YTSEJAM Digest 2382 Today's Topics: 1) Maiden, Helloween, & Anathema by email_address_removed 2) Re: prog music quiz (kinda long) by email_address_removed 3) Prog vs. sympho by Peter Geerts 4) King Diamond.... by "Carlo D'Angelo" 5) Re: _what_ is progressive rock? by Carlos Alfaro 6) The fix boot controversy. by Jeremy Kube 7) Prog quiz by Steve Zebrowski 8) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2381 by email_address_removed (Jeff Keifling) 9) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2381 by email_address_removed (Jeff Keifling) 10) Indoor beach party by Brian Jones 11) One hell of a spring break by The Digital Man 12) a couple thingz by email_address_removed 13) Re: _what_ is progressive rock? by Syrinx 14) Interesting commentary by Michael Kizer ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 15:29:58 -0500 (EST) From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Maiden, Helloween, & Anathema Message-ID: Hi Gang - I want to clarify some issues regarding my recent Maiden post. I'm not saying that I dislike Blaze their vocalist - I, also, really enjoy the X-Factor album. Maiden have always been one of my top bands! (It used to be Metallica #1, Maiden #2... that is, until I heard DT!!! %-) ) I think Blaze is a very good vocalist, even if he isn't as operatic as Bruce was. I really love every Maiden album... but, I must admit I am disappointed that the band chose Blaze over Michael Kiske, whom they apparently auditioned. As much as I like Blaze, I perfer Kiske's voice any day. My griping was more about what could have been, not in any way ragging on the current status of Maiden which, judging by their latest album, is still alive and well! And yes, I do very much enjoy Helloween's "Chameleon". (I think I made a fellow jammer bust a nut by mentioning this album in my previous post!) I think about half the album really doesn't do a whole lot for me, but the other half IMHO is some of the best Helloween EVER (i.e. First Time, Giants, I Believe, etc.). Great stuff... I still can't get used to Andi Deris, though. Just doesn't do much for me, ya know? BTW, does anyone know the circumstances regarding Kiske's departure? Was he booted or was it voluntary? Finally, I am currently listening to the latest from Anathema: "Eternity". All I can say is... WOW!!! Their music is very hard to describe... kinda proggy, very heavy, very emotional. They make great use of keys in almost every song. They even do a great cover of Pink Floyd's "Hope" (not that big of a Floyd fan, so I haven't heard the original... but this sure sounds cool!) . I highly recommend this album at all costs. If there are any jammers who can offer a better review of the disc, I'd be interested in seeing it. I suck at describing music... I just know if I like it or don't. And I definitely LOVE this one. That's all for now, duderz. Buh-Bye! - Matt T. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 13:29:34 -0700 From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: prog music quiz (kinda long) Message-ID: Regarding the messages of Jazzmin Belle Sommers ; This is a very good question you know. Of the following groups, explain why/not each should be listed as progressive music. 1. Camel = This band absolutely should be called a progressive rock band but in the soft side. Camel is very good very complex for their early works, such as, Mirage, The snow goose (very great concept album), Moonmadness, Rain dances, Nude.....but I can see your house from here is a weak album IMHO. Nowadays, Camel does not too complex, but their music is beautiful, for example, a concept album of "Harbour of tears", I love this album even though it lacks of complex sound. And the playing of Andy Latimer should be said that it's pure, more emotion for prog guitar sound. I saw Camel this tour on March 9 in SF, very very impressive show. 2. Tangerine Dream (specify year and members) = for TD, I think they sound progressive only their early stuff like Alpha Centuri......till Cyclone, but not for the soudtrack albums even thought "Tyger" is beautiful. I might add TD to soft ambient and electronic rock band for these days, but not that kind of ambient like Nurse With Wound or Current 93. TD put out a bunch o albums these days, can't have all of them. 3. Pink Floyd (specify line-up and era) = Wow, you mentioned my fav band, I'm doing my thesis project in the Pink Floyd topic, it's 3D animation project on SGI. For PF, I will devide to 4 eras, - First era, psychedelic rock (the piper..., saucerful of secrets, more , ummagumma). This is real psychedelic in Barrett era. They first album is a combination of blues rock with some psychedelic sound. - Second era, space rock or ambient (atom heart mother, Meddle, Obscured by clouds), the music of this period is kinda cross over to the first era, but Meddle is very strong for space rock on echoes song. - Third era, progressive rock (Dark side of the moon, wish you were here, animals (my fav album), the wall...till the final cut). This might be called "roger Waters period", he had a very strong influence on the music and Gilmour also influenced on the music as well. This period I call it "progressive" because they did concept albums and their music was very obvious and creative. - Fourth era (progressive pop or you can called it easy listening from Floyd), this period starts with thr three of them (the new PF) on Momentary lapse of reason...till The Division Bell. I'm not going to mention the compilation or live or soundtrack albums by PF because those albums were released for other reasons. This period PF still does the quality music, but not that progressive if you compare to their early work, but listening ot "Sorrow" or some songs on Momentary lapse...I can tell it's still prog but not so serious. 