Kevin's solo stuff is awesome. -maximilian Anton Max MadMax+@cmu.edu http://thunderdome.pc.cs.cmu.edu/aepithex.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 20:11:58 EST From: email_address_removed (Scott Cook) To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Isn't controvery fun??? especially when there's NDTC??? Message-ID: ******************************************************************************************* In the year 2000, Aunt Jemima and Mrs. Butterworth will tarnish their image by admitting that they've "Tasted each others' syrup." Conan O'Brien April 1, 1997. ******************************************************************************************* On Fri, 4 Apr 1997 15:19:26 -0800 (PST) Randall Braun writes: >Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Most of us are here >because we enjoy DT!! And if I want your opinion I'll give it to you! I'M KIDDING! Seriously though. Most people wouldn't begrudge you having an opinion, it was more the personal nature of your opinion and saying that Gary was somehow a better person because his lyrics are more thought provoking. Sure music is an art form and I enjoy meaningful lyrics, but on the other hand It's only Rock and Roll (but I like it). Scott ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 21:06:19 -0500 (EST) From: Ivan Galesic To: email_address_removed Subject: QR on Hardradio Message-ID: Hi i'm new to the jam and can't wait to read it every day. I just thought I would mention that there is an interview with Chris DeGarmo (as well as others band interviews) on Hardradio. It also has album release dates and news on a lot of bands. If you have RealAudio 3 you can tune in and listen to comercial free radio. Check it out at www.hardradio.com Ivan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 20:16:26 -0600 From: Aaron Happe To: email_address_removed Subject: JP and DS clinic Message-ID: Well I am sure that you have heard this from all the other St. Louis jammers but... THE JP and DS clinic rocked! I totally dig the new songs, and that kewl little song he wrote when his daughter was sleeping. :-) The coolest thing was I will pay 30 bux for a concert and go see JP and DS for FREE!! and have just as good if not BETTER time. I HAVE to see DT in concert. And yes as Corey said that FREAK bass dude was a nerd :-) He would not shup up, and I was dying laughing at the fucker. -Aaron Happe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 19:20:40 +0000 From: "KorgX3" To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: fractions and stuff Message-ID: > glen wrote: > >>It IS 9/8!!!!!!!!!!! Count the eighth notes!!!!!!!! 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9,1 = > 2 3 > 4 5 6 7 8 9.... > It can't be 4/4 and 5/4 > Who actually gives a damn what key sig it's in? OK, to settle it, I popped open my I&W guitar tab book and it says >9/8<. OK? Nuff said. If you wanna argue it, write a letter to John P. He edited the book for crimney's sake. Well, I really have nothing else to say, so... Enjoy the sig. :) "And lo cameth down from the mountain the wombat gaveth the blessing of life unto Australia. Thus spaketh he 'dweefle' and it was good. O, how the divine blessing of his teaching scoureth the land and yea, harken unto he the herald of the Divine Being 'dweefle' and harken unto thyself the message of the wombat, and ye shall gain everlasting peace." ---From the teachings of KorgX3 http://www.cyberhighway.net/~ibanez email_address_removed ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 21:56:31 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Audet To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: fractions and stuff Message-ID: Chuck wrote, >OK, to settle it, I popped open my I&W guitar tab book and it says >>9/8<. OK? Nuff said. If you wanna argue it, write a letter to John >P. He edited the book for crimney's sake. Yeah, but he went to Berklee for a whole year. -Rick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 97 22:03 EST From: Soul Madness To: email_address_removed Subject: What the World Has Come To (No DT Content) Message-ID: At the end of this Mindfunk song I was listening to and reading the lyrics for, I found something humorous that seemed like a corporate desicion. The song is called Innocense off of their first album (an awesome non-prog album).. The lyrics for Innocense ..and then in small letters...hey bonechild folx: let it be known that we freaks from mind funkin no way condone suicide so all you with an overabundance of pills and razor blades, keep em locked up for there ain't no greater gift than life itself so liveth, do not taketh away. Peace y'all. Funny- most kids should know not to kill themselves over a fricking song. Don email_address_removed email_address_removed (for people sending pics, sound files, etc.) Warrior Soul Homepage (now featuring a Whats New section, a review with more to come, liner notes, lyrics, and info on rare CD singles) http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/5784/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 20:50:45 +0000 From: "KorgX3" To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: fractions and stuff Message-ID: > >OK, to settle it, I popped open my I&W guitar tab book and it says > >>9/8<. OK? Nuff said. If you wanna argue it, write a letter to John > >P. He edited the book for crimney's sake. > > Yeah, but he went to Berklee for a whole year. LOL! Oh, well, you win some, you lose some. :) I don't understand the whole reasoning behind the arguement anyway. I never pay attention to key sigs. In my world, all key sigs are 4/4 only some 4/4's are longer than others and some are shorter. Some are off-beat, but most are right on. 9 notes in a bar? It's just an extended 4/4 where the guitarist was trying to do something wacky. He's just shortenening all the eighth notes to compensate squeezing in one extra note. It's still 4/4. :) (You can evidently tell I'm a Berklee music major now, eh?) "And lo cameth down from the mountain the wombat gaveth the blessing of life unto Australia. Thus spaketh he 'dweefle' and it was good. O, how the divine blessing of his teaching scoureth the land and yea, harken unto he the herald of the Divine Being 'dweefle' and harken unto thyself the message of the wombat, and ye shall gain everlasting peace." ---From the teachings of KorgX3 http://www.cyberhighway.net/~ibanez email_address_removed ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 22:11:10 -0600 From: "Rip, Cow Virtuoso" To: Heavy Metal Computer Nerds Subject: time sigs? Message-ID: well, if i DO know one thing, its that acos is only one measure long. yep. its in 463241631290748903124/53rds of course ~Rip ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 23:15:01 -0500 (EST) From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2425 Neil's Comments Message-ID: Okay man!!!!!!!! After posting I thought to myself" After all those music theory classes and all those jazz/fusion gigs I played in during college and all the mixed meter covering I do of DT ; it doesn't really matter how you count it as long as we all end up at the same place at the same time!!!!!!! So.........You are right and I was wrong. I hate admiting that. After all I am only a Mike Portnoy wannabe trying to develop my onw style..... "Find all you need in your mind,if you take the time" TTT. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 22:49:48 +0000 From: "Dale R. Newberry" To: email_address_removed Subject: Derek's opinions Message-ID: Yeah, I thought Derek showed real class when stating his opinions, not insulting anyone, but being frank about his opinions on stuff. And I kind of got the impression that he really digs a lot of prog (mentioned King Crimson, ELP, etc.). I think he takes a pretty straightforward approach to playing, y'know, taking a more in your face, ballsy approach, as opposed to being more ethereal. Back to his opinions, about the closest he came to trashing (and I use thise term in a playful manner :) anyone was when someone asked about what kind of person Alice Cooper is. He (DS) replied by saying AC is a very sweet person. Very friendly. Then he said "Now ask me about Gene Simmons :)." Got a good chuckle :). Just got back from seeing Billy Sheehan do a clinic. Man, that guy smokes. I think I actually learned something I can apply to my practice sessions, too. He seemed to have a real grasp on practicing, as opposed to merely playing songs. I really like how he said he's totally into Doug Pinnick, and how he was like, "well, they're on Atlantic." Again, a very cool person. Very appreciative of fans. Very into music from the heart. He even said he digs The Ramones, Republica, KX, as long as its from the heart and not over-contrived. I also like how he made it a point that what works for one person, may not necessarily work for another. Tomorrow, Al DiMeola. Dale R. Newberry ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 2426 **************************