YTSEJAM Digest 2411 Today's Topics: 1) true fans by CLARK ABEL 2) Re: Angra, Bombay Vindaloo by The Digital Man 3) Re: Where can I find new Fates? by Anton Max 4) Re: Us and Them (no, not the PF song) by email_address_removed 5) Saigon Kick Information by Andrew Forcier 6) YTSEJAM digest 2409 by Neil Elliott 7) Re: Angra, Bombay Vindaloo by Rick Audet 8) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2409 by rickbond 9) Re: Us and Them (no, not the PF song) by Rick Audet 10) Record producer lectures at U.Miami by Rick Audet 11) Viper, Elegy, etc... by "Robin L. Campbell" 12) by email_address_removed (Jeffrey Falk) 13) German Queen Mailing List by Scott Cook 14) Makers of quality footware no more by Rick Audet 15) Reply to Jam 2410 Biology NDTC by Randall Braun 16) Right-on Skadz by "Kasper, Robert" 17) Skid Row Relapse by email_address_removed (Mark Lampert) 18) Re: Dumb Americans? by Ryanne 19) TO CARLO D'ANGELO, what is the SS number? by Conrad Chi ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 12:10:30 -0400 (EDT) From: CLARK ABEL To: email_address_removed Subject: true fans Message-ID: now... can't expect them to bang their heads forever." I'm > now... can't expect them to bang their heads forever." I'm >sorry, but I consider a person who's a true fan to be with the band and >like them and support them no matter what musical change they may make. >Not someone who jumps off the wagon just because they "changed their >sound" went "grunge" or another popular term "commercialized". You >should take the good with the band and except it for what it is, not >degrade it for what you think it should have been. Another question, This mentality makes no sense to me at all. *I'm* paying money for a product the band is selling me. I don't owe them a damn thing. If anyone owes anyone anything, the band owes its fans a little allegiance. I'm not suggesting that a group of musicians should make any music other than the music they want to on account of their fans. But here's a thought I haven't seen anyone bring up before: Does it seem like maybe it's a little dishonest for a band to completely change it's sound and keep the same name? I'll try to give an example. I've never really even heard any QR, so let's pretend that DT's new album is mostly reggae. Do I think that they owe it to their fans to continue to write progressive rock if what's really in their hearts now is reggae? Absolutely not. They should make whatever music they want to. However, I DO think that it would be dishonest to their fans tp to sell this music as Dream Theater. This is just a name, but it clearly carries a certain implication with it as far as the style of music. Now let's see if I can remember what my point was. This is clearly an extreme example which would probably (hopefully?) never happen. But let's say it did. Would you (James D Carey) tell me that I should embrace this new reggae album and learn to love it simply because it's Dream Theater? I don't like reggae. It gives me a headache. Would you still love the album? If they continued to record reggae for the rest of their carreers, would you continue to buy their albums? I wouldn't. I really liked the example of the McDonald's soy burger that was posted a couple days ago. I realize that burgers are not an art form (to most people) and that music is, but the fact is that in the end what happens between me and DT when I buy their album is a business transaction. Someone put a price on that piece of art. When you walk into McDonald's and say the burger tastes like shit because they changed it, they don't say "Fuck you, that's the way we make them now" because you won't come back. Mcdonald's has every right to change their burger, but if they start serving shit on a bun, I'm not going to keep eating there just because I like what they used to serve. My point is, I suspect that if DT released that reggae album, you would say you love it, and I think that's sad. I say I am a DT fan because they happen to make a lot of music that I love, but I owe them nothing. I respect them for the musicians they are and also for they fact that they seem to have not let their minor fame get the best of them, but I certainly don't claim to love everything they've ever recorded. If they turn out a piece-of-shitalbum, I'm not going to "take the good with the bad and except it for what it is". I'm sure that there are people who would agree with your definition of "a true fan", but you know what? I have no interest in being a "true fan"; I have a life of my own to lead which is keeping me way to busy to put someone else on a pedestal and worship everything they do just because I happen to admire their musical talents. -Clark It would seem, however, that I do have time to write an entire essay on something that probably no one cares about. Sorry this was so long. :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 12:12:54 -0500 (EST) From: The Digital Man