4. U2 = For U2, I do not call the mas a progressive rock band, no they are not. If you see it from Boy, October, War till Under a blood red sky albums, U2 is a plain rock band with nice vocals. They start to change their sound since The Unforgettable Fire, The Jushua Tree, Achtung Baby till Zooropa because of the influences fromBrian Eno, Flood (I like his sound, very unique, I can tell this or that album has Flood although I don't see the details on the cover), Danial Lanois or even Steve Lilly white. In my opinion, U2 got better than their early albums for the second change of their sound. BUT one thing, I still can't stand "POP", this album is kinda weak and boring. It's good that U2 tried to change or develope their music, but I just feel it's very boring. I still like U2, and I will go to seee their concert on POPMART tour at the Oakland Stadium on June 18. 5. INXS = Eh....I do not call INXS as a prog band, not anymore. It's just a plain rock band, I have no opinion on them. I saw their concert once, and did not like it. I'm not their fan, sorry about that. 6. The Police/Sting = aha...The Police, no not a prog band, but their music is good, especially the guitar works of Andy Summers, very good, and Copeland'd drumming is good, but I do not like Sting's voice. He has a unique voice, but I just do not like it. Police is good since Outlandos D'Amour, Regatta de Blance, Zenyatta....till synchronicity. I prefor the solo works by Andy Summers better, and some albums by Summers and Robert Fripp, his experimental guitar works are also worth listening. 7. Alan Parsons Project = APP is a prog band with Tales of Mystery & Imagination, I robot until Pyramid, but after that it's just plain rock music. I do not want to mention all soundtracks that Parsons did. 8. The Moody Blues = Hmm. This band is prog in terms of soft prog, such as Supertramp, Kansas or Saga. In my humble opinion, I do not like The Moody Nlues's music because it's too slow and I get bored sometimes. Just my opinion. And yes, none of these bands should be called progressive metal. Regards, AE ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 22:27:02 +0100 (MET) From: Peter Geerts To: email_address_removed Subject: Prog vs. sympho Message-ID: Ok, 'KorgX3' wrote somtehing about Pink Floyd beingSymphonic Rock and not Progressive. Just to clear things up: what's the difference? I live in Belgium and we have just one word which is, translated, 'symphonic Rock'. When i set foot on the internet, I found that most english-speakers use the word 'progressive' instead, so i thought that the two meant the same. So could someone PLEASE explain me the difference (KorgX3, you didn't make yourself clear on that one, I'm afraid... Peter ----------------------------------------------- email_address_removed.ac.be email_address_removed.ac.be Mathematics student at the university of Leuven ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:05:15 -0500 From: "Carlo D'Angelo" To: Ytsejam Subject: King Diamond.... Message-ID: > Yesterday, March 22nd, I saw King Diamond and Mercyful Fate in concert. It was > an amazing night, complete with interview and signing session, the works. WHAT!?!?? I had no idea they would attempt a show like this due the strain on his voice. Can you PLEASE tell us more about the show setlists etc... I hope he played lots of "Abigail" and "Them" material because his latest "The Graveyard" is so boring and simple compared to the grace and complexity of his older stuff. Andy LaRoque's solos on those are just so fluid and beautiful..AHHH. I miss that sound. Please let me know how the concert was because the states will probably NEVER see a show like this. Also, did anyone else besides me go absolutely ape-shit when they saw that post about FATES WARNING headlining a European show with ELEGY and CONCEPTION....shitfuckshitfuckshitfuckshitfuck..I'm moving to Germany tomorrow! cheers, Carlo -- _ __| |__ "When you know that your time is close at hand |__ __| maybe then you'll begin to understand | | Life down here is just a strange illusion." | | |_| --IRON MAIDEN (Hallowed Be Thy Name) "Neo-classical, progressive, melodic metal" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 18:03:00 -0500 From: Carlos Alfaro To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: _what_ is progressive rock? Message-ID: Syrinx wrote: > > since there's all this talk about "what is prog" i thought some of you > might appreciate this. > > >How exactly do you define progressive rock? > 9. Rolling Stone and Phil Collins would both rather burn alive than hear > this group's latest album. > i found that las bit (phil collins) kinda funny...since isnt genesis