To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Angra, Bombay Vindaloo Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Apr 1997, Rick Audet wrote: > 2. Does anyone know if DT played Bombay Vindaloo at any time other than the > LatM show? Seems odd that among all the boots out there with DT jams, this > tune appears on none of them except this official release. My guess is no. I have a tape of the next show they did after that Marquee show, which was in Providence, I think. They do a similar, but different, instrumental at that show. If I had to form a theory, it would be that they just sort of jammed something every night on that leg, and happened to include that one on LatM, meaning it needed a title. I could be wrong, of course. That's just my own little pet theory. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ Secretary & Webmaster email_address_removed "@'/ ,. \`@" UVM Comp Sci Student Assn email_address_removed /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.emba.uvm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" - Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Maintainer of the Official Dream Theater Frequently Asked Questions List http://www.emba.uvm.edu/~cmerlo/dtfaq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 12:11:12 -0500 (EST) From: Anton Max To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Where can I find new Fates? Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Apr 1997, Anthony LaSorsa wrote: > I understand that the new album won't be out till April, but I'm curious as > to what label it will be put out on. I know they left Metal Blade.... > Did they go with Magna Carta? > Tony > Actually, I'm fairly sure they're still on Metal Blade. MB has a web page for them still, and it's up to date with the new album. -maximilian Anton Max MadMax+@cmu.edu http://thunderdome.pc.cs.cmu.edu/aepithex.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 12:05:32 -0500 From: email_address_removed To: " - (052)ytsejam (a) ax.com" Subject: Re: Us and Them (no, not the PF song) Message-ID: <0010200000160089000002L092*@MHS> > Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 12:22:58 -0500 > From: Eric Rodger > To: email_address_removed > Subject: Re: Americans? (NDTC) > Message-ID: > > As an American, I agree with much of this post, and like you, I was > confused that an American actually posted that the U.S. educational system > is the best, when we have so many illiterate and unemployed people here. > However, you simply can't argue the fact that the U.S. has made the most > advancement in our short 200+ years of existence. In the past century > alone, the U.S. discovered flight, crossed the Atlantic by air, put a man > on the moon, and sustained life in space for 6+ months. These are the > greatest advancements since the invention of the wheel. Plus, we have > Dream Theater. > > KAI > Aaaahhhh! I can't stop myself from responding to this one. I know it's NDTC. I know it doesn't belong on the jam. My left arm just isn't strong enough to keep my right hand off the keyboard. The American PUBLIC education system is pathetic. When I finished with public schools, I was amazed that I could spell my name. However, in PRIVATE education we're not too bad. At the University level we're fairly even, and once you hit Graduate School... Last I saw there were more people from other countries enrolled in graduate programs in the US than people from the US. And just to blast a few holes in your technology argument... In the high profile space exploration arena: 1) We never would have made it without Werner von Braun, inventor of the V-2. 2) The Russians had the first satellite (Sputnik) 3) The Russians had Yuri Gagarin (sp?) 4) The Russians have the most powerful launch vehicle ever built, Energia. 5) Mir is still in orbit setting micro-gravity duration records. 6) Skylab crashed into Australia over 10 years ago. 7) The ESA has the most reliable launch system in the world. 8) The Space Shuttle is pretty damn cool, but VERY expensive to launch. The US is the Microsoft of the world. We steal everyone else's ideas and people and claim that they were ours from the beginning. For some strange reason, the whole world has been buying it for over 200 years. "Briiiaaaaan!!" "Kiiirrrrrrk!!" - Joe, Wings - Khan, Wrath of Khan email_address_removed email_address_removed Write me. If you dare! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 12:33:03 -0800 From: Andrew Forcier To: email_address_removed Cc: email_address_removed Subject: Saigon Kick Information Message-ID: Hello! My thanks in advance to the list moderators for allowing me to post this. As there is not one currently in existence, and the fan base is fairly small (to my knowledge), are there any folks interested in helping me create or simply joining a SAIGON KICK MAILING LIST. I would only maintain it for the transmission of any important info from management and the band, much like the Dream Theater Voices list is (supposedly) run. If you are interested mail me at: email_address_removed. Just put a subject of "SK" and a message saying your level of interest, i.e. help to create, just joining, etc. and your full name. Keep in mind the purpose would be information distribution, not free-writing for the musically omniscient. Also, if you know of others that would be interested, feel free to forward this note to them or other band mailing lists (remember not to forward the whole digest). Please let me know if you do so what lists you've sent it to. Please do not place this on any government or business related distribution lists. The project may have to be cancelled if this is done. When I get enough names, I will contact the band's management to demonstrate that there is some interest, no matter how insignificant. I say this to reinforce the idea that this has, right now, only a possibility of coming to fruition. As the number of names grows, maybe we'll get something more formal with the band and expand the list's parameters. Thank you again to the list moderators for letting me post this. Andrew Forcier email_address_removed ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 12:40:27 -0500 From: Neil Elliott To: "INTERNET:email_address_removed" Subject: YTSEJAM digest 2409 Message-ID: >today, i heard about some rumours, that Dream Theater played a gig with Tony Braxton. Can >anyone say me something about it. No you 'Fool', you got it mixed up. Toni Braxton played a gig with DT. As the new member in the band it was felt necessary to make her feel comfortable with the new material before recording the new album!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Avril Le Fou ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 12:41:47 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Audet To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Angra, Bombay Vindaloo Message-ID: At 09:32 AM 4/1/97 -0800, you wrote: >On Tue, 1 Apr 1997, Rick Audet wrote: > >> 2. Does anyone know if DT played Bombay Vindaloo at any time other than the >> LatM show? Seems odd that among all the boots out there with DT jams, this >> tune appears on none of them except this official release. > >My guess is no. I have a tape of the next show they did after that >Marquee show, which was in Providence, I think. They do a similar, but >different, instrumental at that show. If I had to form a theory, it would >be that they just sort of jammed something every night on that leg, and >happened to include that one on LatM, meaning it needed a title. I could >be wrong, of course. That's just my own little pet theory. Last show of Second Leg: 04/23/93 London, England Marquee First show of Third Leg: 05/15/93 Warwick, RI Rocky Point Park (Galactic Cowboys) Providence...Warwick...close enough, right? Your theory makes sense to me. Now you must ask yourself, would DT approve of you owning that tape? j/k :) -Rick Anxiously awaits the arrival of PT. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 12:44:02 -0500 From: rickbond To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2409 Message-ID: > From: Cygnus > Subject: DT, Michael Sweet, HitNF > > Are there any other fans of Stryper/Michael Sweet out there? I got > Michael Sweet's 2nd album Real. It is as mellow as the first solo album. > I love it though. IMHO Michael Sweet has one of the most emotive voices. > That's why I'm such a fan of his. I just like singers in the high range > for some reason - like Mike Majitevic of Steelheart - now he's hit notes > higher than any other man I've heard! YES!!!! Stryper! Steelheart's cool too. Got both their albums. I've recently gotten onto a Stryper kick. Love 'em. I wish they'd get back together. I've heard Micahel's new albums and wasn't too impressed. I hear that Robert is in a new band too. A Christian Thrash band called "King James". Have yet to hear it though. I miss Stryper. They're awesome. Take Care Rick Bond ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 12:46:50 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Audet To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Us and Them (no, not the PF song) Message-ID: At 09:33 AM 4/1/97 -0800, you wrote: >Aaaahhhh! I can't stop myself from responding to this one. I know it's NDTC. >I know it doesn't belong on the jam. My left arm just isn't strong enough to >keep my right hand off the keyboard. That's too bad, Mr. Kirk. Victim #1: Bzzzzzzzzzzt. UNSUBSCRIBE YTSEJAM BRIAN KIRK NEXT?! -Rick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 13:25:48 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Audet To: email_address_removed Subject: Record producer lectures at U.Miami Message-ID: People in the South Florida area might find this of interest. You can still go even if you are not a member of the Audio Engineering Society. I used to be the Chairman of the U. Miami section, and we never checked ID. I'm sure they don't check nowadays either. Anyway... ---------------------------------------------- On