considered prog? "At the edge of chaos, unexpected outcomes occur. The risk to survival is severe." Ian Malcolm http://premium.caribe.net/~calfaro mailto:email_address_removed mailto:email_address_removed ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:18:52 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Kube To: email_address_removed Subject: The fix boot controversy. Message-ID: I have to state my opinion on the fix tape controversy. I have looked back over my past jams and have read all of the opinions dealing with the fix boots. I read (in song form) that skadz said that there was to be no fix boot trading on the jam. Why? I never actually saw his post stating as such. If you have the post, please send it to me. I really am interested in reading it. I am the guy who is interested in putting the fix boot on disk for distribution to friends and fellow ytsejammers for the cost of manufacture and cost of remaster and postage. It is not against the law to possess bootlegs. It is however, illegal to sell bootlegs. I have no such plan, my ambition is not to make a quick buck, but to offer a "fix" for the LONG awaited album. I DO NOT plan on making a mass distribution of the fix boot. I do plan on doing exactly what I stated above. I am not some idiot who wants to piss off all of the people on the jam. I am however, someone who wants to give you a great copy of a great concert with great new music (new music that you will get on the new album if it ever comes out.) They should call the new album "Await" or "Awaited". If you catch my drift. Please respect my opinion. It will be a great CD (at hopefully) a great price. Skadz, no disrespect. Good day, J ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:24:19 -0500 (EST) From: Steve Zebrowski To: email_address_removed Subject: Prog quiz Message-ID: > Of the following groups, explain why/not each should be listed as > progressive music. Oh, that's easy... > 1. Camel No, because they have a stupid name. > 2. Tangerine Dream (specify year and members) No, because they have a stupid name. > 3. Pink Floyd (specify line-up and era) No, because I can't listen for more that 30 seconds without falling asleep. > 4. U2 No, because they suck. Listen to Discotheque. > 5. INXS No, because they suck. Listen to anything of theirs. > 6. The Police/Sting Yes, because I said so. > 7. Alan Parsons Project Who? > 8. The Moody Blues No. see Pink Floyd. > (Anything to kill the Fix-or-DT (delirium tremens) discussions!) Ain't that the truth... > character represented in the lyrics. I've always love PF because of > the way they can capture a feeling in their music. Gilmour may not > be the most proficient guitar player out there, but personally I > think he is the most emotive. Enh. I get tired of hearing people rave about Gilmour. Yes, he always solos to suit the song, but I have never heard anything terribly emotive in his playing. How can playing slowly be so emotive when it is the upper limit of your technique? The truly emotive player should be able to play slowly then push it over the edge with some all-out shred. I am not, however, a fan of playing slowly for the sake of playing slowly, just as Yngwie always says, "I would never play something fast JUST for the sake of playing it fast." Say some floyd music called for a rippin', shreddin' solo. They're SOL. I don't know how many times I have to say this, but SLOW does not = EMOTIVE. Steve Z ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:33:10 -0500 From: email_address_removed (Jeff Keifling) To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2381 Message-ID: >Of the following groups, explain why/not each should be listed as >progressive music. >1. Camel Rule #1...No groups named after cigarettes. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:42:08 -0500 From: email_address_removed (Jeff Keifling) To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2381 Message-ID: >I noticed that, remarkably, that my right wrist had almost completely stopped >aching. I could flex it again. > A miracle? This happened to me about a month ago. (No, not meeting King Diamond) but a sprained / strained wrist that hurt so bad I couldn't turn a doorknob. It just went away after awhile. Not sure what or why. What's up with KD's occult background? Is there devils in my stereo speakers when I play "The Eye"? J.Keifling ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 18:22:57 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Jones To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Indoor beach party Message-ID: Any other MA jammers going to the WAAF Indoor beach party on friday? Just wondering. Korn's playing. BJ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 18:26:48 -0500 (EST) From: The Digital Man To: "Ytse Fuckin' Jam" Subject: One hell of a spring break Message-ID: Hey, folks. I just got back to Vermont after a really cool spring break, and I thought I'd let you all know just how nifty it was. First of all, last Saturday, Syrinx and I went to see Finneus Gauge in Baltimore. Good Ged, these guys smoke. Truly outstanding. FG has just about every quality I like about Echolyn and more. The lyrics, from what I can tell, are quite different. In my