Wednesday, April 2 at 7:15 PM in Volpe 103, the Miami Chapter of AES will be presenting Tom Morris, of Morrisound. Mr. Morris has produced such artists as Toxik, Whiplash Ludichrist, Crimson Glory, Coroner and Kreator. As an engineer, Tom has enjoyed working on a wide variety of musical styles including the Dixie Dregs, Steve Morse Band, Savatage, Saigon Kick, Chuck Owen and the Jazz Surge, Jeff Berlin and many more. In 1995, Morris was hired to engineer and produce the debut album for 7 Mary 3, which became his first Gold and Platinum recording. Morris recently finished producing the second 7 Mary 3 album for Atlantic Records which has a May release date. We hope you'll join us for this meeting. (FREE FOOD to follow!). If you have any questions, I can be contacted at: email_address_removed ALEXIS KURTZ Chairwoman AES Miami Chapter email_address_removed ---------------------------------------------- -Rick Audet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 12:42:18 -0600 From: "Robin L. Campbell" To: email_address_removed Subject: Viper, Elegy, etc... Message-ID: Hey Gang, Does anyone have any info they could tell me about ELEGY? I heard a dexcription of this band somewhere and it sounded very interesting. Is there possibly a site somwhere with some audio clips, etc.? Any insights appreciated. Also, did I read somewhere correctly that VIPER is the previous name of ANGRA? If so, how is the VIPER stuff compared to ANGRA? Anyone have any of their albums under that name? Info? Anyone? Thanks. Only a couple weeks til the new Fates!!!! Nuff said about that! Anyone have any info about the new ENCHANT release? I know it has been released in Europe (I think), and I remember hearing something about the US release in summer?? Is there a date set? Thanks a lot gang, but hurry up with the info, cuz I am soon going to join my brothers on the mothership. The comet is calling me home to the Next Level. Hale-Bopp is here and soon you will all be recycled. The garden must be replanted! -rob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 14:03:09 -0500 From: email_address_removed (Jeffrey Falk) To: email_address_removed Message-ID: >I have not seen the Twix comercial but this is my guess. The dialogue "Dr >Davis Dr Davis telephone please .... Dr Blair.........." is probably taken >from some widely available sound effects compilation. (at least this is my >cousins opinion and he's a sound guy!) >I know this because we noticed this same Dialogue ("Dr Davis Dr Davis >telephone please...." and later "Dr Blair Dr Blair..." ) on the track T'n'T >on the album Dr Feelgood by Motley Crue. It is the exact same >voices/dialogue as in Operation Mindcrime - although the dialogue has been >chopped up a little and different other sounds are present over the top. Someone told me that they heard the same thing on a rerun of _The Cosby Show_. >2. Does anyone know if DT played Bombay Vindaloo at any time other than the >LatM show? Seems odd that among all the boots out there with DT jams, this >tune appears on none of them except this official release. According to the unoffical setlist file that's been floating around, they played it before and after the date it was recorded for the album. I think it was played four or five times around April 1993. Jeff Falk Box 3208 700 Commonwealth Avenue Boston, Massachusetts 02215 (617) 352-8639 email_address_removed ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 11:03:33 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cook To: email_address_removed Subject: German Queen Mailing List Message-ID: This came from the Queen list. I know we have German jammers here and some of them may be Queen fans. >Calling all German Fans! > >There is a now a German Queen Mailing List run by Bernd Pscheiden. It's still >very small, but hopefully it'll increase soon. So anyone who speaks German >and is interested is invited to join this list. > More infos from Bernd: e-mail: email_address_removed > website: http://members.aol.com/BerndPsch ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 14:03:20 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Audet To: email_address_removed Subject: Makers of quality footware no more Message-ID: Kids, Those of you who may have been thinking about buying such fun-filled DT boots as Mind Control, Dream Out Loud, or Lords of Sound will have a hard time, because the manufacturer of these discs (Kiss The Stone) has been shut down, apparently from the recent bootleg sting that went down in Florida. They are getting rid of excess stock until the end of April, and their prices are now $12 a disc, but the minimum order is 5 discs. Glad I got mine when I did. :P -Rick Audet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 13:11:37 -0600 From: Randall Braun To: "'email_address_removed'" Subject: Reply to Jam 2410 Biology NDTC Message-ID: Quoth 2410...That fact is... every human being (except down's babies) have 46 chromosomes. That is what