own less-than-enlightened opinion, it seems that FG's lyrics are far more based on real life experiences than echolyn's were. Echolyn seemed a bit more... I don't know, literary to me. FG's far more down to earth. Not better, not worse, just different. Musically, they kick ass. One of the tightest bands I've ever seen live. And they do some crazy shit. Time changes to leave you dizzy. Every member of the band shines as a unit as well as part of the whole. FG will be dangerous. They promise that they'll be done recording soon - when they are, go get it. If you liked echolyn, you'll love FG. OK, second order of business: Heather, Rachel, and the rest of the LI crew: I'm sorry I never got in touch with anyone while I was home. I lost all the phone numbers I had (damned washing machine is so efficient!), and Mom's modem and answering machine were both out of commission all week. :( We'll have to try getting together again sometime soon. Next topic: You'll all be pleased to know that I have been accepted at my school of choice for a Ph.D. program. I'm about 90% sure at this point that come September, I'll be attending the College of William and Mary in Williamsburg, VA. You crazy jammers in the area get in touch with me. I heard Angra in Syrinx's car. First impression: They're very good at what they do, but Dream Theater's better at it. I also heard my first taste of Anglagard. These guys are good. I can't say more, cause I didn't listen to much, but I plan on buying some soon. I'm slowly catching up on the 35 jams I didn't read this week. Looks like fun so far. Do these flame wars go on all week, or should I bother to finish reading? Damn, it's cold out up here. Can't wait to get to Virginia. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ Secretary & Webmaster email_address_removed "@'/ ,. \`@" UVM Comp Sci Student Assn email_address_removed /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.emba.uvm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" - Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Maintainer of the Official Dream Theater Frequently Asked Questions List http://www.emba.uvm.edu/~cmerlo/dtfaq.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:38:53 -0600 (CST) From: email_address_removed To: email_address_removed Subject: a couple thingz Message-ID: Hi all! Just thought I'd address two issues (as if anyone really cared for my opinion). On the topic of Iron Maiden: I'm one of those who feels that Maiden went down hill after Adrian left - there's a couple tunes on each of their last 3 studio albums that are okay, but to me, it sounds like Steve is running out of ideas for writing songs. It seems like a lot of the new stuff is rehashed from the last album and/or has the same format: cool mellow opening (lasting 30 seconds to 1 minute) - then it kicks into a heavy generic song that is not happening. To me, the key is for Harris to enhance his songwriting skills - perhaps get someone like Peter Collins to produce and to help out with their sound *and* their songwriting. Am I the only one who feels this way?? I think Andre Matos would've been a great asset to IM especially with his song writing ability. And for those who say that Harris only wanted a British singer, is it not true that James LaBrie was approached about singing for Maiden? One other thing about Maiden - I just got the Best of the Beast 2 CD set and the Virus CD single - both having ultra old Maiden recordings (Soundhouse Tapes, Metal for Muthas) - are there any other really old Maiden tracks floating around? Was any sort of best of released for them in the UK (perhaps a 4CD set since I know they're still popular over there)? On the topic of great gigs: Besides the obvious Rush, DT and QR gigs, one other one that blow my mind is the last Extreme show that was played in Milwaukee - it had a lot of energy, they played a couple songs off of the first album *and* their new drummer was absolutely phenominal. The best of the three Extreme shows I've seen (and mind you, I don't like Waiting for the Punchline). Funny fact - I saw Extreme open for Cinderella and...David Lee Roth back in '91 - kinda ironic, huh (BTW, Extreme blew away both Cinderella and DLR at that show)? >Ben Laussade isn't wearing any pants. No wonder - the guy lives in Vegas!! :P Scott Hansen email_address_removed ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 18:24:45 -0500 (EST) From: Syrinx To: Carlos Alfaro Subject: Re: _what_ is progressive rock? Message-ID: > > since there's all this talk about "what is prog" i thought some of you > > might appreciate this. > > > > >How exactly do you define progressive rock? > > > 9. Rolling Stone and Phil Collins would both rather burn alive than hear > > this group's latest album. > > > > i found that las bit (phil collins) kinda funny...since isnt genesis > considered prog? that was the point, there mortimer. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- "..666 is no longer alone. he's getting out the marrow in your backbone, and the seven trumpets blowing sweet rock and roll gonna blow right down inside your soul. pythagoras with the looking-glass, reflect the full moon. in blood, he's writing the lyrics to a brand new tune.." * * * * * * * * * * mike ostrich e-mail: email_address_removed / email_address_removed erotomania: http://www.mindspring.com/~syrinx/ offical lemur voice homepage: http://www.mindspring.com/~syrinx/lemur-lemur-main.htm (c) 1997 Happy Fun Ball, Inc. All Rights Reserved. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 18:32:42 -0700 From: Michael Kizer To: email_address_removed Subject: Interesting commentary Message-ID: Hey gang, here's an interesting editorial I found in Canadian Musician magazine (Thanks, Maria!). I think it rather nicely sums up the state of the music industry today... Here you go: FROM THE EDITOR: SILENCE IS NOT GOLDEN Getting a major label record deal is not only a daunting prospect for up-and-coming artists today, it's become increasingly tough for established acts and well-respected musicians as well. In the past few years, in both Canada and the U.S., there's been a lot of 'housecleaning' within the majors (I personally hate this industry term - it only serves to further humiliate the artists who suddenly get 'dropped' from their labels), leaving many artists, including those known and respected the world over, without a home. Although we're seeing many artists take matters into their own hands and release their recordings independently, not every musician wants (or can handle) the extra workload. Particularly hard-hit are solo instrumental artists, including many literally revered among their peers and those who aspire to follow in their footsteps. Among the many talented musicians I've had the pleasure of knowing, the examples abound: well-known North American artists whose recordings are now only available as Japanese imports - absent from the record store shelves in their own countries and available only through mail order; artists whose only option is to sign with a foreign-based label or go it alone; artists who admit their creativity as a musician is often compromised by the necessity of self-promotion, self-distribution, running a label or what have you; and, perhaps most disappointing, the decrease in available radio programming which would serve to promote these artists to the public. Just how much specialty programming is going to suffer for yet another 'Classic Hits" show? I'm afraid to even guess ... Who loses here? We all do, because there's something about this industry and how it works that has never been entirely fair to the artists it's supposed to support - and it can all be reduced to dollar figures. Musical virtuosity, musical genius, creative exploration and respect for musical traditions will never be reflected in record sales; and those musicians whose music strives to meet these lofty ideals of good taste must take a back seat to the 'flavour of the week'. As musicians, what we listen to and derive our inspiration from often falls outside of the current trend, or what radio and record companies deem commercially-viable mainstream material. Our sources of information are more specialized. We're not afraid to dig to find the diamonds, and we have the benefit of something that most of the general listening public has not - a network of like-minded musicians who share their musical discoveries with us, turning us on to music and musicians we might otherwise never find out about. In the realm of the musician, word-of-mouth - not chart position or a barrage of record company promotion - determines what's worth checking out. We are an elitist segment of society, because for us, music provides much more than just entertainment - it educates us and plants the seeds of inspiration which force us to react by creating music of our own. It is our livelihood, our vocation, our passion. It affects us differently, and on many more levels, than the average music consumer. Having said all this, my appeal to you this issue, dear reader, is a simple one: As often as is possible, make others aware of a musician you enjoy who is somewhat 'obscure'. If even one of them is prompted to go out and purchase that artist's music, you have given two people a great gift - and I think that honouring a favourite musician with a new fan is the most generous and noble way you could thank them for making the music you love to listen to. I thank my lucky stars for an old friend, J.H., who, when I was in my mid-teens, turned me on to Steve Morse, Frank Gambole and Albert Lee; or J.R., who introduced me to the music of Pat Metheny - and although these artists may not be your cup of tea, I cannot imagine a life without them. Record sales propel this industry, but the big money eludes the majority of musicians. Most of us will never have success on the scale of the Rolling Stones or Michael Jackson - heck, most of us may never have a gold record! If you stop for a minute to wonder how many of us abandoned musical careers for a and reasonable income, you'll see why we all need to spread the word in help each other survive. Silence is not golden when it comes to music. Peace, Shauna Kennedy, Managing Editor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So go forth and spread the word about all of the great and obscure musicians that we often discuss on the Jam... ~Mike ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 2382 **************************