makes us human. Reply... Actually even those afflicted with Down's syndrome (21 trisomy being the most common form) have 46 chromosomes, they just have a duplicate bit of genetic material on chromosome 21. Most humans with aberrant genetic forms have 46 chromosomes, its just that genes are scrambled a bit. There are those rare cases of abnormal sex chromosomes XXY, XYY, etc. (see Aliens3). Even these technically have only have 46 chromosomes, just a mixed up sex gene. Jamie Lee Curtis (A Wish called Fonda) is one of those rare individuals who should be male (genetically), but have developed into functionally normal women. -Randall email: email_address_removed **"I'm looking California and feeling Minnesota" from "Outshined" by Soundgarden** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 14:58:19 -0500 From: "Kasper, Robert" To: "'Ytsejam'" Subject: Right-on Skadz Message-ID: Way to put your foot down, Skadz! On another note, HitNF is really growing on me. "Hero" reminds me alot of older David Bowie - anyone else catch this from listening? Rob "Everything is True. Even false things are True." - Malaclypse the Younger, O.P. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 13:49:12 -0600 From: email_address_removed (Mark Lampert) To: Subject: Skid Row Relapse Message-ID: Ahoy, Here's one I methinks you will all enjoy. Walking out to my car from school today, i saw a tape on the ground and picked it up.... Skid Row self-title! Yow! So i picked out the grass from inside the casing, blew out the dirt, rewound some of the tape back into its spOOL, and popped it in... you know, some of the songs on this tape are still pretty cool... it's always strange how you will remember lyrics after so long... some of the solos are pretty good too.... I still have this tape with my def leopards, poisons, whitesnake's, etc somewhere in my closet with all my old tapes. I'll have to bust some more of these out sometime.... thought I'd share this on the jam... figured someone else has had the same experience.... or is missing their Skid Row tape? hehehe In that case, I don't know anything about it.... nope. · • Colonel Mustard • · ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 15:16:42 -0500 (EST) From: Ryanne To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Dumb Americans? Message-ID: Yah, I'm a few jams behind, but I *had* to comment on this. >From: Jeremy Kube >Subject: Dumb Americans? >Most Americans' education levels far surpass the education levels of Foreign >countries. This is due to our countries dedication to acceptable education. > I know of 2 Japanese people who came to the US to be educated >because our University system is so wonderful. Ummm, no. As far as I know, the Foreign education system far surpasses that of North America. And *that* is why so many people here go overseas to study. And that's also why most overseas students are finished school long before someone from North America finishes school. I personally knew a guy at the beginning of highschool, who came to Canada from Europe, is the same age I am (at the time, I was 13 and in grade 9), yet I was stuck in grade nine courses, and he was bumped up to taking grade 11 courses. Right now, I'm still in highschool taking grade 12 and OAC (grade 13) courses, and that dude is in university already. As well, I've got relatives in Europe who come visit each year, one of them is my age, and she's doing work that she received in highschool that would be equivalent to a second year university course here. So your statement that "most american's education levels far surpass the education levels of Foreign countries", in my personal experience meeting students my age FROM foreign countries, is WRONG. Next time, please do your homework before spewing nonsense like that. Yeah yeah yeah, I know, this has absolutely no DT content. So sue me. :) Here, I'll stick something in here related to music (even if it's not DT), the new QR is growing on me every day. I just about returned it the day I bought it, however now I'm glad I didn't. I happen to be really enjoying it now, it was just a matter of giving it more than a few listens. Tool sure said it well, didn't they? "sure could use a vacation from this bullshit, three ring circus siiiiiiiiiideshooooooooow." Ryanne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 12:32:35 -0800 (PST) From: Conrad Chi To: email_address_removed Subject: TO CARLO D'ANGELO, what is the SS number? Message-ID: Sorry to bug the jam about this, but Carlo, do you have a new 'Sentinel Steel' phone number or something? The one I have doesn't work anymore. I read that you just talked to him so.... In case any US jammers are looking for a magazine to read about power/prog metal bands, 'Sentinel Steel' is an awesome zine which is well done for $4 or $5. It has a bunch of articles/reviews etc. I can give more info. if you want lauters Conrad ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 2411 **************************